Linux sucks for gaming and this will probably never change

[Bombastinator]

4 minutes ago, Magmarock said:

Well yeah but the Linux community has been saying the same thing for years and years and yet nothing seems to change.

There has been some change.  There was a move away from supporting very old hardware, and then there was the stuff steam did to write code for some game specific stuff.  I don’t know whether it’s enough or not.  The statement here seems to be that it’s not the Linux design itself that makes things difficult, but the support and writing system.  This may be true.  I don’t know.  Linux does seem to creep closer and closer to popular adoptability. It does it quite slowly though and the target does continue to move as well. Linux seems to be moving perhaps a bit faster, but if it is it’s not a whole lot. This does not support an actual “never” but it could support a “not in the near future”. 

[Master Disaster]

Cool story bro, meanwhile I just got off from a 2 1/2 hour flight in MSFS2020 running in DX12 mode through ProtonGE with identical performance to Windows so excuse me if this sounds crass but...

 

The fact you cannot play games on Linux is not representative of Linux as a gaming platform, only your ability to do it properly.

 

I guess Windows is also a bad server platform because you don't know how to setup a LAMP stack and forward port 80 or macOS is a bad music production platform because you don't know how midi works.

[cretsiah]

6 hours ago, Magmarock said:

So what does Proton have over things like Wine and Lutris. My experience with those was so awful I opted for using a virtual machine instead and got better results. Even if you're hosting on Linux as far as I'm concerned if you're using a VM you're 100% running the game through Windows. So that is not a win for Linux.

im a simpleton, best way i could describe it would be to say:

 

when done correctly:

it provides a specific pre-configured environment when you click the install button.

pre-configuration includes:

- the directx or other video media driver - opengl etc (not the graphics card)

- audio file driver (not the audio sound card/ headphone driver)

- other launcher mechanisms ( ie ubisoft connect/Uplay etc)

- pre-configured 32/64 requirements (because as above some launchers still have a 32 bit requirement)

 

on the linux side to make this work well you need:

- libfaudio

- dxvk

- vulkan (depending on distro you may need to add d12 library as an extra)

these items translate the windows code to linux code ( kinda like google/bing translate, converts english to chinese or any other language) .

 

hope that helps

 

oh and its constantly being revised with improvements along with the help of Glorious-EggRoll

 

[Jaesop]

On 12/19/2021 at 9:46 PM, Magmarock said:

Well Proton is based on Wine and admittedly I should've tested it before making this post. This is mostly about the communities reaction to Linus Substation though. Judging from what he's going though, it sounds like the same old nonsense.

The communities reaction is split amongst those who see it as a good way to improve things from a beginning perspective and those dismissing it.

 

But if you're going to speak confidently about gaming on Linux, you really should be able to speak to the de facto standard.

[Jaesop]

On 12/19/2021 at 9:52 PM, Caroline said:

You forgot the most important step.

 

Pay. 

Sure, just like Windows.

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, Master Disaster said:

Cool story bro, meanwhile I just got off from a 2 1/2 hour flight in MSFS2020 running in DX12 mode through ProtonGE with identical performance to Windows so excuse me if this sounds crass but...

 

The fact you cannot play games on Linux is not representative of Linux as a gaming platform, only your ability to do it properly.

 

I guess Windows is also a bad server platform because you don't know how to setup a LAMP stack and forward port 80 or macOS is a bad music production platform because you don't know how midi works.

Meh.  If one replaces “you” with “an untrained person “ it starts to possibly have more value.  Not that windows is exactly a “give it to an Amazon tribesman” either, but it can be less complex.  Starts to get into that whole apple thing about people who have other things to do.  In this case smiting bits I guess.

Edited December 22, 2021 by Bombastinator

[ToboRobot]

Been using linux for around 20 years off and on.

The advances made thus far are massive, and I think the pace is accelerating.

 

[Bombastinator]

7 minutes ago, ToboRobot said:

Been using linux for around 20 years off and on.

The advances made thus far are massive, and I think the pace is accelerating.

 

Me too.  The advances in one need to be contrasted with the advances in the other though.  I do think Linux is advancing faster than windows is. I’m not sure how much faster though. 

[OIe]

On 12/21/2021 at 7:39 PM, Magmarock said:

Yes, because if you want to know the future, look to the past.

If all future can be is an extrapolation of the past, the Roman empire would still exist. 

[Magmarock]

I also want to take the time to point out how the Linux community focuses way too much on Windows. In my OP I pointed stated clearly out of all platforms that that can play games Linux is the worst. Linux really does make console gaming look far more appealing. It reminds me of the time when DOS was dominate and there were steps you had to take to get the game working and even then it was never quite right. Compared to a console where you just plunged the cartridge in and turned it on. It was easy to see why most people would rather have a Super Nintendo.

[Master Disaster]

59 minutes ago, Magmarock said:

I also want to take the time to point out how the Linux community focuses way too much on Windows. In my OP I pointed stated clearly out of all platforms that that can play games Linux is the worst. Linux really does make console gaming look far more appealing. It reminds me of the time when DOS was dominate and there were steps you had to take to get the game working and even then it was never quite right. Compared to a console where you just plunged the cartridge in and turned it on. It was easy to see why most people would rather have a Super Nintendo.

Yeah, just like how supercars are the worst cars you can buy since they need tuning, regular maintenance, specialist tyres and are harder to drive without you ending upside down in a field. /S

 

Also I'm confused, are you attacking Linux or PCs as a gaming platform in general? You do realise that the vast majority of Windows games also have issues that require the user to change files to fix. There's literally an entire Wiki dedicated to PC gaming problems and fixes.

 

If you're happy driving a Prius then that's great, only those that have ever drove a supercar understand the difference.

 

Gaming on Linux is no harder than it is on Windows, you install a launcher, pick a game to install, wait, click play then play. Compatibility is more of an issue than ease of use and that is improving every day.

 

I'm going to posit a hot take, I don't think you've ever really tried gaming on Linux and likely don't understand how gaming on Linux even works at a fundamental level, if I had to guess I'd say you either trolling in a bad attempt at humour or are trying to stir up a reaction.

[Magmarock]

14 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Yeah, just like how supercars are the worst cars you can buy since they need tuning, regular maintenance, specialist tyres and are harder to drive without you ending upside down in a field. /S

 

Also I'm confused, are you attacking Linux or PCs as a gaming platform in general? You do realise that the vast majority of Windows games also have issues that require the user to change files to fix. There's literally an entire Wiki dedicated to PC gaming problems and fixes.

 

If you're happy driving a Prius then that's great, only those that have ever drove a supercar understand the difference.

 

Gaming on Linux is no harder than it is on Windows, you install a launcher, pick a game to install, wait, click play then play. Compatibility is more of an issue than ease of use and that is improving every day.

 

I'm going to posit a hot take, I don't think you've ever really tried gaming on Linux and likely don't understand how gaming on Linux even works at a fundamental level, if I had to guess I'd say you either trolling in a bad attempt at humour or are trying to stir up a reaction.

I don't know what supercars have got to do with anything but okay. I think it's pretty rich you saying that I don't understanding gaming on Linux while admitting you don't understand my OP,  which is, gaming on Linux still sucks and shows no sign of improving. Your statements kind of illustrate this.

14 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Gaming on Linux is no harder than it is on Windows

This is a flat out lie, it doesn't help your cause to oversell Linux let alone to lie about it. Also you are aware that not all PC gamers use clients rights?

[Bombastinator]

32 minutes ago, Magmarock said:

I don't know what super have got to do with anything but okay. I think it's pretty rich you saying that I don't understanding gaming on Linux while admitting you don't understand my OP,  which is, gaming on Linux still sucks and shows no sign of improving. Your statements kind of illustrate this.

This is a flat out lie, it doesn't help your cause to oversell Linux let alone to lie about it. Also you are aware that not all PC gamers use clients rights?

I get the impression sometimes it’s easier often it’s not.  I don’t know if it’s a lie exactly.  Might be misleading though. It could be argued that For it to be a lie it would have to be harder absolutely all the time.  A definition of words thing. 

[Master Disaster]

1 hour ago, Magmarock said:

I don't know what super have got to do with anything but okay. I think it's pretty rich you saying that I don't understanding gaming on Linux while admitting you don't understand my OP,  which is, gaming on Linux still sucks and shows no sign of improving. Your statements kind of illustrate this.

Lets just establish a few facts before you jump into your ivory tower and start white knighting.

 

Have you ever actually tried gaming on Linux?

What distro did you use?

How long ago was it?

What were the system specs?

What problems did you have?

 

Stating your opinion doesn't make it any more factual the second time than it was the first.

 

1 hour ago, Magmarock said:

This is a flat out lie, it doesn't help your cause to oversell Linux let alone to lie about it.

Except it isn't. AFAIAT you're opinion is based on ignorance and jumping on the bandwagon for internet points.

 

There are times when a game might need a few tweaks applied, this is also true for Windows but with Steam running almost everything you could want through Proton and Lutris allowing you to install games from all other popular clients with a single click and automatically applying any tweaks for you as part of the install script gaming is arguably easier on Linux (unless you have an Nvidia GPU but its not the fault of Linux that Nvidia refuses to allow an open source driver) since on Windows, you have to keep drivers updated to get the best experience while on Linux GPU driver updates come with the kernel and OpenGL & Vulkan updates come as automatic updates to the system.

 

Ease of use is 99% that of Windows for gaming. The bigger issue is compatibility, there are a lot of cases of games that require special libraries and as such don't run under Wine and won't until the Wine team create a custom replacement.

 

Wanna know how many times I've had to manually intervene a game to get it to run on my Linux desktop (that wasn't my fault)? Zero.

Literally every game I've ever tried to run has just worked.

 

Honestly, I think its pretty funny that you say "Linux sucks for gaming" while forgetting that the most hyped handheld console of all time, being made by the biggest PC gaming platform in existence, will be shipping in February and will be running..... Linux..... So its pretty clear that you're obviously smarter than everyone at Valve (at least in your head).

1 hour ago, Magmarock said:

Also you are aware that not all PC gamers use clients rights?

Please name any AAA games from the last decade that hasn't required (at least) one of the launcher clients to work (aside from CDPR whose whole thing is freedom). I wont hold my breath.

[delph]

4 hours ago, Magmarock said:

...you don't understand my OP,  which is, gaming on Linux still sucks and shows no sign of improving...

At risk of wading into the mud, I think conclusively your second point here is just straight-up wrong. In the last year, gaming on Linux has take huge leaps forward, and I don't see any reason for that to stop.

 

We've already discussed this point to exhaustion - so why don't you explain why you don't think it is improving, despite plenty of evidence otherwise.

[Magmarock]

5 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Lets just establish a few facts before you jump into your ivory tower and start white knighting.

 

Have you ever actually tried gaming on Linux?

What distro did you use?

How long ago was it?

What were the system specs?

What problems did you have?

Ubuntu Mint Pop Manjaro Fedora

Last test was about 3 months ago
i7 3770k (old but I tested should work)

I tested both native and Windows games. I tested AAA games new and old. Indie games new and old. Specific examples include Control, Dead Space Darksiders 2, Doom 2016. Native Linux games from GOG and humble.

Most native games released in the last two years worked, but older Linux games were deprecated and the dependencies were unavailable and couldn't be met.

 

Control worked perfectly under both Lutris and crossover Linux, Dead Space worked but fan patches needed for proper mouse controls did not. Doom 2016 had problems with UI and mouse response. Darksiders 2 a game from 2009, started but wasn't playable due to poor rendering.

Those are the games that I can think of, but there were more.

 

5 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Except it isn't. AFAIAT you're opinion is based on ignorance and jumping on the bandwagon for internet points.

No it's based on experience and the paragraph proceeding comment goes into all the excuses like how Nvidia doesn't have open source drivers and so on. Dude, if can get PS3 games working on Windows and Linux then you have no excuse. Before you can fix a problem, first you must acknowledge that there is a problem.

 

7 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Please name any AAA games from the last decade that hasn't required (at least) one of the launcher clients to work

Any AAA game from GOG will work without a client. Any AAA game that's been cracked will also work without a client.

[Magmarock]

3 hours ago, delph said:

At risk of wading into the mud, I think conclusively your second point here is just straight-up wrong. In the last year, gaming on Linux has take huge leaps forward, and I don't see any reason for that to stop.

 

We've already discussed this point to exhaustion - so why don't you explain why you don't think it is improving, despite plenty of evidence otherwise.

I already have, I would just be repeating myself. If for some strange reason you have convinced yourself that Linux is a good choice of platform for gaming there's not a whole lot anyone can do to fix that really.

[Magmarock]

8 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Honestly, I think its pretty funny that you say "Linux sucks for gaming" while forgetting that the most hyped handheld console of all time, being made by the biggest PC gaming platform in existence, will be shipping in February and will be running..... Linux..... So its pretty clear that you're obviously smarter than everyone at Valve

THE most hyped handheld? Really? Sorry dude, I can't take anything you say seriously.  Have you heard something called the Steam machine? We've been down this road before. Valve can't even count to 3 and no one is going to care about Valves crappy Switch knock off.

[delph]

Alright. This dude is either trolling or his parents were killed by Linux and he holds an eternal grudge against it.

 

For anyone who read this far and needs it laid out clearly:

Linux isn't as simple of a gaming experience as Windows or console gaming currently. This is true.

Support for gaming is improving quickly on Linux because of Steam and greater demand from the community.

Lutris, Proton and so on are making it a lot easier to download a pre-configured loader for old and new games which come with all the necessary libraries.

The potential for gaming is a bit higher on Linux, because of the lack of bloat and the specificity you can write into the kernel. We are likely to see more and more distros designed for gaming with optimization built in (Pop!_OS is sort of leading the pack at this point).

 

As I recommend to everyone - if you're skeptical, try it out. Linux is free and requires no commitment - give it a shot and see for yourself.

[Master Disaster]

4 hours ago, Magmarock said:

Ubuntu Mint Pop Manjaro Fedora

Last test was about 3 months ago
i7 3770k (old but I tested should work)

Ahh, say no more. The thread title should be something more like "Linux doesn't magically make my potato play games better than Windows ergo it sucks".

4 hours ago, Magmarock said:

I tested both native and Windows games. I tested AAA games new and old. Indie games new and old. Specific examples include Control, Dead Space Darksiders 2, Doom 2016. Native Linux games from GOG and humble.

 

Control worked perfectly under both Lutris and crossover Linux, Dead Space worked but fan patches needed for proper mouse controls did not. Doom 2016 had problems with UI and mouse response. Darksiders 2 a game from 2009, started but wasn't playable due to poor rendering.

OK, now try playing a 2009 PC game under Windows 11 and see if it just works flawelessly.

4 hours ago, Magmarock said:

Most native games released in the last two years worked, but older Linux games were deprecated and the dependencies were unavailable and couldn't be met.

Names?

4 hours ago, Magmarock said:

=No it's based on experience and the paragraph proceeding comment goes into all the excuses like how Nvidia doesn't have open source drivers and so on. Dude, if can get PS3 games working on Windows and Linux then you have no excuse. Before you can fix a problem, first you must acknowledge that there is a problem.

I did acknowledge Linux gaming has a problem, that being the largest GPU vendor (by market share) refuses to allow the community to create good drivers that actually work and instead insists on forcing a fully proprietary precompiled blob that just doesn't work onto its users instead. Again, its not the fault of the Linux community that Nvidia refuses to allow the thing that works perfectly for Intel & AMD.

 

I'm confused what the existence of an Emulator has to do with anything?

4 hours ago, Magmarock said:

Any AAA game from GOG will work without a client. Any AAA game that's been cracked will also work without a client.

So the only example you can provide is the one I mentioned as an exception to the rule. Thanks for reinforcing my point.

3 hours ago, Magmarock said:

THE most hyped handheld? Really? Sorry dude, I can't take anything you say seriously.  Have you heard something called the Steam machine? We've been down this road before. Valve can't even count to 3 and no one is going to care about Valves crappy Switch knock off.

Yes. The most hyped handheld console of all time, including the Switch. Previous failings and Valves inability to count have no bearing on what I said at all. The entire industry is waiting for the Steam deck to drop, turns out that being able to play the vast majority of AAA PC titles (albeit slightly gimped) on the bus to work is kind of a big deal. Who woulda thunk it?

[Magmarock]

1 hour ago, Master Disaster said:

Ahh, say no more. The thread title should be something more like "Linux doesn't magically make my potato play games better than Windows ergo it sucks".

They worked fine in the virtual machine and on native Windows so it's not the hardware. Also Dead Space and Darksiers 2 are old. You don't retain much do you.

 

1 hour ago, Master Disaster said:

Names?

Trine 2
And Yet it Moves
Little Inferno
All native all had the same problem. No dependencies because repos suck for games.

 

1 hour ago, Master Disaster said:

So the only example you can provide is the one I mentioned as an exception to the rule. Thanks for reinforcing my point.

when you said CDPR I thought you just meant Cypberpunk. So the only examples I'm allowed to use are ones that favor your argument? Sounds a little arbitrary wouldn't you say?

 

1 hour ago, Master Disaster said:

I did acknowledge Linux gaming has a problem, that being the largest GPU vendor (by market share) refuses to allow the community to create good drivers that actually work and instead insists on forcing a fully proprietary precompiled

That's not acknowledge, that's pointing fingers and making excuses. Talking about private source code like it's something you're entitled to. Yeah the games industry uses proprietary code. It's not gonna change so deal with it and stop making excuses.

 

4 hours ago, delph said:

Alright. This dude is either trolling or his parents were killed by Linux

Criticism of Linux no matter how constructive will always get you labeled a troll in response. Linus himself got the very same treatment. Here's one such example

   

One of the biggest Linux youtbers and just can't take the hint. Linux is not great for gaming people.

 

4 hours ago, delph said:

The potential for gaming is a bit higher on Linux, because of the lack of bloat and the specificity you can write into the kernel.

There's that word again. No one cares about potential dude. They want what's good today not what might be good some years from now; and what doesn't have "potential?" Does Windows not have the potential to improve. Do consoles not have the potential to improve to the point where PC gaming might want to get into them? Point is everything has potential so saying it doesn't mean much.
 

 

4 hours ago, delph said:

As I recommend to everyone - if you're skeptical, try it out. Linux is free and requires no commitment - give it a shot and see for yourself.

I agree with this as well 100% just remember, if you reach out to the community for help this is the kind of response you can expect to receive. Just learn to like games and things that work well on Linux, rather than use something that works well for what you want it to do. 

[delph]

2 hours ago, Magmarock said:

Criticism of Linux no matter how constructive will always get you labeled a troll in response.

 

There's that word again. No one cares about potential dude.

 

I agree with this as well 100% just remember, if you reach out to the community for help this is the kind of response you can expect to receive.

You haven't presented a constructive idea at all. You've presented no suggested solutions. You've also failed to even present reliable problems which could be solved. If you kept a log of the errors you received and even what games you were trying to play, we could help you, you know. You'll also see in the Pop!_OS, Manjaro and Mint community a very positive response to Linus's videos and are actually working at improving the user experience. Hell, one of the first threads in the Linux section here was someone trying to do everything via GUI for a week - I have contacted distributors who /require/ you to use the terminal for their graphical application.

 

This thread's title references potential, you melon.

 

If you reach out to the community, you will be helped. If you whine about not knowing how dependencies work, you are likely to not get much help.

[Master Disaster]

1 hour ago, Magmarock said:

They worked fine in the virtual machine and on native Windows so it's not the hardware. Also Dead Space and Darksiers 2 are old. You don't retain much do you.

 

Trine 2
And Yet it Moves
Little Inferno
All native all had the same problem. No dependencies because repos suck for games.

 

when you said CDPR I thought you just meant Cypberpunk. So the only examples I'm allowed to use are ones that favor your argument? Sounds a little arbitrary wouldn't you say?

 

That's not acknowledge, that's pointing fingers and making excuses. Talking about private source code like it's something you're entitled to. Yeah the games industry uses proprietary code. It's not gonna change so deal with it and stop making excuses.

 

Criticism of Linux no matter how constructive will always get you labeled a troll in response. Linus himself got the very same treatment. Here's one such example

   

One of the biggest Linux youtbers and just can't take the hint. Linux is not great for gaming people.

 

There's that word again. No one cares about potential dude. They want what's good today not what might be good some years from now; and what doesn't have "potential?" Does Windows not have the potential to improve. Do consoles not have the potential to improve to the point where PC gaming might want to get into them? Point is everything has potential so saying it doesn't mean much.
 

 

I agree with this as well 100% just remember, if you reach out to the community for help this is the kind of response you can expect to receive. Just learn to like games and things that work well on Linux, rather than use something that works well for what you want it to do. 

OK, first off allow to me apologise for assuming your ignorance on the subject and getting defensive. I'm sorry. Its pretty clear you have tried gaming on Linux and even though you are running ageing hardware its still a valid use case, I'm sure lots of people still game on 3rd/4th Gen i7s. From now on lets try and be respectful, agreed?

 

On the CDPR/GOG thing, they don't count because they're entire reason for existing is DRM free gaming. Its not fair to lump them with everyone else since they're the only ones doing it differently.

 

I wasn't pointing fingers and blaming, my point is valid. Nvidia are holding Linux back, and not only in gaming. The Linux community has been trying to ditch the X windows system for years, its been around since the early 90s and was never intended to be used with HiDPI displays running at 100s of hzs, it only works because its been hacked multiple times to make it work. We've had a much newer and more suitable replacement lined up for a few years now, the reason X is still the default for most distros is solely because Wayland doesn't play nice with Nvidias drivers and them being closed source means the Wayland team cannot fix the issues from their end, instead Nvidia has to fix the issues and Nvidia cannot fix the issues because they chose to not use native Linux graphics libraries and instead write their own that only work on X. Since Nvidia have the largest market share of GPUs, if everyone ditched X and moved to Wayland tomorrow the internet would be flooded with Nvidia GPU owners whose systems now run like ass with graphical issues, tearing and clicks not registering correctly or at all.

 

FTR nobody is asking for Nvidia proprietary code, just the tech specs and registers would be enough for the community to create their own. Nvidia can keep their proprietary stuff proprietary (just like AMD do with OpenCL support) and we could still have an open source driver that unlike nouveau can play games using mesa, vulkan and dxvk and doesn't have proprietary dependencies. Of course the Nvidia owners would have to grab the official Nvidia driver for advanced stuff like RTX, CUDA and DLSS but could also have a functional system without them.

 

Instead of working against us, they could try to help us improve the user experience of their product.

[igormp]

2 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

I wasn't pointing fingers and blaming, my point is valid. Nvidia are holding Linux back, and not only in gaming. The Linux community has been trying to ditch the X windows system for years, its been around since the early 90s and was never intended to be used with HiDPI displays running at 100s of hzs, it only works because its been hacked multiple times to make it work. We've had a much newer and more suitable replacement lined up for a few years now, the reason X is still the default for most distros is solely because Wayland doesn't play nice with Nvidias drivers and them being closed source means the Wayland team cannot fix the issues from their end, instead Nvidia has to fix the issues and Nvidia cannot fix the issues because they chose to not use native Linux graphics libraries and instead write their own that only work on X. Since Nvidia have the largest market share of GPUs, if everyone ditched X and moved to Wayland tomorrow the internet would be flooded with Nvidia GPU owners whose systems now run like ass with graphical issues, tearing and clicks not registering correctly or at all.

Blaming it all on nvidia sounds dumb to me, specially since you have both gnome and kde working on wayland on nvidia for a reasonable time now.

On my desktop, where I do have an nvidia GPU, I do use Xorg because it just works and there are no compelling features on wayland to make me switch.

 

On my laptop, however, with only the intel graphics, I decided to go with gnome wayland because it sounded like a sane default, and it has many major issues that make usage a pain, like not being able to screen share in most applications and whatnot. X is still the default because it works in most cases, while wayland is still not quite there yet (even though some distros such as fedora have it as the default).

 

Also, fwiw, nvidia gave in to the pressure and are also supporting GBM along with their own EGL streams API (which was open source from the beginning too).

[Master Disaster]

1 hour ago, igormp said:

Blaming it all on nvidia sounds dumb to me, specially since you have both gnome and kde working on wayland on nvidia for a reasonable time now.

On my desktop, where I do have an nvidia GPU, I do use Xorg because it just works and there are no compelling features on wayland to make me switch.

 

On my laptop, however, with only the intel graphics, I decided to go with gnome wayland because it sounded like a sane default, and it has many major issues that make usage a pain, like not being able to screen share in most applications and whatnot. X is still the default because it works in most cases, while wayland is still not quite there yet (even though some distros such as fedora have it as the default).

 

Also, fwiw, nvidia gave in to the pressure and are also supporting GBM along with their own EGL streams API (which was open source from the beginning too).

Fair, I realise its not solely because of Nvidia and other factors are at play but Nvidia have played a role in the slow transition.

 

Screen sharing is being transitioned away from the window manager entirely. Pipewire will be the default moving forward and at first glance that seems a little odd but it actually makes way more sense to bundle audio & video de/encoding together than it does to have your Window manager handle it. It moves everything in your streaming app into a single toolchain instead of pulling audio from alsa and video from X. XWayland is also a thing but relies on the developer to add support.

 

My experience with Wayland has been flawless on everything I've ever tried except for KDE (and that is a KDE issue that is being fixed at the moment), I use Gnome on Wayland as my desktop on my gaming rig and my laptop (that has an Intel 10th gen i5 with iGPU).

 

Nouveau is based on Nvidias EGL, right? If yes then why is it almost useless for anything except rendering a desktop?