WWDC 2023: What to expect (READ FOR UPDATE)

[leadeater]

6 minutes ago, Obioban said:

Seems a bit silly. I’ve been consistently pleased with my Apple product experiences for 30 years. I’ve been consistently annoyed with Facebook for 20 years. Apple has earned the benefit of the doubt, at least for me.

That is fine and I do tend to agree with that as well, said as much already more than once, however the above demonstrations by someone is not benefit of the doubt. It's not like I've said the Vision Pro is going to be a failure but I have criticized some of the use cases shown, the lack of detail and point out past problems with similar devices and fundamental issues around putting on a headset. None of this I think is all that unfair yet for whatever reason someone is taking it all far too personally, quite needlessly. 

 

It's literally not for them to worry about nor can they change anything about what I have said or the concerns I have, only Apple can do that or market reaction to the actual device when it's available. Face value, heh, the device is excellent but a good device is not enough.

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, saltycaramel said:

ARE YOU GETTING IT?

THESE ARE NOT FOUR SEPARATE DEVICES!

THIS IS ONE DEVICE!

No because what you said is a nothing meaningless marketing pitch, as you may have noticed I don't care about no substance nothingness, not even a little bit.

 

Your 4 points are not a vision, at all. It's hot air. Come back when you have an iPhone presentation or literally don't bother at all. If you can't provide that, which you cannot, then you only have 2 choices. Wait for a later different Apple presentation or wait for availability.

 

P.S. You don't bring people together by constantly showing a person alone in a room sitting on a couch. If it's profound to be alone to be together then that isn't new, people literally sit next to each other talking on IG/Snap/FB etc rather than turn and face each other and talk. But who knows maybe the future is everyone with VR headsets on sitting alone, maybe that is the new "together".

[leadeater]

23 minutes ago, Obioban said:

I also don’t understand the killer app complaint. What is the killer app that comes with windows? What is the killer app that comes with iOS?

 

I’d say none, for either— they’re platforms that people make software for, and what software is meaningful to use depends on your use case.

I never said there needs to be "a killer app". I know someone else did but that wasn't me. But anyway that is actually the point. I'd like to see more applications shown and I'd like to see them shown actually being used, not static images of the application running, that's just simply not good enough of a demonstration.

 

I simply want to see more substantial demonstrations of the device being used. Not a big ask really. Maybe it's the wrong conference to be asking for it but none the less it's something I want to see. 

[Paul Thexton]

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

But who knows maybe the future is everyone with VR headsets one sitting alone, maybe that is the new "together".

I mean that’s what Zuck’s vision appears to be.

 

His comments post Apple keynote about Apple showing people sat alone on a sofa is literally no different to his vision of people interacting in The Sims as far as I can perceive.

 

Anything that covers somebody’s eyes/face automatically has the effect of them announcing to anyone nearby that their focus isn’t on human interaction. Going to have to wait and see whether Apple’s solution to that with the front facing screen is actually effective or not.

[saltycaramel]

10 minutes ago, leadeater said:

I simply want to see more substantial demonstrations of the device being used. Not a big ask really. Maybe it's the wrong conference to be asking for it but none the less it's something I want to see. 

 

- wrong conference

- wrong era (the old Apple live events era vs the new era of perfect&packed&fast_paced recorded Apple events)

- different type of device (not as easy to actually show what's going on in a meaningful way, compared to iPhone and iPad)

 

You're too rigid in your thinking if you don't take these differences into account and you expect a 1:1 copy of the iPhone introduction.

Be more elastic, times have changed and devices are different.

[leadeater]

11 minutes ago, saltycaramel said:

Be more elastic

Take your own advice. Like it or not Apple did a very poor job and showing the device off, they might do it better later but I'm not going to be bouncing off the walls in excitement and 10kg of sugar like well... you know 

 

I'm underwhelmed, it's ok. 

 

11 minutes ago, saltycaramel said:

- wrong era (the old Apple live events era vs the new era of perfect&packed&fast_paced recorded Apple events)

err

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Apple_Inc._media_events

 

Apple managed a full 40 minutes on the, not new platform, Apple Watch during the Apple Event September 2022

 

11 minutes ago, saltycaramel said:

1:1 copy of the iPhone introduction.

No I expect equal effort and equal amount of detail, seems they could do it for the Apple Watch.

[saltycaramel]

24 minutes ago, leadeater said:

P.S. You don't bring people together by constantly showing a person alone in a room sitting on a couch. If it's profound to be alone to be together then that isn't new, people literally sit next to each other talking on IG/Snap/FB etc rather than turn and face each other and talk. But who knows maybe the future is everyone with VR headsets on sitting alone, maybe that is the new "together".

 

Zuckerberg wants to force users into his vision of the future: "you will meet in the metaverse and you will like it, believe me! It's my vision!"

 

Apple facilitates your existing habits, no judgement on Apple's part.

People already often meet remotely. It's a thing of modern life.

Apple is making meeting people remotely a new (profound!..) kind of experience within the new spatial computing paradigm.  

[saltycaramel]

10 minutes ago, leadeater said:

err

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Apple_Inc._media_events

 

Apple managed a full 40 minutes on the, not new platform, Apple Watch during the Apple Event September 2022

 

The age of live Apple events is over, for good probably.

You focused on the the "packed, fast paced" part but the "live" part is just as relevant.

In recorded events doing the "we're testing it live on stage in front of you, no safety wheels! Anything could happen!" shtick would make little sense. You'd probably be the first to point it out!

[saltycaramel]

I'd be very worried for the future of Apple if they hadn't evolved their way of introducing products since 2007.

With all due respect to Steve Jobs and armchair marketing experts.

[hishnash]

23 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Take your own advice. Like it or not Apple did a very poor job and showing the device off, they might do it better later but I'm not going to be bouncing off the walls in excitement and 10kg of sugar like well... you know 

 

This was WWDC the real showing off of the device happens when they are ready to take orders.  No point getting you 10kg supper hyped now when you cant $$$ and risk you being immune to that sugar hype later. 

[leadeater]

22 minutes ago, saltycaramel said:

 

The age of live Apple events is over, for good probably.

You focused on the the "packed, fast paced" part but the "live" part is just as relevant.

In recorded events doing the "we're testing it live on stage in front of you, no safety wheels! Anything could happen!" shtick would make little sense. You'd probably be the first to point it out!

What are you talking about? Apple Event September 2022 is that..

 

Yes like I said and will repeat managed a full 40 minutes on the Apple Watch.

 

Did I say show it live? No, stop assuming. Look up things told to you and know what you are speaking of.

 

If you have something actually worth while to talk and discuss then you're welcome to do so, the current stuff I won't past here.

[saltycaramel]

10 minutes ago, leadeater said:

What are you talking about? Apple Event September 2022 is that..

 

Yes like I said and will repeat managed a full 40 minutes on the Apple Watch.

 

Did I say show it live? No, stop assuming. Look up things told to you and know what you are speaking of.

 

So you want so hard to see it demonstrated in its minute usage details on stage but you're ok for it to be recorded, hence potentially altered in post-production. You sure have a lot of trust in Apple! I thought you were a skeptic doubting the reports from tens of tech journalists about the closed door headset demo...and now you're telling me you'd fall for a doctored recorded Apple video demo..

[saltycaramel]

16 minutes ago, hishnash said:

This was WWDC the real showing off of the device happens when they are ready to take orders.  No point getting you 10kg supper hyped now when you cant $$$ and risk you being immune to that sugar hype later. 

 

Guess I'll double dip in hype

 

WWDC made my hyped about the crazy good fundamentals. (but they also announced the partnership with Disney, that's not platform fundamentals, it's specific content)

 

The consumer launch event will hype me about some specific activities.

 

Plenty of reasons to be hyped for both events

[saltycaramel]

10 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

 

 

The strong point of VR headsets - immersion in games or other content - wasn't even discussed. The only game they showed was NBA - on a virtual screen. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

Fake news!

 

“4) and a magical way to be immersed in entertainment”

 

“4) and a magical way to be immersed in entertainment”

 

“4) and a magical way to be immersed in entertainment”

 

Are you getting it??

[saltycaramel]

1 hour ago, HenrySalayne said:

The strong point of VR headsets - immersion in games or other content -

 

 

The strong point according to HenrySalayne and according to companies selling crappy low-res headsets at a fake subsidized price, headsets that are quickly left in a drawer to take dust in most cases. 

 

Not necessarily according to Apple and their AR-first spatial computing headset. 

[saltycaramel]

This headset is so good in terms of hw/sw execution that skeptics had to resort to 

- armchair-splaning Apple how to market it and price it

- “won’t somebody please think of the children and daddy’s special helmet”

- “people will be alone on a couch, is this the future we want??” (they write this on a forum alone from a couch)

- neglecting what has been actually said and explained (with various degrees of depth, of course then 9min consumer video and the hours of developer sessions have a different focus) by Apple about the headset

- “I’m not ever calling it AR, it’s a VR headset”

 

What a time to be alive.

If these are the hottest controversies, this headset must be doing something really right. 

[saltycaramel]

Just now, HenrySalayne said:

Maybe I missed it. Can you give me the timestamp at which they showed PoV games or content in the WWDC keynote?

 

It was not a gimmicky keynote in which to throw everything but the kitchen sink and confuse consumers about the headset being yet another alienating VR headset, I applaud Apple for the restraint shown in not randomly throwing in a PoV game session.

 

On the other hand, when regular clueless consumers aren’t looking, I’ve already pointed you to the relevant WWDC sessions in the screenshot above. 

[saltycaramel]

35 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

So you are intentionally misrepresenting it and you admit Apple didn't show any immersive VR content in their WWDC keynote? Great!

 

1:39:05 - “this is just the start of how gaming will evolve on Vision Pro”

 

1:43:20 - Disney will share more about their immersive experiences in the coming months

 

Oh boy, can’t wait!

 

Good for Apple for keeping it lean and clear with the consumer messaging at this stage of first contact: the nature of the headset is AR-first. 

 

But as I’ve already told you (are you deaf? ) there are WWDC sessions explaining how to make immersive VR games, and VR game devs are discussing it abundantly on twitter. 

[hishnash]

The headset absolutly supports full emersion mode.  

Intact there are 3 modes that devs can support for full emersion:

1) cinematic mode (this was shown in the keynote) were an app can have one or more 2.5D windows and volumes but also it can replace the outs space with a larger volume. (I believe apple also provide volumes here if you don't want to bring your own) This space also supports app mutli tasking as well.

2) full emersion using RealityKit: this is a high level Object/Shader Graph game-engine like api were devs place objects in 3d space set material property and other physics etc states and the engine runs it, handles projection, fovrated rendering etc. 

3) Custom Metal emersion mode: in this state dev runs a custom metal rendering they provide (or the game engine they are using like unity or unreal provide) the engine her is responsible for spacial transform using ARKit apis to track device location etc and it is responsible for setting up witch render targets should be formatted (render targets that are from the users perspective). 

[actually-light]

3 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

It's not application as in "this one piece of software" but as in "what you do with it".

New technology has to add or improve something to have a chance in the market. Apple has certainly shown things you can do with the vision headset. But if you boil it down, their entire sales pitch was "it's a virtual screen" and "you can record videos in the most cringe way imaginable" (IMHO not a feature). The strong point of VR headsets - immersion in games or other content - wasn't even discussed. The only game they showed was NBA - on a virtual screen. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Their sales pitch is that spatial computing is the future of how we interact with technology. They effectively demonstrated the headset replacing every single screen in your life. Home theater? Of course. PC? It runs office tasks just fine. iPad? Easily. Phone? Well, it supports facetime and in a few years I wouldn't be surprised to see one with longer battery and cellular. 

 

IMO VR's focus on gaming has been actively harmful to mainstream adoption. Being entirely isolated from the real world isn't something that I actually want most of the time, especially not if there are other people around.

 

And what do you mean camera isn't a feature? Do you think modern social media would even work without phone cameras? If the vision pro has a competent 180 degree camera array the opportunities for adult content alone will be revolutionary.

[leadeater]

7 hours ago, saltycaramel said:

Are you getting it??

Do you even watch the videos you link? I don think you do since the last time I asked for examples of user usage and interaction you linked a bunch of developer videos that shows the creation process of the UI and none of the things being talked about in the discussion.

 

No I have not watched those either, but given your track record of last time I'm willing to bet they aren't applicable.

 

For "User success stories" it's not typically a good idea to link a bunch of developer focused videos.

12 hours ago, saltycaramel said:

So you want so hard to see it demonstrated in its minute usage details on stage but you're ok for it to be recorded, hence potentially altered in post-production. You sure have a lot of trust in Apple! I thought you were a skeptic doubting the reports from tens of tech journalists about the closed door headset demo...and now you're telling me you'd fall for a doctored recorded Apple video demo..

If you're going to be like that you can take a quick exit out the door and never speak to me again. Clear?

 

Now if you are willing to abide by common decency and respect of the conversation then we may continue, otherwise not.

 

Why would I ask multiple times for a proper product demonstration, give multiple Apple examples of these if I'm not even going to bother to be receptive to them. I could have said this very thing about this keynote but I didn't did I? Pull your head in.

[MageTank]

13 hours ago, saltycaramel said:

So you want so hard to see it demonstrated in its minute usage details on stage but you're ok for it to be recorded, hence potentially altered in post-production. You sure have a lot of trust in Apple! I thought you were a skeptic doubting the reports from tens of tech journalists about the closed door headset demo...and now you're telling me you'd fall for a doctored recorded Apple video demo..

I think you might be misunderstanding the point here. Let's use gaming as an example. Companies like to show off these amazing pre-rendered cutscenes that are not indicative of the actual gameplay for their product. While the cutscenes are lovely, gamers at the end of the day want to see real gameplay. The same goes for this product. 

 

Also, if it were done on-stage, less of a chance for Apple to fake it, given people would likely be recording the event themselves too. Before you mention phones being banned, never underestimate the power of a prison wallet.

[saltycaramel]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

If you're going to be like that you can take a quick exit out the door and never speak to me again. Clear?

 

Now if you are willing to abide by common decency and respect of the conversation then we may continue, otherwise not.

 

Why would I ask multiple times for a proper product demonstration, give multiple Apple examples of these if I'm not even going to bother to be receptive to them. I could have said this very thing about this keynote but I didn't did I? Pull your head in.

 

I’m dead serious: what would a recorded and edited “proper product demonstration” from

Apple’s marketing team accomplish exactly, if you’re not even willing to believe (“I see no evidence”) reports from independent journalists demoing the actual product? 

 

You can’t always talk your way out of the incoherent or plain wrong (see discounting vehemently the VR-headset-as-an-AR-device idea before the unveiling and discounting eye tracking, “ask the immobile”, “reality is not movies”) stuff you say.

 

You should have the decency to say “I was wrong” every now and then, instead of always finding a cheap way out. 

[saltycaramel]

25 minutes ago, MageTank said:

 

Also, if it were done on-stage, less of a chance for Apple to fake it, given people would likely be recording the event themselves too.

 

Events are 100% recorded these days.

 

The only on-stage part is “Welcome! Let’s start the video and watch it together!”. Nothing else in on-stage. No actual demonstration to record independently.

[MageTank]

4 minutes ago, saltycaramel said:

 

Events are 100% recorded these days.

 

The only on-stage part is “Welcome! Let’s start the video and watch it together!”. Nothing else in on-stage. No actual demonstration to record independently.

Ask Elon if he recorded that Tesla window demonstration, lol.