Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[Thepyrodex]

20 minutes ago, Orthusaku said:

"We made the mistake of auctioning the block that we did not own. We are going to work to get the block back to the rightful owner, and return the money from the auction. We did not accurately review the prototype and will be deleting the video about it. We will be making a video going out the changes we will be making to ensure our data is both accurate, valid, and not used incorrectly."

 

But even if that was said 99% of the outraged people here wouldn't change their minds about what is "true".  People here want blood not an apology and its hilarious to see this

 

[joaopt]

1 minute ago, AnonCoder said:

Not sure if this was mentioned, but in the last WAN show, Linus talked about a prototype WAN themed backpack at LTX.
I thought what he said about it was pretty hypocritical considering what they did to Billet...

 

(Timestamped video link, Starts at 53:29)

 

 

Linus is literally a waking meme at this point

 

hypocrisy is a person, it's called Linus. "yes a prototype should be returned" f'ing lmao

[dege13]

Linus could have answered perfectly to Steve, with research and after talking to all of his team about all of the issues, and listing all corrective actions. He could have come back from this looking better than before. But he didn't.

At this point, they need to tackle this issue the right way. Get the new CEO involved. Maybe hire a PR firm for a few weeks.

[IrishDiem]

7 minutes ago, m9x3mos said:

So he is Judas for pointing out issues that Linus has with his production workflow and questionable ethics decisions?

Not like a member of Linus' team also didn't also try to say they were doing more or better testing that Gamers Nexus.

If it was a simple rebuttal I could be on board but the sum total of that rant was that his accurate points were lost cause he wanted to be so salty that even Lots wife would be - damn too much salt. 

[harls]

4 minutes ago, LinusTechLies said:

So the fact that they stole someone's intellectual property and auctioned it off was cherry picking? Or the fact that they all admitted in their own videos that they are producing too much content at the expense of quality. Or that @LinusTech blatantly lied to his own community.

 

So exposing all this is bad journalism gotcha!

Where did Linus blatantly lie?

[rob_ob]

8 minutes ago, snkiz said:

No I did not. I'm not supporting Steve's witch hunt. The first one was enough.

Sheeple gonna sheep

[Nachmanowicz]

2 minutes ago, QChoumont said:

How do you figure that?

We are talking about LTT and GamersNexus, two companies that in the past have done exposés on other companies in the tech field, this behavior is precedented. The comparison to the Washington Post and Times is not without merit as those two companies have set expectations of reporting in that fashion. Coke and Pepsi have set no such expectations and have no established history of integrity. 

Please elaborate on how the comparison to Coke and Pepsi is more fitting.

I'm not talking about GN. I'm talking about LTT being a tech channel with a heavy emphasis on product reviews. But the majority shareholder has a clear conflict of interest when it comes to laptops because he's an investor in a laptop startup. Simple as that.

[The_Q42]

6 minutes ago, Reavantos said:

The person and their history matter in their intent. Thats all

Eh, not if the facts presented are still facts.  You can call him out for presenting them in a way you don't like, but it doesn't change the accuracy of the statements.  Some of what GN said had some subjectivity, but he was careful to even back all of that up with actual statements from LMG made in video or otherwise.

[notFalkon]

Just now, Cl0udK1ller said:

The fact it took a video from GN for Linus to actually reach out to Billet labs to compensate them is mind blowing to me.

Was it confirmed anywhere that Linus didn't reach out to Billet labs until after the video? Trying to find sources for things I haven't heard before that I'm reading here.

[TylerD321]

Just now, dege13 said:

Linus could have answered perfectly to Steve, with research and after talking to all of his team about all of the issues, and listing all corrective actions. He could have come back from this looking better than before. But he didn't.

At this point, they need to tackle this issue the right way. Get the new CEO involved. Maybe hire a PR firm for a few weeks.

There is no winning. You know the backlash would've been 10 times worse if he waited any longer to respond. Something about sweeping it under the rug and ignoring it I would wager.

[ScoggsUK]

2 minutes ago, VisibleXela said:

The video states that LMG had the prototype (obviously true, and easy to confirm with Billet). It states Billet requested it back (again, Billet has receipts). It states that the block went up for auction (they literally have video to prove this one), that Billet has no idea where the block ended up (easy to follow that train of logic, no confirmation needed), and that Billet was ghosted by LMG (also confirmable by Billet, and we know it was true at the time the video went live).

 

Where's the conjecture? What would or could LMG confirm or deny that would change that story in any way? Unless I missed something, in which case feel free to point it out in the video, it seems GN only reported on the facts.

It's conjecture as you don't have confirmation it's been sold. You can infer that's been sold, but you report it as fact. And if your taking an opinion you should reach out for comment. Simple. Inferring without confirmation is not a fact. 

[tmk]

I feel the same. Started watching Linus when he was in NCIX, I was among first few k subsribers in Linus Tech Tips. I wasn't even that mad about yesterday's video but if Linus lied about having an agreement to repay this cooler, that's bad.

[Pailloran]

4 minutes ago, VisibleXela said:

Makes me wonder if it was phrased ambiguously for a reason.

It may have been, but either way it was phrased terribly if you can read it two different ways.  The whole response was pretty bad, but I think lumping or mixing mistakes with malice is bad too.  And name-dropping other channels as you debut your new stuff is also not too wise - they should says "this is how we plan to differentiate from other channels" instead of naming GN and HWUB.  But in the end it's a dumb internet fight. I just hope no employees or their families end up suffering because of mistakes and name-calling. 

[WillHeard]

2 minutes ago, Vilacom said:

So you didnt read the massive wall of text?  Like, I dont blame you, I'm no one and nothing I said matters at all, but clearly you didnt read it to the end at all

I did, but that’s the point; the fact that you need to bring GN into this conversation, even open with it, it discredits the rest of what you have to say. You are saying you didn’t watch the video and judge it on its contents. You judged it based on who made it and thus brought your opinion on that person into it. 

 

This is in the same vein of exactly why GN did not and should not have reached out to LMG before publishing.

[Hezkezl]

7 minutes ago, snkiz said:

No I did not. I'm not supporting Steve's witch hunt. The first one was enough.

He specifically mentions in the follow-up video as to why he didn't contact Linus beforehand.

 

Good job formulating an opinion without getting all of the relevant info, and not caring about updating your stance once more information comes to light. That just makes you a useless troll who's arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

Go watch the video. Sack up, and watch someone responding to Linus's attempts at gaslighting everybody. You'll be okay. You're not personally involved. Linus doesn't know who you are or that you even exist. Your blind fanboyism of him isn't going to be noticed by anybody at LMG. Go watch the most up to date info, it's only about 10 minutes long, and then you can go back to your original point because people like you never change your tune once you've made your mind up regardless of the actual facts.

[coopa]

1 minute ago, swimtome said:

• But on the being accused side, I would find a huge difference between "Hey you sold my car and kept the cash" vs "Hey why did you mix my car in with your charity event".  One implies quite a bit more malice then other.

They had already agreed to send the monoblock back to Billet twice. It wasn't "mixed up" at the charity event as it was never sent for the charity event. They just took stuff off the shelf and put it up for auction. Yes, I don't think LMG put it up for auction purposefully, but it's more than an oopsie.

 

2 minutes ago, swimtome said:

• Yes I'm sure there's some level of tax deduction, and I'm sure it's pennies back for LMG that the wouldn't even be thinking twice about.  Like the backpack, do you really think he planned to steal water block just to get a few bucks tax deduction and hope no one would notice?!

The entire auction is tax deductible; for Canadian corporations, they can deduct up the full amount of the donation (which the sale price of the charitable auction is) up to 75% of net income. So if you charitably auction something off for, say, $1000, you can deduct $750 in tax liability from your corporate income tax liability.

 

4 minutes ago, swimtome said:

• PR:  Yes, and an unfortunate truth is that the lack thereof is what makes LTT kind of endearing to long time viewers.  WAN is a weekly genuine behind the scenes, for better or for worse.  It does add transparency."

Linus cannot run an $100M corporation like this. He's not a small YouTuber anymore. I've seen many on reddit and here say they are long time viewers and at the stage where Linus has a 9 digit corporate empire and is building an 8 digit lab to test hardware, he is not the little guy anymore and it is no longer charming.

 

5 minutes ago, swimtome said:

1. "Implies that Billet" I personally didn't agree with Steve on that, I did not read Linus's reply as that at all.  I interpreted that as Linus reached out and came to a number already.

 

Many read it as this on both reddit and in this thread. Look at many of the replies in this thread after Linus' response before GN's response to that which were to the effect of "so LMG paid Billet to reimburse them for the auctioned prototype, what's the big deal" - there were many. The overall tone of Linus' reply (feeling hurt, portraying self as the victim, not acknowledging any criticism other than Billet other than generic "we try to do better" statements) makes me believe his wording choice in that manner was deliberate to create that misconception.

[MotherboardsInThePark]

1 minute ago, Thepyrodex said:

 

But even if that was said 99% of the outraged people here wouldn't change their minds about what is "true".  People here want blood not an apology and its hilarious to see this

 

There's a reason why people want blood. This guy Lienuts is a narcissist whose childish behavior has been tolerated for far too long. It's time for him to wake up to reality.

[smcoakley]

3 minutes ago, coopa said:

The answer would have been not to post at all before making the video, or making a shorter initial statement to the effect of "While we don't agree with all of the content in the Gamers Nexus video, we plan to address these points in a new video to be released in the coming days. We appreciate the community and want to be fully transparent. Producing quality content for our community is our #1 priority" would have been fine and given them time to deep dive into each issue.

Yeah you're probably right about that. But this is Linus we're talking about here, he says what's in his head. Which is something some people like about him. Except when he says something that makes them mad. Besides, a statement like that would commit them to making a video which they may or may not do.

3 minutes ago, coopa said:

But Linus bitterly takes it as a personal attack, so he has to post a self-serving gaslighting reply that portrays himself as the victim and uses weasel words to imply the Billet labs situation had been amicably resolved with Billet before Steve published the video - when in fact, that wasn't the case, and the offer to give Billet recompense for the auctioned prototype was only extended AFTER Steve's video.

 

He has a technical audience. I would expect the community would be satisfied with a video that honestly acknowledged the issues, that they occurred, why they occurred, and what they plan to do in order to improve future videos. Instead we got a self-serving corporate speak reply that barely touched on Billet and gave generic non-committal speech on "we're always trying to do better, humans make mistakes, blahblahblah".

 

If they had made such statements, even if not supported in fact, then they could use that as a reason, but instead we got the generic reply "always trying to do better" from Linus that feels extremely dismissive and not actually dignifying it with a response. (The fact that Linus has stated he has no plans of addressing this on the WAN show on Friday is more proof that his attitude is dismissive.)

 

The problem is that whether or not it was ignorance or malice, or done in a profitable sale or a charity auction (note: an auction is a form of sale), the damage to Billet for the loss of their prototype is still real, and the offer to reimburse Billet only came after Gamer's Nexus published their video. The root cause is likely the same: poor management/rushed production schedules at LMG, which cause them to lose attention to detail. 

 

In terms of "want to give LTT a chance to respond further" - nobody put a gun to Linus' head and made him reply the way he did. But he rushed a very poor statement out the door that makes the attitude of LTT seem dismissive and that they are not going to take the feedback seriously.

I will see what LTT has to say in the future. But Linus has replied publicly in this thread at this point. We have two sides of the story - even if LTT rushed theirs out the door and should have waited.

I didn't see "takes it as a personal attack" in Linus' responses so far. I'm not saying that the responses are or are not sufficient, but that's not how I interpreted it. Though if he did take it as a personal attack, I would partially understand that; that would probably be a natural human response for anyone in his situation. He did rush out a statement, but IMO it kinda sounded like people wanted a rushed statement based on people's comments in this thread.

 

It is way too early at only 24 hours since the GN video to say whether LTT will be taking feedback seriously. That's kinda my point actually -- it feels like its way too early to say really anything at all, other than speculation.

 

I assume the Billet Labs situation is still unfolding, so I won't comment on that.

[LinusTechLies]

15 minutes ago, Touch My Hamm said:

The amount of people creating accounts or burner accounts to not folly their mains to say "here is my opinion" to then add nothing of value is crazy. I stick by what I said before. People on both sides appear to be misinterpreting what is meant by each others wording and meanings.

Maybe it's because Linus knows that this forum receives the least amount of traffic.

 

Hence he made his only reply here.

 

Thats why he's radio silent on all his other platform's because damage control is easier on a forum thats only active when there's drama.

[IrishDiem]

6 minutes ago, dynastes said:

That implies that you assume ill intent, which is an entirely subjective take and not really substantiated by anything. GN's tone has always been rough when it comes to criticism. There is no reason to be overly diplomatic or friendly in cases like this though. The fact that @LinusTech obviously cannot take this form of criticism does not change that whatsoever.

 

When I posted first here this morning, I might still have agreed in part. But after the billet timeline has been clarified and Linus has been shown blatantly lying to cover his ass up, that has changed substantially. In what world is someone who does stuff like that worthy of being handled with tender fingers?

If it was a video about Billet and that farce I would be 100% on board. But why mention peoples previous jobs? As a poacher turned gatekeeper in a different industry and then back again I wouldn't like my integrity questioned like that. At least not without real evidence. 

[throwawayManMode]

2 minutes ago, notFalkon said:

Was it confirmed anywhere that Linus didn't reach out to Billet labs until after the video? Trying to find sources for things I haven't heard before that I'm reading here.

Yes, by Billet Labs themselves: 

 

[Legitsu]

19 minutes ago, Thaldor said:

That's pretty much the thing. Linus wants Luke there because he knows Luke will have his back even if Luke was to disagree with him. Luke also won't go and deal the low blows to Linus because they know each other, like Luke won't pressure Linus over that he contacted Billet Labs only after the GN video went live and just before posting his response like he would have had the whole thing "done right" a week ago because that would most likely push Linus over the edge.

 

@Legitsu This is also exactly why GN probably didn't ask Linus for input before going public, Linus would have instantly, before even answering Steve, contacted his lawyer and Billet Labs to make it seem like LMG didn't fuck up as badly as they did. Was it against good journalistic ways? Kind of, you should reach out for input before going public but in cases where the party invovled will go and try to undermine not only your news piece but do shitty things generally, it is a rule that can be broken.

Real journalists reach out for comment regardless of whether or not it impacts the viability of their story, that's journalism and you're putting words in Linus's mouth with the whole lawyer Comment. in the history of the history of LMG not once has he ever ever gotten a lawyer involved that I am aware of. He generally owns up to his mistakes and handles them despite being attacked on all sides if there was ever a time where Linus or Taryn should be reaching for the legal option, it's now because this is basically slander because the difference between slander and a newspiece is that a newspiece you reach out for comment with slander you don't

[jubjub]

Hopefully people internally are calling Linus out. He's being a condescending asshole again framing things as if we don't understand him when we do understand we just think he's wrong. He now has a pattern of doing this like with trust me bro. Anything but a full 180 alongside an apology to Steve here isn't acceptable. Maybe it's time for him to retire and let everyone else take over if he can't maintain his integrity anymore.

This is such a stupid situation. Steve handed LTT the easiest way to convert their mistakes into a W and instead Linus took everything as a personal attack and dug in. If Linus truly had the integrity he claims to have we'd be emphasising with why these issues occurred and discussing how they're going to fix them but instead we're left questioning Linus' character in a situation where the only person to bring character into it was Linus.

[WallacEngineering]

40 minutes ago, jooroth18 said:

Its not that weird honestly. Every time there is controversey, linus first reacts with pushback, and then later once given thought and reflection a more well balanced, but still not perfect response. 

 

Linus is an emotions first person, and first acts out of self defense before rational thought. And the haters using derogatory terms dont help.

 

But seeing him repeat these well known and demonstrated mistakes is fustrating and dissapointing, coming from a fan who has been watching for 8+ years.

I mean I guess I can agree that Linus isn't the absolute most professional guy in the entire world and that he is a little more emotional than most especially as the CEO or should I now say ex-CEO of a multi-million dollar company.

 

But seriously, I remember Linus at least having some professionalism in him as well as quite a bit more tact. But then again I started watching him more than a decade ago and I guess money and power really do change a man.

 

When I first subscribed, Linus almost cared as much about accuracy and providing good consumer advice as GN does. And I can personally guarantee you that the Linus of yesteryear never would have acted like this in the face of honest criticism.

 

The old Linus would have been like: "Oh damn dawg, I've got too many people working for me in my grip on my accuracy and trust with my audience is starting to slip, maybe I should go ahead and fix that".

 

Im also quite curious as to how Yovonne is reacting to the situation.

[TubsAlwaysWins]

2 hours ago, Ottoman420 said:

I been waiting for this comment.

 

Every interesting video (recently, imo) is botched and we only get the finished or jank finished product right at the end of a video (on yt) sometimes just as the credits are coming up.

 

Linus has his dropping things persona and "eh its fine" "trust me bro" energy but when the whole video feels like that it does bother me.

 

So for me Steve highlighted this issue that its the sheer numbers of videos LMG release every week and i hope they take a slower route, look at creators like ZeFrank, CGP Grey and Real Life Lore and loads more they take an absolute age to release new content because they want it to be as accurate as possible before release.

 

I wouldnt mind if LTT released one 30/45 min video a week and it was top notch quality fully utilizing the lab he paid so much for but even 3 times a week would be better than just pushing out content that i dont think can be managed for innacuracies if you have to release the video by 5pm, dosent matter the size of the buisness if you only have 3 man hours or whatever per project then being accurate isnt the priority.

 

Anyway i dont hate the guy, he didnt kill my dog or anything im not a steve fan boy or a linus stan and the reaction from some as if Linus is as bad or as complicit as say a company like Monsanto (ooooo) or steve is a clout chaser with a boring voice. I wish people cared this much about their towns and their cities and the countries in which they reside, not to say its ok for LTT to inadvertedly cost a company so much but pretending that Linus is some sort of Canadian Cruella de Burns is mad to me- just a comment on the apparent "OUTRAGE"

 

and breathe

Surprised im the first one to say it. I hate seeing cheap work done. I struggle with it in my current job now. Sometimes I feel bad when I know a job im sent on is gonna run over the quoted hours, but I would rather make it look good so they and anyone who sees my work says "Hey, who did that? How do i hire them?"

Im sure Linus is in it for the money but I dont think this is the primary driving force in these decisions.  I find that owners can get so caught up in trying to expand or cut margins that they forget who is #1: Their employees. 

• Employees are expensive. I dont know any of the money behind it but your (employee) paycheck is somewhere between 1-3 and 2-3 of the employers expenses for hiring you. You gotta consider insurance, office spacing, any computers, etc. they need, and improving their lives. The owner is nothing without his employees. 
• Tools are expensive to have. I dont know how Labs its going to turn out but I like the idea of being able to dump a HUGE amount of money into your company to make yourself stand out on top. The issue is that if you either arent utilizing that equipment correctly (In this case half-assign bench marks and reviews) or you are out clowning on yourself (In this case videos) the amount of respect you can have drops. 

I want to believe LMG is a professional company that should have higher standards. I know its different because the product they sell isnt typically what high baller companies 

Its obvious the goal is to be the top tech content creator their is. No one is going to take things seriously after 1. this happened, and 2. You can go back and look at any of the clickbait-y videos. You can tell they are rushed and mr Tips will say "I went out and spend 40 quadrabilijon dollars on this insert machine tool thing here so we could draw a diglett on a noctua fan. Find out where people are falling behind. Let them get GOOD at what they do. Micromanage less and push for perfection, even when it takes time. Push them into teams and relax a little on deadlines. He clearly has the cash flow to expand more. I understand its hard to vet that many employees. 

 

I dont know what the structure there is like. They make it look like a fun place to be and a work environment that encourages you to enjoy what you do. I hope that's what it is, just not what I see. I could absolutly see this being an over-worked environment. I also understand that its Linus's baby. Hes been with it since day 1 and its hard letting go of control. I totally see it. I just think if you wanted your company to grow at this rate, you have to be ready to let others take leader roles. 

 

Im sure we could all go on with "Well if I ran that company I would do blah and bleh and bloeh" and obviously its not that way. Linus, if you want an outsiders perspective Ill come do my thing (Which isnt my thing but I enjoy and think im good at it) and tell you what I would change. Kinda like a undercover boss but its some dipshit no one has heard of. 10/10 sneaky snek

 

Speaking more directly to @LinusTech here, 

 

My CEO/boss once said something along the lines of "The best way to know if your company is in good hands and can stay self sustaining is [for you, the Owner / Ceo / Whatever] to take a vacation for at least 1 month. Dont interact with the company, dont check on it unless someone important reaches out to you. Let loose, relax, enjoy life, and trust the employees you have hired and the business you have made. "

 

I dont want this to come off as a personal attack and I have absolutly no clue what life looks like for your family. Just make sure you are present when your kids grow up. It means the most to them. My dad was gone maybe 1/3-1/2 of every year with work. He still works alot. I drew away from my parents for a bit but am coming back. Sucks when I call him and hes too busy working to chat. 

 

~fin~

 

I havent slept in like 36 hours and im not proof reading, so forgive me if thats all over the place. Just kinda spitting thoughts into keystrokes as they come. Maybe some of this is coming from personal ties but I see connections between them. Maybe. Might come back and add edits. Who knows.