Heat-problems with my 1650 GTX in a mini-ITX case with space-limitations. Should I go Water-cooling?

[addiks]

Hi,

 

I have a small (mini-ITX) budget gaming PC in a small shelve beside my desk. It has a GeForce 1650 GTX, AMD Ryzen 5 2600X, 32GB RAM, Two SSD's (500GB + 1TB) and a 2TB HD. (The 2TB HD, 1TB SSD and 32GB RAM were later Upgrades, originally it was 16GB RAM and only the 500GB SSD.) Originally I bought the PC just for older games or indies, but lately I am moving to more demanding titles like Star Citizen, Doom Eternal or DCS (the last one currently the most).

 

My current issue is that with DCS, the system can become unstable once in a while and freeze completely (This does not happen with Doom Eternal or Star Citizen, interestingly). I suspect that this is because of heat that builds over time in the small case. (The system does not freeze completely in an instant, but is kind of "shutting down" slowly over the course of 1 or 2 minutes until only the mouse moves and the last sound is on repeat. The last time this happened I was quick enough to open the task-manager and then it stopped responding when I tried to switch to the resources tab. At first I thought that the freezing was because of RAM-issues causing the system to swap extensively, so I upgraded to 32GB RAM. But it still happens with 32GB when a big chunk of that RAM is unused. So now the most likely cause would probably be the heat. The windows event-log did not show anything interesting.)
 

The easiest fix for heat-problems in this situation under normal circumstances would be to buy a bigger case and put the computer in a spot with more air-flow, but I live an a small and extremely piled up apartment and I am simply not willing to give up the additional space such a solution would eat up. So, instead of that I am now thinking about buying a water-cooling set to both cool the CPU and GPU externally and have the external radiator outside of that shelve, maybe mounted to a wall or something. I have seen a discounted complete-set for around 150€ which would be well inside my budget of about 200€ - 250€. After reading up on it, most people seem to strongly suggest against water-cooling a 1650 GTX and instead buy a bigger case, for which I don't have the space, or a better GPU, which would currently cost me about 500€ and be simply out of budget.

 

So would watercooling really be my best bet? Is a set for 150€ even worth it? What do you folks think about this situation? Any other suggestions? Thanks for any answers.

[Poinkachu]

10 minutes ago, addiks said:

Hi,

 

I have a small (mini-ITX) budget gaming PC in a small shelve beside my desk. It has a GeForce 1650 GTX, AMD Ryzen 5 2600X, 32GB RAM, Two SSD's (500GB + 1TB) and a 2TB HD. (The 2TB HD, 1TB SSD and 32GB RAM were later Upgrades, originally it was 16GB RAM and only the 500GB SSD.) Originally I bought the PC just for older games or indies, but lately I am moving to more demanding titles like Star Citizen, Doom Eternal or DCS (the last one currently the most).

 

My current issue is that with DCS, the system can become unstable once in a while and freeze completely (This does not happen with Doom Eternal or Star Citizen, interestingly). I suspect that this is because of heat that builds over time in the small case. (The system does not freeze completely in an instant, but is kind of "shutting down" slowly over the course of 1 or 2 minutes until only the mouse moves and the last sound is on repeat. The last time this happened I was quick enough to open the task-manager and then it stopped responding when I tried to switch to the resources tab. At first I thought that the freezing was because of RAM-issues causing the system to swap extensively, so I upgraded to 32GB RAM. But it still happens with 32GB when a big chunk of that RAM is unused. So now the most likely cause would probably be the heat. The windows event-log did not show anything interesting.)
 

The easiest fix for heat-problems in this situation under normal circumstances would be to buy a bigger case and put the computer in a spot with more air-flow, but I live an a small and extremely piled up apartment and I am simply not willing to give up the additional space such a solution would eat up. So, instead of that I am now thinking about buying a water-cooling set to both cool the CPU and GPU externally and have the external radiator outside of that shelve, maybe mounted to a wall or something. I have seen a discounted complete-set for around 150€ which would be well inside my budget of about 200€ - 250€. After reading up on it, most people seem to strongly suggest against water-cooling a 1650 GTX and instead buy a bigger case, for which I don't have the space, or a better GPU, which would currently cost me about 500€ and be simply out of budget.

 

So would watercooling really be my best bet? Is a set for 150€ even worth it? What do you folks think about this situation? Any other suggestions? Thanks for any answers.

Do give a link of the said discounted complete set here.
We can't say it's good or bad, ok or not ok if we don't know the actual thing you want to buy and/or use.
Especially if the process includes tearing your GPU to it's bare die and putting it and components around it in very close proximity with liquid.

[addiks]

I have not decided on an actual set yet, but this is the one I have looked at a bit:
https://www.alternate.de/Alphacool/Eissturm-Gaming-Copper-30-2x140mm-Wasserkühlung/html/product/1426820

If this one does not fit I would buy another one instead, even if a bit more expensive. My current plan is first to decide whether water-cooling is actually a sane solution for my problem, and only after that would I put in the research-work to decide on an actual set.

There are also other sets for around ~200€ - ~250€ which I would also buy if they turn out to be better solutions.

[Poinkachu]

8 minutes ago, addiks said:

I have not decided on an actual set yet, but this is the one I have looked at a bit:
https://www.alternate.de/Alphacool/Eissturm-Gaming-Copper-30-2x140mm-Wasserkühlung/html/product/1426820

If this one does not fit I would buy another one instead, even if a bit more expensive. My current plan is first to decide whether water-cooling is actually a sane solution for my problem, and only after that would I put in the research-work to decide on an actual set.

There are also other sets for around ~200€ - ~250€ which I would also buy if they turn out to be better solutions.

That is for CPU though
https://www.alphacool.com/shop/aios-sets/interne-sets/22288/alphacool-eissturm-gaming-copper-30-2x140mm-komplettset
It's just that they designed this set for the pump to be usable with their GPU watercooling set as well.

You need to buy additional add-ons for the GPU.
Like, the GPU watercooling backplate and/or rads
Example (For gigabyte rtx 3080/3090 gaming eagle):
https://www.alphacool.com/shop/aios-sets/gpu-aio/28494/alphacool-eiswolf-2-aio-360mm-rtx-3080/3090-gaming/eagle-mit-backplate?c=21224

[addiks]

The description of that set says that it can also cool the GPU, so it should probably be fine. But even if it does not include a block for the GPU, I would probably have to buy a GPU-block that fits my card separately anyway. As I said, the actual set is not my current main concern, but if water-cooling is even the right answer to this problem at all. I'm not going to buy a set right now anyway, I would put in additional research after I have made up my mind on whether to water-cool or not and only then decide on a specific set.

[aisle9]

A GTX 1650 should not have any thermal issues whatsoever, and watercooling one is certifiably insane. What case are you using, and when you say "small shelf", what does that mean exactly? I would put good money on this being caused by a small, iffy-ventilated ITX case placed in a shelf with inadequate airflow, not a GPU issue.

[addiks]

I would also be fine with only cooling the CPU at first and only later upgrade to GPU-cooling if it proves necessary. DCS is as a simulator more CPU-heavy anyway.

 

And as I have written in my original post, I know that this system very likely has air-flow problems. I just cannot do anything about these air-flow problems at the moment. I would have to move to a bigger apartment in order to fit a bigger case in a more ventilated space just to solve the heat-problems of my gaming-PC, which seems even more insane.

[Poinkachu]

10 minutes ago, addiks said:

The description of that set says that it can also cool the GPU, so it should probably be fine. But even if it does not include a block for the GPU, I would probably have to buy a GPU-block that fits my card separately anyway. As I said, the actual set is not my current main concern, but if water-cooling is even the right answer to this problem at all. I'm not going to buy a set right now anyway, I would put in additional research after I have made up my mind on whether to water-cool or not and only then decide on a specific set.

IMHO, Watercooling is usually the solution if thermal problem occurs on various conditions and/or situations.
But since you said it only occurs with DCS and not the other 2 games.... and we don't exactly know the thermal when playing it.
Also, why not monitor the GPU & CPU  using overlay while playing the game and see how hot it is ?
May as well check if the game have a memory leak or something, I know Warzone can eat a shit ton amount of ram over some period of time.

[aisle9]

5 minutes ago, addiks said:

I would also be fine with only cooling the CPU at first and only later upgrade to GPU-cooling if it proves necessary. DCS is as a simulator more CPU-heavy anyway.

 

And as I have written in my original post, I know that this system very likely has air-flow problems. I just cannot do anything about these air-flow problems at the moment. I would have to move to a bigger apartment in order to fit a bigger case in a more ventilated space just to solve the heat-problems of my gaming-PC, which seems even more insane.

Ok, so here's the issue: watercooling is not refrigeration. It's still passive cooling, bound to the environment it's in. The hot exhaust does not go away, nor does liquid cooling solve the problem of airflow. If your system is in a semi-enclosed space with an ambient temp of 32C because of all that hot exhaust, the cooler will be working with 32C intake air, and that's going to severely limit your cooling.

 

Is there a way to place the computer someplace more open, or open up the space it's in by pulling it back from the wall so exhaust air has more of an escape route? I'm not trying to be difficult, just trying to help you save some money, because liquid cooling a GTX 1650 will cost a ton of money and result in negligible gains. Watercooling a CPU in that environment won't be worth it either.

[Poinkachu]

4 minutes ago, aisle9 said:

Ok, so here's the issue: watercooling is not refrigeration. It's still passive cooling, bound to the environment it's in. The hot exhaust does not go away, nor does liquid cooling solve the problem of airflow. If your system is in a semi-enclosed space with an ambient temp of 32C because of all that hot exhaust, the cooler will be working with 32C intake air, and that's going to severely limit your cooling.

 

Is there a way to place the computer someplace more open, or open up the space it's in by pulling it back from the wall so exhaust air has more of an escape route? I'm not trying to be difficult, just trying to help you save some money, because liquid cooling a GTX 1650 will cost a ton of money and result in negligible gains. Watercooling a CPU in that environment won't be worth it either.

Simple way that can be tried : Buy a fan, duct tape it on the side panel holes.

And I agree, buying the waterblock and other stuffs (if there's actually one for 1650) gonna cost more than 150.

[aisle9]

Just now, Poinkachu said:

Simple way that can be tried : Buy a fan, put it at the side panel holes.

And I agree, buying the waterblock and other stuffs (if there's actually one for 1650) gonna cost more than 150.

The only thing I could think of to maybe help the problem given @addikslimitations would be removing all top and side ventilation and reversing airflow in the case, so the rear fan is the intake and the front fan exhausts. You still run into the serious issue of choking off your intake, but imo that's better than an intake fan pulling in exhaust air. Any form of AIO cooling (CPU or GPU) in that environment will result in minimal temp gains at high cost.

[Poinkachu]

Just now, aisle9 said:

The only thing I could think of to maybe help the problem given @addikslimitations would be removing all top and side ventilation and reversing airflow in the case, so the rear fan is the intake and the front fan exhausts. You still run into the serious issue of choking off your intake, but imo that's better than an intake fan pulling in exhaust air. Any form of AIO cooling (CPU or GPU) in that environment will result in minimal temp gains at high cost.

Well, in essence :
many things to try and/or investigate. Especially if it's about "small enclosure heat problem" before going into custom watercooling.
Including but not limited to taking off detachable sides like you said.

Because like OP said, it happens with 1 game out of three.

[addiks]

Well, I don't really see a way to put the computer into a more open space. Or at least not without sacrificing a lot of scarce living-space. And I'm not thinking that you are very difficult at all, I'm thankful that anyone answered at all.

 

The only thing that I could do is opening up the case completely, but then I would risk stuff getting into the case that is not supposed to be there. Like the Neighbors cats or my feet.

Thanks for the hint of taping an additional fan on the case. Maybe I try that before.

 

I have used an overlay a few months back before the RAM upgrade. If I remember correctly the CPU temps went above 90°C. Back then the RAM-upgrade seemed like it would be worth a try (DCS and Star Citizen both benefit from 32GB anyway, so that was worth it even if it did not solve my problem). I will try to monitor the temps again on my next session and report back.

 

The Idea with water-cooling is that I could take the heat out of that space-limited area into a more open space without wasting a lot of space. A radiator is a lot smaller then the whole computer. I would just need a pipe that is long enough.

[derr12]

if your 2700x has been hitting 90, I find myself wondering if your cpu cooler isnt fully seated right, those are 65w and i think on the stock cooler i was pulling something like 65c in a decent case.

[jaslion]

On 6/15/2022 at 5:01 PM, addiks said:

I would also be fine with only cooling the CPU at first and only later upgrade to GPU-cooling if it proves necessary. DCS is as a simulator more CPU-heavy anyway.

 

And as I have written in my original post, I know that this system very likely has air-flow problems. I just cannot do anything about these air-flow problems at the moment. I would have to move to a bigger apartment in order to fit a bigger case in a more ventilated space just to solve the heat-problems of my gaming-PC, which seems even more insane.

You can just get a better itx case? It's gonna be cheaper.

 

What case do you have now?

 

watercooling isn't magic. A bad airflow case with watercooling can easily still overheat because the case doesn't have enough airflow.

[jaslion]

On 6/15/2022 at 5:18 PM, addiks said:

Well, I don't really see a way to put the computer into a more open space. Or at least not without sacrificing a lot of scarce living-space. And I'm not thinking that you are very difficult at all, I'm thankful that anyone answered at all.

 

The only thing that I could do is opening up the case completely, but then I would risk stuff getting into the case that is not supposed to be there. Like the Neighbors cats or my feet.

Thanks for the hint of taping an additional fan on the case. Maybe I try that before.

 

I have used an overlay a few months back before the RAM upgrade. If I remember correctly the CPU temps went above 90°C. Back then the RAM-upgrade seemed like it would be worth a try (DCS and Star Citizen both benefit from 32GB anyway, so that was worth it even if it did not solve my problem). I will try to monitor the temps again on my next session and report back.

 

The Idea with water-cooling is that I could take the heat out of that space-limited area into a more open space without wasting a lot of space. A radiator is a lot smaller then the whole computer. I would just need a pipe that is long enough.

I think showing a picture of the current situation can be super helpful to figure out the best course of action. Because it might be as simple as modifying the case a bit or just changing the case out for another option instead of having to do a crazy watercooling loop that costs more than your gpu :p. That and there are NO blocks for the gtx 1650. Which means those "universal blocks" are needed and those need to have thermal GLUED (pretty bad stuff) small heatsinks to the card and GOOD airflow over the card still.