Router Options

[Mr_Argon]

Hi all. I'm not very experienced with routers, but have recently been looking for a new one, as the one provided by our ISP doesn't have enough range. I have been reading a lot of "Best Routers of 2022" lists, and many list the TP-Link AX55 as the best price-performance option.

Is this considered to be a good option for what I need? Are there any alternatives that may be better for my needs?

 

Info:

Not looking to spend more than 350 NZD (about 220 USD)

Approx. 100sq meter (1000 sq foot) house. Router is unfortunately located in the corner of the house, needs to reach the other side.

Current internet speed is 50 down / 20 up, will be upgrading to 300 down / 100 up very soon.

Use case is mostly video streaming at 1080p (will be higher def after I get a router that has the range) and gaming.

[filpo]

3 minutes ago, Mr_Argon said:

Hi all. I'm not very experienced with routers, but have recently been looking for a new one, as the one provided by our ISP doesn't have enough range. I have been reading a lot of "Best Routers of 2022" lists, and many list the TP-Link AX55 as the best price-performance option.

Is this considered to be a good option for what I need? Are there any alternatives that may be better for my needs?

 

Info:

Not looking to spend more than 350 NZD (about 220 USD)

Approx. 100sq meter (1000 sq foot) house. Router is unfortunately located in the corner of the house, needs to reach the other side.

Current internet speed is 50 down / 20 up, will be upgrading to 300 down / 100 up very soon.

Use case is mostly video streaming at 1080p (will be higher def after I get a router that has the range) and gaming.

TP-Link WiFi 6 AX3000 Smart WiFi Router (Archer AX50) – 802.11ax Router, Gigabit Router, Dual Band, OFDMA, MU-MIMO, Parental Controls, Built-in HomeCare,Works with Alexa (amazon.com) rated best budget router with wifi 6

[Mr_Argon]

3 minutes ago, filpo said:

TP-Link WiFi 6 AX3000 Smart WiFi Router (Archer AX50) – 802.11ax Router, Gigabit Router, Dual Band, OFDMA, MU-MIMO, Parental Controls, Built-in HomeCare,Works with Alexa (amazon.com) rated best budget router with wifi 6

I did look at that, however quite a few reviews I saw mention issues with the router running hot, and occasionally overheating. As far as I'm aware, the AX55 I am looking at is an updated version, without overheating issues. I am happy to pay the little bit extra for reliability. Thank you for your reply.

[filpo]

3 minutes ago, Mr_Argon said:

I did look at that, however quite a few reviews I saw mention issues with the router running hot, and occasionally overheating. As far as I'm aware, the AX55 I am looking at is an updated version, without overheating issues. I am happy to pay the little bit extra for reliability. Thank you for your reply.

If you are happy to pay a little bit more then go for that one or this one that i found on amazon

[Donut417]

13 hours ago, Mr_Argon said:

s the one provided by our ISP doesn't have enough range.

Most in likely this is a modem/router combo. Judging by the speeds Im going to guess you have some form of DSL or coax based connection. If you have DSL and the phone line connected directly to that box, then its a combo, if you have Coax based internet and the coax connects directly then its a combo. If you have a combo you need to check to see if it supports preferable Bridge mode or at least IP pass thru mode. This will effectively turn off the router portion of the box and allow you to use your own router with out having double NAT. 

 

Im not sure how prices look in your part of the world. But WiFi 6 is kinda more main stream down days. That being said, I have the Synology RT 2600AC and we have a 1300 sq ft house. I get coverages throughout. While my router is not in the furthest corner, it's still kinda in the corner. I dont get full speeds to all devices everywhere but the coverage and speeds I do get are enough for our purposes. 

 

If you have the possibility to elevate your router to a higher spot it can help with coverage. I live in a two story house and the router is on the second floor which is why we get great coverage. Another thing is going to be building construction. My house is of wood and dry wall construction. Dense materials like brick, cinder block and concrete will block WiFi signals. 

[LIGISTX]

Google nest Wifi. Mesh systems are sorta just the best. These units work, plain and simple. I have a few deployed at family members houses and small business, and some friends run them. Literally never have any issues. 

[Mr_Argon]

On 3/16/2023 at 11:25 AM, Donut417 said:

Most in likely this is a modem/router combo. Judging by the speeds Im going to guess you have some form of DSL or coax based connection. If you have DSL and the phone line connected directly to that box, then its a combo, if you have Coax based internet and the coax connects directly then its a combo. If you have a combo you need to check to see if it supports preferable Bridge mode or at least IP pass thru mode. This will effectively turn off the router portion of the box and allow you to use your own router with out having double NAT. 

 

Im not sure how prices look in your part of the world. But WiFi 6 is kinda more main stream down days. That being said, I have the Synology RT 2600AC and we have a 1300 sq ft house. I get coverages throughout. While my router is not in the furthest corner, it's still kinda in the corner. I dont get full speeds to all devices everywhere but the coverage and speeds I do get are enough for our purposes. 

 

If you have the possibility to elevate your router to a higher spot it can help with coverage. I live in a two story house and the router is on the second floor which is why we get great coverage. Another thing is going to be building construction. My house is of wood and dry wall construction. Dense materials like brick, cinder block and concrete will block WiFi signals. 

Believe it or not, this is a fiber connection, we just didn't upgrade our speeds from using VDSL, as the cost was too high, and it was surplus to our needs.

 

As I said, I'm new to the whole networking thing, so I'm not entirely certain how to differentiate between a modem and a router. This is the unit we have. It's listed as a modem, but it acts as a router, so could be a combo unit? It connects to a box on the wall, that's where the internet line comes in from outside.

 

I have borrowed a router from my mate before (This Linksys unit), and the range was way better than anything the ISP has provided. That's from 2015-2016, so my logic is that a new router will provide even better range, or at least better than our ISP unit.

 

We can't elevate it much more than it already is. Our house has a wood and drywall interior, so that shouldn't be too bad. The router in my original post just seems to be good value for money. Yes it offers higher speeds than what we need, but that's exactly what I want, I don't want to run into a bottleneck further down the line.

 

Also a good thing to note is that our house doesn't have ethernet run through it like some houses do.

[Mr_Argon]

On 3/16/2023 at 11:30 AM, LIGISTX said:

Google nest Wifi. Mesh systems are sorta just the best. These units work, plain and simple. I have a few deployed at family members houses and small business, and some friends run them. Literally never have any issues. 

Google Nest is an option I've looked at, but anything more than 1 unit is out of my preferred price range. I have also looked at this option from TP Link, which seems to also be quite good.

[Donut417]

7 hours ago, Mr_Argon said:

but it acts as a router, so could be a combo unit?

Technically that is a combo unit. If it offers both modem and router features and a combo unit, as that device has a DSL modem built in. It also has a Ethernet port thats used for WAN. What this all means is your ISP is using one device for multiple internet types, which is not uncommon. My guess is the box mounted to the wall is your ONT, it's kinda like a modem in the fact it takes the ISP's connection and coverts it in to an Ethernet connection that you can use. 

 

The issue you're going to have is if you connect a router to a router you will have double NAT. Certain things might stop working, port forwarding will likely be more difficult. What you might consider is seeing if you can turn off the WIFi of the ISP's device and buy a wireless AP instead. 

[LIGISTX]

11 hours ago, Mr_Argon said:

Google Nest is an option I've looked at, but anything more than 1 unit is out of my preferred price range. I have also looked at this option from TP Link, which seems to also be quite good.

Oh man, have they really gotten that expensive? I used to buy the 3 puck pack for like 199. 
 

Looks like they still are: Google Nest WiFi - AC2200 (2nd Generation) Router and Add On Access Point Mesh Wi-Fi System (3-Pack, Snow) https://a.co/d/j2OjX9s

 

At least in the US. 
 

There is the new pro version, but these gen 2’s are fine. My parents store still uses Gen 1’s with no issues, and they have 2 gen 1’s and a Gen 2 at their house. 

[Falcon1986]

@Mr_Argon

 

I think the best coverage will be obtained from better positioning, no matter what you get as a replacement. Wireless routers and APs don’t blast their broadcasts as they please; they need to stay within regulatory limits. They can use different optimizations to get the best stability and speed, but they’re not going to go out of these limits.

 

Since you have an internet gateway device, you don’t need to replace it. A better option would be to get a dedicated AP or convert a wireless router to AP mode, and mount it at a central location with an ethernet uplink to the gateway. Then you can turn off the WiFi on the gateway and only use the new AP’s WiFi.

[Mr_Argon]

Apologies for the gap in replying, life happened and took me out of home for a week.

On 3/18/2023 at 12:31 AM, Donut417 said:

The issue you're going to have is if you connect a router to a router you will have double NAT. Certain things might stop working, port forwarding will likely be more difficult. What you might consider is seeing if you can turn off the WIFi of the ISP's device and buy a wireless AP instead. 

Yeah I was always intending on replacing my current ISP supplied unit. Any router I buy will take the output from the thing I've got on the wall, what you called the ONT.

 

On 3/18/2023 at 4:07 AM, LIGISTX said:

Oh man, have they really gotten that expensive? I used to buy the 3 puck pack for like 199. 

Yeah looks like they are within my price range (just) if I buy from Amazon, but then plus shipping (which is an extra 30USD), and Google products in general aren't really sold in NZ, the Google Store barely offers anything, and local vendors are just as frugal.

 

On 3/18/2023 at 5:41 AM, Falcon1986 said:

@Mr_Argon

 

I think the best coverage will be obtained from better positioning, no matter what you get as a replacement. Wireless routers and APs don’t blast their broadcasts as they please; they need to stay within regulatory limits. They can use different optimizations to get the best stability and speed, but they’re not going to go out of these limits.

 

Since you have an internet gateway device, you don’t need to replace it. A better option would be to get a dedicated AP or convert a wireless router to AP mode, and mount it at a central location with an ethernet uplink to the gateway. Then you can turn off the WiFi on the gateway and only use the new AP’s WiFi.

Yeah, unfortunately I can't change the position. I am aware that there are limits to the range of a single unit, however what I also know is that the ISP supplied unit is shocking. I borrowed a mates 9 year old router, and it easily broadcast a signal to the other end of my house, and even my garage, which the ISP router can't reach with anything short of a miracle. So I don't really think that I need a router with incredible range, I'm just looking for something modern that will last for a long time.

 

Thank you all for your responses.

[E-waste]

On 3/15/2023 at 4:32 AM, Mr_Argon said:

Current internet speed is 50 down / 20 up, will be upgrading to 300 down / 100 up very soon.

Use case is mostly video streaming at 1080p (will be higher def after I get a router that has the range)

About 4k:

 

Are you sitting five feet or less from the screen?  Do you have very clear vision?

 

If no to either of those, then you won't see much difference.  Don't feel obligated to upgrade to 4K unless you know you can actually see the jagged lines on screen.  If not, stick with 1080p.

 

A wireless access point is what you want!  If you want a router, look into openwrt for wifi routers, PF /opn sense for server pc router, that won't stop support just five years after you install it.

[Mr_Argon]

On 3/27/2023 at 11:30 AM, E-waste said:

About 4k:

 

Are you sitting five feet or less from the screen?  Do you have very clear vision?

 

If no to either of those, then you won't see much difference.  Don't feel obligated to upgrade to 4K unless you know you can actually see the jagged lines on screen.  If not, stick with 1080p.

 

A wireless access point is what you want!  If you want a router, look into openwrt for wifi routers, PF /opn sense for server pc router, that won't stop support just five years after you install it.

We have a 4k TV. However that is a moot point, as even 1080p struggles to load. Please refer to my previous reply as to why I know a router upgrade will solve my issues.

[E-waste]

Again, I say it without questoin, because I know what I'm discussing, a wireless access point is what you are actually looking for.  Don't rebuttle my advice and tell me, who is trying to get you the best wifi experience, why you need a new ROUTER when that's not the case.

 

Please keep your router, but disable its onboard wireless.  Then, please, and don't rebuttle my advice, look into a wireless access point which NONE of them have any routing--which is why they are not called wifi routers.

 

You already have a router--that router is NOT the issue--it's the wireless not being design worth a .... so you have a poor connection.

 

Hooking up NOT yet another router, to your already existing router, but instead using a wireless access point will give you a far better experience.

 

Yes, it's a bit annoying to tell me why you need "something else" when I'm doing my best to provide you my networking hardware knowledge to help your wifi.  In fact, it's rude.

[LIGISTX]

2 hours ago, E-waste said:

Again, I say it without questoin, because I know what I'm discussing, a wireless access point is what you are actually looking for.  Don't rebuttle my advice and tell me, who is trying to get you the best wifi experience, why you need a new ROUTER when that's not the case.

 

Please keep your router, but disable its onboard wireless.  Then, please, and don't rebuttle my advice, look into a wireless access point which NONE of them have any routing--which is why they are not called wifi routers.

 

You already have a router--that router is NOT the issue--it's the wireless not being design worth a .... so you have a poor connection.

 

Hooking up NOT yet another router, to your already existing router, but instead using a wireless access point will give you a far better experience.

 

Yes, it's a bit annoying to tell me why you need "something else" when I'm doing my best to provide you my networking hardware knowledge to help your wifi.  In fact, it's rude.

A new router is much easier for a lot of folks… since they don’t need to do much of anything. And a mesh system is so simple and so effective, it can be life changing for folks. 
 

AP’s are great if you want to learn more about networking, but if you just want better Wifi, a new router (specifically a mesh) is much easier for most people. 

[E-waste]

6 hours ago, LIGISTX said:

A new router is much easier for a lot of folks… since they don’t need to do much of anything.

I don't believe this at all, as in, I don't want to believe it's an accurate statement (I hope that's not read as rude, I don't mean it in a rude manner).

 

Explain to me please, why you believe hooking up basically a wifi SWITCH, is any harder than hooking up a wifi router, which, if you are trying to do things the best way, you'd disable the routing in either if the two devices or you'll get douboe nat, giving games trouble.

 

So how is that easier than avoiding that issue?

 

You plug a network cable from the same place you would a wifi router, into the access point, in place of a wifi router.

 

O.K. so now what?

 

You plug in the power cord?

 

O.K.

 

The "switch" turns on, and?  Don't most of these just auto-config?  I really don't agree with your thoughts in this, so I need more explanation to understand your reasoning.

[LIGISTX]

3 hours ago, E-waste said:

I don't believe this at all, as in, I don't want to believe it's an accurate statement (I hope that's not read as rude, I don't mean it in a rude manner).

 

Explain to me please, why you believe hooking up basically a wifi SWITCH, is any harder than hooking up a wifi router, which, if you are trying to do things the best way, you'd disable the routing in either if the two devices or you'll get douboe nat, giving games trouble.

 

So how is that easier than avoiding that issue?

 

You plug a network cable from the same place you would a wifi router, into the access point, in place of a wifi router.

 

O.K. so now what?

 

You plug in the power cord?

 

O.K.

 

The "switch" turns on, and?  Don't most of these just auto-config?  I really don't agree with your thoughts in this, so I need more explanation to understand your reasoning.

You wouldn't get double NAT... I am suggesting people replace their bad router with a better one instead of disabling their wifi and adding an AP. You only ever want 1 router, I agree, but most people don't really understand this, nor do they understand why. So what ends up happening A LOT, is folks get a second router and just plug it in, making the assumption it would work like an AP (they don't know what an AP is, they don't understand NAT, etc) so they end up with issues. I am simply saying, get rid of the current router, and replace it with a nice mesh wifi setup.

 

The reason a lot of folks wouldn't have a great time with AP's is because its an entire extra step of setup. When you set up a router is relatively easy, it is the DHCP device, it will hand out IP's, and the instructions will somewhat easily tell you to go to the webUI to configure wifi settings etc. But say someone buys an AP that either comes preconfigured with a static IP that is outside of the subnet of their current network, or it comes with DHCP turned on. Either of those situations would be difficult for someone who doesn't understand networking to figure out.

 

If you don't understand networking, how would you go about connecting to the AP if it has an IP outside of the subnet... you would need to plug directly into it, and either set it to DHCP, or set it to a static IP outside of the DHCP range on the current subnet - these are words *most* people don't even understand...

 

Same question, but assume it comes with DHCP on. Someone would need to know enough to go into the router's DHCP leases or ARP table, and pull out the IP for their new AP, so they can access its webUI and set up the Wifi... again, most people don't know how to do this, nor do they even know what that even meant.

 

Also, no, AP's do not auto configure. How would the AP know what wifi SSID to use, or what password to use? You will need to set that up, which may be difficult for someone who doesn't know a thing about networking for the reasons listed above. 

 

If someone wants to understand this, they can certainly learn. It isn't difficult. But for the vast majority of people, the best, trouble free answer is to just say "take your old router, recycle is, and replace it with a mesh system. Just plug it in, follow the instructions, and itll work great". Also, something like a google wifi mesh system is going to have better coverage then just about any single AP would anyways; I have used them extensively for family members, and they are fantastic. 0 issues, damn near 100% uptime, and great coverage. Personally, I run pfsense and Unifi switches and AP's, but that is not what most people are going to do.

[E-waste]

https://www.tp-link.com/us/support/faq/1603/

 

What access points have you configured?  TP-link has "smart IP" which I guess just pulls the IP from the DHCP from the existing router, just like any other network device!  Where did you get the idea that be ause these devices don't have a router, they also won't be able to pick up the LAN DHCP address handed out by the routers auto addressing, I don't get that.

 

If the same company that designs wifi routers has auto-IP addressing from dhcp, why would their other products not be able to do it?  That would make their products more difficult to use, why would anyone omit auto-addressing?

 

Where did you get this idea, I really want to know.

[LIGISTX]

1 hour ago, E-waste said:

https://www.tp-link.com/us/support/faq/1603/

 

What access points have you configured?  TP-link has "smart IP" which I guess just pulls the IP from the DHCP from the existing router, just like any other network device!  Where did you get the idea that be ause these devices don't have a router, they also won't be able to pick up the LAN DHCP address handed out by the routers auto addressing, I don't get that.

 

If the same company that designs wifi routers has auto-IP addressing from dhcp, why would their other products not be able to do it?  That would make their products more difficult to use, why would anyone omit auto-addressing?

 

Where did you get this idea, I really want to know.

I don’t think you read my previous comment fully…

 

7 hours ago, LIGISTX said:

Same question, but assume it comes with DHCP on. Someone would need to know enough to go into the router's DHCP leases or ARP table, and pull out the IP for their new AP, so they can access its webUI and set up the Wifi... again, most people don't know how to do this, nor do they even know what that even meant.

 

Also, no, AP's do not auto configure. How would the AP know what wifi SSID to use, or what password to use? You will need to set that up, which may be difficult for someone who doesn't know a thing about networking for the reasons listed above.

There would only be 2 ways to access this webUI, by its IP (which is provided by DHC, which means the person setting it up would need to be able to figure out the IP via looking it up in their router, which I am making the argument may be difficult for a lot of people), or by host name. If the AP comes pre configured with a host name, that should at least get you to the webUI… assuming the person setting it up knows what a host name is it’s clearly explained in the instructions how to access it. 
 

I run UniFi AP’s, as stated in my previous post, with multiple SSID’s, vlans, segregated subnets, etc. I have s pretty good working understanding of networking… and I set up tplink AP’s probably 10 years ago for a family member. They did have DHCP on, and to get to their webUI I had to look up their IP in the routers list of connected devices which I am arguing is something a lot of people will not be able to successfully do.