About the lab head dummies for testing headphones

[krish.raghuram]

I'm talking about these - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwPLhyUgm-g&t=1&ab_channel=LinusTechTips
 

I love the idea of some objective testing. And Linus is clear that "not every customer has an average head".

 

However, I just wanted to nitpick about one thing - The "average human" does not exist - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbiveCNBOxk

 

[emosun]

You could perhaps in the future post this as a comment under the video instead of a forum post

[H713]

The reality is that everyone has a different application. This is no different from any other type of equipment. For headphones, the variable is head size / shape.

 

For objective testing, you standardize on one head size / geometry (or a set of head sizes and geometries) that are a good compromise. This won't be an accurate representation for everyone, but it will be a pretty good representation for a lot of people. 

 

 

This, however, is the reality of lab testing for almost any type of equipment. The tests will be artificial to some degree or another (for example, how often do your speakers present a perfect 8 $\Omega$ resistive load to the amplifier? The answer is never), but because they're standardized, we can still learn from them even if our application is slightly different.

 

 

[cmndr]

Linus knows that the average human doesn't exist.

Linus is trying to target the overall picture and come up with SOME measurements that work pretty well.

Even if Linus got TWO heads of different sizes (so trying to target both small people AND larger people vs just in the middle) I suspect that the overall conclusions would end up similar.

Bad headsets will sound bad for just about everyone.
Great headsets will be great for just about everyone.

 

The part that's tricky is that the exact RANKING of pretty good headphones will shift based on the person. That won't really be unveiled by this type of measurement - it'll merely be useful for figuring out what tier a headphone is.

[kokakolia]

I wholeheartedly agree with the OP. 

 

I know very well that everyone will imply that I'm entirely wrong and ignorant. 

 

I'm growing tired of this internet herd mentality around "objectivity" in the context of audio. 

 

Everyone is taking the moral high ground of "science" to argue that a particular speaker/headphone is great or absolute trash. There's no in-between. Subjective opinions aren't worth squat if they disagree with the measurements. Measurements >>> enjoying the product.

 

The bottom line is that buyers cannot sample products before purchasing so they have to rely on "objective" reviews when considering a product. Now "objective" reviews are the final world. 

 

I'll tell you that if you were in a position to sample many products you'll have a completely different perspective on the hobby. You wouldn't give two hoots about what strangers think on the internet and you'll earn the superpower of listening to music without thinking about the equipment and its minute flaws or graphs. 

 

I mean just imagine calling a movie trash because the colors in a particular scene are oversaturated and the grass looks fluorescent. Nevermind the mind-blowing plot and the great acting. The director sucks because they don't know how to make grass look natural LOL

 

I seriously think that the Audiophile community is more interested in performance graphs than actually hearing music. Are you buying the headphones for the test dummy or yourself!? 

[OfficialTechSpace]

3 hours ago, kokakolia said:

I know very well that everyone will imply that I'm entirely wrong and ignorant.  

If you know, then why say anything at all if not to start trouble? The main point you're struggling to understand is that nobody actually buys anything based on measurements. They're just a reference for those who otherwise understand them, and draw a clearer picture as to what to expect. Tonality is one of them, shown on a FR graph. Subjective opinions are still helpful to a degree, but vary widely by reviewer experience. Words can only explain so much, so we use numbers and charts to back them up... not replace them. Everyone's completely entitled to their own opinion, but that doesn't mean they should all have an equal platform to someone with a greater understanding. Hence why we're drawn towards the In-Ear Fidelity's of the world, we trust their experience. Not just their measurements. It's frustrating that people think they have a right to see big charts and numbers, get offended, and then dub them a pseudo-science just because they subjectively disagree by grounds of their own experience, or lack thereof. Even the lesser argument of "Well, I like it anyways" cool... just like it a little farther over there, and once you've got some more experience come and join the group. **last part wasn't referring to anyone in particular, just venting

 

 

[kokakolia]

"Nobody actually buys anything based on measurements". 

 

That's the most hypocritical thing I heard all year. You can flip the statement around and say "People call products hot garbage without even experiencing them because the measurements are disappointing". 

 

To be clear, I value personal experience over other people's opinions and 'objective measurements'.

 

Somehow this statement is mocked by the folks at ASR who never listen to speakers and prefer to look at graphs instead. I understand that they have this perspective because they have 0 opportunities to listen to other speakers without spending money.

 

So if you're buying a product for hundreds or thousands of dollars based on recommendations alone it better be near perfect. Anything south of perfection is hot garbage. This is the root of the problem: the ASR angry mob mentality. 

 

Please don't flip this discussion into a debate over the scientific method. I'm just saying that the buyer who purchases the speakers for themselves (not ASR, not some test dummy, not you) have the final word. Period. 

 

Ultimately, I want the Audiophile community to be more social and organize Meetups. I want to showcase my system and I want to experience other people's systems. I want to buy/sell/trade components with others. I want to share music recommendations. I don't want to argue through X,Y and Z that a product is 'scientifically' better than another. 

[H713]

Some people seem to miss the point of measurements.

 

The point of measurements is reducing expensive and very time consuming trial-and-error. Whether your preferences are for objectively ideal equipment (flat FR, low distortion, etc) or some other variation isn't really relevant here - the measurements are useful either way.

 

For example, if you know that you really like the characteristics of the Yamaha NS-10 (hint: not for pleasure listening), a careful look at the Yamaha NS-10 frequency response and distortion characteristics can give one a pretty good idea of why they sound the way they do. This can then be used to identify other speakers that may be good candidates for demo. Yes, this does require a bit more of an understanding of how audio equipment works, but it's a much more practical way to buy speakers, especially as it gets increasingly difficult to find places where one can hear a system before making  a purchase.

 

The value of measurements when it comes to amplifiers is a little different, and it's mostly for weeding out equipment with issues. Class AB amplifiers with bias issues (and bias drift issues!), tube amps with unacceptable noise floors, amplifiers that can't actually meet their power specs (this seems to be increasingly common in consumer spaces), class D amplifiers with strong load dependence, crosstalk issues, etc. These are all things that are nearly impossible to glean from a listening test. Something may not sound right (or may not sound right under certain circumstances), but quantifying exactly what's going on is really difficult.