Home Server Advice

[TechNoob9]

Hi everyone,

 

First time poster. Been following Linus since his beginning with NCIX. Huge fan of his YT channel, and saw his video on turning a pc into a server.

 

A friend is going to be giving me his old DDR3 PC build. I don't have the specs yet, but the board is a full ATX, has 16GB of RAM, a 1 TB HDD, and the CPU is an i5 series with windows 10. Willing to upgrade as necessary (e.g., add additional HDD for back ups, SSD for speed, etc).

 

I never created a local server before, so this is part of the fun. I want to know if this PC I will be receiving can be turned into a server that can meet the following needs:

• Able to hold a Microsoft SQL server database/ data warehouse;
  • I work as a data analyst and pull data from our different servers. But I always wanted to learn what goes into the back end of creating a database, implementing the security, etc so I need to learn how to do this. My database will be interfacing directly with Python IDEs, as well as C++ applications I will be developing for fun (e.g., financial reporting system). Can't imagine it ever being larger than like 100 GB with maybe 3 or 4 different schemas lol
• Be able to host my own applications I create - e.g., financial reporting system that other people can access in my household; and
• Plex media server. Tired of running long HDMI cables to my big tv in the living room to play movies.

In addition, I want the server to:

• Run as efficiently (defined as speed and lightweight) as possible. So if I need to install a Linux distro like Ubuntu because Linux is generally more light weight and has less bloatware than Windows, then I am all for that;
• Have some sort of back up system in place in case of HDD or hardware failures; and
• Have some kind of case that make this slimmer than a full tower - I imagine the GPU will not be necessary because I can just use a Remote Desktop software. Are there "slim cases" or some DYI solution?

 

Is my goal too lofty? I don't know where to start when setting this all up, so if there are some reputable detailed resources out there, please direct me.

 

Thanks.

TN9.

[Sjaakie]

I would definitely recommend Linux for a home server since you're open to it and willing to learn. Ubuntu server is a fine starting point. There is so much great open source software that you are able to use with linux if you're wiling to get comfortable with the command line (https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted)

 

You can install your programs right into the OS but docker can be really useful to easily deploy apps (like plex / jellyfin server) and tinker with it.

 

For backups there are a bunch of options. Rsync is popular, borgbackup is also really good. I recommend to do an encrypted offsite backup beside a local backup.

 

You can take out the gpu indeed, though you need an igpu in the cpu / dedicated gpu for remote desktop. For server admin you don't necessarily need that and can just remote in with SSH. A gpu may also be useful for plex transcoding.

 

[TechNoob9]

52 minutes ago, Sjaakie said:

I would definitely recommend Linux for a home server since you're open to it and willing to learn. Ubuntu server is a fine starting point. There is so much great open source software that you are able to use with linux if you're wiling to get comfortable with the command line (https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted)

I assume command line the most "light weight"/ fastest version of Linux or any OS?

 

You can install your programs right into the OS but docker can be really useful to easily deploy apps (like plex / jellyfin server) and tinker with it.

From doing a bit of research, it seems like it's software that "pushes" installs to a target machine? Kind of what my IT department does for monthly security updates, software, etc?

 

For backups there are a bunch of options. Rsync is popular, borgbackup is also really good. I recommend to do an encrypted offsite backup beside a local backup.

Two questions here: 1) Do I need a dedicated HDD or SSD for the implementation of each above idea? Like 1 for data warehouse, 1 for media server, 1 for applications/os? 2) I keep coming across RAID. Does this apply here?

 

You can take out the gpu indeed, though you need an igpu in the cpu / dedicated gpu for remote desktop. For server admin you don't necessarily need that and can just remote in with SSH. A gpu may also be useful for plex transcoding.

I need to look into how Plex actually works. But I don't think I will be converting say a .mp3 to another format. Or like 1080p/4k to another format?

 

 

35 minutes ago, oofki said:

MSSQL doesn’t run on Linux, so you’d have to run a VM for that.  

I have no clue about OS/network/SQL admin/Linux stuff (Other than installing Ubuntu on very old machines back in the day for kicks). So apologies on the lack of knowledge here... But according to here, there are Linux OSs that support MSSQL. Is this something different?

[LIGISTX]

3 hours ago, TechNoob9 said:

Hi everyone,

 

First time poster. Been following Linus since his beginning with NCIX. Huge fan of his YT channel, and saw his video on turning a pc into a server.

 

A friend is going to be giving me his old DDR3 PC build. I don't have the specs yet, but the board is a full ATX, has 16GB of RAM, a 1 TB HDD, and the CPU is an i5 series with windows 10. Willing to upgrade as necessary (e.g., add additional HDD for back ups, SSD for speed, etc).

 

I never created a local server before, so this is part of the fun. I want to know if this PC I will be receiving can be turned into a server that can meet the following needs:

• Able to hold a Microsoft SQL server database/ data warehouse;
  • I work as a data analyst and pull data from our different servers. But I always wanted to learn what goes into the back end of creating a database, implementing the security, etc so I need to learn how to do this. My database will be interfacing directly with Python IDEs, as well as C++ applications I will be developing for fun (e.g., financial reporting system). Can't imagine it ever being larger than like 100 GB with maybe 3 or 4 different schemas lol
• Be able to host my own applications I create - e.g., financial reporting system that other people can access in my household; and
• Plex media server. Tired of running long HDMI cables to my big tv in the living room to play movies.

In addition, I want the server to:

• Run as efficiently (defined as speed and lightweight) as possible. So if I need to install a Linux distro like Ubuntu because Linux is generally more light weight and has less bloatware than Windows, then I am all for that;
• Have some sort of back up system in place in case of HDD or hardware failures; and
• Have some kind of case that make this slimmer than a full tower - I imagine the GPU will not be necessary because I can just use a Remote Desktop software. Are there "slim cases" or some DYI solution?

 

Is my goal too lofty? I don't know where to start when setting this all up, so if there are some reputable detailed resources out there, please direct me.

 

Thanks.

TN9.

Look into proxmox. Use that as your hypervisor and then create VM’s for whatever services you need, including NAS. 
 

Id start looking into what proxmox is, then look into virtualizing truenas. Virtualizing linux or windows VM’s is super easy so those are less of a learning curve to worry about, truenas just requires some thought as there are multiple ways to go about it; I recommend getting an HBA and passing that entire PCIe device through proxmox to truenas. 

[TechNoob9]

9 hours ago, LIGISTX said:

Look into proxmox. Use that as your hypervisor and then create VM’s for whatever services you need, including NAS. 
 

Id start looking into what proxmox is, then look into virtualizing truenas. Virtualizing linux or windows VM’s is super easy so those are less of a learning curve to worry about, truenas just requires some thought as there are multiple ways to go about it; I recommend getting an HBA and passing that entire PCIe device through proxmox to truenas. 

Why VMs/Truenas vs just simply having people in my household connect to the server directly?

[ToboRobot]

Don't try and do everything all at once.

When you get the computer, start setting up one thing.  Maybe you want to focus on Windows and your work research, or maybe you want to install Ubuntu and setup a media serve first, and then think about how to back things up.

But rather than plan and then try to assemble the perfect system that does everything, do it slowly in stages and really learn how things are working.

[LIGISTX]

2 hours ago, TechNoob9 said:

Why VMs/Truenas vs just simply having people in my household connect to the server directly?

Proxmox is a hypervisor, you instal virtual machines on that. This way, you can have whatever operating system you need for whatever software or task needs it, all running at the same time. 
 

Instead of only having windows or only have linux running, run both at once, plus many other things such as a NAS.

 

If this is your first time hearing of virtualization, I would do a good bit of research before you jump in and try it. It’s not difficult, but there will be a learning curve and it’s worth it to try and mentally work through some of it before trying. 

[Sjaakie]

 

 

22 hours ago, TechNoob9 said:

I would definitely recommend Linux for a home server since you're open to it and willing to learn. Ubuntu server is a fine starting point. There is so much great open source software that you are able to use with linux if you're wiling to get comfortable with the command line (https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted)

I assume command line the most "light weight"/ fastest version of Linux or any OS?

 

You can install your programs right into the OS but docker can be really useful to easily deploy apps (like plex / jellyfin server) and tinker with it.

From doing a bit of research, it seems like it's software that "pushes" installs to a target machine? Kind of what my IT department does for monthly security updates, software, etc?

 

For backups there are a bunch of options. Rsync is popular, borgbackup is also really good. I recommend to do an encrypted offsite backup beside a local backup.

Two questions here: 1) Do I need a dedicated HDD or SSD for the implementation of each above idea? Like 1 for data warehouse, 1 for media server, 1 for applications/os? 2) I keep coming across RAID. Does this apply here?

 

You can take out the gpu indeed, though you need an igpu in the cpu / dedicated gpu for remote desktop. For server admin you don't necessarily need that and can just remote in with SSH. A gpu may also be useful for plex transcoding.

I need to look into how Plex actually works. But I don't think I will be converting say a .mp3 to another format. Or like 1080p/4k to another format?

 

 

Command line without desktop interface is very lightweight indeed.

 

Docker doesn't push software, just really easy to use precompiled images from trusted sources to run anything without the hassle of dependencies.

 

No you can do all on 1 disk. But better run a seperate disk for local backup. Raid is a seperate issue.

 

Transcoding is on the fly recoding of video's. It's very resource heavy. If you need it just add a modern gpu later.

 

10 hours ago, ToboRobot said:

Don't try and do everything all at once.

When you get the computer, start setting up one thing.  Maybe you want to focus on Windows and your work research, or maybe you want to install Ubuntu and setup a media serve first, and then think about how to back things up.

But rather than plan and then try to assemble the perfect system that does everything, do it slowly in stages and really learn how things are working.

 

 

This is probably the best advice. Theres so many possible things and ways you can do stuff, it makes sense to just start with installing an os and try to figure it out from there.

[TechNoob9]

11 hours ago, LIGISTX said:

Proxmox is a hypervisor, you instal virtual machines on that. This way, you can have whatever operating system you need for whatever software or task needs it, all running at the same time. 
 

Instead of only having windows or only have linux running, run both at once, plus many other things such as a NAS.

 

If this is your first time hearing of virtualization, I would do a good bit of research before you jump in and try it. It’s not difficult, but there will be a learning curve and it’s worth it to try and mentally work through some of it before trying. 

I guess what I am having a hard time understand is the difference between a VM, container, and NAS. VM seems to be what I want, but I have been reading that the current paradigm is shifting to containers. But I can't seem to understand why!

 

NAS seems like a regular server dedicated to file storage. Seems like I can just set up a VM that contains a NAS?

[LIGISTX]

4 hours ago, TechNoob9 said:

I guess what I am having a hard time understand is the difference between a VM, container, and NAS. VM seems to be what I want, but I have been reading that the current paradigm is shifting to containers. But I can't seem to understand why!

 

NAS seems like a regular server dedicated to file storage. Seems like I can just set up a VM that contains a NAS?

You are correct on all accounts, doing better then you are giving yourself credit for at learning lol. 
 

A NAS is just something that stores data and shares it out via the network. My NAS, which runs on truenas as it’s OS, is virtualized under proxmox. I have a few Ubuntu VM’s, home assistant, some other stuff. One of the Ubuntu VM’s has Plex installed, another had lots of docker containers.

 

Containers are great because they are flexible, portable, super easy so spin up and upgrade, and just “easy”. Some things are great in continents, some things you would want a full fat OS. So don’t get hung up on which is better; they both serve a purpose. 
 

Proxmox also supports LXC containers which are basically little “spin offs” of proxmox itself, the containers share a kernel with the proxmox host so they don’t need to have all their own “heavy” OS; they sorta piggy back on proxmox. That’s a different type of container, but I have some of those deployed as well for certain things. Again, something’s will work ok in that environment, other applications will not. So it just sorta depends what you need where.

 

Keep reading up on stuff, it’ll start to be a little less confusing. Then once you start playing with it all, it’ll be a little less confusing again, and after a few years of having a homelab, you will sort of know what you are doing…. sometimes. Lol. 
 

I should note… my virtual NAS (and all VM’s) have virtual networking. So I share SMB shares out over the virtual network interface to other physical devices (my PC, nvidia shield for Plex, etc) as well as the other VM’s and containers. They all work just like they were physical devices, all have their own MAC address and thus get an IP address, so you do networking all the same as you normally would. But VM’s can talk across the virtual network only since they don’t have to talk over a physical cable, and virtIO lan drivers are super fast, so you basically get 10gigabit virtual networking which is a cool bonus of VM’s. Not that your VM’s need to talk to each other this fast, but it’s just cool to know. 

[TechNoob9]

16 hours ago, LIGISTX said:

You are correct on all accounts, doing better then you are giving yourself credit for at learning lol. 
 

A NAS is just something that stores data and shares it out via the network. My NAS, which runs on truenas as it’s OS, is virtualized under proxmox. I have a few Ubuntu VM’s, home assistant, some other stuff. One of the Ubuntu VM’s has Plex installed, another had lots of docker containers.

 

Containers are great because they are flexible, portable, super easy so spin up and upgrade, and just “easy”. Some things are great in continents, some things you would want a full fat OS. So don’t get hung up on which is better; they both serve a purpose. 
 

Proxmox also supports LXC containers which are basically little “spin offs” of proxmox itself, the containers share a kernel with the proxmox host so they don’t need to have all their own “heavy” OS; they sorta piggy back on proxmox. That’s a different type of container, but I have some of those deployed as well for certain things. Again, something’s will work ok in that environment, other applications will not. So it just sorta depends what you need where.

 

Keep reading up on stuff, it’ll start to be a little less confusing. Then once you start playing with it all, it’ll be a little less confusing again, and after a few years of having a homelab, you will sort of know what you are doing…. sometimes. Lol. 
 

I should note… my virtual NAS (and all VM’s) have virtual networking. So I share SMB shares out over the virtual network interface to other physical devices (my PC, nvidia shield for Plex, etc) as well as the other VM’s and containers. They all work just like they were physical devices, all have their own MAC address and thus get an IP address, so you do networking all the same as you normally would. But VM’s can talk across the virtual network only since they don’t have to talk over a physical cable, and virtIO lan drivers are super fast, so you basically get 10gigabit virtual networking which is a cool bonus of VM’s. Not that your VM’s need to talk to each other this fast, but it’s just cool to know. 

Yeah, it's very interesting!

 

With Proxmox, can I have one small SSD that has all my operating systems and key applications installed - Ubuntu, Windows 10, Proxmox, etc and still make a a Ubuntu VM, a Windows 10 VM, etc? Or does each VM need (or should?) have its own dedicated drive?

[WkdPaul]

With the description of the hardware (i5 with DDR3) means you'll have little room to play with (4 cores for a hypervisor is useless IMO).

 

You could see if you can get a cheap i7 for that generation and look to get to 32gb of RAM (used DDR3 is VERY cheap), with 8 cores you'll have room to breathe and might be able to experiment.

 

My home server is a i7 3770 with 32gb of DDR3 and I'm running Win10 with everything in Docker containers, and it's close to it's max (it's used as a NAS, media server, VPN server, home automation server, torrent box, network controller (DHCP & DNS) and a few things I'm sure I'm forgetting).

[TechNoob9]

1 hour ago, WkdPaul said:

With the description of the hardware (i5 with DDR3) means you'll have little room to play with (4 cores for a hypervisor is useless IMO).

 

You could see if you can get a cheap i7 for that generation and look to get to 32gb of RAM (used DDR3 is VERY cheap), with 8 cores you'll have room to breathe and might be able to experiment.

 

My home server is a i7 3770 with 32gb of DDR3 and I'm running Win10 with everything in Docker containers, and it's close to it's max (it's used as a NAS, media server, VPN server, home automation server, torrent box, network controller (DHCP & DNS) and a few things I'm sure I'm forgetting).

 

Ah. thanks for the advice. We'll see what the exact specs are when I get it. But it seems that the i7 would likely still be 4 cores.

 

So tempting to buy a cheap B450M mobo and RAM to go with my old Ryzen 5 2600 CPU. But those boards are still expensive for previous gen, and I am curious how cheap I can get this (so far, it's $0 lol).

[WkdPaul]

5 minutes ago, TechNoob9 said:

 

Ah. thanks for the advice. We'll see what the exact specs are when I get it. But it seems that the i7 would likely still be 4 cores.

 

So tempting to buy a cheap B450M mobo and RAM to go with my old Ryzen 5 2600 CPU. But those boards are still expensive for previous gen, and I am curious how cheap I can get this (so far, it's $0 lol).

Sorry, I meant 8 threads, it makes a difference

[WkdPaul]

8 minutes ago, oofki said:

Not on topic, but is there an advantage to running your one DHCP server like that?

I have "prosumer" equipment, 1 router, 3 switches and 2 AP, they're all controlled through the server.

 

I have mesh wifi on my 3 floors and I can update my device's firmware from my phone.

 

I can easily reserve IPs, block devices, have my IoT on a separate virtual network, so if there's a security issue, my PCs aren't on the same network.

 

There's more (dynamic DNS, VPN from my router, firewall with lots of logs and network data, etc..)

 

It's overkill ... But I'm a sysadmin, I can't stop myself from using this stuff!

[LIGISTX]

6 hours ago, TechNoob9 said:

Yeah, it's very interesting!

 

With Proxmox, can I have one small SSD that has all my operating systems and key applications installed - Ubuntu, Windows 10, Proxmox, etc and still make a a Ubuntu VM, a Windows 10 VM, etc? Or does each VM need (or should?) have its own dedicated drive?

Proxmox gets installed as the main OS, then yes, you can instal all your other VM’s on that same drive. You do it all via proxmox webUI. I’d start looking at YouTube videos to get a better understanding   

 

4 hours ago, WkdPaul said:

With the description of the hardware (i5 with DDR3) means you'll have little room to play with (4 cores for a hypervisor is useless IMO).

 

You could see if you can get a cheap i7 for that generation and look to get to 32gb of RAM (used DDR3 is VERY cheap), with 8 cores you'll have room to breathe and might be able to experiment.

 

My home server is a i7 3770 with 32gb of DDR3 and I'm running Win10 with everything in Docker containers, and it's close to it's max (it's used as a NAS, media server, VPN server, home automation server, torrent box, network controller (DHCP & DNS) and a few things I'm sure I'm forgetting).

I can not disagree more. I ran my homelab for years on an i3 6100 (2 core 4 thread chip, and it never broke a sweat. ESXi was my hypervisor, VM’s consisted of:

truenas

3x Ubuntu server

Windows LTSC

home assistant

UniFi controller

NUT

I had almost a dozen docker containers, one of which was pihole

One of the ubuntu servers hosted a Plex server

 

CPU was typically below 20%, rarely jumping over 50%…
 

You can do a lot more with a quad core then most people realize. I only had 28GB of RAM which was my limitation. That’s what drove me to Xeon…. Now I have 128GB of RAM and literally more threads then I know what to do with. My Xeon rarely even hits double digits CPU usage.

 

Im not saying an i7 isn’t a fine idea, I’m just saying 4 cores for a homelab goes a lot farther then most people need. 

[Polderviking]

On 6/19/2023 at 1:37 AM, oofki said:

MSSQL doesn’t run on Linux, so you’d have to run a VM for that.  

MSSQL definately runs on Linux.

[WkdPaul]

6 hours ago, LIGISTX said:

I can not disagree more. I ran my homelab for years on an i3 6100 (2 core 4 thread chip, and it never broke a sweat. ESXi was my hypervisor, VM’s consisted of:

truenas

3x Ubuntu server

Windows LTSC

home assistant

UniFi controller

NUT

I had almost a dozen docker containers, one of which was pihole

One of the ubuntu servers hosted a Plex server

 

CPU was typically below 20%, rarely jumping over 50%…
 

You can do a lot more with a quad core then most people realize. I only had 28GB of RAM which was my limitation. That’s what drove me to Xeon…. Now I have 128GB of RAM and literally more threads then I know what to do with. My Xeon rarely even hits double digits CPU usage.

 

Im not saying an i7 isn’t a fine idea, I’m just saying 4 cores for a homelab goes a lot farther then most people need. 

I know excessive overprovisioning is fine to some extent, but I never felt comfortable with it.

[LIGISTX]

2 hours ago, WkdPaul said:

I know excessive overprovisioning is fine to some extent, but I never felt comfortable with it.

That isn’t really over provisioning, CPU resources can be split up as much as you need. For the longest time, most consumers only had 4 cores and 8 threads, and most folks had orders of magnitude more processes running then threads to run them on. Virtualization is no different… 

 

What you do run into is RAM issues. It don’t want to over allocate RAM. Balloon drivers help this, but you still don’t want to get to crazy. 
 

But most workloads for home users are pretty light weight, so CPU usually isn’t much of an impact.