Under-performing RTX 4090 rig?

[deHEHE]

Hi Guys,

 

so I’m kinda baffled on the overall performance of my gaming rig. I recently upgraded my GPU to rtx 4090 from gtx 970.You can check my build bellow.

 

WINVER: 10 64bit 22H2

SMBIOSBIOSVersion: 3602

MB:  ASUS ROG STRIX X570-E GAMING

SSD: Samsung SSD 990 PRO, M.2 - 2TB  (or 980 im not sure right now)

GPU: Inno3D GeForce RTX 4090 iChill X3 24G

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 5900X Cooler: Noctua NH-D15S

RAM: Patriot Viper 4 Blackout Series 64GB KIT DDR4 3600MHz CL18

Case: NZXT Phantom 530 black

PSU: MSI MPG A850GF

Monitor: Philips Momentum 279M1RV 4K

 

My first game was horizon zero down, all max no problem.(both on 1080p monitor and then I switched to 4k monitor)  I’m also big on rocket league and by default in menu it recommended to run on 360 fps which it did and looked smooth. Then I wanted to move on to High on Life and Hogwarts legacy. In both I was experiencing stuttering but it was issue for lot of people on pc since it was bad port/not smoothed out for pc. So I removed it for time being and installed shadow of tomb raider which is kinda old title but I can’t say it run smooth.  Furthermore I'm having issues even in rocket league which now recommends only 144 fps and even that is not smooth.. I already reinstalled gforce experience drivers, reinstalled windows but doesn’t seem to be better.

 

I need to mention that for rocket league even with previous card sometimes it didn’t look that smooth either.. but only sometime. (1080p) I think when I reinstalled driver it fixed the issue.

 

So I guess my questions is do you see any issue in my build overall? (Maybe not enough W in PSU?) but to be honest its even on NVidia specs that 850 should be enough and It never had crashed)

 

Do you recommend any tests and apps that I can run to check overall performance (to send you results) or what’s happening/what is causing issues?

 

I understand that maybe I’m not describing my issue that well (fps seems to be holding there for games just fine but still the smoothness/responsiveness is not like its way less fps then it shows me) At least when I’m checking fps with build in nvidia (alt+r) I was also checking the temperature in hardware monitor and mostly when I was playing rocket league maximum was 70c overall and  80c in core.

 

Thanks for any suggestions as you probably understand I was expecting completely different experience with my move from gtx 970 to rtx4090.

[emosun]

if you lock it to 60fps/60hz is it more consistent?

[Hinjima]

28 minutes ago, deHEHE said:

Hi Guys,

 

so I’m kinda baffled on the overall performance of my gaming rig. I recently upgraded my GPU to rtx 4090 from gtx 970.You can check my build bellow.

 

WINVER: 10 64bit 22H2

SMBIOSBIOSVersion: 3602

MB:  ASUS ROG STRIX X570-E GAMING

SSD: Samsung SSD 990 PRO, M.2 - 2TB  (or 980 im not sure right now)

GPU: Inno3D GeForce RTX 4090 iChill X3 24G

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 5900X Cooler: Noctua NH-D15S

RAM: Patriot Viper 4 Blackout Series 64GB KIT DDR4 3600MHz CL18

Case: NZXT Phantom 530 black

PSU: MSI MPG A850GF

Monitor: Philips Momentum 279M1RV 4K

 

My first game was horizon zero down, all max no problem.(both on 1080p monitor and then I switched to 4k monitor)  I’m also big on rocket league and by default in menu it recommended to run on 360 fps which it did and looked smooth. Then I wanted to move on to High on Life and Hogwarts legacy. In both I was experiencing stuttering but it was issue for lot of people on pc since it was bad port/not smoothed out for pc. So I removed it for time being and installed shadow of tomb raider which is kinda old title but I can’t say it run smooth.  Furthermore I'm having issues even in rocket league which now recommends only 144 fps and even that is not smooth.. I already reinstalled gforce experience drivers, reinstalled windows but doesn’t seem to be better.

 

I need to mention that for rocket league even with previous card sometimes it didn’t look that smooth either.. but only sometime. (1080p) I think when I reinstalled driver it fixed the issue.

 

So I guess my questions is do you see any issue in my build overall? (Maybe not enough W in PSU?) but to be honest its even on NVidia specs that 850 should be enough and It never had crashed)

 

Do you recommend any tests and apps that I can run to check overall performance (to send you results) or what’s happening/what is causing issues?

 

I understand that maybe I’m not describing my issue that well (fps seems to be holding there for games just fine but still the smoothness/responsiveness is not like its way less fps then it shows me) At least when I’m checking fps with build in nvidia (alt+r) I was also checking the temperature in hardware monitor and mostly when I was playing rocket league maximum was 70c overall and  80c in core.

 

Thanks for any suggestions as you probably understand I was expecting completely different experience with my move from gtx 970 to rtx4090.

Your Ryzen 9 5900X is quite the bottleneck for a 4090.  I had a 9900k@5.1ghz ( same performance as the 5900x ) and with my RTX 4080 it was unplayable.  In almost every game I had stutters, lower framerate than expected and just a terrible time.  I swapped my 9900k for a 7700x and I gained 30+% fps and the 1% low stutters were completely gone.

[deHEHE]

33 minutes ago, emosun said:

if you lock it to 60fps/60hz is it more consistent?

I will try I checked and had monitor Hz set to 119

[deHEHE]

16 minutes ago, Hinjima said:

Your Ryzen 9 5900X is quite the bottleneck for a 4090.  I had a 9900k@5.1ghz ( same performance as the 5900x ) and with my RTX 4080 it was unplayable.  In almost every game I had stutters, lower framerate than expected and just a terrible time.  I swapped my 9900k for a 7700x and I gained 30+% fps and the 1% low stutters were completely gone.

do you think so? How is it possible since the load I never saw on any core more than 15%-20% . Also when I was buying year ago you could have gone only to 5950x that was better so I would say this is considered "high end" no? 

[Guest]

Are you getting the max peformance out of the 4090 with a 5900X across the board in resolutions?  No, you're not.  Should it be a stuttery mess?  No, it shouldn't.  Are your CPU temps in check?  

 

Look at the 4k results in this video...

 

[Hinjima]

1 minute ago, deHEHE said:

do you think so? How is it possible since the load I never saw on any core more than 15%-20% . Also when I was buying year ago you could have gone only to 5950x that was better so I would say this is considered "high end" no? 

It's not considered high end anymore. I guess mid/high?, depending on what GPU you are running.  CPU usage does not tell the entire story when it comes to bottlenecking.  IPC ( instructions per cycle ) is also a major part of how CPU runs faster.  My 9900k was also at 20-30% but it just was not fast enough.  its difficult to explain, or atleast I dont know how to easily explain it.. Maybe someone else can.

[Guest]

You should make sure you're on the newest BIOS for your motherboard, then ensure that everything is clocked/configured as it should be.  Use DDU and then reinstall the latest Nvidia driver, make sure you have the newest AMD chipset driver installed also.

 

EDIT:  chipset driver from amd.com not Asus.

[emosun]

38 minutes ago, Hinjima said:

CPU usage does not tell the entire story when it comes to bottlenecking.

i'll have to remember that line for when I'm working for hardware sales commissions vs actually doing diagnostics or solving problems.

[Hinjima]

5 minutes ago, emosun said:

i'll have to remember that line for when I'm working for hardware sales commissions vs actually doing diagnostics or solving problems.

Can you explain further, I do not understand.  English is not my main language.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Hinjima said:

Can you explain further, I do not understand.  English is not my main language.

A 5900X will push a 4090 as hard as it can, but it won't get every ounce of performance out of it.  A 5900X with an Nvidia GT1030 for example, the GPU would be the bottleneck, it would not keep up with the CPU.  Either scenario shouldn't have crazy stutters.  If it was an AMD FX CPU, that would be a Horrible bottleneck and probably cause stutters..  The bigger the gap in generation of hardware, the worse things get.

[Hinjima]

3 hours ago, si1enze said:

A 5900X will push a 4090 as hard as it can, but it won't get every ounce of performance out of it.  A 5900X with an Nvidia GT1030 for example, the GPU would be the bottleneck, it would not keep up with the CPU.  Either scenario shouldn't have crazy stutters.  If it was an AMD FX CPU, that would be a Horrible bottleneck and probably cause stutters..  The bigger the gap in generation of hardware, the worse things get.

Oh I know how bottlenecking works, just didnt know how to articulate it well enough. My 9900k ( same as 5900x gaming performance ) was absolutely terrible with my 4080.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Hinjima said:

Oh I know how bottlenecking works, just didnt know how to articulate it well enough. My 9900k ( same as 5900x gaming performance ) was absolutely terrible with my 4080.

There must have been another factor contributing to that, you even said they are the same in gaming performance..

[Guest]

@Hinjima Take a look at this video, i9-9900k with a 4090 vs 13900k with the same.. 9900k does just fine.

 

[duckargent]

I don't want to spoil the joy of a new build, but if it is smoothness what you are complaining of, then you should have bought a G-sync monitor, since you already have a 4090. Like, real G-sync, not compatible. This completely eliminates both tearing and stutters.

 

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/products/g-sync-monitors/specs/

 

Also, this article explains how a framerate too high can create a choppy picture (aka stuttering) if you don't have a high refresh rate monitor to match that framerate:

"To get the most out of your video game, you need a monitor that is going to refresh 120 times per second – a 120Hz monitor. With a 60Hz monitor, you are going to get half the amount of frames per second displayed.

Imagine your video game as that series of moving pictures, only this time, you only get to see every other picture. When every other picture is threaded together and displayed, you wind up with a very choppy picture.

This is exactly what happens when you use a monitor with a low refresh rate to play a game with a high number of frames per second. Your picture is not fluid because you are missing half of the information. Think back to the flipbook I mentioned before, this is an exaggerated example but is much easier to visualize.

Now, if you have a monitor with a 120Hz refresh rate, you will see every frame of the film which means that your picture is smoother and flows together flawlessly."

 

Is A Higher Refresh Rate Better For Your Eyes? ⋆ Gear Gaming Hub

 

Since you already have a 144Hz monitor, then the problem might be that your monitor is not actually in sync with the GPU, since it is not G-sync (with G-sync chip inside), but G-sync compatible (Adaptive sync - software), which is nowhere near the performance of a true G-sync display. Most probably that 4090 is outputting too many fps than the monitor can handle. Remember: screen tearing and stutter can occur even if the framerate is below the refresh rate of the monitor.

 

Also, from my personal point of view, you are better off with a 13700k/13900k for high framerate at high refresh rate.

 

Edited March 25, 2023 by duckargent
I updated with additional information

[duckargent]

There is another thing to consider here, your RAM is too slow: RAM timings actually matter. You may think that 3600Mhz is fast but when you translate this into access time, you get this: 

clock time=1/(3600/2)*1000=0,56 ns; true latency=0,56*(CL)18=10 ns

or

true latency=18/3600*1000*2=10 ns

 

For comparison my RAM kit with 3200CL14 b-die has a latency of 8,75 ns, whereas a 3600CL15 RAM will yield an 8,33 ns latency. The computation is based on the CAS latency.

Now, you might think that 1,25 ns (13%)  and 1,67 ns (17%) is not that much, but when the 4090 is expecting data from the RAM as fast as it outputs an insane amount of fps on the screen, bad things may happen, and I reckon stuttering is one of them. I am mentioning the 4090 since such a card can certainly expose some vulnerabilities in the system.

 

My recommendation is to change the RAM with a 3600CL15, to decrease the latency, or the fastest (in true latency) which you can buy.

[deHEHE]

On 3/21/2023 at 6:05 PM, emosun said:

if you lock it to 60fps/60hz is it more consistent?

this did the trick in every game I tested. A was never thinking before to check the hz in ingame settings , for some reason it was usually on completely different number than my monitor..so everything seems to run smooth now thank you..;)