100% CPU Usage at all times, can't find the cause

[TheFunShovel]

Hey LTT friends,

 

I've spent the last 2 days trying to find solutions to my 100% CPU woes and finally came across this thread in here from October: CPU 100% Usage at all times - Troubleshooting - Linus Tech Tips

Interestingly, I have the exact same problem, same MOBO (well, same chipset), same boot drive, and same CPU as OP. Reading his thread was like deja vu of my last two nights trying to troubleshoot this. I've tried everything he tried in the thread and also had no luck. Googling and trying random online solutions also was no help. So... Help me LTT friends, you're my only hope.

 

Symptoms of my problem:

• 100% CPU usage in task manager at all times, CPU temps up to 60-70c.
• Task manager processes don't always add up to 100%, it just shows 100% at the top
• At times there will be ZERO usage in anything in the process column, yet the 100% at the top still persists (along with the high temps)
• Processes (when they do show on task manager) take up way more CPU% than they should
• Random "program" in startup with a broken pathway to something in windows/synaptics (weird issue to have on a clean install of windows I think?)
• WMI errors and plenty of them
• Problem persists even after a windows reset where no new drivers or updates were installed. Literally 100% CPU usage immediately upon starting a freshly reset windows. Even put the thing right in safe mode with no networking, still the same problem.

Interesting consideration:

This issue used to only happen sometimes, and I'd restart the computer and it would (usually) go away. But I finally got annoyed and said "forget it, I'm wiping this clean!" thinking a fresh install of windows would solve the periodic issue. Now not only did it not solve the issue, but it's also no longer a periodic issue. It's an all the time issue. No amount of restarting is helping.

 

So... what are your thoughts? Is there a way to wipe windows that is more thorough than the windows reset option in the support/recovery? Should I try an old-school "format the boot drive and load windows from a USB" method? A reset seemed to solve OP's problem, but I've tried three times with no luck, utilizing the Windows built in "reset" method (and I was sure to select the option to have it wipe all files).

 

Thanks for your time all,

 

-TheFunShovel

 

Specs:

Windows 10 - Fully updated to recent version (as of now)

Mobo: MSI MPG Z490 Gaming Edge Wifi

CPU: Intel i7-10700k

Ram: 32GB

GPU: MSI Ventus GeForce RTX 3080

Drives: Boot drive is a Samsung SSD (m.2, 970EVO) with two attached SATA ssds for storage

[Cr33ps]

What I think it could be:

1. It says it is at 100% usage but it is not (task manager glitch)

2. Something to do with your power setting

3.Try and disable all startup apps

4.Scan with windows defender or an anti-virus, could be a hardware virus

5.Download a program that checks your PC and see if there is an issue

 

Hope this helps

[Mattias Edeslatt]

Does the problem go away if you boot to a Live-USB with Linux for example? Start the Live-USB and start system monitor. If everything is normal then you know that it isn't a hardware-related error and the problem is on your current boot-disk.

 

Also, when in Linux, start the disk-manager like gparted and remove the partitions on the HDD, then reboot to Windows install-USB and let it create a new partition and file-system from scratch.

[TheFunShovel]

4 minutes ago, Cr33ps said:

What I think it could be:

1. It says it is at 100% usage but it is not (task manager glitch)

2. Something to do with your power setting

3.Try and disable all startup apps

4.Scan with windows defender or an anti-virus, could be a hardware virus

5.Download a program that checks your PC and see if there is an issue

 

Hope this helps

Thanks so much, I was hoping for a task manager glitch, but the increase in my temps definitely shows the CPU is "under load" of some sort. I've tried resetting power settings, disabling all startup apps, scanning with windows defender, but I have not downloaded any third party programs yet (I'm always worried about malware pretending to be a PC checker.)

[Mattias Edeslatt]

Also, be sure to boot to the Live-USB from a completely shutdown PC, no reboot as the "program" can be persistent in memory or boot-record on the system.

 

There are something that is hiding from the normal windows reset even if you "wipe the drive" before reinstalling Windows.

[TheFunShovel]

3 minutes ago, Mattias Edeslatt said:

Does the problem go away if you boot to a Live-USB with Linux for example? Start the Live-USB and start system monitor. If everything is normal then you know that it isn't a hardware-related error and the problem is on your current boot-disk.

 

Also, when in Linux, start the disk-manager like gparted and remove the partitions on the HDD, then reboot to Windows install-USB and let it create a new partition and file-system from scratch.

I have never used Linux before so I have no idea how to do any of what you just said, haha. But I'm sure I can Google it and give it a shot when I'm off work in the next few hours. Thanks!

 

I'm willing to try anything. I just got my hands on a 3080 and thought to myself, "I finally have a gaming rig I'm proud of" just to have this shenanigans start.

[Mattias Edeslatt]

I am sure you could do the same thing from a Windows install-USB. I haven't installed a Windows system for more then a decade now, so I have no idea of how you do it in Windows 10/11. But there is surely a guide on how to do a remove partitions and reinstall Windows from scratch.

 

EDIT:

How to: Perform a Clean Install or Reinstall of Windows 10

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/forum/all/how-to-perform-a-clean-install-or-reinstall-of/aef0ae63-2117-41ee-a8ea-4a3181625b08

[TheFunShovel]

Just now, Mattias Edeslatt said:

I am sure you could do the same thing from a Windows install-USB. I haven't installed a Windows system for more then a decade now, so I have no idea of how you do it in Windows 10/11. But there is surely a guide on how to do a remove partitions and reinstall Windows from scratch.

Thanks, I'm sure I can do a little research to explore it. In the past I used to nuke the drives with some sort of CD or USB program and then I'd do a fresh install off another USB. So I'm sure I just need to figure out how to do it with windows 10 now. Every guide I've seen the last two nights teach you to use Windows built in tool. But as we've identified - that's obviously not working.

 

I really appreciate your help. If all goes well maybe I'll be able to come back in a few hours with the news of a revived PC.

[NinJake]

This will help  you @TheFunShovelsetting up the USB drive to boot from. https://ubuntu.com/tutorials/create-a-usb-stick-on-windows#1-overview

[GuiltySpark_]

1. Make a Windows install USB with their official tool
2. Boot to it, wipe the drive and install Windows fresh. 

The Reset option in Windows is useless.

[TheFunShovel]

Just now, rickeo said:

1. Make a Windows install USB with their official tool
2. Boot to it, wipe the drive and install Windows fresh. 

The Reset option in Windows is useless.

I did create a USB with the Windows Media Creator tool which is what I was using to reinstall windows with through the "reset" tool. But I didn't think to just boot to it. This is the easiest possible solution so far, so I'll try that first in the next few hours. Thanks!

[Mark Kaine]

its either virus/malware

or windows update/maintanance (and yes, its completely irrelevant when your last update was for Windows to do "important things in the *background*) which i personally also classify as malware.

 

So MWB test, full, each hard drive, memory, rooktkit…

 

 

1 hour ago, TheFunShovel said:

I've spent the last 2 days

If MWB doesnt find anything, give it a few days, or temporarily stop and disable "windows update service" in services.

you can do that, just not permanently (option was removed a couple of years back) 

 

If its updates/maintanance it should  literally stop immediately.

 

 

ps: if none of that helps obviously try the USB boot thing, thats just things I would try before doing anything drastic.

 

 

Plus I fail to see how a USB repair (?) should help if this is really  a hardware issue - if anything BIOS update might help... ~
 

[Mattias Edeslatt]

8 minutes ago, TheFunShovel said:

I did create a USB with the Windows Media Creator tool which is what I was using to reinstall windows with through the "reset" tool. But I didn't think to just boot to it. This is the easiest possible solution so far, so I'll try that first in the next few hours. Thanks!

How to: Perform a Clean Install or Reinstall of Windows 10

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/forum/all/how-to-perform-a-clean-install-or-reinstall-of/aef0ae63-2117-41ee-a8ea-4a3181625b08

[TheFunShovel]

2 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

its either virus/malware

or windows update/maintanance (and yes, its completely irrelevant when your last update was for Windows to do "important things in the *background*) which i personally also classify as malware.

 

So MWB test, full, each hard drive, memory, rooktkit…

 

 

If MWB doesnt find anything, give it a few days, or temporarily stop and disable "windows update service" in services.

you can do that, just not permanently (option was removed a couple of years back) 

 

If its updates/maintanance it should  literally stop immediately.

 

 

ps: if none of that helps obviously try the USB boot thing, thats just things I would try before doing anything drastic.

 

 

Plus I fail to see how a USB repair (?) should help if this is really  a hardware issue - if anything BIOS update might help... ~
 

Thanks for the response. The weird thing is, I've done multiple virus scans and nothing comes up. The issue persists if it's a fresh install of windows or if I've let the windows updates catch up. My most recent reset last night I did and I purposely didn't allow wifi connection at setup to see if maybe an automatic update was causing it.

 

Apologies if it's a dumb question - what is MWB?

 

Ok... so when I get home I'm going to first try and suspend windows update service. If that doesn't work I'll try a clean install of windows (boot to USB). Would a virus/malware survive a windows reset?

 

I did update bios btw. One of the first things I thought to try.

[Mattias Edeslatt]

7 minutes ago, TheFunShovel said:

Ok... so when I get home I'm going to first try and suspend windows update service. If that doesn't work I'll try a clean install of windows (boot to USB). Would a virus/malware survive a windows reset?

I would power off the system. Insert the USB, start the PC and enable the boot-device-selector during POST, if we know what motherboard you have we can find out what key that is, usually, ESC, F2 or F8. The POST-screen will tell you what key it is, if you have a boot-logo instead of a POST-screen, press ESC to disable it. Start the install according to the guide above, remove/delete all partitions and let the windows installer create a new partition and continue the install of Windows. 

[Mark Kaine]

9 minutes ago, TheFunShovel said:

Apologies if it's a dumb question - what is MWB?

 

Ok... so when I get home I'm going to first try and suspend windows update service. If that doesn't work I'll try a clean install of windows (boot to USB). Would a virus/malware survive a windows reset?

MWB = malwarebytes, if you have any other AV than windows defender you'll need to disable that before installing MWB, defender can run though , its compatible with MWB.

 

(also MWB is free so dont worry about that)

 

Reason i say MWB is i simply dont trust other AVs and MWB is good at finding stuff others dont.

 

9 minutes ago, TheFunShovel said:

Would a virus/malware survive a windows reset?

 

well, technically thats possible, rare, but possible.

 

 

9 minutes ago, TheFunShovel said:

Ok... so when I get home I'm going to first try and suspend windows update service. If that doesn't work I'll try a clean install of windows (boot to USB). 

yeah, do that first, its super quick, and it should literally just stop any weird cpu usage *if* its windows update service related.

 

Id still run MWB if that doesnt help, just to be sure (look at the options, literally rootkit scan is not enabled by default, should be enabled  though, obviously)

 

[unclewebb]

@TheFunShovel This sounds like an issue with the C states not being enabled correctly. Use ThrottleStop to see what C states your CPU is using when idle. If a CPU is stuck in the C0 state, it will run very hot even when it is not doing anything. The Task Manager Details tab will show low CPU Usage. The first tab will show 100% Utilization. Normally a CPU will enter the C1 state or a deeper C state when it has nothing to do. Your computer is preventing this from happening.

 

Make sure you are running an updated bios. These kind of issues are almost always fixed with a bios update. Check your bios for any C state related options that might be disabled.

[TheFunShovel]

You guys rock. Thank you @Mattias Edeslatt for coaching me through the clean install and @Mark Kaine for the additional suggestions. I'm going to give this all a shot when I'm off work in the next few hours. I've got some hope that a clean install will work given that the OP of the October post about this issue said it did the trick for him. He must have made sure he did a clean install whereas I was just using that Windows reset (that I'll now avoid like the plague, haha.)

 

Thinking about it now, I was really surprised when I used Windows reset, because during the windows install portion, I got a Razer "we can't connect to the server to download your drivers" warning and I thought that was bizarre if it was supposed to be a clean install... why was it trying to load drivers I haven't installed on that "new" one? (Especially because I hadn't connected internet yet.) So, it's seeming more and more clear that my attempts to reset windows just weren't thorough.

 

P.S. I tend to only run Windows Defender so maybe I'll look in to MWB as a good supplement to keep the comp extra secure.

8 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

MWB = malwarebytes, if you have any other AV than windows defender you'll need to disable that before installing MWB, defender can run though , its compatible with MWB.

 

(also MWB is free so dont worry about that)

 

Reason i say MWB is i simply dont trust other AVs and MWB is good at finding stuff others dont.

 

well, technically thats possible, rare, but possible.

 

 

yeah, do that first, its super quick, and it should literally just stop any weird cpu usage *if* its windows update service related.

 

Id still run MWB if that doesnt help, just to be sure (look at the options, literally rootkit scan is not enabled by default, should be enabled  though, obviously)

 

 

[TheFunShovel]

1 minute ago, unclewebb said:

@TheFunShovel This sounds like an issue with the C states not being enabled correctly. Use ThrottleStop to see what C states your CPU is using when idle. If a CPU is stuck in the C0 state, it will run very hot even when it is not doing anything. The Task Manager Details tab will show low CPU Usage. The first tab will show 100% Utilization. Normally a CPU will enter the C1 state or a deeper C state when it has nothing to do. Your computer is preventing this from happening.

 

Make sure you are running an updated bios. These kind of issues are almost always fixed with a bios update. Check your bios for any C state related options that might be disabled.

Thanks, that's interesting to know. I'll check the C state stuff. Unfortunately, a bios update did not solve this problem.

 

That sounds very much like that's what is happening. Interestingly, I was using Intel Tuner (just to see the state of the chip, I don't overclock stuf) and utilization as reported by the Intel Tuner stays at 1-2% despite Task Manager showing 100%. It's all so bizarre.

[unclewebb]

@TheFunShovel The Task Manager is confusing. Utilization and Usage are not measuring the same thing.

 

In the Windows Power Options, push the button to reset your power plan to default.

[TheFunShovel]

2 minutes ago, unclewebb said:

@TheFunShovel The Task Manager is confusing. Utilization and Usage are not measuring the same thing.

 

In the Windows Power Options, push the button to reset your power plan to default.

I had a suspicion it might be the case that those were just measuring different stuff.

 

I did try resetting the power options already as well to no luck. Basically, anything that was easily Google-able I've tried at this point. I've used event viewer to hunt down rogue processes, reset power options, reset my bios, ran command prompts for the integrity checker thing, re-installed windows three times (I thought I did a good job but based on the other posts I think I need to do a true clean re-install).

 

To me what's really weird is this problem was intermittent before. Then I reset windows to "fix it" but had it turn in to a constant problem. I find it weird that it went from intermittent to constant on a windows "reset." If it was a BIOS issue, wouldn't it have always been a constant problem?

[Mark Kaine]

Just now, TheFunShovel said:

I had a suspicion it might be the case that those were just measuring different stuff.

 

I did try resetting the power options already as well to no luck. Basically, anything that was easily Google-able I've tried at this point. I've used event viewer to hunt down rogue processes, reset power options, reset my bios, ran command prompts for the integrity checker thing, re-installed windows three times (I thought I did a good job but based on the other posts I think I need to do a true clean re-install).

 

To me what's really weird is this problem was intermittent before. Then I reset windows to "fix it" but had it turn in to a constant problem. I find it weird that it went from intermittent to constant on a windows "reset." If it was a BIOS issue, wouldn't it have always been a constant problem?

i mean windows reset often can make things worse, so its not really  surprising…

 

Anyways, tbh i thought u already reinstalled windows… a reset can fix thIngs , but usually  you really want a reinstall, and also as mentioned deleting *all* old partitions during the process is important.

 

 

i mean it cant hurt to try some more things, but as it stands i think windows reinstall has the best chances to fix this. 

[TheFunShovel]

1 minute ago, Mark Kaine said:

i mean windows reset often can make things worse, so its not really  surprising…

 

Anyways, tbh i thought u already reinstalled windows… a reset can fix thIngs , but usually  you really want a reinstall, and also as mentioned deleting *all* old partitions during the process is important.

 

 

i mean it cant hurt to try some more things, but as it stands i think windows reinstall has the best chances to fix this. 

Yeah, I thought I reinstalled it too to be honest lol. I figured when Windows was calling its thing a "fresh start" and deleting all the files from the drive that it was truly formatting the drive and creating a new partition, but I can see now that was probably my issue.

 

If this works tonight, then you all have this internet stranger's eternal gratitude because I was probably going to lose my mind if I had a third night of not being able to fix this haha.

[unclewebb]

@TheFunShovel Here are some examples of the C state problem that I was talking about.

 

The first picture shows under the Task Manager Details tab that the CPU is not doing anything. It is idle 99% of the time. ThrottleStop shows that the CPU is spending 100.0% of its time in the C0 state. In this state, power consumption is high and the CPU temperature is higher than it should be.

 

 

In the next picture, the Task Manager Processes tab shows 100% Utilization. This is completely different than CPU Usage that the Details tab shows. 

 

 

The CPU is being prevented from going into one of the idle C states. One Windows setting that controls this is called IDLE DISABLE. When I open up a command window and I enter these two commands:

 

powercfg /setacvalueindex SCHEME_CURRENT SUB_PROCESSOR IDLEDISABLE 0

powercfg /s SCHEME_CURRENT

 

the C states are instantly fixed. Power consumption and temps drop to normal and the Task Manager Processes tab reports the change.

In all three screenshots, the CPU is doing the exact same thing. The only difference is whether it has access to the C states or not. My wallet prefers 2W of idle power consumption compared to 124W.

 

 

 

[TheFunShovel]

50 minutes ago, unclewebb said:

@TheFunShovel Here are some examples of the C state problem that I was talking about.

 

The first picture shows under the Task Manager Details tab that the CPU is not doing anything. It is idle 99% of the time. ThrottleStop shows that the CPU is spending 100.0% of its time in the C0 state. In this state, power consumption is high and the CPU temperature is higher than it should be.

 

 

In the next picture, the Task Manager Processes tab shows 100% Utilization. This is completely different than CPU Usage that the Details tab shows. 

 

 

The CPU is being prevented from going into one of the idle C states. One Windows setting that controls this is called IDLE DISABLE. When I open up a command window and I enter these two commands:

 

powercfg /setacvalueindex SCHEME_CURRENT SUB_PROCESSOR IDLEDISABLE 0

powercfg /s SCHEME_CURRENT

 

the C states are instantly fixed. Power consumption and temps drop to normal and the Task Manager Processes tab reports the change.

In all three screenshots, the CPU is doing the exact same thing. The only difference is whether it has access to the C states or not. My wallet prefers 2W of idle power consumption compared to 124W.

 

 

 

Wow, thank you for taking the time to put that together. Looking at the state of task manager and thinking about what I'm seeing from the system right now I'd wager this c-state issue is exactly my problem. I'm going to test this theory before I do the clean install and use throttlestop to find out.

 

I've learned everything I know about computers from folks smarter than I when I debug problems. So thanks for the great teaching moment.