Madison reveals experiences working at LMG

[wanderingfool2]

11 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

From what's gone around, the meeting the audio comes from happened because of a 3rd party exit interview with Madison. Which means there was some review after her interview and it was decided to have that meeting to make sure everyone knew how to go around reporting problems.

 

Which actually really hurts Madison's accusations, rather than helps them.

Not necessarily.

 

If it was a 3rd party exit interview that sparked this; and if during that interview the same allegations of SH and SA were alleged...the fact of allowing a comment like the table joke would be an instant red flag (as it says that comments like that might have been acceptable in the workplace, which if directed towards a female who wasn't comfortable with that it's actually SH).

 

It also doesn't bode well I think that Linus literally was expressing almost a "don't trust her" vibe by the wording of speaking on someone's character.

 

Honestly though one of the things that should be easily verifiable though is the one where announcing her hiring prior to even contacting her to see if she still wanted the job/signing her and if they rug pulled being able to stream.  If that's true, it's something that should be demonstrable and if they violated her rights there that's going to be a major issue for LMG.

[digitalscream]

1 minute ago, avgvstvs said:

It seems that your missing the fact that hearing something from someone is not the same as being a witness.

Actually, it is; it's being a witness to the culture at the time, as well as being witness to something that somebody said, providing further signposts as to where to look.

 

This is never going to court, so "evidence" is to be evaluated in the context of a corporate investigation. And even if it did go to court, it would be a civil case and thus evaluated on the balance of probabilities (rather than beyond reasonable doubt). Ever heard of character witnesses? That applies to companies too (the company's character, ie workplace culture), and that's exactly what Colin's Tweet shows in isolation.

[LucySpectre]

A lot of the comments on this thread go a long way to highlight why it's so difficult for so many women to come forward with allegations of sexual harrassment or abuse. 

 

This girl has now exposed herself massive amount of gross BS from various detractors and trolls. That's not something you choose to do lightly.

 

Calling into question her accusations and/or making light of this fact or calling it into question takes us back to my first point here. 

Obviously there's unsubstantiated claims and hearsay but the amount of and the detail of the claims laid out shouldn't be initially met with  being written off as attention seeking (see my points above). 

Understand how hard it is to come forward with these sorts of allegations.

 

Understand the part you play in that. 

[avgvstvs]

Just now, digitalscream said:

Actually, it is; it's being a witness to the culture at the time, as well as being witness to something that somebody said, providing further signposts as to where to look.

 

This is never going to court, so "evidence" is to be evaluated in the context of a corporate investigation. And even if it did go to court, it would be a civil case and thus evaluated on the balance of probabilities (rather than beyond reasonable doubt). Ever heard of character witnesses? That applies to companies too (the company's character, ie workplace culture), and that's exactly what Colin's Tweet shows in isolation.

I don't get it why you're saying that it should be a civil case. If her allegations are true, someone commited a fellony. Shouldn't it be a criminal case then? She is saying that she was grabbed, for f**s sake. What does that even mean? Sounds really bad to me.

[Ok_Cartoonist157]

The workload for posting that she outlined would take around 2-3 hours max, for someone who assumingly has a workflow for this daily process that streamlines the task. Let's say that takes her up to lunchtime at 12pm even, that gives her the entire afternoon for the remainder add-ons that she has to work on, such as the 2 floatplane exclusives and ad-hoc sponsorship stuff. Overall the workload is manageable and it just sounds to me like she must've not been good at managing it at all. Besides that, the allegations against LMG as a work environment is yet to be confirmed and we should let this investigation pan out. Let's be real though, all of us have worked somewhere that isn't that bad, where there's always one or two people who twist everything to make it sound like the worst place to work in the world. They're usually work shy and complain about everything and they try and get you on their side of views, so all you do is sit there and nod your head so as to not aggravate the situation. She really sounds like one of these people. I hope LMG pulls out of this on the right side. Would be a shame if this seriously damages them.

[McGherkin]

3 minutes ago, digitalscream said:

See, as much as I'm open to the idea that Madison's telling the truth (and, on the balance of probability, I'm leaning towards "yes, she is"), I don't think this is actually particularly bleak for LMG. They're doing all the right things now, which is all they can be expected to do; they built a company structure which, if she's right, fostered a toxic culture - I can't believe they did it out of malice, but rather incompetence. None of them were experienced at this, and they've admitted that on a regular basis since day one.

 

It's not about being perfect, it's about how you react to it.

This is true.

 

However, Linus has claimed that he did not recognise any of the claims. This was false. The meeting audio proves it.

 

This could be a mind fart, but I’d highly doubt you’d read that and not remember that she raised concerns when she left prompting a meeting for the entire company. 

[dwrecks]

22 minutes ago, mikaelus said:

Gasp! 

 

So, no evidence. Gotcha.

 

Friend, whatever children's show you watched you watched misinformed you. People are convicted on witness testimony. It is one of the most important forms of evidence.

[SansVarnic]

-= Cleaned =-

Please Do Not derail the topic with Emily.

[dwrecks]

1 minute ago, Ok_Cartoonist157 said:

The workload for posting that she outlined would take around 2-3 hours max, for someone who assumingly has a workflow for this daily process that streamlines the task. Let's say that takes her up to lunchtime at 12pm even, that gives her the entire afternoon for the remainder add-ons that she has to work on, such as the 2 floatplane exclusives and ad-hoc sponsorship stuff. Overall the workload is manageable and it just sounds to me like she must've not been good at managing it at all. Besides that, the allegations against LMG as a work environment is yet to be confirmed and we should let this investigation pan out. Let's be real though, all of us have worked somewhere that isn't that bad, where there's always one or two people who twist everything to make it sound like the worst place to work in the world. They're usually work shy and complain about everything and they try and get you on their side of views, so all you do is sit there and nod your head so as to not aggravate the situation. She really sounds like one of these people. I hope LMG pulls out of this on the right side. Would be a shame if this seriously damages them.

 

If this work load is so simple and easy for one person why does a team now do it

[Bananasplit_00]

1 minute ago, SansVarnic said:

-= Cleaned =-

Please Do Not derail the topic with Emily. If you have comments on this please do so in the dedicated topic. Not here.

Glad to have the mod team around. This thread is absolutely vile, I can't imagine how bad it would have been without all your work

[RasmusDC]

Heard the recording now.. to be honest, listning to linus in the start, i think that flyin was the right way..

there is a escalation model, the (TRUST US) might be a bit wierd to hear, after the warranty shit..

 

James joke was "misplaced".

 

I do not see that as "evidence of anything"...

 

from my point, you have a LARGE scale company, what i have learned through my time in many of these, for MANY years, i am 45 now, gossip, rumors, misinterpretations, can lead to brutal things. sometimes there are also two parties to any story, i have seen people TOTALLY misunderstand a comment, and be REALLY hurt by it, that does not take away their feelings, but it means there is a discussion that needs to be had.

 

Linus enforces, that we take care of people, and reacts, because of a BRUTAL backlash.

 

Leaks can be destroying, and any company would like to fix that inhouse first.... because again, you are OBLIGATED to not disclosed staff or ex staff material, so it will be a onesided PUBLIC fight, before this is put to bed in a court, and nobody cares about the court decision, they care about the online fight.

 

I DO NOT, and i repeat, do not know what has happened, i do not know if there is a brutal enviroment. it seems that there is more than smoke from "ONE" place. i also know, that if you put a lot of VERY young immature people in a position, and young immature managers, things can go wrong, because atmosphere are a bit loose, where older people KNOW that you hit down on this EARLY stage, even if it does "limit" the general joy in a work place.

 

Glad to have heard it, i see nothing wrong in it (personally) i have heard many of these talks, it is normal standard company policy for many.. i like that they have a 3rd party HR company, so it also shows that there is an outside partner. 

 

again i do not say that there is nothing wrong, i just don´t see anything wrong with that video.

 

Madison was a very beloved character in the LTT universe, with such an excellent flyin. i think that is what supports this.. but if any wrongdoings have been done, OF COURSE this has to be hit down on..

 

But even being 45 in a large company, with grown ups.. with strong policy in a people focused company, shit still happens, yes it is never sexual harrasment, but brutal psychological warfare is common, and some are REALLY good at it.

[Uzrathixius]

23 hours ago, Legitsu said:

or we really gonna bite for the old 'female victum routine' 

Many will, and have; unfortunately. Ah, to live the easy life. 

 

Tbh it just reeks of "you mean I'm expected to work and what is this whole criticism thing?". 

[afghanistanU]

At the moment, we're playing the parts of judges, lawyers, and prosecutors all at once. This setup is akin to wearing too many hats and it's time to simplify things. There's a saying that goes, "Jack of all trades, master of none." It's a reminder that trying to do everything can lead to being proficient in nothing.

[charliebros]

8 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

-= Cleaned =-

Please Do Not derail the topic with Emily. If you have comments on this please do so in the dedicated topic. Not here.

Sorry! Didn't thought about it as derailing

[McGherkin]

16 minutes ago, RasmusDC said:

Heard the recording now.. to be honest, listning to linus in the start, i think that flyin was the right way..

there is a escalation model, the (TRUST US) might be a bit wierd to hear, after the warranty shit..

 

James joke was "misplaced".

 

I do not see that as "evidence of anything"...

 

from my point, you have a LARGE scale company, what i have learned through my time in many of these, for MANY years, i am 45 now, gossip, rumors, misinterpretations, can lead to brutal things. sometimes there are also two parties to any story, i have seen people TOTALLY misunderstand a comment, and be REALLY hurt by it, that does not take away their feelings, but it means there is a discussion that needs to be had.

 

Linus enforces, that we take care of people, and reacts, because of a BRUTAL backlash.

 

Leaks can be destroying, and any company would like to fix that inhouse first.... because again, you are OBLIGATED to not disclosed staff or ex staff material, so it will be a onesided PUBLIC fight, before this is put to bed in a court, and nobody cares about the court decision, they care about the online fight.

 

I DO NOT, and i repeat, do not know what has happened, i do not know if there is a brutal enviroment. it seems that there is more than smoke from "ONE" place. i also know, that if you put a lot of VERY young immature people in a position, and young immature managers, things can go wrong, because atmosphere are a bit loose, where older people KNOW that you hit down on this EARLY stage, even if it does "limit" the general joy in a work place.

 

Glad to have heard it, i see nothing wrong in it (personally) i have heard many of these talks, it is normal standard company policy for many.. i like that they have a 3rd party HR company, so it also shows that there is an outside partner. 

 

again i do not say that there is nothing wrong, i just don´t see anything wrong with that video.

 

Madison was a very beloved character in the LTT universe, with such an excellent flyin. i think that is what supports this.. but if any wrongdoings have been done, OF COURSE this has to be hit down on..

 

But even being 45 in a large company, with grown ups.. with strong policy in a people focused company, shit still happens, yes it is never sexual harrasment, but brutal psychological warfare is common, and some are REALLY good at it.

There isn’t anything majorly wrong with the content of the meeting. That’s not what’s being discussed.

 

The fact is the meeting happened, and Linus’s comments in the meeting date it to around the time Madison left, which means Linus and everyone in that meeting has been aware that allegations were made at the time.

 

Therefore when Linus stated to the Verge yesterday that he didn’t recognise anything from Madison’s thread, that is demonstrably a false statement, because he WAS aware of at the very least an accusation of impropriety when Madison left the country.

[Uzrathixius]

13 minutes ago, afghanistanU said:

There's a saying that goes, "Jack of all trades, master of none." It's a reminder that trying to do everything can lead to being proficient in nothing.

The saying is jack of all trades, master of one. The none thing is relatively modern and twists the meaning. 

[wanderingfool2]

41 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

From what's gone around, the meeting the audio comes from happened because of a 3rd party exit interview with Madison. Which means there was some review after her interview and it was decided to have that meeting to make sure everyone knew how to go around reporting problems.

 

Which actually really hurts Madison's accusations, rather than helps them.

The thing is though, I would have issues for that kind of meeting (it at least sounded like a managers meeting, instead of an employee wide meeting).

 

It's an issue in a meeting where talking about creating a safe space, and essentially saying if you have an issue go to your managers, then Linus, then to the 3rd party HR.  If lets say in the exit interview the SH stuff was mentioned.  Anything with SH or SA should immediately get put to HR.

 

The biggest gripe I have about the meeting though is essentially saying that going to social media or other stuff essentially calls into the persons character; and to factor that into whether one believes it's true.  The way it was phrased to me almost sounded like a saying "we think we are right and don't believe what she is saying.".

 

If it was a 3rd party exit interview, and if the 3rd party that's investigating this issue has access to it; then this could help if SH and SA was mentioned...because having an HR meeting where there is a sexual joke should have been shot down (doesn't matter if Linus is okay with it, it sends a bad message to have that in an HR meeting).

 

Other than that, it doesn't help or hinder what Madison really said; as it was for a large part as well a boiler plate HR meeting.  I'll reserve judgement until the 3rd party investigates.  But it does not help that Linus' statement that he didn't know about any of this kind of thing.

[afghanistanU]

5 minutes ago, Uzrathixius said:

The saying is jack of all trades, master of one. The none thing is relatively modern and twists the meaning. 

The correct saying is "Jack of all trades, master of none." It highlights the idea that someone who dabbles in many different skills might not excel in any one particular area.

[Mages]

I'm surprised I don't see people talking about how insane it is to slice your leg open to go to the ER because of your work place. Who in their right mind inflicts self harm over a job... To me this raises a lot more questions about the credibility of the claims. 

[Majestic12]

13 minutes ago, Uzrathixius said:

Many will, and have; unfortunately. Ah, to live the easy life. 

 

Tbh it just reeks of "you mean I'm expected to work and what is this whole criticism thing?". 

I said this before in this topic and got piled on for that. I highly suspect she thought this would be a dream job and her being so popular with the fans she'd be given a lot of leeway. The job she had to do is very manageable for anyone with some experience but she's young and was likely struggling quite a bit. I think many of her grievances were born from this:
- she started to fail to meet the required posts on social media

- she got stressed out & frustrated and likely lashed out at others for it as stressed people tend to do

- it causes friction with her co-workers meaning anything they say is likely to be taken the wrong way (which is sadly all too common, even in this topic)

- no mediating will solve this because the core of the problem is her not being experienced enough to do her job well

- and let's not forget LMG employs 120 people - many of those would be jealous of her because she was such a fan favorite. If they see her screw up, it would be enticing to some of the less "friendly" staff members to throw shade at her, undermine her, etc. out of pettiness.

 

I've also been aware for a very long time that there's likely a tiered culture in LMG - the "old guard" and a select few of the newcomers who have strong compatible personalities would be closely knit I imagine and then you have "nameless" employees who all struggle to become good enough or stick out to appear in videos so I'm sure there's some hard competition happening behind doors.

 

[RasmusDC]

11 minutes ago, McGherkin said:

There isn’t anything majorly wrong with the content of the meeting. That’s not what’s being discussed.

 

The fact is the meeting happened, and Linus’s comments in the meeting date it to around the time Madison left, which means Linus and everyone in that meeting has been aware that allegations were made at the time.

 

Therefore when Linus stated to the Verge yesterday that he didn’t recognise anything from Madison’s thread, that is demonstrably a false statement, because he WAS aware of at the very least an accusation of impropriety when Madison left the country.

okay agree that that statement might be an issue, but i see no real problem with having a reaction to an employee spreading a negative word about the company, and then having a meeting to enforce company rules.

 

To be honest, and i am BRUTALLY guessing here, the Madison thing looks like a lower management failure, more than Linus failing. 

 

you loose control when organizations get big. you have to delegate. and his LT is really immature.. also sold well by James on that meeting..

 

and .. is it a false statement, if he honestly don´t see that behavior himself. i am not protecting the guy, i have had a barrage on him in the thread about him and GN.. i think he does many things wrong..

 

IF he as a CEO have SEEN that behavior, then he has to react..

 

the Verge you say is that he says that he did not recognize it, that is saying that he does not SEE that type of sexual harrasment and bullying, that is not him saying that he did not know about the accusation..

 

To be honest, a public fight on this ends up hurting the victim just as much.  it can change the company culture and maybe fix it for others... but there needs to be much more, and there needs to be evidence.

 

this is such a loose fight...  

[McGherkin]

1 minute ago, RasmusDC said:

okay agree that that statement might be an issue, but i see no real problem with having a reaction to an employee spreading a negative word about the company, and then having a meeting to enforce company rules.

 

To be honest, and i am BRUTALLY guessing here, the Madison thing looks like a lower management failure, more than Linus failing. 

 

you loose control when organizations get big. you have to delegate. and his LT is really immature.. also sold well by James on that meeting..

 

and .. is it a false statement, if he honestly don´t see that behavior himself. i am not protecting the guy, i have had a barrage on him in the thread about him and GN.. i think he does many things wrong..

 

IF he as a CEO have SEEN that behavior, then he has to react..

 

the Verge you say is that he says that he did not recognize it, that is saying that he does not SEE that type of sexual harrasment and bullying, that is not him saying that he did not know about the accusation..

 

To be honest, a public fight on this ends up hurting the victim just as much.  it can change the company culture and maybe fix it for others... but there needs to be much more, and there needs to be evidence.

 

this is such a loose fight... 

I agree that this was probably the first Linus heard of it, as he seems pretty hurt that it’s not gone to him directly by that point. 
 

it does also lend weight to the accusation being credible, because if Madison had made a completely false statement on her way out that was quickly dispelled, there would be no point in pulling in all the staff and asking them to report anything else they see after she left.

[Viviem]

3 minutes ago, Mages said:

I'm surprised I don't see people talking about how insane it is to slice your leg open to go to the ER because of your work place. Who in their right mind inflicts self harm over a job... To me this raises a lot more questions about the credibility of the claims. 

multiple current and former employees have liked her posts, some of them even directly corroborating them, just because you can not understand why someone would be driven to take an extreme action to get judgement-free time off from an overly demanding workplace does not mean there is any reason to doubt the validity of her claims. 

[Uzrathixius]

9 minutes ago, Majestic12 said:

I've also been aware for a very long time that there's likely a tiered culture in LMG - the "old guard" and a select few of the newcomers who have strong compatible personalities would be closely knit I imagine and then you have "nameless" employees who all struggle to become good enough or stick out to appear in videos so I'm sure there's some hard competition happening behind doors.

Which, frankly, is rather natural. This will be around at almost any small company once you outgrow the tiny startup phase. 

I can't speak for her experience in social media prior to LMG besides...somehow garnering a fan base for being annoying on a video. But I certainly can imagine one thinking a Social media manager / creator / post monke would be an easy job, then being faced with the reality that it's not as easy as one expects. 

 

  

2 minutes ago, Viviem said:

just because you can not understand why someone would be driven to take an extreme action to get judgement-free time off from an overly demanding workplace does not mean there is any reason to doubt the validity of her claims. 

Disagree. Someone acting crazy is a valid reason to doubt their claims. 

[RasmusDC]

Just now, McGherkin said:

I agree that this was probably the first Linus heard of it, as he seems pretty hurt that it’s not gone to him directly by that point. 
 

it does also lend weight to the accusation being credible, because if Madison had made a completely false statement on her way out that was quickly dispelled, there would be no point in pulling in all the staff and asking them to report anything else they see after she left.

i have seen a guy being completely hanged on a cross, because he was EXTREME introvert, and a girl felt creeped out by him, so she felt harrassed by him. the guy was just not good in open spaces, he did not say ANYTHING, but got destroyed by this feeling that this girl had, after i saw that, and tried really hard to support.. i must admit, even though i HAVE a feeling, i ALWAYS dive deep REALLY deep when we have these cases.. and also put very much reflection on my  dialogue on work, because things that really are not meant negatively..

 

I had some fun banter at a time with a girl collegue, where she like tore me a new one, and i like pushed a bit back, where a 3rd girl, took that as "brutal" where we had to sit down and have an open dialogue and meet it head on, because it ends up creating more drama if you do not have these talks.. (not sexual, she made fun of Denmark, i took a stab at her Ex Russia birth place)

 

so i fully support dialogue.. because we are different people, with different tolerances, but we still also have to have the ability to talk relaxed and have a fun work life...

 

and it also helps you figure out what language work.. and WHEN and where you can open up. 

 

it is less relaxed to work in a job today. 

 

We also had 2 guys getting a warning, because they were both CHUBBY guys, and they where like making fun of eachother, ONLY eachother a bit, and a 3rd collegue reported them, because she felt hurt by it.. 

 

it is a different world, some is good some is bad, and we have to evolve.