Looks like I may have to rethink PCIe4/5 M.2s...

[An0maly_76]

I really thought long and hard before I returned the WD Black SN850 I ordered, ultimately because I didn't see the point of risking heat damage to my motherboard for something that offered little to no performance gains over a cooler-running version. Then I found this tonight... How long have these been around? I've not seen or heard of these before.

 

https://www.amazon.com/NVMe-Cooler-Heatsinks-Powerful-Cooling/dp/B07DGK8PWR

Edited March 29, 2022 by An0maly_76
Revised

[191x7]

I wouldn't put a fan like that in my PC. The chipset fan on my X570-P is more than enough to drive me nuts.

And I bet those aren't reliable.

[An0maly_76]

1 minute ago, 191x7 said:

I wouldn't put a fan like that in my PC. The chipset fan on my X570-P is more than enough to drive me nuts.

And I bet those aren't reliable.

SATA power, so, who knows. Just an interesting find I thought i'd ask about. I think the bigger issue is whether I'd want an NVMe that runs 90-100C against my motherboard either way.

[Kilrah]

An NVMe woulldn't run at 100°C, and even if it did your mobo wouldn't give 2 hoots about it. 

[An0maly_76]

19 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

An NVMe woulldn't run at 100°C, and even if it did your mobo wouldn't give 2 hoots about it. 

 

To clarify, I'm not pointing this out to argue or say that I know everything. But several reviewers have done thermal imaging and noted temps of 90-100  with the likes of Kingston and WD Black series under heavy use. And considering I am running a Zen3 Ryzen that can hit 75-85C with air-cooling, I really don't think I'll take that chance, considering anything above 3,500 Mbps isn't noticeably that much faster anyway.

Edited March 29, 2022 by An0maly_76
Revised

[RONOTHAN##]

10 minutes ago, An0maly_76 said:

 

Several reviewers have done thermal imaging and noted temps of 90-100  with the likes of Kingston and WD Black series under heavy use. And considering I am running a Zen3 Ryzen that can hit 75-85C with air-cooling, I really don't think I'll take that chance, considering anything above 3,500 Mbps isn't noticeably that much faster anyway.

The VRMs on most motherboards are designed to run hotter than that, and you don't see midrange motherboard VRMs bursting into flames. 90-100C isn't that bad for a motherboard, you're underestimating just how heat resilient components are these days.

 

If you did care, a simple heatsink would do. NVMe drives might run hot, but they don't output much heat (they're two very different things). It's a couple watts at most, easily dissipated by a 2 dollar heatsink on eBay. Don't go thinking you need to strap a fan to your M.2 because it's just gonna make your PC worse (louder and isn't going to improve temps that much). 

[An0maly_76]

Where did I say they would burst into flames? I was just concerned about the effects of long-term exposure to unnecessary heat. Excessive heat does kill components over time, we all know that. If it didn't, we wouldn't need these fancy things called fans and heat sinks. I already knew cooling would be a challenge in my build... 5900X, RTX3060ti... And it seems I was right. I have a good case with six 120mm fans and a good air-cooler for the CPU. In my average use, it rarely tops 63C, but this thing still hits 75-85 package temp running Cinebench R23. I've noted motherboard / chipset temps of 40-50C.

Edited March 29, 2022 by An0maly_76
Revised

[RONOTHAN##]

1 minute ago, An0maly_76 said:

75-85 package temp running Cinebench R23

That's expected and well within spec for the 5900X and motherboard. 

 

1 minute ago, An0maly_76 said:

I was just concerned about the effects of long-term exposure to unnecessary heat.

Again, low to midrange motherboards have their VRMs run hotter than a SN850 would run. These low to midrange boards still last plenty long. it's not actually a big deal. Besides, the drive doesn't come into contact with the board in more than 2 places (the connector and the screw hold down), meaning it won't put heat into the board directly, putting less heat overall into the board than a CPU, a GPU (GPUs do push a lot of hot air directly onto the board instead of just passively radiating it towards to board), or a VRM. 

[mariushm]

The actual controller chip on the SSD may reach 90 degrees or whatever, when you're writing a lot of data. The SSD is designed to spread the heat across the length of the M.2 drive - even the sticker on the SSD is thermally conductive, taking heat from the controller and spreading it across and over the flash memory chips.

 

Yes, it gets hot but it's a localized and tiny source of heat, in the grand scheme of things it's nothing significant.  As an analogy, think of it like lightning a match, the match is very hot if you get the fingers close to the flame but how many matches would you have to light up to heat up the air inside your room? 

 

The SSD is a source of heat, but compared to the amount of heat the CPU produces and the video card produces and the VRM powering the CPU produces and the RAM itself produces, the heat from the SSD is nothing. 

 

You're also not writing data continuously so the SSD will not run at that temperature all the time. You're worrying for no reason..

 

[An0maly_76]

7 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

That's expected and well within spec for the 5900X and motherboard. 

 

Again, low to midrange motherboards have their VRMs run hotter than a SN850 would run. These low to midrange boards still last plenty long. it's not actually a big deal. Besides, the drive doesn't come into contact with the board in more than 2 places (the connector and the screw hold down), meaning it won't put heat into the board directly, putting less heat overall into the board than a CPU, a GPU (GPUs do push a lot of hot air directly onto the board instead of just passively radiating it towards to board), or a VRM. 

So, not as big a deal as it might have been made out to be by others.

 

I guess I'm a bit hair-trigger with such things, not just in regard to my equipment, but because I myself am sensitive to heat. I have respiratory problems that trigger asthma-like symptoms above 68F (20C), so I also don't need my PC generating any more heat than necessary from a health stand point. Not something most people have to consider.

Edited March 29, 2022 by An0maly_76
Revised, more info

[Alex Atkin UK]

1 hour ago, An0maly_76 said:

So, not as big a deal as it might have been made out to be by others.

 

I guess I'm a bit hair-trigger with such things, not just in regard to my equipment, but because I myself am sensitive to heat. I have respiratory problems that trigger asthma-like symptoms above 68F (20C), so I also don't need my PC generating any more heat than necessary from a health stand point. Not something most people have to consider.

I'm not good with heat either, but 1-2W is literally nothing and especially as its never going to be under enough load to consistently output that.  Heat from the SSD is literally the last thing you should be worrying about.  Getting a higher end PSU could potentially save double-digit watts of heat, but even there its not worth it.

Turning the brightness down a notch or two on the monitor would save more than than the SSD.  Plus NAND by its nature retains data for longer if its written to hotter.

[An0maly_76]

32 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

I'm not good with heat either, but 1-2W is literally nothing and especially as its never going to be under enough load to consistently output that.  Heat from the SSD is literally the last thing you should be worrying about.  Getting a higher end PSU could potentially save double-digit watts of heat, but even there its not worth it.

Turning the brightness down a notch or two on the monitor would save more than than the SSD.  Plus NAND by its nature retains data for longer if its written to hotter.

When you put it like that, yeah, I guess. Still, there's that pesky bang for the buck thing. Can't justify another $100-$140 if I barely notice the difference from the SN570.

[Kilrah]

3 hours ago, An0maly_76 said:

Can't justify another $100-$140 if I barely notice the difference from the SN570.

Staying on gen3 does make sense since you're very unlikely to load it to a point where you would see any difference under most use cases. But heat isn't much of a reason, especially since to get it that hot you'd... need to load it heavily, which as per the previous sentence is unlikely to happen in the first place. 

[An0maly_76]

3 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

Staying on gen3 does make sense since you're very unlikely to load it to a point where you would see any difference under most use cases. But heat isn't much of a reason, especially since to get it that hot you'd... need to load it heavily, which as per the previous sentence is unlikely to happen in the first place. 

Yeah, I see CPUs, motherboards and RAM having to get quite a bit faster before PCIe4 or PCIe5 really start making sense.

Edited March 29, 2022 by An0maly_76
Revised, more info

[Alex Atkin UK]

2 hours ago, An0maly_76 said:

Yeah, I see CPUs, motherboards and RAM having to get quite a bit faster before PCIe4 or PCIe5 really start making sense.

DirectStorage is where the speed comes in for gamers, not needing as much GPU memory as it can be directly pulled into VRAM on a seconds notice from a fast SSD rather than the current situation where assets you "might" need have to be pulled into VRAM long before they are used, if they ever are.

Though even on PS5 we've seen Ratchet & Clank doesn't need PCIe 4 speed to do that, but its something that no doubt will be useful going forward, were just many years off that as few games are even targeting a basic SSD at this point, never mind a fast one.

[Robchil]

if air cooling don't cool enough start watercooling.... 

for your m.2 

https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Custom-Cooling/Accessories/Hydro-X-Series-XM2-M-2-SSD-Water-Block-(2280)/p/CX-9029002-WW

[An0maly_76]

58 minutes ago, Robchil said:

if air cooling don't cool enough start watercooling.... 

for your m.2 

https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Custom-Cooling/Accessories/Hydro-X-Series-XM2-M-2-SSD-Water-Block-(2280)/p/CX-9029002-WW