More than 4 years of Android updates for the Google Pixel 8!

[Donut417]

34 minutes ago, E-waste said:

Excluding entirely all security concerns, is there any program you used which required an updated android version that your device was unable officially to obtian?

All my Android devices I have ever owned had issues around the two year mark. Had issues with performance and crashing. But when it comes to online banking and accessing my credit report and using my authentication app I want my OS updated and know that any security issues have been taking care of.

 

Flashing roms on phones is something Im not going to do. Because I just want a device that keep working. Which is why iPhones are in my opinion the better device. If you like the tinker and stuff Android will likely suit your needs. At least that was my experience when using Android.

[E-waste]

3 hours ago, Donut417 said:

At least that was my experience when using Android.

I think your experience is mostly app related.  I have had my device for over six years now, and have not had issues with performance.  Did your device ever reboot itself or was it only specific to a particular app?  Bugs happen, but I haven't yet experienced an app I have had major issues with.  I am stuck on Android 8, with an arbitrary lock on my bootloader with not enough understanding of how to bypass the lock.  Maybe not having updates actually improves the user experience due to not being able to introduce new bugs.

 

Do you mind disclosing what device you used?  What apps gave issues after multiple updates were applied?

 

I think you contradict yourself, although I understand completely, you say you want a device that keeps working, with security patches, but this is currently 100% impossible.  Some hardware level CVE will never be patched by official support and probably cannot be patched with community support without access to secret source code.

 

iPhone software and features is vastly superior to anything ever released on Android.  Can you use the website for your bank instead of an app?  Apps are a bit of a vendor lockin, whereas a website is somewhat (not really any more with scripts) open-source, but is accessible on any web browser and there are three main web rendering engines to pick from:

 

Google blink

 

Firefox Gecko / Quantum

 

Safari webkit

 

So if web developers keep supporting safari (thankfully still 24% of the mobile browser market) and firefox (less than 0.5% mobile use and a low 6.7% on desktop) then we still have a choice in how websites will be viewed and the extensions we can use.

 

I don't see mobile security as an important sector of society and the people developing mobile malware, with at least some development experience, would be better off breaking the software locks on bootloaders for android.  What would be amazing, is if the developers of the jailbreaks for apple devices put forth the same effort to break the locks of bootloader keys on android, we could build LineageOS for whatever device we wanted and get everyone on the same system when their official support stops.

 

Wow!  Could you imagine the reduction in electronic waste?  For the people that aren't so picky about camera quality and all that, are cameras not good enough in this year to just use that?  If everyone who wanted a new phone would pick a device (no matter the release date) and keep it, there is basically no logical reason to upgrade, none.

 

If a camera from this year on a smartphone cannot satisfy you for 20 years in terms of camera quality, then I don't think anything ever will.  Sure, there may be incredibly minor improvements, but unless the images are hundreds of megabytes, then it will all be downscaled and compressed anyway, so what is there to possibly gain?

 

At what point will a smartphone owner be content with camera quality?  If the answer is that improvements will always be chosen, then why not consider the fairphone?  I understand Android software is horrendously far behind in terms of features, privacy, security and quality, but it is currently the only device in existance with a swappable camera module.  Until a massive portion of smartphone owners choose fairphone over apple or any other android brand, change will not happen.

 

Then the question then becomes, do smartphone owners even want the system to change?  Is there not enough demand to warrant change at all?

 

Are you all 100% satisfied to upgrade your device every five or six years because only specific parts like a new camera are unobtainable without buying a new device?  iFixit details apple's part serialization, and even if physically possible, the software on the devices do not allow swapping parts (all apple parts at that) between devices.

 

Until this is pressure, and I guess my thoughts will for the fpreseeable future be less than 0.001% (1 in 100,000) or probably far less, because nobody cares about electronic waste.  No, it has not been the fault of consumers, although it has powered the issue and 100% supported it, companies should always be the ones solving the issues created by themselves.  Without any serious pressure, we are stuck with this unsustainable cycle.

 

If all android users started using fairphone in a massive collective shift, and, asked fairphone to make all camera upgrades swappable between any and every released device by the company, we could all get the camera upgrades we all desparately crave, but keep our devices.

 

Let's not install bank or similar apps on our devices, and not be so cautious when it comes to device security.  Let's demand a device operating system that allows custom full-storage or root filesystem backup, or maybe even immutable root filesystems where malware is not currently able to modify.  Linux already has this and it is used in the steamdeck.

 

Pixel has A / B system upgrades, so while using the running system, the B area is upgraded.  I haven't read much about it, only heard about it in a podcast, ask noah show, Then when the system reboots, somehow it loads the new system, and for a while, keeps the previous image.

 

This could be the beginning of an idea where there is a permanent, immutable backup root system, where malware is ineffective.  Of course, the goalposts annoyingly always move, but for now, it would work incredibly well and would solve some CVE.  Code injection on the running system would still be an issue, but if we all support and demand a better future where forever more we can upgrade the software whenever and however we would like, then anyone could patch the system.

 

We could have custom device software written in open-source and support companies besides Qualcomm to develop cellular modems and chips, since they are refusing to open-source their code and would like to be the sole developers of the software for their chips, I say we figure out if there is any alternative.

 

I bring this up, because my devive has a CVE of some kind in the wifi and I believe cellular too, as it is tied to the same vendor of the chips, and because it is an "obscolete" device, will not see any patches from them.  Because of this, we should search for companies which develop cellular modem chips that allow the owner of the device to patch the software.  I guess it boils down to either:

 

You have a software master like Apple, or Qualcomm or Google or Samsung, and you are literal slaves to their support and you willingly or unknowingly or carelessly give up your device data anf usage actuvity--and how are you repayed for this data which generated hundreds of millions of dollars?

 

You buy a new device every six years.

 

That's how you are valued.

 

Or we become software developers and become the masters of the software we use.  Or, support companies which support open-source spftware and exclusively use it in their hardware.  This is THE only way to ensure the use of our devices without corporate lockout and lack of security fixes.

 

I see the world wide web really getting used around 2000 or so.  So the internet has only been in widespread use for about 20 years.  In that 20 years, how many smartphones have you used?  Smartphones only started in about 2005.

 

Computer hardware is not getting significantly faster, mobile or desktop.  3nm chips, how much smaller can they get?  Batteries have not gotten remarkably better in the last ten years or so, but hardware has gotten more power efficient.  Regarding that efficiency, I think we are about as far as we can go with current designs.  To me, a smartphone from 2013 and 2023 is the same thing, same components, same concept.

 

The only truly notable differences are camera quality and power draw from hardware, not a single thing else.  I'll go as far to say smartphones haven't changed since the blackberry devies from 2006, only touchscreen interface and program support has been added.

 

If we can collectively agree that basically, the ONLY true reason to upgrade a phone, imagining that malware developers have stopped, and decided to do something beneficial for society, is the camera, can we not all agree that a device that would let you upgrade the camera would be the best possible smartphone option?

 

I'm really being serious.  Pick what mobile operating system you like best, and pair that with the modularity of the fairphone, but extended for any fairphone model.  Can we not ever agree that this would be the best future possible for smartphones?

 

And how will we create this future: with pressure to the status quo.  We must support companies that support our values and the future we want.  We must temporarily give up the software quality of iOS as clearly superior is it will forever be compared to Android and suffer through all the nice features missing:

 

Full device backup without modifications or hacks

 

battery management, preventing device power on until 15% and limiting charge to 80%.

 

SOS/GPS mode when out of cellular service

 

Find services from the beginning and Google is STILL playing catchup!

 

GUARENTEED six years of software updates, and some devices, like the iPhone 6 and some others, actually got seven years of updates, Google still has chosen not to compete on this level.

 

Safari not being developed by an advertising business and offering an alternative browser, based originally on open-source software (webkit).

 

Actually truly working privacy features that costs Meta hundreds of millions dollars in revenue, with a single tap of the screen!

 

I'm sure there are more benefits to iOS vs android, but those are what I am knowledgable about.  I still have an android device regardless, but I do appreciate the work that goes into apple's system.

 

So, I am proposing we give up all of those incredible benefits, and possible safety of communication due to the GPS-mode when out of range of cellular, and support fairphone.

 

If we all collectively stary exclusively supporting this company and forcing Apple Google Samsung and all the rest to offer a comparable or better modular parts upgrade system, compatible regardless of device release date, then we might actually get somewhere.

 

In the meantime, enjoy your frustrating reliance on six-year device upgrades, with no changes in sight.

[Donut417]

16 minutes ago, E-waste said:

Do you mind disclosing what device you used?  What apps gave issues after multiple updates were applied?

Last two Android devices were an LG V3 which crashed during the setup process after I did an FDR and the One Plus 3T. To be honest Im not going to remember what apps and such, Ive been using an iPhone for 4 years. I just know that my issues stopped when I switch to Apple. Same goes for my sister, she we notorious for having issues with her phone and always bitching about it. Doesnt happen with the iPhone. 

 

19 minutes ago, E-waste said:

Can you use the website for your bank instead of an app? 

Thats not the point. The reason I use the app is its easier. Same goes for Credit Karma, Paycomm and Chase app for my credit card. 

 

Also you act like Im one of those dumb fucks who upgrades yearly. I dont. Im still using an XR for fuck sake. Due to Apple releasing iOS 17 on it, Ill probably be using it till at least next September when the new iPhone gets released an pick up a 15 on the cheap or get the new latest and greatest. I figure my battery will be dead by then anyway. 

 

The fact is Ive never been satisfied with Android. I didnt like the fact that I got maybe 1 OS update during the life time of the phone. Ive gotten multiple with Apple. I feel that some of the features on Android are not polished. While Im sure that some of the 3rd party OS's have a lot to offer, Im not going thru the trouble of installing roms. At the time of switching the only premium option on Android was like Samsung and I'll never own another Samsung phone ever again, not after the issues I had with the Samsung Moment. 

[LAwLz]

10 hours ago, E-waste said:

But it has an unlocked bootloader and the android community brought it up to Android 11 with LineageOS.  Theoretically, it can continue to be upgraded, but is entirely dependent on the motivation, energy and care of the community.  LineageOS provides instructions on how to build a new version of LineageOS from an existing device, so theoretically there is nothing preventing it from happening.

Yes, but that was not the argument the one I replied to said. He counted official OS releases, and then said that the unlocked bootloader was the "cherry on top".

I understand where you're coming from, but the person I replied to simply overestimated or misremembered how many updates the Fiarphone 2 got.

 

 

10 hours ago, E-waste said:

Either way, many of the apps I use from F-droid only require android 6 at the most so far, and security bugs will not scare me into purchasing a new device.

I don't think that's a very good attitude to have, and certainly not a risk I would want to take myself or recommend anyone else take, but you do you.

If you're satisfied with your phone and okay with the risks then you do you.

 

 

8 hours ago, E-waste said:

Is there ANY android malware in the wild that can overtake the built in recovery / stock system?

It depends on what you mean. The recovery partition is as far as I know only accessible through something like adb, not the OS itself. But I think this is a fairly moot point because the danger isn't to have your recovery partition overwritten. The real risk is to have your OS compromised without knowing. Having an intact recovery system doesn't matter if you end up having for example credentials stolen for things like online accounts, banking, maybe your password database, etc.

 

An intact recovery partition will help recover your hardware if necessary, but it won't stop an attack.

The amount of very serious vulnerabilities in Android that would let an attacker get essentially full control over your entire system are quite many, sadly. There have been 16 code execution exploits discovered in Android this year, and 12 of them have a CVE score of 9,8 which basically means "an attacker can do anything they want, without you knowing, and it's fairly easy to do".

 

 

I guess it depends on what you value most. The information that someone with access to your phone can get, or the hardware itself.

I personally value the information more than the hardware. You seem to be the opposite. Possibly because you don't use your phone for the same things I use mine for, and that's okay.

 

 

8 hours ago, E-waste said:

Google has set up this entire system in a means to force a person to change the hardware to patch the software.  I say this is needless electronic waste and I think the waste FAR outweighs any software or malware issues.  This whole industry has been purposely designed for a revolving upgrade cycle, entirely artificially for monetary greed.

What do you mean by "system to force a person to change the hardware to patch the software"? If you're talking about needing to buy a new phone to get the latest software then that's not something that was designed on purpose, and it's something that Google has been working extremely hard to get rid of. It seems to me like you think it is intentional, but the exact opposite is true, Google and others are spending a great effort trying to go away from that unintentional design.

It's not because of greed that companies like Samsung have been promising and keeping their promise to provide long-term support for OS and security updates. It's not because of greed that all the SoC manufacturers got together to design specifications that allow OS updates to be more decoupled from their BSP. It's not because of greed that Google has made it possible to get more updates (features and security) without needing a full system upgrade.

 

 

I get the impression that you believe some conspiracy theory that is not based in reality, and as a result you are putting the blame for the situation on the companies actively trying to solve the issues.

[E-waste]

9 hours ago, LAwLz said:

actively trying to solve the issues.

The way I see it, Google designed the system.  There were not and still are not any universal tools that work on any android device to unlock any bootloader.

 

To me, that's intentional.

 

How you can say that choice was not intentional?  Google designed the system and every single piece of code for Android, including the bootloader.  It is my belief that they could snap their finger and have their developers release a tool that immediately unlocks any bootloader in existence.

 

But they will not do so.  At least their own line is unlockable, so I can't complain about that, but Google has the power to save every android device with 2-3+ GB of memory and 4G cellular from the landfill, but I don't think we'll see that day.

[LAwLz]

3 hours ago, E-waste said:

Google designed the system and every single piece of code for Android, including the bootloader.

The bootloader that Google designed can be unlocked.

The bootloader other OEMs design and implement on their phones may or may not be unlockable.

 

Do you not understand how Android is developed? 

 

 

I also think you overvalue unlocked bootloaders. For you and people like you, an unlocked bootloader might extend the life of your phone. For most people however, it won't My mom won't unlock the bootloader and install a third-party ROM for example, even if she had the chance. Neither will 90% of the people I know. Hell, not even I would do it because I feel like phone these days are supported long enough that I think the hardware starts being lacking around the same time the software support ends. And I am not talking about just batteries either. I am talking cameras, screen, processor, and so on. 

You might not agree, but that is probably because our use cases are different.

[E-waste]

3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

The bootloader that Google designed can be unlocked.

The bootloader other OEMs design and implement on their phones may or may not be unlockable.

You got me there!  Freedom of development or free will is great, until we use it to harm one another.  I bet a HUGE majority of android brands would quickly leave the market permanently if Google forced all bootloaders to be unlockable to be able to use Android software.

 

Is that going too far?

 

Can we all just support Fairphone, who plan (surprisingly) to support the 5 for eight, possibly ten years?  How's that for software support, where is the community excitement for that!  But we make a post about a company offering four years of updates, to me, that's a joke by now.

 

Apple has been releasing the iPhone for 13+ years, and every single one of them have always had six, sometimes even SEVEN years of software and security updates.  But we get excited about four?  Are we just gullible?

 

Why not support the companies that are actually making a real attempt at competing on software longevity and reducing ewaste?  I'd like to see more of that in this and all other tech enthusiast communities.

 

I can't stop wondering what you refer to regarding performance?  In 1,440 days, what about the device performance is so intolerable, that you deem it necessary to purchase a new device to compensate?

 

I few a few questions a maybe 100 more, but I would like to know:

 

Do apps get slower over time as you update them?

 

If so, would you provide a list of these apps, and at what year mark did you without thinking about it at the time, immediately notice intolerable performance?

 

The hardware is not getting slower, this has so far never happened in computer hardware, and the only thing that can change the perceived performance of a system is software.  So, maybe we can figure this out, and figure out whst software is the culprit.

 

Finally, have you ever used Firefox on mobile or Fennec, or any software from F-droid?  Did it too slow down over time?  If you have not used F-droid would you mind installing a program that you would use, and check its performance over time?

 

Would you be willing to use a timer to check current and future app startup times?

[Donut417]

6 hours ago, E-waste said:

o me, that's intentional.

No shit. You do know what a business is suppose to do right? Its sole purpose is to make money. If they force you to buy a new product at certain internals then they make money.

 

That is why when people talk about the lack of right to repair in the US and the lack of consumer protections. Its all because over half our economy is based on consumption. If people are not buying shit, then it hurts the over all economy. For the past  2 years they have been saying a recession is coming. But it doesn't show up, at least not in the whole economy, this is because spending was still high, so that kept a full blown recession at bay.

[E-waste]

1 hour ago, Donut417 said:

If people are not buying shit, then it hurts the over all economy. For the past  2 years they have been saying a recession is coming. But it doesn't show up, at least not in the whole economy, this is because spending was still high

There's so much local business we could be supporting, from something as basic as natural oil soaps, to non-synthetic, bio-degradable bed sheets that don't shed polyester micro-plastics, to just about or all of our clothes, and footwear, and also 100% of our food could all be purchased locally to support the local economy which also in turn supports us.

 

We could all grow our own vegetables or purchase from a local farm for our meat nutrition, only buy fruits in season, and support beneficial businesses who protect our health, vs businesses who want to sell us a communication device that is un-patchable and not able to use current software in two years.

[Donut417]

2 minutes ago, E-waste said:

There's so much local business we could be supporting, from something as basic as natural oil soaps, to non-synthetic, bio-degradable bed sheets that don't shed polyester micro-plastics, to just about or not all of our clothes, and also 100% of our food could all be purchased locally to support the local economy which also in turn supports us.

 

We could all grow our own vegetables or purchase from a local farm, only buy fruits in season, and support beneficial businesses who protect our health, vs businesses who want to sell us a communication device that is un-patchable and not able to use current software in two years.  It's not just that, these yearly upgrade plans seriously need to stop.

 

The only way I see their validity is if 100% of those devices that are traded in are resold to other upgraders, and I sincerely hope that is how it works.  It would be far too illogical to landfill or send to Africa, a device because it was used for 365 days.

Most of our local business are Warehouses and Trucking companies. Because Im only a few miles from Detroit Metro Airport. Closes thing to a grocery store we have is Dollar General and they cant keep it open due to lack of staff. Most of our Restaurants suck. The only local business that I really like is the Ice Cream Shop, but you have to buy at least $5 worth of stuff if you use a card and I normally dont carry cash. 

[LAwLz]

8 hours ago, E-waste said:

Apple has been releasing the iPhone for 13+ years, and every single one of them have always had six, sometimes even SEVEN years of software and security updates.

I am going to be nitpicky and say that you're wrong.

Not every iPhone has gotten 6+ years of updates.

 

The iPhone (1) got 3 years of updates.

The iPhone 3G got 2,5 years of updates.

The iPhone 3GS got 4,5 years of updates.

The iPhone 4 got 4 years of updates.

The iPhone 5C got 4 years of updates.

 

 

 

So you're right that they have been making iPhones for 13+ years, but the first 4 generations didn't get 6 years of updates.

I am nitpicking and I understand your point, but I thought I'd add that. I think Apple has provided a minimum of 6 years of updates to every phone since the 4S (except the 5c) however, oftentimes the updates are watered down and don't include all the new features. Usually (maybe?) for hardware reasons. You still get the security updates though which is nice.

Anyway, I get your point but I thought I'd add that little tidbit.

 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, E-waste said:

But we make a post about a company offering four years of updates, to me, that's a joke by now.

8 hours ago, E-waste said:

But we get excited about four?  Are we just gullible?

I think you need to reread the post. 

To me, and this might just be my interpretation, you come across as almost literally being in "blind rage". You miss a lot of critical pieces of information, possibly because you don't haven't researched the topic properly, and as a result a lot of your anger is completely misguided.

 

Nobody here is excited about 4 years of updates. People are excited for "more than 4 years of updates", because 4 used to be the "high standard".

Also, I really dislike your attitude because you are essentially saying improvements aren't worth celebrating unless they are the best. Why not celebrate when a company does something good, even if it's not the best? If you really care about e-waste then you should encourage companies to improve, which this thread is about. But to me it seems like you're more interested in being mad, to the point where you make up conspiracy theories to justify being mad and when you it gets pointed out that you're incorrect you do mental gymnastics to avoid having to congratulate the company you were mad at and instead shifts to being mad about something else. 

Just a f ew posts ago you were mad at Google for locking bootloaders. Then when I pointed out that and it's other companies who do, you got mad at Google again for allowing others to do that.

 

It's pretty telling that even when Google something good (keep their bootloaders unlocked), your response is "so I can't complain about that, but...". You don't want to acknowledge them doing something good so instead you mentally shift to trying to find something else to be mad at them about.

Give them credit where credit is due. Don't go "oh shit, now I need to find something else to complain about and I don't want to say they did something good so I'll ignore that aspect from now on". That's not healthy for you, and it's not how you encourage companies to do better. It just comes across as whiney.

 

 

8 hours ago, E-waste said:

Why not support the companies that are actually making a real attempt at competing on software longevity and reducing ewaste?  I'd like to see more of that in this and all other tech enthusiast communities.

Because those are not the two top priorities for me when choosing a phone. If those are your top priorities then the Fairphone is great and I am glad that an alternative exists for people. I am however not one of those people. 

 

Also, if you want to see more people in the tech enthusiast community adopt your values then I think you got the wrong approach. You are being overly negative and angry, and that's rarely how you persuade people to join your side. If you want an analogy, you're the tech equivalence of a vegan telling a meat eater that they are murderers in an attempt to stop them from eating meat. Stop calling people gullible, stop getting facts wrong, stop putting the blame on the wrong companies, stop doing all the mental gymnastics to try and justify being mad, because those things just spread negativity and make people annoyed/angry, usually at you, the opposite of what you want.

Instead, try and focus on the positives and encourage the types of behaviors you want. Some company promises to extend their software support? Tell them they are doing a good job and that you hope they will improve even more if they aren't up to your standard. Bringing negativity into positive news (and yes, increasing software support is positive, regardless of how much or little) doesn't help your cause.

[E-waste]

13 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Give them credit where credit is due.

Google does a noticable amount for the Linux kernel, and even helped audit the addon privacy badger which blocks Google's tracking domains, and they still chose to help, that's respectable!

 

Having a freely accessible video platform that has been around for more than 15+ years, and not ruining it completely, that's incredibly helpful and spreads educational information to all Internet users.

 

+ Android is open-source

+ All pixel branded devices have unlockable bootloader

+ Patching their stadia controllers to work independently with bluetooth

 

They do some good things, but with the e-waste and cobalt mining videos freely available on youtube, showing the insanely unacceptable conditions these folks are forced to work in and endure unsanitary and cruel health consequences brought by sociopathic, inhumanely greedy corporations, and knowing that this is happening, and not doing what should be done to fix it, at this point is just unacceptable.

 

There is no middle ground, there is not baby steps, there is no level of acceptance for this or any company (name just one that isn't) doing the same.

 

Computers have been around since the 1950s, and in the last 20 years, have had a huge increase in use and replacement / discards.  These comoanies make PLENTY of money, and with it, have 100% unimpeded ability to make massive changes to how they operate, and anything less than huge shifts, is just unacceptable to me.

 

ALL technology companies, at this point, should start sending any devices that usually get thrown into a plastic bag and shipped to a local landfill, have large discounts for sending in their used electronic devices, to be sent to a credible recycling company.

 

ERI seems to be the big one, they've been around since 2003 and it took 20 years for me to learn they existed.

 

Apple has a robot called Daisy, but do they monetarily incentivize their customers to send any Apple devices back so they can be picked by diasy?  They also serialize their internal components which uses software to prevent the ability to swap parts in devices as the user would like.

 

https://www.ifixit.com/News/69320/how-parts-pairing-kills-independent-repair

 

We have been on a harmful path regarding electronics productions, disposal and repair, and is starting to get better.  But it seems very odd that companies need the amount of money that they think they do.  I know things will eventually improve, in maybe 25 years or so, if we keep our current pace.

 

But I don't want to wait around for 25 years waiting for society / human greed to shift into positive results for our planet.  Let's get greedy about who can make the most repairable hardware, and what group of human beings can hire the best team of eager developers to support the software in the devices sold for the longest possible time.

 

Competition is one of the greatest and most important traits of the human race, yet these companies have chosen to stagnate on the products offered.  It's basically all the same.

 

The only two stand-out competitive companies in electronics today that I am aware of:

 

Framework Laptop

 

Fairphone.

 

That's it.

 

To congratulate these companies for very incremental slow and begrudging changes, is like giving a pass to someone or a company who helped continue the impoverishment of an entire continent.  It's saying that it's O.K., it's acceptable, and this is "good enough" when there is so much resource available in all of these companies, who could pool together and clean up the river and soil pollution they helped continue to pollute, and help alliviate the literal gangs of child soldiers and armed criminals around mineral mines.

 

China is at fault for 80+% of these mineral mines as that is who owns most of them.  The United States hasn't had a presence in these mines since 2006 and that is also a huge part of the issue.  American tech companies could help offer the current miers in Africa, who dig with their bare hands, literally, inside pits:

 

+ a respectable wage to live

+ proper safety gear for climbing down, and hearing protection gear for the thousands of ckosely seated humans banging metal hammers on metal substances to prevent hearing damage

+ help divert unusable electronic waste to a legit recycling facility

+ Plant vegetation in rivers and plant hemp to remove toxic minerals from the soil, or rather, clay, if anything will even grow in these areas

+ remove clay, and transplant soil from elsewhere and refertilize the land they help destroy

 

Until these things happen, yeah, I'll be a little bit angry, as it is an immediately solvable issue, and the quicker it begins, the sooner these poor oppressed and abused people can begin to repair the psychological damage of their society and have areable soil to grow food, and access to safe, clean drinking water.

 

I'm curious to how many people have taken the time to open Spotify, and type the podcast episode in my signature.  Once you see it, I'm hoping you'll be angry too.  I can't do the mental gymanstics that these companies do, to somehow justify their choices.

 

Sure, I may bitch and whine, but I'm not buying new electronics for quite some time.  I have all I could want.  I have an ssd that I quit using, a somewhat new computer build from about ten years ago, an older pc to go along with it, a television, a phone, a tablet and a laptop with a broken hinge and cracked screen.

 

I have every piece of technology I could want.  A faster computer or phone will not excite me.  I think I'm set technology wise, for the next 20 years, unless computers take a huge leap forward, and even then, do I really need it?

 

I think I'll sit out on all technological products, unless for some reason I have to use a particular device for some job, and see how things play out.  I will probably install more computer memory if building android is not possible with my current setup, as I find it quite interesting to be able to build LineageOS with an updated base, for older devices which can already install the software.  I'm not sure how to build it for a device which doesn't yet have it, the LineageOS website doesn't seem to explain that part.

 

Since 4G is currently the most widely accessible cell signal in some countries, one of the first android devices to get this is the Xperia M2.  It hasn't seen a new build of Lineage, compared to the Z series.  Actually, there is most likely a few devices that had 4G but probably don't have a guarenteed unlockable bootloader.

 

It was released in 2014 and is widely available on ebay, so I or someone else could put the old LineageOS 14.1 on it, and use the instructions to build the newest Lineage for the device.  It seems like an easy way to continue support for a still-usable device.  Type in a few commands and that's it.  This is the positive in open-source and Google has made it a reality.

 

Yet at the same time, they allow all the harm to go on with no concrete plans to stop it, and most other companies do not discuss it either, because they know how awful it is.  I thought about showing this to some younger family members, but I just think it's horribly inapproriate, and they would not be mentally or emotionally prepared to handle the videos.  It's just too much, definitely PG-13, it's that disturbing.

 

Seriously, listen, or rather, watch at least the video / picture portions of the podcast episode of Joe Rogan Experience #1914 and see how terrible it is.  Maybe then it will at least make slightly more sense why I'm constantly discussing this in text form online, trying to spread the word.

 

Plug of DasGeek, a host of some of the podcasts of the TuxDigital network whose videos talk about this issue a bit, and says tech influencers should also discuss the electronics waste issue.  I think people who discuss the REAL issues of the tech industry should get the most views, so maybe sharing that here will help spread that content and thought process.

 

It has been discussed on the podcast Destination Linux, but I forget which episode, it wasn't very long ago, sometime this year, and maybe even also last year, when discussing the fairphone.  On the podcast "hardware addicts" #72, it is discussed directly.  My point is it is frustratingly rare for this topic to be discussed.

 

The more people that are aware of this inhumane abuse of these poor people, the faster we can turn this ship around, figuratively, and if some of use forego some tech purchases, literally.  Aren't these companies rich enough already, or do you think they need and rightfully deserve a  few hundred extra million per year to continue the support of everything from horrible conditions of mineral mining to the assembly of products, where people are so unhappy, nets had to be installed on the windows?

 

Do you want to see change in 5 years, or 25 years?  You can help make that change.

[Mark Kaine]

On 10/12/2023 at 2:51 AM, E-waste said:

am stuck on Android 8, with an arbitrary lock on my bootloader with not enough understanding of how to bypass the lock.  Maybe not having updates actually improves the user experience due to not being able to introduce new bugs.

older Androids were a lot more lightweight...also as long you don't update your phone wont get slower lol... thats the whole point of updates, to "accidentally" slow down your phone...

 

 

last time i updated a phone must be over 10 years ago... xD

[Dracarris]

On 10/14/2023 at 3:19 AM, Mark Kaine said:

thats the whole point of updates, to "accidentally" slow down your phone...

oh please, not this utter horseshiet again

[Mark Kaine]

1 hour ago, Dracarris said:

oh please, not this utter horseshiet again

you mean proven fact?

 

also battery life may get halfed nilly willy (happened to me)! Good luck ~

[Dracarris]

3 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

you mean proven fact?

 

also battery life may get halfed nilly willy (happened to me)! Good luck ~

What proven fact. It's utter BS. There are even iOS versions that specifically made older phones snappier and improved battery life.

 

I'm currently on iOS 16.7 on an iphone X from 2017. That's a whole 6 versions newer OS compared to when the phone was released. Both snappiness and battery life are jolly fine.

[Mark Kaine]

On 10/17/2023 at 1:26 PM, Dracarris said:

What proven fact.

Already told you it happened to me, updated my Xperia z1, battery life was halved, most apps like camera etc were a lot slower... i never got any of this back either...

(or updated another phone ever, fool me once, fool me twice...) 

 

On 10/17/2023 at 1:26 PM, Dracarris said:

iphone

do i have to know what that is...? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[Dracarris]

17 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

Already told you it happened to me, updated my Xperia z1, battery life was halved, most apps like camera etc were a lot slower... i never got any of this back either...

(or updated another phone ever, fool me once, fool me twice...) 

Are you for real? Because one rando Android phone (apparently) got worse after a (probably ill-engineered) update you deduct "updates are only there to slow down devices"? Do you have any clue about the concept of anecdotal evidence? Just to be crystal clear, your single case does in absolutely no way qualify as proof for your statement.

 

This is also not a case of "fool me once", this is a case of simple-mindedness and honestly, stupidity to a certain degree. If you refuse to use any updates from now on, it is a matter of time until you will get fooled for the second time, when some actor uses one of the ever-accumulating exploits and vulnerabilities that your unpatched devices will have.

17 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

do i have to know what that is...? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Yes, you have to, maybe it would educate you a bit about software updates and their effects. It's a family of devices that is well and long maintained by the manufacturer with an actually improving user experience through said support, aka updates. Serving as a direct counter-example to your BS claims.

[LAwLz]

On 10/25/2023 at 8:58 AM, Dracarris said:

Are you for real? Because one rando Android phone (apparently) got worse after a (probably ill-engineered) update you deduct "updates are only there to slow down devices"? Do you have any clue about the concept of anecdotal evidence? Just to be crystal clear, your single case does in absolutely no way qualify as proof for your statement.

 

This is also not a case of "fool me once", this is a case of simple-mindedness and honestly, stupidity to a certain degree. If you refuse to use any updates from now on, it is a matter of time until you will get fooled for the second time, when some actor uses one of the ever-accumulating exploits and vulnerabilities that your unpatched devices will have.

Yes, you have to, maybe it would educate you a bit about software updates and their effects. It's a family of devices that is well and long maintained by the manufacturer with an actually improving user experience through said support, aka updates. Serving as a direct counter-example to your BS claims.

This one time I drove my car while wearing a seatbelt, and one of my headlights broke.

Therefore, I no longer drive with seatbelts and I haven't had a broken light since. The only logical conclusion to this is that seatbelts are designed to break headlights and I recommend people stop using them.