WWDC 2023: What to expect (READ FOR UPDATE)

[saltycaramel]

You people wanted Tim Cook to pull a Zuckerberg-circa-fall-2021 and pontificate about his grand vision about the far fetched future. That's a vision without a product.

 

But Apple is about doing, not promising.

Almost everything shown (with exception of the EyeSight eyes) was ready to be experienced (albeit in a controlled demo) by tens of external guests that same day.

 

Apple "doesn't have any interest" in your free advice about how to introduce and market a product..they must be doing something right if they are where they are...occasionally also something wrong, but I tend not to buy into the clickbait drama and manufactured outrage news outlets make a living on...nothing wrong to me about temporarily wearing the headset at birthday parties to record a spatial video, just like dads would temporarily hold encumbering camcorders in the 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s before the age of cameraphones..

[leadeater]

19 minutes ago, saltycaramel said:

You people wanted Tim Cook to pull a Zuckerberg-circa-fall-2021 and pontificate about his grand vision about the far fetched future. That's a vision without a product.

 

But Apple is about doing, not promising.

No, we clearly have said we want an iPhone presentation, something with proper substance with actual demonstrations of the device being used that actually show it's real usefulness.

 

Never say "you people" then go on to say your own statements, your own opinions of what we want or have said in total and complete ignorance of what we have said. Thank you but no, that is not your place to do either.

 

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

1 hour 20 of talking about one single device, the iPhone with long detailed examples of usages and applications, comparison to other market devices. The iPhone keynote had both substance and human enthusiasm (Jobs was just a better speaker/presenter )

This is what i said, not your above falsehood.

 

19 minutes ago, saltycaramel said:

Almost everything shown (with exception of the EyeSight eyes) was ready to be experienced

Yea all those windows of static applications not being used was real convincing. Give me a time stamp of the keynote where an application was actually being used, NBA game not allowed.

 

https://youtu.be/GYkq9Rgoj8E?t=5497 (wow they reacted to a message in Messages, very compelling demo)

 

19 minutes ago, saltycaramel said:

occasionally also something wrong

Apple Vision Pro? 

 

19 minutes ago, saltycaramel said:

just like dads would temporarily hold encumbering camcorders in the 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s before the age of cameraphones..

That was also bad, ridiculed and laughed at too. Not a good comparison

 

19 minutes ago, saltycaramel said:

but I tend not to buy into the clickbait drama and manufactured outrage news outlets make a living on

There has literally been zero "click bait drama" about the Vision Pro. I haven't seen a single big negative article about it and I neither used Reddit or other such places. But what you seem to do, very well, is buy in to Apple marketing. Is it so wrong others find it much less convincing? 

[saltycaramel]

Looks like capturing those moments on video was deemed worth it by dads around the world and made the ridicule bearable back then...once today's dads experience those spatial videos and realize they're as close to a time machine as it gets, they'll happily bear the ridicule once again..

 

Apple's marketing team needed to communicate: "This is our first 3D camera".

Leveraging the powerful dad-children connection was a good call. But if you people have better ideas...I don't know, recording birds during a birdwatching session or something...so relatable and emotionally charged..

[leadeater]

5 minutes ago, saltycaramel said:

Looks like capturing those moments on video was deemed worth it by dads around the world and made the ridicule bearable back then...once today's dads experience those spatial videos and realize they're as close to a time machine as it gets, they'll happily bear the ridicule once again..

Yes but it's not like lots were actually going it, cost and because of other people's objections to it was well. "Put down the bloody camera" was a real thing.

 

Also I'm not the only one pointing this out

 

The entire section on the Vision Pro is good, but this time stamp is just perfect for what we are talking about now.

[saltycaramel]

22 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Yea all those windows of static applications not being used was real convincing. Give me a time stamp of the keynote where an application was actually being used

 

A lot more can be seen in the WWDC sessions:

 

https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=cj1fjit2

[leadeater]

15 minutes ago, saltycaramel said:

A lot more can be seen in the WWDC sessions:

 

https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=cj1fjit2

Not seeing much relating to what I was talking about though? These are all great for developers but they aren't really showing someone using the device with the applications etc.

 

Design for spatial user interfaces & Meet SwiftUI for spatial computing are interesting but really not showing user interaction using the device with the applications. Lots of images of user interfaces with design advice and showing what happens in situations etc but still all mostly the same issue.

 

To give you an idea, something like opening up Mail, scrolling through emails, selecting one, selecting reply, entering a message and sending it. Some actual user based user interaction with the device and an application.

[saltycaramel]

I’m learning about an alternate reality where home recordings were “terrible” (instead of cherished, whatever the quality) and dads would be constantly screamed at to “put down that damn camera”, maybe my household and my general surroundings were weird, thanks guys, you learn new things every day. 

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, saltycaramel said:

I’m learning about an alternate reality where home recordings were “terrible” (instead of cherished, whatever the quality) and dads would be constantly screamed at to “put down that damn camera”, maybe my household and my general surroundings were weird, thanks guys, you learn new things every day. 

So you deny that such a thing has been widely in movies and TV shows of the time through those decades? Part of that being that those video never actually get watched.  I think you are having a strong case of creating your own reality and history to support what you believe.

 

Public mockery in movies and TV existed for a reason and those were based on what was actually happening of the time.

 

Put aside your quips, actually do learn something this time. Yes this was a real thing despite you wanting to not believe it. You creating your own alternate reality in your mind won't change actual reality or history lol.

 

Quote

Nowadays we can take pictures and video with a few taps of the touchscreen, but I remember a time when we actually dreaded making what we used to call "home movies." I remember how dad (usually dad) was always whipping the big-honking thing out every Christmas, birthday, and just any day he felt like being an amateur filmmaker, propping it up on his shoulder and gathering us all together to be the main attraction, whether we wanted to or not. I remember the "squint" in the view-finder, the ever-present JVC or Panasonic logo, the assortment of big glass lenses covered in fingerprints, and (though it may be total anachronism now) I remember a time when you really did see the little white lines and the blinking red "REC" in the corner when you recorded something. This is where it all comes from kids.

 

 

Quote

At least these days you can delete horrible shots, but there was a time when your dad's film ambitions would be stuck down on celluloid forever, whether they were picture-perfect Kubrickian high cinema or (more likely) Michael Bay shaky-cam clip show. How many of us have reams of celluloid devoted to us flipping the bird on vacation, getting pukey-faced after too much ice cream on our birthday, or the ever-popular "sitting on the toilet" voyeurism they used to torture us with? Home movies were always more of an interruption. How annoying was it to have to stop tearing into your presents on Christmas morning to announce "what you got" and "show it to the camera" every five minutes like the camera was a person and gave a damn? In fact, I will go out on a limb and say the camcorder was a weapon of psychological destruction...

 

Quote

Not only did I not care very much about making or viewing home movies, I don't know anyone who did.

 

http://eightyearoldme.blogspot.com/2013/10/camcorders-and-home-movies.html

 

Since you will likely never take my word for it lol

 

 

I think I have more than proved the point 

 

So what makes you think a VR headset is going to be any more socially acceptable? Google Glass is already a modern and very strong case of no it won't be. Generally people like to know when they are being recorded, but I guess that won't be as much of a problem with the Vision given it's mobility limitations compared to Google Glass

[saltycaramel]

Interesting theory about not overwhelming consumers with a ton of new stuff when introducing a new technology:

 

https://twitter.com/mattmiesnieks/status/1665905501303980039?s=46&t=uhBUIuZsslNKMlHtFg23AQ

[saltycaramel]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

I think I have more than proved the point 

 

Nope, you've simply overblown some anecdotal evidence and jokes. 

 

Opposite anecdotal evidence: my mom would beg my dad to double check everything was ready (batteries, etc.) to film homemade videos on mildly important days and occasions. And in no family I know I've ever heard "put that camera down". 

 

Also, humans are humans, nowadays humans are constantly recording their families, humans from past decades had the same drivers, it's not like they would be discouraged by the "inconvenience" of using a camcorder. Of course it was far less common. But not uncommon. 

[saltycaramel]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

Generally people like to know when they are being recorded

 

How will the Vision Pro will let people know they're being recorded

1) you have to make a very noticeable arm-hand movement to press a physical button above your left eye to initiate the recording or take a still picture

2) the whole outer curved lenticular OLED display will blink white while recording, not a small blinking light but the whole display

 

Looks like this is Apple's solution to that particular issue.

[Paul Thexton]

22 hours ago, Paul Thexton said:

I was looking at some new SDK stuff earlier today relevant to my job and stumbled across this one: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/DockKit

 

That looks kinda cool, although my mind immediately leapt to "man, I wish that would work with a real camera connected to something that could provide the image data rather than the iPhone camera".

 

My next thought was "I've never seen articulated stands for iPhone before, I wonder how much Belkin are going to be charging for them?"

This probably got lost in the argument about whether Vision Pro is revoluationary or dud, and I'm kinda curious.

 

Anybody aware of what kind of motorised iPhone stands are going to be controllable by this API?  Have I been sleeping on this or are they going to be a new product launch from Belkin & the likes by the time i[Pad]OS 17 comes out?  I can't see anything relating to implementing the device side so doesn't look like you can rig up your own motion control thing that the DockKit can then drive (which would be awesome if you could)

[leadeater]

30 minutes ago, Paul Thexton said:

Anybody aware of what kind of motorised iPhone stands are going to be controllable by this API?

I think it's too new a feature, it's part of WWDC23 and iOS 17. There are ones that can do it but they have their own camera so not what you want.

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, saltycaramel said:

How will the Vision Pro will let people know they're being recorded

1) you have to make a very noticeable arm-hand movement to press a physical button above your left eye to initiate the recording or take a still picture

2) the whole outer curved lenticular OLED display will blink white while recording, not a small blinking light but the whole display

 

Looks like this is Apple's solution to that particular issue.

Well you can start the recording at any time without people knowing. The second point is much better, as long as people know what it means. But really because of what you are doing you'll be getting in peoples personal space and looking at them weirdly for too long so it'll get figured out regardless. But then you have the camcorder/Google Glass problem all over again anyway.

 

There will certainly be families willing to use the Vision Pro like this but that's also not going to be a lot and lets just say that since we are talking about product vision then this is really not a situation/use case anyone, you or Apple, wants to be falling back on to reinforce that there is one and it's been presented well. Because like I said the father with the children was just really bad and I am not the only person saying it and that includes people invited to WWDC and invited to use the Vision Pro.

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, saltycaramel said:

Nope, you've simply overblown some anecdotal evidence and jokes. 

Or you have because popular culture becomes so because it's popular/common. The fact that it's in so many comedy and family movies of the time means exactly that. Nothing has been overblown. This is only being argued at all because you want to argue it. It's just not a big deal, you are right, but you are making it so.

 

Using the Vision Pro like that is a problem like it was with Camcorders, so what. It's an irrelevant use case that doesn't matter and it doesn't hurt you in any way to point that out.

 

1 hour ago, saltycaramel said:

And in no family I know I've ever heard "put that camera down". 

Many families have a no phones at the table policy. Many families find the right time and place to record and everyone knows it's being done and it's done in an agreed and socially acceptable way. That might change but the Vision Pro defiantly isn't that now.

[saltycaramel]

There is no "problem" or "no problem". 

There are balancing acts and compromises.

 

If spatial videos will be considered worth the effort to record them, a number of people will accept the compromise to wear an headset to film them. If not, they will not. 

 

Given what I've read and heard about the spatial video portion of the hands-on demo ("I felt like those kids were my children", "it felt like a time machine", "I thought the smoke from the candles would hit my face", etc.), I'm inclined to believe some people will considered it worth it. 

[leadeater]

4 minutes ago, saltycaramel said:

I'm inclined to believe some people will considered it worth it. 

Some people will, some people. Quite literally the exact issue. Some people is not enough to call it part of some "big vision". Some people do many things, unpopular things. Some people walk on their hands. More walk upright  

 

Also I'm quite well aware that phones and recording video had it's own problems that changed over time, but like that for the Vision Pro I'll believe it when it happens and not before.

 

Happening once doesn't mean it'll happen twice, like Google Glass. It could go either way.

[saltycaramel]

I'll correct my euphemism (since my cautiousness is being weaponized against me): I'm 100% sure a lot of people will find it worth it, some parents will even convince themselves they need to acquire the AVP ASAP because every day without the AVP is a day without the ability to capture those fleeing precious moments in the new uniquely emotional Spatial Video format. 

 

That said, that function is just 20 seconds out of the 9:21 video introducing consumers to Apple's current vision for the headset. 

[leadeater]

4 minutes ago, saltycaramel said:

I'm 100% sure a lot of people will find it worth it, some parents will even convince themselves they need to acquire the AVP ASAP because every day without the AVP is a day without the ability to capture those fleeing precious moments in the new uniquely emotional Spatial Video format. 

That's some strong confidence, real strong. Here's a test for you, replace the logo and company name, nothing else, it's the exact same device and the literal exact same presentation, absolutely nothing changes at all other than 2 things. It's Meta and Mark Zuckerberg.

 

Is your opinions the same?

[saltycaramel]

Just now, leadeater said:

That's some strong confidence, real strong. Here's a test for you, replace the logo and company name, nothing else, it's the exact same device and the literal exact same presentation, absolutely nothing changes at all other than 2 things. It's Meta and Mark Zuckerberg.

 

Is your opinions the same?

 

If the headset (hardware and software and privacy and ease of use) is 100% identical minus the logo, sure.

[saltycaramel]

39 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

@saltycaramel
I have to admit: my comment aged even better than I could have ever anticipated. 

This is what Apple was good at. In the end Apple didn't give us the vision we needed. Without this vision, it is only a hollow lens.

 

1) a stunning new way to use the apps we love

2) a powerful way to relive our memories

3) a profound new way to be together

4) and a magical way to be immersed in entertainment

 

1) a stunning new way to use the apps we love

2) a powerful way to relive our memories

3) a profound new way to be together

4) and a magical way to be immersed in entertainment

 

1) a stunning new way to use the apps we love

2) a powerful way to relive our memories

3) a profound new way to be together

4) and a magical way to be immersed in entertainment

 

ARE YOU GETTING IT?

THESE ARE NOT FOUR SEPARATE DEVICES!

THIS IS ONE DEVICE!

And we are calling it...Apple Vision Pro!

 

https://youtu.be/TX9qSaGXFyg?t=525

 

https://youtu.be/GK55ElsVzxM

 

[saltycaramel]

1 minute ago, saltycaramel said:

 

1) a stunning new way to use the apps we love

2) a powerful way to relive our memories

3) a profound new way to be together

4) and a magical way to be immersed in entertainment

 

https://youtu.be/TX9qSaGXFyg?t=525

 

It hAZ nO vIsIoN!

[Paul Thexton]

With my tinfoil hat on I’d say Apple structured their Vision Pro keynote presentation in such a way as to stifle the LTT forums criticism of the Mac Pro not having expandable RAM or PCI Graphics support.

 

Worked a treat.

[saltycaramel]

My favorite LTT forums moment, beside people choosing to die on the "no vision" hill, was when someone told me that letting developers make the visionOS platform great was like "hope and prayers", like it's a bad thing that displays a lack of vision.

Developers flocking to make the platform great with both quantity and quality of apps (in part thanks to Apple's developer tools and platform/hw/sw fundamentals, in part because there's a lot more money to be made) is literally one of the biggest competitive advantages of Apple mobile devices, classic Apple m.o.. 

[Obioban]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

That's some strong confidence, real strong. Here's a test for you, replace the logo and company name, nothing else, it's the exact same device and the literal exact same presentation, absolutely nothing changes at all other than 2 things. It's Meta and Mark Zuckerberg.

 

Is your opinions the same?

Seems a bit silly. I’ve been consistently pleased with my Apple product experiences for 30 years. I’ve been consistently annoyed with Facebook for 20 years. Apple has earned the benefit of the doubt, at least for me.

 

I also don’t understand the killer app complaint. What is the killer app that comes with windows? What is the killer app that comes with iOS?

 

I’d say none, for either— they’re platforms that people make software for, and what software is meaningful to use depends on your use case.

 

The Vision is Apple’s new platform. It comes with a very similar suite of apps as iOS/iPad OS/MacOS. iOS and MacOS come with similar programs, but they’re useful in very different ways. So, too, so I expect this to be.