Advice On MOBO Upgrade :)

[killerson69]

Budget (including currency): $200 USD

Country: US

Other details (existing parts lists, whether any peripherals are needed, what you're upgrading from, when you're going to buy, what resolution and refresh rate you want to play at, etc): 

I'm looking to upgrade my MOBO from the MSI B450 Tomahawk MAX. My issue with my current board is the amount USB IO (five plugs), secondary is that I would like another M.2 slot. I tried peaking around in PCPartPicker, but there's no narrowing criteria for rear IO from what I can tell, leaving the only option to click on every board and hope they have a good picture of the IO (Spoiler, a lot of them don't). Apart from that and googling it, which I have done and received very unhelpful results, I was hoping one of the fine LTT patrons might know of a board, or inform me that it's a pipe dream and to just suck it up and get a USB hub.

 

Thanks!

[An0maly_76]

So you want more than 5 USB ports, and a second M.2 slot -- for wifi, or for another M.2 SSD?

 

I assume you have an AMD Ryzen from the B450, but specifically which one, and what, if any plans are there to upgrade in the future?

Edited March 29, 2022 by An0maly_76
Revised, more info

[killerson69]

4 minutes ago, An0maly_76 said:

I assume you have an AMD Ryzen from the B450, but specifically which one, and what, if any plans are there to upgrade in the future?

R5 3600 Currently. I might upgrade in the future. The reason that I'm looking for more USB IO is that I'm getting VR here soon and need more slots so I don't have to swap USBs constantly.

 

So, depending on how my CPU handles VR. (Don't think, fingers crossed, that it will have a problem.) I may or may not be upgrading the bad boy in probably 6mo-1yr.

 

Edit to expanded question: second M.2 slot for a second SSD

[191x7]

3 minutes ago, killerson69 said:

R5 3600 Currently. I might upgrade in the future. The reason that I'm looking for more USB IO is that I'm getting VR here soon and need more slots so I don't have to swap USBs constantly.

 

So, depending on how my CPU handles VR. (Don't think, fingers crossed, that it will have a problem.) I may or may not be upgrading the bad boy in probably 6mo-1yr.

 

Edit to expanded question: second M.2 slot for a second SSD

B450 Tomahawk Max has enough PCI-E ports to use things like these:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wouldn't those solve your issues?

[An0maly_76]

Honestly, most boards aren't going to have much more than 5-8 USB ports.

 

As for VR, hopefully I'm wrong, but I think you're going to want to step up to Zen3 for that, and I really don't think I'd trust a B450 for a Zen3, either. Zen3 = more heat, which means the need for more cooling. And it also means a board with better VRM cooling.

 

Another question, do you foresee a need for USB 3.2 Gen2? Some boards have direct front-panel connections for this, most don't.

 

Here's an Asus Tuf Gaming B550 PLUS, which I used in my 5900X build. However, I discovered a little too late in the game that the Corsair 4000X case I used had two front panel I/O cables, one of them a USB 3.2 Gen 2 that requires a special header that the B550 Plus does not have.

 

However, the Asus Tuf Gaming B550 PRO does have this header, if that's a consideration. I made the Plus hook up with a splitter cable and adapters, but it's kind of janky and may not deliver true 3.2 Gen 2 speed.

 

As for more USB ports, I used this PCIe card with USB 3.2 Gen 2 ports. There are others out there of various design.

Edited March 29, 2022 by An0maly_76
Revised

[killerson69]

2 minutes ago, 191x7 said:

B450 Tomahawk Max has enough PCI-E ports to use things like these:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wouldn't those solve your issues?

Ah, it would indeed if only I didn't have this monster of a GPU: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/DBvdnQ/gigabyte-geforce-rtx-3070-ti-8-gb-aorus-master-video-card-gv-n307taorus-m-8gd

 

Edit: I didn't actually know those were a thing. Thank you for that, though

[191x7]

4 minutes ago, killerson69 said:

Ah, it would indeed if only I didn't have this monster of a GPU: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/DBvdnQ/gigabyte-geforce-rtx-3070-ti-8-gb-aorus-master-video-card-gv-n307taorus-m-8gd

 

Edit: I didn't actually know those were a thing. Thank you for that, though

Guess what...

 

 

Also, if you'd add one of those cards with a ton of USB3 ports you could add an external M.2 NVME to USB enclosure and use an NVME SSD as an external drive.

A friend of mine runs his second Windows OS from such a setup, and games from it (PUBG).

[killerson69]

4 minutes ago, An0maly_76 said:

Honestly, most boards aren't going to have much more than 5-8 USB ports.

 

As for VR, hopefully I'm wrong, but I think you're going to want to step up to Zen3 for that, and I really don't think I'd trust a B450 for a Zen3, either. Zen3 = more heat, which means the need for more cooling. And it also means a board with better VRM cooling.

 

Another question, do you foresee a need for USB 3.2 Gen2? Some boards have direct front-panel connections for this, most don't.

 

Here's an Asus Tuf Gaming B550 PLUS, which I used in my 5900X build. However, I discovered a little too late in the game that the Corsair 4000X case I used had two front panel I/O cables, one of them a USB 3.2 Gen 2 that requires a special header that the B550 Plus does not have.

 

However, the Asus Tuf Gaming B550 PRO does have this header, if that's a consideration. I made the Plus hook up with a splitter cable and adapters, but it's kind of janky and may not deliver true 3.2 Gen 2 speed.

 

As for more USB ports, I used this PCIe card with USB 3.2 Gen 2 ports. There are others out there of various design.

I would love to be able to use a PCI-e card, now that I know they are a thing. Problem is, is that my GPU (linked above) blocks every single PCI slot...
I'll take a look at the MOBOs you have listed. I don't foresee a need for Gen2 headers, my current case has Gen 1 and I don't see myself changing out my case anytime soon.

[killerson69]

1 minute ago, 191x7 said:

Guess what...

 

 

Also, if you'd add one of those cards with a ton of USB3 ports you could add an external M.2 NVME to USB enclosure and use an NVME SSD as an external drive.

A friend of mine runs his second Windows OS from such a setup, and games from it (PUBG).

"Also, if you'd add one of those cards with a ton of USB3 ports you could add an external M.2 NVME to USB enclosure and use an NVME SSD as an external drive.

A friend of mine runs his second Windows OS from such a setup, and games from it (PUBG)."

 

Correct me if I'm wrong or misunderstanding, but wouldn't connecting an M.2 NVME through USB defeat the entire purpose?

[An0maly_76]

9 minutes ago, killerson69 said:

I would love to be able to use a PCI-e card, now that I know they are a thing. Problem is, is that my GPU (linked above) blocks every single PCI slot...
I'll take a look at the MOBOs you have listed. I don't foresee a need for Gen2 headers, my current case has Gen 1 and I don't see myself changing out my case anytime soon.

They do make these... And I'm sure they'll be available in 3.2 in the near future.

 

As for the mobo upgrade. I always say it's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. No sense in buying a cheaper board now and then realize you need better and then have to buy a more expensive board anyway. And I'm pretty confident VR is going to push you to Zen3 sooner or later. The 3600 is a capable processor, don't get me wrong, but I'm thinking you're going to want a minimum of eight cores, maybe twelve, and at least twelve threads, which puts you squarely in Zen3 territory, and these are some hot, power-hungry chips.

 

Also, OP, M.2 slots. Some are M-key, some are E-key. They are not interchangeable. One is for NVMe drives, the other is for wifi and Bluetooth cards.

Edited March 29, 2022 by An0maly_76
Revised, more info

[191x7]

We live in interesting times.

 

USB3.2 2x2 over Type-C supports 2500MBps, meaning it wouldn't bottleneck a lot of the M.2 SSD-s on the market. 

That's fast.

[An0maly_76]

6 minutes ago, 191x7 said:

We live in interesting times.

 

USB3.2 2x2 over Type-C supports 2500MBps, meaning it wouldn't bottleneck a lot of the M.2 SSD-s on the market. 

That's fast.

The expansion card I have is 20 Gbps, divided across each single C port and trio of A-ports, for 10Gbps per group.

[killerson69]

34 minutes ago, An0maly_76 said:

Honestly, most boards aren't going to have much more than 5-8 USB ports.

 

As for VR, hopefully I'm wrong, but I think you're going to want to step up to Zen3 for that, and I really don't think I'd trust a B450 for a Zen3, either. Zen3 = more heat, which means the need for more cooling. And it also means a board with better VRM cooling.

 

Another question, do you foresee a need for USB 3.2 Gen2? Some boards have direct front-panel connections for this, most don't.

 

Here's an Asus Tuf Gaming B550 PLUS, which I used in my 5900X build. However, I discovered a little too late in the game that the Corsair 4000X case I used had two front panel I/O cables, one of them a USB 3.2 Gen 2 that requires a special header that the B550 Plus does not have.

 

However, the Asus Tuf Gaming B550 PRO does have this header, if that's a consideration. I made the Plus hook up with a splitter cable and adapters, but it's kind of janky and may not deliver true 3.2 Gen 2 speed.

 

As for more USB ports, I used this PCIe card with USB 3.2 Gen 2 ports. There are others out there of various design.

I'm actually liking the look of the 550 Plus. It affords me the upgradability for a CPU, which, if I'm being honest with myself I will more than likely be doing. And, the seven USB A with the C is exactly what I was looking for.

 

Everyone's given me some great options to consider. Thank you all! Please continue the discussion, as I would love to keep reading your thoughts!

Edited March 29, 2022 by killerson69
Spelling

[An0maly_76]

Just now, killerson69 said:

I'm actually liking the look of the 550 Plus. It affords me the upgradability for a CPU, which, if I'm being honest with myself I will more than likely be doing. And, the seven USB A with the C I exactly what I was looking for.

 

Everyone's given me some great options to consider. Thank you all! Please continue the discussion, as I would love to keep reading your thoughts!

Be aware, OP, that even these boards may require a BIOS update when upgrading to Zen3. So if it does not already support Zen3, and the board does not support BIOS flashing via USB, you will need to temporarily install your 3600 to update the BIOS. Not a big deal in your situation, as you have a processor supported by an older BIOS, just be aware that it may be necessary. You can usually check the serial number with the manufacturer to see when the board was built and what BIOS version it shipped with. I got lucky -- My B550 Plus was built January 2022 and shipped with the later BIOS, so my 5900X fired up happily and said, "What now, boss?"

[killerson69]

7 minutes ago, An0maly_76 said:

Be aware, OP, that even these boards may require a BIOS update when upgrading to Zen3. So if it does not already support Zen3, and the board does not support BIOS flashing via USB, you will need to temporarily install your 3600 to update the BIOS. Not a big deal in your situation, as you have a processor supported by an older BIOS, just be aware that it may be necessary. You can usually check the serial number with the manufacturer to see when the board was built and what BIOS version it shipped with. I got lucky -- My B550 Plus was built January 2022 and shipped with the later BIOS, so my 5900X fired up happily and said, "What now, boss?"

Thank you for the heads up. I will definitely keep that in mind and hope I just get lucky like you did, lol

[mariushm]

Some Gigabyte boards have a lot of USB ports on the back, but some are usb 2.0 (which should be fine for keyboard, mouse, printers etc)

 

For example  Gigabyte B550 Aorus Pro V2 :  https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-b550-aorus-pro-v2/p/N82E16813145271?Item=N82E16813145271

 

You get 6 usb 2.0 , 4 usb 3 ( 2  5gbps  , 2 10gbps) , and 1 usb type c  (10gbps) on the back , 2.5 gbps ethernet , and you get  usb type c front panel header,  1 usb 3 5gbps header and 2 usb 2 headers on motherboard.

It's decently priced, reasonable board. 

 

The older B550 Aorus Pro AC is a bit cheaper but has same usb connector count : https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-b550-aorus-pro-ac/p/N82E16813145216?Item=N82E16813145216

It has wireless as a bonus but loses the usb type c front panel header and the pci-e lane allocation kinda sucks (the 2nd and 3rd pci-e slots are x4 and x2 , but they degrade to x2 and x1 I think if you install nvme SSD in 2nd m.2 connector)

 

The cheaper mATX  Gigabyte B550M Aorus Pro-P  (which I currently own in my system) is also good : https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-b550m-aorus-pro-p/p/N82E16813145256?Item=N82E16813145256

 

At $130, you get 4 usb 2.0, 4 usb 3.0 5gbps , 2 usb 3 10gbps (1 type a and 1 type c) and  usb 2/3 headers (but no front panel header). Would be perfect for a 3600 / 5600 - I currently have it paired with a 5800x.   No pci-e lane issues, but if you have a thick video card, the 2nd pci-e x16 slot may be obstructed.... doesn't matter if you only have a video card.

 

 

MSI boards are kinda weak at USB on io shield ... maybe MSI B550 Torpedo would be worth it, but it's kinda rare and not available everywhere. Of course Unify and high end models have lots, but we're talking 100$ extra boards 

 

Asus boards have more usb connectors (than MSI), but personally I don't keep track of them as in my region they're much more expensive for no reason (basically they're counting on the brand name to charge more money)