Linux sucks for gaming and this will probably never change

[Magmarock]

I've been using Linux on and off ever since Windows 8 came out, and there are a few things that just never change. Electronic Arts it still terrible, Half Life 3 is still not happening and desktop Linux is still the worst choice of platform for any serious gamer.

 

So I've been watching the Linux challenge as well as the responses to it by the Linux community and it seems that Linus has unknowingly opened a Pandora's box of angry fans ready to assault the censers from all corners. Criticizing Linux is a lot like criticizing Half Life or Valve, no matter how on point you are no one wants to hear it. Trying to avoid the hate from the Linux community is a fruitless endeavor, it's going to happen whether you like it or not.

 

The truth is Linux is good for certain things; but gaming is not one of them. Out of all the  platforms that can play games from retro gaming PC's with Windows 95 to retro gaming consoles from 30 years ago, Linux is the worst choice of platform. If you ask the community why this is, most will tell you something along the lines of "it's because not enough people use it," or "it's because Microsoft got in first." These are just excuses, the reality is that the Linux community is extremely self sabotaging and goes out of it's way to prevent progress in it's own platform. One of the fundamental reasons that happens is because they don't like closed source software.

 

There's nothing wrong with open source software but there's nothing wrong with closed source either. But you'll never convince the Linux community of this. Linux desktop operating systems IE distros, such as Ubuntu use a repository to install software. Most of the apps in the repository were ported there by the distro maintainers and members of the Linux community. They get the source code from places like GitHub, looked over it, and then modified it to work with their distribution; this is by desgin. You can't do this with closed source software. Developers of closed source applications have to do all the work themselves rather than relying on the community to do it for them.

 

 

 

You might be wandering, "so? Why not just make the game work for Ubuntu as it is and leave at that. Games doesn't need to be open source to work on Linux right?"

For it to continue working for the foreseeable future, it does. Linux doesn't have things like Dot Net, Visual Studio, or direct X. Sure, it  may have things like Vulkan and OpenGL but those don't have the same kind of infrastructure that the closed source software needs for long term functionality. Game developers don't want to work on a game for much longer after it's been released. Once they've release it, they spend the next few weeks or so patching it and then they move on. They don't want to hear about it after that.

 

 

Because Linux Distros are being changed or modified by the community in one way or another, the software for it must also be changed and modified to keep up with it. When something is open source, like for example VLC, it's not that big of a deal. The distro maintainers can make the changes they want to the OS and change VLC's code to accommodate. With closed source you can't to do this. This is why Windows is like the way it is. They are always building it on top of old code. This is so old programs including your favorite games can still work on it. It isn't perfect, but Windows has the best backwards compatibly of any platform out there; again, this is by design.

 

 

5 years ago I kept hearing how gaming on Linux had come a long way. I expect to hear the same thing again in another 5 years. In my experience, it's just as bad now as it was back then. All because it's own community is completely inflexible with too much infighting to get anything done.

There's a lot more I could say about Linux but I'll save that for the responses.

 

 

[Helpful Tech Witch]

4 minutes ago, Magmarock said:

Linux doesn't have things like Dot Net,

 It has that…

https://dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/download/dotnet/5.0
 

6 minutes ago, Magmarock said:

 

5 years ago I kept hearing how gaming on Linux had come a long way. I expect to hear the same thing again in another 5 years. In my experience, it's just as bad now as it was back then. All because it's own community is completely inflexible with too much infighting to get anything done.

There's a lot more I could say about Linux but I'll save that for the responses

Linux really has.

steam play is incredibly versatile, and runs a lot of games great

[igormp]

9 minutes ago, Magmarock said:

For it to continue working for the foreseeable future, it does. Linux doesn't have things like Dot Net, Visual Studio, or direct X. Sure, it  may have things like Vulkan and OpenGL but those don't have the same kind of infrastructure that the closed source software needs for long term functionality.

Are you aware that those APIs (vulkan and opengl) are basically the same between windows and linux? There's a standard that defines those, and both are almost fully backwards compatible, meaning that a software that uses an early version of opengl will still be able to run on top of the newest stack.

[Magmarock]

6 minutes ago, Helpful Tech Wiard said:

 It has that…

https://dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/download/dotnet/5.0
 

Linux really has.

steam play is incredibly versatile, and runs a lot of games great

Okay I admit I don't have much experience using Steam with Linux because I'm not a steam user myself. From the games I have tested though little has changed. I mostly test games that are installed from exe such as from a disks as well as GOG.

[Magmarock]

2 minutes ago, igormp said:

Are you aware that those APIs (vulkan and opengl) are basically the same between windows and linux? There's a standard that defines those, and both are almost fully backwards compatible, meaning that a software that uses an early version of opengl will still be able to run on top of the newest stack.

If that's true than why is backwards compatibility so bad on Linux?

[delph]

1 minute ago, Magmarock said:

Okay I admit I don't have much experience using Steam with Linux[...]

Bro.

[whm1974]

Which Distro are you using or have used? Most of my games are either Linux Native or work well with Proton. Manjaro does well Gaming. Look here at ProtonDB:

 

www.protondb.com

 

 

 

[Magmarock]

1 minute ago, delph said:

Bro.

With so many programs based on Wine being garbage like Crossover, Winetricks, Lutris and so on. I have no reason to think Proton would be any better.

1 minute ago, whm1974 said:

Which Distro are you using or have used? Most of my games are either Linux Native or work well with Proton. Manjaro does well Gaming. Look here at ProtonDB:

 

www.protondb.org

 

 

 

I've tried Manjaro and most Ubuntu and debain based Distros

[whm1974]

5 minutes ago, Magmarock said:

Okay I admit I don't have much experience using Steam with Linux because I'm not a steam user myself. From the games I have tested though little has changed. I mostly test games that are installed from exe such as from a disks as well as GOG.

So why in Hell are you complaining how bad Linux is for Gaming then? Steam works well for Linux Gaming. There is also Lutris for Native games from GOG including those that work with Wine,

 

You didn't think to do your Homework first?

[RONOTHAN##]

7 minutes ago, Magmarock said:

With so many programs based on Wine being garbage like Crossover, Winetricks, Lutris and so on. I have no reason to think Proton would be any better.

10 minutes ago, whm1974 said:

Multiplayer games are broken with it, but like 90%+ of single player games on Steam work almost perfectly with Proton. Occasionally you'll have to do something with Protontricks, but it's not often and it works pretty well.

 

I agree it's not quite there, but saying it can't get there is just wrong. 

[igormp]

10 minutes ago, Magmarock said:

If that's true than why is backwards compatibility so bad on Linux?

Can you give an example? I can get pretty old versions of games going smoothly here.

 

Unless you're talking about old windows games, then it's not about backwards compatibility anymore, but rather you wanting to play other games from an older platform. Good luck trying to run OG Xbox games on a ps5.

[da na]

Quote

Because Linux Distros are being changed or modified by the community in one way or another, the software for it must also be changed and modified to keep up with it.

Like Windows doesn't get updated.

It's the same base code. They don't have to make new versions of .net and DirectX with every weekly Windows update huh? 

[Magmarock]

6 minutes ago, igormp said:

Can you give an example? I can get pretty old versions of games going smoothly here.

 

Unless you're talking about old windows games, then it's not about backwards compatibility anymore, but rather you wanting to play other games from an older platform. Good luck trying to run OG Xbox games on a ps5.

Just about any Linux program that's been deprecated. One example would be Trine 2 from GOG. Which requires dependencies which are no longer available from the repository. Another example would be remastersys. You can find many more from the humble store.

[Bombastinator]

The “modification required” thing you use as one piece of reasoning is only sort of true.  Closed source meant for windows is run using an “envelope” which acts as an interface.  Input and output are modified by the envelope.  This is why Linux runs more games than any given version of windows does.  They can use envelopes to imitate the environments of multiple versions of windows. The envelopes are not easy to make though, and sometimes need to be customized for each program, though there are commonalities. 

[Magmarock]

1 minute ago, Mel0nMan said:

Like Windows doesn't get updated.

It's the same base code. They don't have to make new versions of .net and DirectX with every weekly Windows update huh? 

They're built on old code so they inherent the ability to run older programs. 

from here https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/cpp/windows/latest-supported-vc-redist?view=msvc-170

you can see that the latest version of Visual Studio (VC 2022) includes base code for 2019, 2017 and 2015

you will need to download 2013 separately.

[Magmarock]

4 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

 This is why Linux runs more games than any given version of windows does.

WHAT! Are you trolling or something?

[igormp]

3 minutes ago, Magmarock said:

Just about any Linux program that's been deprecated. One example would be Trine 2 from GOG. Which requires dependencies which are no longer available from the repository. Another example would be remastersys. You can find many more from the humble store.

Interesting, I have trine 2 on steam and it works just fine. Worth noticing that I'm on arch with everything up to date.

 

I guess when you're trying to run stuff on your own without a manager (like steam, epic or any other store software), you end up needing to do everything by yourself.

Good luck trying to download an old-ass windows game and having to go around installing tons of older dependencies (such as .net and others that you mentioned).

[Bombastinator]

3 minutes ago, Magmarock said:

WHAT! Are you trolling or something?

No. I do not intentionally troll.   By sheer number Linux runs more stuff.  It’s kind of a cheat though because a lot of them are extremely old DOS stuff no one actually WANTS to run most of the time. Envelopes could be done for modern windows too.  A few have been.  Not as many though.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

2 minutes ago, igormp said:

Good luck trying to download an old-ass windows game and having to go around installing tons of older dependencies (such as .net and others that you mentioned).

To be fair, I can still download old games like Impossible Creatures, Halo, and Quake III with no issues from the original cds 

[igormp]

10 minutes ago, Magmarock said:

Another example would be remastersys. You can find many more from the humble store.

Gave a look at remastersys, it's a deprecated python2 software, you'd have issues running such kind of software even on windows, since python2 has been deprecated in all platforms.

 

1 minute ago, Helpful Tech Wiard said:

To be fair, I can still download old games like Impossible Creatures, Halo, and Quake III with no issues from the original cds 

Don't those usually include such dependencies along with the disks? I remember having some old Worms CD that installed some old DX stuff along with the game.

[Bombastinator]

3 minutes ago, Helpful Tech Wiard said:

To be fair, I can still download old games like Impossible Creatures, Halo, and Quake III with no issues from the original cds 

How about starflight? That came on floppies. “Old” is a vague and relative term.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

1 minute ago, igormp said:

Don't those usually include such dependencies along with the disks? I remember having some old Worms CD that installed some old DX stuff along with the game.

Usually there’s a folder with the required stuff f to install, but they all run fine without manually installing the old versions

i can try one of my old games in a bit to check, though

[Helpful Tech Witch]

2 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

How about starflight? That came on floppies. “Old” is a vague and relative term.

I was thinking on the realm of 2000s.

at that point you run into the issue of not being able to run the discs because you don’t have a floppy conector or a os that will run 16bit programs.

with w10 64bit on a old enough pc to have a floppy conector, like early core i days perhaps, you’d probably be able to run it

[whm1974]

3 minutes ago, Helpful Tech Wiard said:

I was thinking on the realm of 2000s.

at that point you run into the issue of not being able to run the discs because you don’t have a floppy conector or a os that will run 16bit programs.

with w10 64bit on a old enough pc to have a floppy conector, like early core i days perhaps, you’d probably be able to run it

DOSbox? That what I would use. I doubt very much that you could install Win10 640 on an PC old enough to have a Floppy Connector. For one they don't have 64-bit x86 CPUs. Now what you could do is get a USB FFD and use that with DOSbox to get older DOS games working.

[Bombastinator]

6 minutes ago, Helpful Tech Wiard said:

I was thinking on the realm of 2000s.

at that point you run into the issue of not being able to run the discs because you don’t have a floppy conector or a os that will run 16bit programs.

with w10 64bit on a old enough pc to have a floppy conector, like early core i days perhaps, you’d probably be able to run it

*bought an external USB floppy drive many years ago just because*

 

CDs are getting that way too.  A lot of machines don’t even have CD drives any more.