Screwdrivers: A look at amazon's and klein's multi bit.

[Mikensan]

Since I'm impatient and wanted to play with a ratcheting screwdriver (never owned one, seemed gimmicky) I picked up two from Amazon: Klein's multibit and Amazon Basic's multibit (both ratcheting). I'll be returning both ultimately. Hopefully I'll get in on Wave 4 or 5 and have an update by next year :'(.

 

I've been doing projects around the house and have been alternating between the two to see what my likes / dislikes were... So in summary:

 

Klein:

Pros: Very good feeling in the hand (weight and size). Very little movement of the shaft. Double ended bits are nice so if you just need 1 size up/down it is just a matter of flipping it as you move between various screw sizes. Rubber grips were reassuring. The bearing on the bits kept the bits locked into the shaft (thus never stuck in a screw). Bit holder spins. The bits are properly sized (fits well into their respective screws). 

 

Cons: No knurling means turning the shaft with your fingers is useless. Ratcheting is very tight and only useful for initial unscrewing or breaking a screw loose - I found myself using it like a regular screw driver once the screw had no resistance. The bit compartment is incredibly locked in (maybe loosens over time?) and I often had to find something to pry it open. There are opposing finger indents that lead you believe you need to squeeze to release - does nothing. The selector is really rough / stiff.. Non-magnetic

 

Amazon Basics:

Pros: The bit compartment self ejects once you squeeze the tabs, knurling on the shaft. Selector feels good. Grip is.. ok. Bits never stuck to any screws.

 

Cons: Shaft is detachable (Why?), shaft clearly has a hole at the bottom to catch a ball bearing yet.. the input on the handle has no bearing, just a weak magnet and a prayer keeping it in. Shaft is horribly wobbly and adds to an already low-quality feeling. Every time I swap bits, I have to use a finger to hold the shaft as I remove the bit so the whole shaft doesn't come out. Bit size tolerance is a little loose. Ratcheting mechanism is inconsistent, sometimes it starts to seize up ever so slightly (easy to overcome but not a good feeling).

 

Closing thoughts..

The funny thing is, just because of 2 reasons (knurling and ratcheting) I find myself actually using the Amazon Basics more. I want to use the Klein but the overly tight ratchet and lack of knurling push me away. 

 

**Side note: In regards to Linus' deal breaking selector direction - you grab the selector and turn the handle in the direction you're screwing... is the thought manufactures had, I'm sure. This is more of how you use your tools / personal preference in the end though. I can see where if you want to change directions single-handedly using your finger and thumb, it would make sense to do it LTT's way.

 

[IRMacGuyver]

The direction selectors have ALWAYS broken on me so I steer clear of ratcheting screwdrivers.  In a lot of cases even the removable bits have been a problem for me trying to reach tight spaces as to have removable bits the shaft has to be larger than what you can get away with for a normal screwdriver.  Sometimes it's just easier to have multiple drivers out at once than it is to constantly be switching bits.  Plus when you do start switching them a lot that's when you stop bothering to put them back in their place and of course lose them.  

And yes you are right the "normal" way the selectors is the right way for them to work Linus just uses his screwdriver wrong so he uses the wrong way to change the selector.  I've never seen someone use their screwdriver with their fingers as much as him instead of using your whole wrist like normal people.   You do that as much as someone that works with a screwdriver all day like I used to and your fingers wont make it through the day. 

 

Hell even the "stronger and better" magnet is a bad thing.  I have trouble getting magnetized bits onto the screw in tight spaces as it is.  Strengthen the magnet and I'll never be able to square up with a screw in a tight spot cause the driver will constantly stick to the metal nearby. 

[dalekphalm]

I have to say, using a good ratcheting screwdriver is a literal gamechanger if you use a screwdriver a lot. But, you point out a lot of good points about the limitations that some brands have.

 

Most ratcheting screwdrivers will not be "loose" enough to keep ratcheting on a fairly loose screw - but most of them are also designed so that you can hold the shaft (not twisting the shaft with your fingers, just holding it into place) while you ratchet using your hand on the handle. Some are good enough that you can use your fingers to do the ratcheting, but usually you're just holding the shaft stationary and providing some resistance. Knurling is definitely a nice to have, but a well made one can still be operated in this way with a smooth shaft.

 

I've never used either - and I'm not familiar with the Klein brand - maybe they're just not common or available in Canada. I've used a few from some of the more common brands, and we have a Mastercraft set here at the office which works very well.

[RollyShed]

We have dozens of screwdrivers around so never buy. I will admit to using a power drill if there are more than 4 screws to undo or do up. And yes, knowing how to use it so there is no over tensioning. The driver tips are from a box of dozens of different sizes and types. Remember there are about 40 different screw head types. Wiki it for the full range.

[8tg]

S o o n 

[RollyShed]

Is that $145 for that screwdriver set? If so you have to be joking. Something like a $10 set with 2 to 3 times as many  bits would be more reasonable..

[Virus__]

9 hours ago, RollyShed said:

Is that $145 for that screwdriver set? If so you have to be joking. Something like a $10 set with 2 to 3 times as many  bits would be more reasonable..

The LTT screwdriver comes to about that for me after taxes, shipping & currency conversion.. Still cheaper than a Snap On one here in Australia, however.

[Mikensan]

On 9/2/2022 at 9:43 AM, dalekphalm said:

I have to say, using a good ratcheting screwdriver is a literal gamechanger if you use a screwdriver a lot. But, you point out a lot of good points about the limitations that some brands have.

 

Most ratcheting screwdrivers will not be "loose" enough to keep ratcheting on a fairly loose screw - but most of them are also designed so that you can hold the shaft (not twisting the shaft with your fingers, just holding it into place) while you ratchet using your hand on the handle. Some are good enough that you can use your fingers to do the ratcheting, but usually you're just holding the shaft stationary and providing some resistance. Knurling is definitely a nice to have, but a well made one can still be operated in this way with a smooth shaft.

 

I've never used either - and I'm not familiar with the Klein brand - maybe they're just not common or available in Canada. I've used a few from some of the more common brands, and we have a Mastercraft set here at the office which works very well.

Yea I will walk back my initial thoughts on ratcheting screwdrivers after playing with them - I had always thought they were a gimmick. I found the most difference in screwing in flat head screws. Keeping my hand on the handle the entire time with a little bit of pressure helped keep the bit in place. Truly a god send, don't know why I waited so long.

 

It was definitely possible to twist the klein's shaft to help assist screwing, but being shiny / slippery made it require more finger strength to get a good register on it. The knurling has such a positive grip I found it really easy to spin it. Not needed for sure - but it makes a very noticeable difference. I found myself using it for "speed" once screws were loose.

 

I have a bunch of klein stuff for electrical work, this is my first hand tool from them. The feel of it was definitely top notch, but functionality was lacking. This is my first amazon basics hand tool as well - cheap but does get the job done. Haven't come across mastercraft - honestly for screw drivers and alike I'm very unaware of the various brands. 

[dalekphalm]

1 hour ago, Mikensan said:

Yea I will walk back my initial thoughts on ratcheting screwdrivers after playing with them - I had always thought they were a gimmick. I found the most difference in screwing in flat head screws. Keeping my hand on the handle the entire time with a little bit of pressure helped keep the bit in place. Truly a god send, don't know why I waited so long.

Flathead screws just need to die - like seriously, why do they still exist even? When Philips, Robertson, and Torx all exist, and are superior?

 

But I agree - this is probably the best improvement between regular vs ratcheting.

1 hour ago, Mikensan said:

It was definitely possible to twist the klein's shaft to help assist screwing, but being shiny / slippery made it require more finger strength to get a good register on it. The knurling has such a positive grip I found it really easy to spin it. Not needed for sure - but it makes a very noticeable difference. I found myself using it for "speed" once screws were loose.

Knurling is definitely better - for sure, but I've found the smooth shafted ones are still easy to hold in place. Personally, I don't use the "Finger twist" technique like Linus does, where he basically uses his finger on the shaft to turn the screw or ratchet the driver.

1 hour ago, Mikensan said:

I have a bunch of klein stuff for electrical work, this is my first hand tool from them. The feel of it was definitely top notch, but functionality was lacking. This is my first amazon basics hand tool as well - cheap but does get the job done. Haven't come across mastercraft - honestly for screw drivers and alike I'm very unaware of the various brands. 

I've not actually heard of Klein before, but I understand it's a fairly common brand in the US. Unless you live in Canada, you probably have never seen a Mastercraft tool before - they're the Canadian Tire store brand. Their quality is generally "good enough". Not top end premium, but not Amazon garbage either.

 

They also have cheaper sub-brands, like Job Mate, if you just need a cheap tool and don't care too much about the quality.

 

There are so many name brands it's hard to keep track of.

[Lomac]

On 9/3/2022 at 12:32 PM, RollyShed said:

Is that $145 for that screwdriver set? If so you have to be joking. Something like a $10 set with 2 to 3 times as many  bits would be more reasonable..

Good quality tools are expensive. When you're on a job site, the last thing you want is your shitty Princess Auto/Harbor Freight/Amazon Basics tool to break.

[12345678]

1 hour ago, Lomac said:

Good quality tools are expensive. When you're on a job site, the last thing you want is your shitty Princess Auto/Harbor Freight/Amazon Basics tool to break.

the problem is understanding if they are expensive because they are good, or if they are just overpriced

many times you do pay just for the brand, some other you don't,

 

other times you do pay more because of different types of business, they expect to sell less, and ence they raise the pricecap 

some tools are not that consumer, so you do pay like a kidney for it

[12345678]

as for me, I'm happy with my 19/29 cents screwdriver kit with 24 tips

 

 

[Lomac]

27 minutes ago, 12345678 said:

the problem is understanding if they are expensive because they are good, or if they are just overpriced

many times you do pay just for the brand, some other you don't,

 

other times you do pay more because of different types of business, they expect to sell less, and ence they raise the pricecap 

some tools are not that consumer, so you do pay like a kidney for it

True. Way I see it is quality tools are generally expensive, but not all expensive tools are always quality. People who use them will usually know which brands to buy and which ones they can avoid. It's the occasional DIYer that will likely have trouble differentiating good and bad going by price alone if they don't do any research.

 

Personally both the LTT and PB screwdrivers are more than I would spend on a ratcheting screwdriver, but that's because I have an almost zero use case for them. But I'll happily spend hundreds or thousands on Makita, Milwaukee and Ingersol tools because they're usually worth the lack of a headache. I've also spent the time researching what tool would fit my use best, so I'm likely ahead of the curve there.

 

Ill stick with my Klein single piece screwdrivers for every day use, and an Amazon knock off jewelery style 100-1 security bit kit because I only pull it out once or twice a year when a bullshit screw type rears its ugly head.

[Zodiark1593]

On 9/3/2022 at 12:32 PM, RollyShed said:

Is that $145 for that screwdriver set? If so you have to be joking. Something like a $10 set with 2 to 3 times as many  bits would be more reasonable..

When you rely upon them regularly, good tools are absolutely worth the money. There isn’t a lot more infuriating than a tool breaking or otherwise failing on you in the middle of a project, or job. 
 

Sure, could probably buy another $10-$20 set, and still technically come out ahead, but the savings are not worth the lost time, and most importantly, the aggravation and headache. If I use my tools to make money, I want them to work 100% of the time, and will spend quite a hefty premium to get that (or as close as humanly possible).

[12345678]

16 hours ago, Lomac said:

True. Way I see it is quality tools are generally expensive, but not all expensive tools are always quality. People who use them will usually know which brands to buy and which ones they can avoid. It's the occasional DIYer that will likely have trouble differentiating good and bad going by price alone if they don't do any research.

some times you're required to get certified stuff, the problem is that manufacturers don't always respect certifications even if they are branded as such, some other times uncertified stuff might perform better, but they didn't pay for the certification because it's expensive. it's pretty a jungle, I do usually buy the least expensive one, then if it breaks try with something else untill I find a tool that doesn't break lol

 

some other times you're forced to buy from a specific company because of security reasons or some other bs alike, but in reality they have lobbed to pass such laws, so they do not have competitors 

they say that china, russia and whatever are mafias states, but outside there it doesn't look like it works any differently 

 

16 hours ago, Lomac said:

 

Personally both the LTT and PB screwdrivers are more than I would spend on a ratcheting screwdriver, but that's because I have an almost zero use case for them. But I'll happily spend hundreds or thousands on Makita, Milwaukee and Ingersol tools because they're usually worth the lack of a headache. I've also spent the time researching what tool would fit my use best, so I'm likely ahead of the curve there.

I Don't think that they are planning to sell many of those and for that, they are so expensive, probably even the manufacturing itself is expensive, since they aren't likely to have ordered high volume stuff 

as I see they do purposely make stuff hipey to attract more possible customers, but everything about it, or what they do is bullshit in my opinion

I do sometimes watch their videos for entertainment though 

[RasmusDC]

tests quite well the LTT Screwdriver, low on magnetism, that might be an issue, to be honest, i have a cheap Wera, and i like that it has a STRONG magnet, without being an issue.

 

the PB swiss one is QUALITY, but again it is PC´s sometimes to be honest, i have problems with ratchet screwdrivers, because of a fairly short shaft, and thick (sounds a bit dirty) but it is ACCESS that normally is an issue not "a need for ratchet function" however, it is nice when taking a part a case, or working elsewhere than on a PC.

 

The think i however do not LIKE about the PB SWISS Is the lack of bit storage. the idea is you have your bits with you simple, i have a Wera my wife bought me where you change the whole shaft each time, it is simply to big.. to carry around, i like bit drivers more for like.. the "one" driver you have in your car, like when you have the "multitool" it does a bit of everything, but not really anything good. 

[trag1c]

On 9/6/2022 at 10:51 AM, 12345678 said:

the problem is understanding if they are expensive because they are good, or if they are just overpriced

many times you do pay just for the brand, some other you don't,

 

other times you do pay more because of different types of business, they expect to sell less, and ence they raise the pricecap 

some tools are not that consumer, so you do pay like a kidney for it

On 9/6/2022 at 9:03 AM, Lomac said:

Good quality tools are expensive. When you're on a job site, the last thing you want is your shitty Princess Auto/Harbor Freight/Amazon Basics tool to break.

The other thing with high end tools, at least anything MAC, Snap-On or Matco is that if you're tool breaks, they come to you. When I was an automotive tech if one of my tools broke, I could call the rep and he would come running to fix or replace it no questions asked. 

 

You don't get that with cheap tools, so even if a premium tool isn't that great, often the warranty policy and limited down time is.

[Zodiark1593]

On 9/8/2022 at 11:34 AM, trag1c said:

The other thing with high end tools, at least anything MAC, Snap-On or Matco is that if you're tool breaks, they come to you. When I was an automotive tech if one of my tools broke, I could call the rep and he would come running to fix or replace it no questions asked. 

 

You don't get that with cheap tools, so even if a premium tool isn't that great, often the warranty policy and limited down time is.

Tbh, a warranty is not worth it if the tool itself isn’t great. The whole reason for me to spend premium money is to reduce or eliminate downtime as a result of this tool. 

[dalekphalm]

On 9/9/2022 at 11:34 PM, Zodiark1593 said:

Tbh, a warranty is not worth it if the tool itself isn’t great. The whole reason for me to spend premium money is to reduce or eliminate downtime as a result of this tool. 

There's a difference between a tool breaking all the time (every year or two or sooner) vs breaking once every 12 years, and a lifetime warranty means they'll still replace it.

[Mikensan]

Just a follow up - my amazon basics tool has failed (decided to keep it while waiting since it was so dirt cheap). I don't know what the rules are about posting links to videos so I'll avoid for now.. but basically while ratcheting lightly on a screw, the selector will move to the middle thus seizing itself. This happens no matter how you hold it, even with 3 fingers on the very far end of it.

 

I've only used it to replace outlets and such, maybe 80-100 screws total. While driving a screw in, you can hear this really sad whine (metal on metal squeal) and then it just seizes.

 

Currently trying out Amazon's "Trust me bro" warranty - they just asked me to return it and will issue me a refund, I'm roughly about 5 days outside of return policy.

 

So honestly while some may get lucky with cheaper ratcheting drivers, I was not and understand a little more why some do cost more. Also to note, my f'ing wrist hurts so much from using this damn thing.