Surface pro 2017 (5) support of 3440x1440 (UWQHD) 21:9 monitor

[mrMad-Cat]

Hi.
I want to buy a new monitor 21:9 3440x1440, probably with higher refresh rates, as a New year's present for my wife. Yet I fail to find information if her surface pro 2017 i5 will support it.

What are your thoughts?

 

This is what I found out so far. Official microsoft's specs online say it has miniDP 1.2. That should not be a problem for resolution 3440x1440 to my understanding as it supports much more. It also supports up to 144Hz for 1440p, yet I fail to find anything in other resolution combinations and if 3440x1440 is among them.

 

Intel i5 here is a Intel Core i5-7300U with Intel® HD Graphics 620, probably this will limit to 60Hz, yet I can't find any info on higher frequencies support. Its max resolution is 4096x2304@60Hz, but 3440x1440 is lower so probably there is a possibility of higher refresh rates. Yet no 100% proof it is supported.

 

The surface pro's original resolution is 2736x1824 which is also relatively high, though it is a completely different resolution and can't be a 100% proof it will work.

 

I didn't know it is so hard to find info on support of UWQHD, since the standard is far from being any new.

[deadlou666]

4k/uhd 60hz with displayport i believe is the max resolution the i5 can push so  wide-screen uhd should work. If it doesn't you could always return the display! 

[Glenwing]

It will be supported on the Mini DP output.

[mrMad-Cat]

1 hour ago, deadlou666 said:

4k/uhd 60hz with displayport i believe is the max resolution the i5 can push so  wide-screen uhd should work. If it doesn't you could always return the display! 

Since 4k is ~8MP and 3440x1440 is only ~5MP, technically it should. But the question is how can I be sure it is supported natively by this exact processor or at least by Intel HD Graphics 620? And can I hope for more than 60Hz?

I don't want to go through the process of testing and returning, plus as per rules in my country if the product is opened, I no longer have the right to return it, only if the seller agrees.

 

54 minutes ago, Glenwing said:

It will be supported on the Mini DP output.

As I found out, not really. As is indicated in many threads in the Internet 3440x1440 144Hz should be out of DP 1.2 specs. It is believed that it can handle something near 110Hz, yet I can't yet find any real confirmations.

In the end Intel Core i5-7300U seems to be a bottle neck, but again I can't find info how much of it it is.

 

So, I need to know all the possible display modes I can squeeze from it. If it works UWQHD only 60 Hz and UWHD 90/120/144Hz, these are things to consider. Especially since UWHD monitors seem to be cheaper.

 

I've also read that DP1.2 was sometimes updated on some devices via drivers to DP 1.4, may be this is also the case here. Anyway processor seems to be a limitation factor.

[Glenwing]

34 minutes ago, mrMad-Cat said:

Since 4k is ~8MP and 3440x1440 is only ~5MP, technically it should. But the question is how can I be sure it is supported natively by this exact processor or at least by Intel HD Graphics 620? And can I hope for more than 60Hz?

There is no "native" support needed for specific resolutions.

34 minutes ago, mrMad-Cat said:

As I found out, not really. As is indicated in many threads in the Internet 3440x1440 144Hz should be out of DP 1.2 specs. It is believed that it can handle something near 110Hz, yet I can't yet find any real confirmations.

In the end Intel Core i5-7300U seems to be a bottle neck, but again I can't find info how much of it it is.

I did not see you ask specifically for 144 Hz at 3440 × 1440, I was only answering if 3440 × 1440 was supported in general.

34 minutes ago, mrMad-Cat said:

So, I need to know all the possible display modes I can squeeze from it. If it works UWQHD only 60 Hz and UWHD 90/120/144Hz, these are things to consider. Especially since UWHD monitors seem to be cheaper.

You can find this information in the pinned thread:

 

https://linustechtips.com/topic/729232-guide-to-display-cables-adapters-v2/?section=calc&mode=maxfreq&H=3440&V=1440

34 minutes ago, mrMad-Cat said:

 

I've also read that DP1.2 was sometimes updated on some devices via drivers to DP 1.4, may be this is also the case here. Anyway processor seems to be a limitation factor.

There has never been a device whose transmission speed support was increased through a driver update. The GeForce 900 series received an update to fix some compatibility issues when connected to DP 1.4 displays, and people misinterpreted that as "being updated to support DP 1.4".

[mrMad-Cat]

37 minutes ago, Glenwing said:

I did not see you ask specifically for 144 Hz at 3440 × 1440, I was only answering if 3440 × 1440 was supported in general.

That was hidden in the first sentence "I want to buy a new monitor 21:9 3440x1440, probably with higher refresh rates"  But even knowing 60Hz will work is a nice thing.

 

39 minutes ago, Glenwing said:

There is no "native" support needed for specific resolutions.

By native I mean that when connecting monitor to laptop:

1) it automatically supports max native monitors resolution, thus 3440 × 1440 @ X Hz

2) such a display mode is in the list of all of available display modes under Windows monitor setting menu. 

If it won't work "out of the box" and I'll need to play with registry and drivers, this is something to consider too.

 

43 minutes ago, Glenwing said:

You can find this information in the pinned thread:

 

https://linustechtips.com/topic/729232-guide-to-display-cables-adapters-v2/?section=calc&mode=maxfreq&H=3440&V=1440

Thank you, now that's hell of a calculator!  I even didn't know forum's engines can support such things. Ok, so it says theoretically the max refresh rate for DP 1.2 at UWQHD is 133Hz. Sorry for stupid question, but since I only experienced refresh rates higher than 60Hz at specific devices (Valve Index, Samsung phone, a 12+ year old LG 3D TV), do PC monitors support any refresh rates you "feed" them within their support range or are they limited to only few variations (like mobile phone or valve index)? Meaning can I use that 133Hz in real life or that just means that it can't handle 144Hz and I'll be stuck with 60Hz?
Anyway, it only makes stronger my assumption that that the bottle neck here will be not the DP 1.2 but the i5-7300U. And the last thing is still unclear.

[Andrewtst]

4 hours ago, mrMad-Cat said:

Intel® HD Graphics 620

Intel support is bad; even specifications supposedly can support but cannot in actual. You will most likely need to set custom resolution with a maximum of 100hz.

 

The safer way is bring your wife surface pro over the shop to test out. 

[Glenwing]

2 hours ago, mrMad-Cat said:

Thank you, now that's hell of a calculator!  I even didn't know forum's engines can support such things.

As a staff member I have access to the secret menu

2 hours ago, mrMad-Cat said:

Ok, so it says theoretically the max refresh rate for DP 1.2 at UWQHD is 133Hz. Sorry for stupid question, but since I only experienced refresh rates higher than 60Hz at specific devices (Valve Index, Samsung phone, a 12+ year old LG 3D TV), do PC monitors support any refresh rates you "feed" them within their support range or are they limited to only few variations (like mobile phone or valve index)? Meaning can I use that 133Hz in real life or that just means that it can't handle 144Hz and I'll be stuck with 60Hz?

When a display is connected, it will transmit its identification information (EDID) to the host computer. This contains a list of formats that the display says it supports. These are the formats that show up as options in the Windows menus, generally speaking (sometimes, graphics drivers will inject additional options into the list).

 

The PC will also hide options that the source device can't support, which is just formats that exceed the maximum bandwidth capacity. PCs support arbitrary output formats, so they don't need "support" for specific resolutions or refresh rates). So, if a monitor existed with 133 Hz refresh rate, it would show ip as an option. But realistically, most 3440 × 1440 144 Hz monitors will have 144 Hz, 120 Hz, 100 Hz, and 60 Hz profiles in their EDID. So if you have a PC that can't output 144 Hz, the next available option will be 120 Hz. Generally monitors will list their supported formats in the manual near the end.

 

If a particular format isn't in the monitor's EDID, you can also still run it via a custom resolution. Monitors generally will accept any arbitrary input signal.

2 hours ago, mrMad-Cat said:

Anyway, it only makes stronger my assumption that that the bottle neck here will be not the DP 1.2 but the i5-7300U. And the last thing is still unclear.

 

2 hours ago, Andrewtst said:

Intel support is bad; even specifications supposedly can support but cannot in actual. You will most likely need to set custom resolution with a maximum of 100hz.

 

The safer way is bring your wife surface pro over the shop to test out. 

Intel HD graphics are limited to 300 MHz TMDS over HDMI, which means maximum 120 Hz at 1080p or 50 Hz at 3440 × 1440. But there are no such limitations on DisplayPort that I'm aware of.

[Andrewtst]

1 hour ago, Glenwing said:

Intel HD graphics are limited to 300 MHz TMDS over HDMI, which means maximum 120 Hz at 1080p or 50 Hz at 3440 × 1440. But there are no such limitations on DisplayPort that I'm aware of.

My office uses DP 1.2 and Intel GPU, and I can only set the resolution to 3440x1440 at 100hz.

 

My older laptop is HDMI and an Intel GPU also, and it do runs at 120hz at 1920x1080, as you mentioned.

 

I believe Intel limits both.

[Glenwing]

33 minutes ago, Andrewtst said:

My office uses DP 1.2 and Intel GPU, and I can only set the resolution to 3440x1440 at 100hz.

 

My older laptop is HDMI and an Intel GPU also, and it do runs at 120hz at 1920x1080, as you mentioned.

 

I believe Intel limits both.

Interesting. Does the monitor have a 120 Hz profile that shows up on other GPUs?

[Andrewtst]

1 hour ago, Glenwing said:

Interesting. Does the monitor have a 120 Hz profile that shows up on other GPUs?

For the AOC 24G2SP, it displays 240hz and 120hz in my PC with an RTX 3080, but only 120hz in my old laptop with an Intel GPU as an output source via HDMI.

 

For LG 34GN850,  it displays as 144hz (I did not overclock), and there is no 100hz profile in any of my systems; 100hz required custom resolution.

[mrMad-Cat]

6 hours ago, Andrewtst said:

My office uses DP 1.2 and Intel GPU, and I can only set the resolution to 3440x1440 at 100hz.

Interesting. Do you know what is the exact CPU/GPU there?

 

7 hours ago, Glenwing said:

Intel HD graphics are limited to 300 MHz TMDS over HDMI, which means maximum 120 Hz at 1080p or 50 Hz at 3440 × 1440. But there are no such limitations on DisplayPort that I'm aware of.

That is nice to hear.

Here is also additional information I found: Troubleshoot connecting Surface to an external display - Microsoft Support

It says:

For one external display, here’s the supported resolution and refresh rate: 

Surface Pro 1796 with i5 or i7 processor Max refresh rate 60 Hz Max screen resolution 4096 x 2304

Do you think they could have limited it somehow to 60Hz in any resolution or they meant only max possible bandwidth combination, and higher rates than 60Hz are still possible?

 

 

[Andrewtst]

31 minutes ago, mrMad-Cat said:

Interesting. Do you know what is the exact CPU/GPU there?

 

My office PC is Intel® Core™ i3-8100, GPU is Intel UHD Graphics 630.

[mrMad-Cat]

Ok, thank you Andrewtst and Glenwing. Though there is much uncertainty left, in general I understood that I should not worry about support of 3440x1440 @ 60Hz, and even can hope for some refresh rates boost up to 120Hz, if there are no more underwater stones.

So, I opted for Philips 34E1C5600HE which is a 3440x1440 @ 100Hz monitor with DP 1.2 (though I opted for it mainly because it has their great camera with win hello and speakers, and there are almost no alternatives in such form-factor/specs combination). I'll update after new year on how everything went.

[mrMad-Cat]

So, all went well. It started 3440x1440 @ 60Hz and in the win. settings there was option of 99,9Hz, so I switched to it and now it all works perfectly that way.

Happy end.

Thank you every one for your help.

And a happy New Year!