Apple introduces a new Pencil for the iPad... it's $79. No pressure sensitivity.

[Avaviel]

Do they need to make new innovations yearly to be relevant? Or, instead, can their excellent hardware and software suffice?

I say this as someone who's firmly on the windows side typically.

Now if only their marketing department/ malicious compliance departments could be shuttered...

[Senzelian]

47 minutes ago, Avaviel said:

Do they need to make new innovations yearly to be relevant? Or, instead, can their excellent hardware and software suffice?

I say this as someone who's firmly on the windows side typically.

Now if only their marketing department/ malicious compliance departments could be shuttered...

If you want to continue to be the best, you have to innovate, otherwise others will eventually catch up. Now especially with the release of the iPhone 15 others have finally cought up.

[Dracarris]

4 hours ago, Senzelian said:

Oh boy...  Don't worry, your favorite company is still No. 1. I won't take them away from you  

oh quite the contrary.. there will always be plenty recipients for lame slapstick jokes that target your favorite Californian Hatebrand.

2 hours ago, Senzelian said:

If you want to continue to be the best, you have to innovate, otherwise others will eventually catch up. Now especially with the release of the iPhone 15 others have finally cought up.

Right. Finally there are Qualcomm SoCs that are faster and more energy efficient than Apples SoCs. Finally there are feature-comparable Android phones that get higher battery life per Wh. Finally the best smartphone videos are not made with iphones anymore.

[Biohazard777]

26 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

oh quite the contrary.. there will always be plenty recipients for lame slapstick jokes that target your favorite Californian Hatebrand.

And why do you think that is?

[Kisai]

13 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

So this is cheaper than the 1st gen and 2nd gen, has the new interface (USB-C), but less features. Yeah I'm not seeing the problem. This isn't a replacement for the 2nd Gen, it's a new "lower entry" SKU for people who don't want to spend as much on the 2nd Gen.

 

As noted already, there are 3rd party options if people don't want to pay the Apple Tax, which is a known factor. I assume the 2nd Gen Pencil will get an update at some point with USB-C (though at that point they might simply call it the 3rd Gen).

Maybe people need some context.

 

"pressure sensitivity" is a feature used ONLY by art applications. It's often the defining reason why you would spend $3000 on a massive Cintiq monitor. If you are not actually doing art, then the pressure sensitivity is effectively unused.

 

I know one artist on twitch that uses the ipad exclusively for doing her art, and of course, needs the pressure sensitive stylus.

 

Basically it's used primarily for pencil/pen/paintbrush variable opacity/line-weight and doesn't really have any other use outside of an art program. CAD programs need a stylus, but don't need line weight for example. 

 

There is another use, in games, where a stylus might be used for (OSU is a rhythm game that works best with a stylus, and can in fact be used that way on PC versions. One chinese tablet manufacturer even sells a tablet for just that game.) 

 

I can also see a stylus being useful for sheet music writing, since it's completely unintuitive to use a mouse on a desktop to do this, and likewise using your fingers on a tablet is too inaccurate. So perhaps this stylus is meant more for that scenario where you need something more precise than your fingers, but not actually doing art.

 

Either way. The Apple Pencil 2, has NO physical charging ability, it has to be attached to the iPad magnetically. This "USB-C" model requires being plugged in to USB-C to charge. The First gen pencil comes with a lightning connector and a USB-C adapter.

 

I'd actually expect Apple to come out with an Apple Pencil 3 at some point that is exactly the same as the Apple Pencil 2, but adds a AirTag tracking support to it so you don't lose the thing.

 

As for why it would lose the pressure sensitivity and wireless charging, look no further than the previous two pencil tear down images, 1/4rd of the pencil is just the pressure sensitive section and 1/4 is just the wireless charging. So it likely has to lose the wireless charging because that's where the usb electronics have to fit, while the pressure sensitive part. Perhaps this pencil is lighter.

 

[WolframaticAlpha]

6 hours ago, Dracarris said:

oh quite the contrary.. there will always be plenty recipients for lame slapstick jokes

>Defends apple in every thread critical of apple

>Can't take a joke

>Pedantic about clear hyperbole

>Calls everyone else a jerk apple hater.

 

Maybe, just maybe, instead of the rest of the world being irrational apple haters, you happen to be an irrational apple fan?

 

38 minutes ago, Kisai said:

As for why it would lose the pressure sensitivity and wireless charging, look no further than the previous two pencil tear down images, 1/4rd of the pencil is just the pressure sensitive section and 1/4 is just the wireless charging. So it likely has to lose the wireless charging because that's where the usb electronics have to fit, while the pressure sensitive part. Perhaps this pencil is lighter.

The issue is really the pricing. Apple pencil 2 typically retails for 99 bucks and is superior in every way. For just 20 bucks, considering it won't go on sale for some time, it just seems weird why anyone would want to buy this, because wireless charging changes the way you use the entire thing. Considering you can really just pick up good knockoffs that fo most of the same stuff as this for people who take notes(see below), buying this one leaves a small market.

 

I do agree with the point about schematics and pressure sensitivity. I don't use my pencil for things other than notes and from what I see you most people use the apple pencil for notes and annotations

 

Also I personally can't wait the pencil 1 to die fast enough.

[Dracarris]

1 hour ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

>Defends apple in every thread critical of apple

Which would be every thread about Apple here, and if you think I'm defending, then you need to re-read my posts. Rectifying wrong statements and BS myths is not exactly defending.

1 hour ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

>Can't take a joke

What "joke"? The same lame-ass jokes repeated for the millionst time that try to derail every discussion? Oh dear, so funny honhonhon.

1 hour ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

>Pedantic about clear hyperbole

People actually mean that, they actually think iphones are made for 30$ in China and have no effing clue about even the ballpark of actual cost.

1 hour ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

>Calls everyone else a jerk apple hater.

 

Maybe, just maybe, instead of the rest of the world being irrational apple haters, you happen to be an irrational apple fan?

Yeah again, maybe re-read. I basically agree with Linus Linus' standing. Call them out when they do stupid things and praise them when they release good products. And the former is done in a vast abundance in this forum (mostly by the same rather small group of highly active users, though).

7 hours ago, Biohazard777 said:

And why do you think that is?

Easy. Because people love an entity to direct their hate at and make fun of, even though they never even tried to use one of their products and categorically deny to use them.

[LAwLz]

6 hours ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

>Defends apple in every thread critical of apple

>Can't take a joke

>Pedantic about clear hyperbole

>Calls everyone else a jerk apple hater.

 

Maybe, just maybe, instead of the rest of the world being irrational apple haters, you happen to be an irrational apple fan?

I wouldn't consider myself an apple fanboy but I also find the constant cheap shots and hyperbole "jokes" about Apple to be kind of tiring. Especially since I think a lot of people actually believe the statements to be true. Its not like the person who first said the 3 dollar thing backed down and said "I was just joking", they tried to prove their point and failed kind of miserably, ending up with "you can buy a generic no-name knockoff for 20 dollars" when the original claim was 3 dollars. 

 

The more likely explanation is that they didn't look into which features this stylus had and therefore compared it to the wrong thing. 

 

 

6 hours ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

The issue is really the pricing. Apple pencil 2 typically retails for 99 bucks and is superior in every way.

That's only if you compare the Pensil 2 while on sale VS this at full retail price. The retail price of the Pensil 2,when not on sale should be, according to Apple, 130 dollars. 

Of course a device that costs close to twice a much will be better. 

 

I don't see any issue with offering a cheaper alternative with fewer features. 

[leadeater]

5 hours ago, Kisai said:

I'd actually expect Apple to come out with an Apple Pencil 3 at some point that is exactly the same as the Apple Pencil 2, but adds a AirTag tracking support to it so you don't lose the thing.

AirTag in it would be awesome.

 

5 hours ago, Kisai said:

I can also see a stylus being useful for sheet music writing, since it's completely unintuitive to use a mouse on a desktop to do this, and likewise using your fingers on a tablet is too inaccurate. So perhaps this stylus is meant more for that scenario where you need something more precise than your fingers, but not actually doing art.

Agree with all the other stuff you said, however all our arts courses use Wacom tablets and Stylus with their Macs. Although I assume they have some iPads and Apple Stylus but that isn't actually what they use the majority of the time.

 

I suspect Apple is finding that their Stylus is needlessly expensive and feature rich when those extra features also mean a lot, maybe most, who need it go to the likes of Wacom anyway 

[Avaviel]

The Apple wars have begun anew they have.

I know about art: Master's of Art, Bachelors of Fine Arts. I've never done digital art before, I paint primarily with watercolors. I bought an iPad Pro, and the Apple Pencil 2.  It's... great. Enjoyable. I wish I would have gotten the 1TB so I could have 16GB of ram and more layers though. I'd suggest the iPad to people over Wacom and a PC for the lower price point of entry vs the quality you get. UNTIL THEY DONE F'D UP THEIR PRODUCT LINE.

(I need to figure out printing next. I'd like to print on watercolor paper, 24" wide. It isn't really art until it is physically displayed.)

[Senzelian]

18 hours ago, Dracarris said:

Right. Finally there are Qualcomm SoCs that are faster and more energy efficient than Apples SoCs. Finally there are feature-comparable Android phones that get higher battery life per Wh. Finally the best smartphone videos are not made with iphones anymore.

You're not up to date.

[WolframaticAlpha]

12 hours ago, LAwLz said:

That's only if you compare the Pensil 2 while on sale VS this at full retail price

Which I mentioned later. This is a new product. It will obviously take more time to go down in price. Even when accounting for a deflation in price, you are still paying about 2x for what is a very similar feature set to knockoffs. 

 

Not saying this is "THE END OF THE PENCIL", but it does lead to more confusion. I've had friends and family buy the pencil 1 or 2 for the wrong ipad and this one just makes things worse. (People don't really know the differences between the two and pick whichever they found cheaper)

12 hours ago, LAwLz said:

hyperbole "jokes" about Apple to be kind of tiring. Especially since I think a lot of people actually believe the statements to be true. Its not like the person who first said the 3 dollar thing backed down and said "I was just

Eh, I'd expect everyone here to baseline realise that 3 bucks is obvious hyperbole. 

12 hours ago, LAwLz said:

don't see any issue with offering a cheaper alternative with fewer features. 

Muddles up things too much in my opinion. Just have 1-2 products with clear demarcations. This lineup is 100% going to lead to fuckups(already seen them with the simpelr one today).

 

12 hours ago, Dracarris said:

People actually mean that, they actually think iphones are made for 30$ in

Hmm, are people dumb enough to think that or is it a few rotten apples?

12 hours ago, Dracarris said:

Which would be every thread about Apple her

(Tbf almost every company (except amd i think) here gets shit upon) 

 

I'd like to apologize to you a bit though. I think I was being a bit too harsh.

[Dracarris]

2 hours ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

Hmm, are people dumb enough to think that or is it a few rotten apples?

I've heard it from enough people that I was inclined to think a seizable amount actually thinks like that.. tbh, I was also surprise that it costs Apple around 500$ to manufacture a bloody phone, and that application processor and modem together already make up for more than 100$. At least that's what the most trustable sources/analysts estimate.

2 hours ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

I'd like to apologize to you a bit though. I think I was being a bit too harsh.

That's so nice of you I should really try to ignore more of the posts in question.

[Dracarris]

4 hours ago, Senzelian said:

You're not up to date.

You're free to enlighten me. Last time I checked A16 and A17 remain the fastest and most energy efficient mobile SoCs, and according to the majority of reviews among mobile phones (Pro) iphones remain the leader when it comes to video quality. Close contender for the top regarding still images.

[Kisai]

1 hour ago, Dracarris said:

I've heard it from enough people that I was inclined to think a seizable amount actually thinks like that.. tbh, I was also surprise that it costs Apple around 500$ to manufacture a bloody phone, and that application processor and modem together already make up for more than 100$. At least that's what the most trustable sources/analysts estimate.

 

 

"BOM" quotes are often just guesses. Bill of materials are always approximated by comparing it to other devices containing the same parts, or known part costs.

 

Even under the most ideal circumstances, you aren't going to get $30 as the cost to build any electronic device that contains a screen. Like look at the rPi devices, these things are sold practically at cost, and yet

https://www.pishop.ca/product/raspberry-pi-400-complete-kit/?src=raspberrypi

$137 CAD (about $99.99 USD), and it does NOT come with a screen. Adding the screen adds $60.

 

Now consider that the A16/A17Pro/M2 etc are massive SoC chips that are more powerful than Intel's current generation i7 Mobile parts, and the DESKTOP equivalent of those are around $400.

 

Like even if someone was being explicitly obtuse, you can't say the BOM for a flagship smartphone or ipad is less than $500USD. 

 

At any rate Apple rightly gets skewered for certain things. RAM upgrades, Disk upgrades, even though the parts they use are often WORSE than what you'd get in a Dell and the upgrade costs of a Dell are less.  The worst thing that Apple sells are the Mac Pro wheels which are nearly $850, when the casters for furniture, made of plastic are $15. Like what the bloody hell are these wheels made of that justifies $850.

 

[Avaviel]

5 minutes ago, Kisai said:

 

 

 

 

You have me imagining some person 3d printing a 'cell phone' that's a lead acid battery, desktop motherboard, processor, and integrated graphics for 'weight savings'.

[Dracarris]

37 minutes ago, Kisai said:

"BOM" quotes are often just guesses. Bill of materials are always approximated by comparing it to other devices containing the same parts, or known part costs.

Techinsight doesn't do exactly plain BoM guesses. They apparently do have quite some sources (which they do not disclose) and also do a fair bit of analysis of manufactured devices. Most of their reports must be bought for good money (quote only, price probably depends on who's asking) and somehow they survived for all these years, so their information can't really be worthless..

 

The rest I agree.

[dalekphalm]

19 hours ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

Which I mentioned later. This is a new product. It will obviously take more time to go down in price. Even when accounting for a deflation in price, you are still paying about 2x for what is a very similar feature set to knockoffs. 

And? This is not something unique to Apple. Almost any product that has a knockoff available, the knockoff is almost always significantly cheaper.

19 hours ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

Not saying this is "THE END OF THE PENCIL", but it does lead to more confusion. I've had friends and family buy the pencil 1 or 2 for the wrong ipad and this one just makes things worse. (People don't really know the differences between the two and pick whichever they found cheaper)

I don't know, that seems like a user issue to me. I looked on the Apple website, and the Pencil Selector is very clear about what features each Pencil supports, along with which devices it's compatible with. I'm not sure how they could make it more clear (better naming is always something Apple could do better on, but even here, each of the 3 pencils has a distinct name).

 

If people are buying the cheaper one and not doing research or bothering to look at the product page and which device it's compatible with, there's not much you can do for that user.

19 hours ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

Eh, I'd expect everyone here to baseline realise that 3 bucks is obvious hyperbole. 

No way. That person seemed pretty serious. And let's be honest, people say things that are silly or obviously not true all the time here on the forums, and sometimes they 100% are serious about it. I will never make an assumption about whether another user is spouting hyerbole or being serious because there is no way for me to know unless they outright say.

 

And when pushed, that user kept coming back with more and more expensive options, so $3 quickly became $15, etc.

19 hours ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

Muddles up things too much in my opinion. Just have 1-2 products with clear demarcations. This lineup is 100% going to lead to fuckups(already seen them with the simpelr one today).

Honestly, the separation is pretty clear, and I personally suspect the Apple 1st Gen Pencil will be retired soon, with the 2 options being the Wireless 2nd Gen or the non-wireless USB-C version.