Sell 10900KF/Z590 and replace with 12700K/Z690?

[Mister Woof]

For gaming. Paired with a 3080, mostly MMOs, 1440p/165hz

 

Should I do it?

What would you do?

 

Reasoning for:

It's fun to play with parts

It might be better in MMOs

it's only money

 

Reasoning against:

Not huge gains

It won't be better in all games/scenarios

it's money

 

A 12700k/Z690 system would run me around $650; I could sell the 10900KF/Z590 for perhaps $400 and it would cost me the difference. I would not be moving parts down to my family members because the only one who seems to need an upgrade is my daughter but no way she needs a 10900k.

 

[Guest]

Lol. It was just a matter of time....

 

Yes, Lt. Warf. Do the upgrade. It's sensible imo.

[DarkSmith2]

if i would have the money to do it, i would buy 12900k with apex board and DDR5 when its available again. (preferably ddr5-6000 hynix kit atleast)

12700k+cheap ddr4 board is just the cheap option that is currently performing really well for the price in games. And would be a fair option for someone who owns a 8700k and wants just more. If i would have a 10900kf i wouldnt even consider the 12700k, upgrade is small enough to not be considered for my gaming purposes, especially not on higher than 1080p resolutions.

The argument for the 12900k that stands so strong is insane productivity performance gain and keeping my old Hardware to build up a 2nd rig for streaming, while i also just could get away with a ATEM Mini PRO for 469€.
 

[Mister Woof]

5 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Lol. It was just a matter of time....

 

Yes, Lt. Warf. Do the upgrade. It's sensible imo.

I'd be sticking with my existing 4000/cl18 DDR4, so it's just two part swap. And I can get a mounting kit from Corsair to keep using the same cooler.

 

3 minutes ago, DarkSmith2 said:

if i would have the money to do it, i would buy 12900k with apex board and DDR5 when its available again.

12700k+cheap ddr4 board is just the cheap option that is currently performing really well for the price in games. And would be a fair option for someone who owns a 8700k and wants just more. If i would have a 10900kf i wouldnt even consider the 12700k, upgrade is small enough to not be considered for my gaming purposes, especially not on higher than 1080p resolutions.

The arguement for the 12900k that stands so strong is insane productivity performance gain and keeping my old Hardware to build up a 2nd rig for streaming, while i also just could away with a ATEM Mini PRO for 469€.
 

The big performance difference would be in MMO fps lows; looking at the anandtech FFXIV data shows at low resolution/low detail (which is a good facsimile for CPU-bound scenarios in that game) the 10th gen parts even with an OC are behind the Ryzen 5000 series....I'm willing to bet the 12th gen parts are even better.

 

That said I've not encountered "bad" performance in anything....it's kind of just a luxury upgrade if I did it.

[Guest]

Just now, Mister Woof said:

I'd be sticking with DDR4, so it's just two part swap. And I can get a mounting kit from Corsair to keep using the same cooler.

Aww boooo. 

DDR5 or bust. Cause if you gotta spend money on yourself for Xmas, might as well do it right. (That's why I'm waiting on AMD....)

[DarkSmith2]

4 minutes ago, Mister Woof said:

The big performance difference would be in MMO fps lows; looking at the anandtech FFXIV data shows at low resolution/low detail (which is a good facsimile for CPU-bound scenarios in that game) the 10th gen parts even with an OC are behind the Ryzen 5000 series....I'm willing to bet the 12th gen parts are even better.

 

That said I've not encountered "bad" performance in anything....it's kind of just a luxury upgrade if I did it.

upgrades sometime just doesnt have to make sense, a mans heart with a reptile brain sometimes need upgrades to be happy LUL

[Mister Woof]

Just now, DarkSmith2 said:

upgrades sometime just doesnt have to make sense, a mens heart with a reptile brain sometimes need upgrades to be happy LUL

Man don't I know it....it probably should just get a new lawn mower

2 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Aww boooo. 

DDR5 or bust. Cause if you gotta spend money on yourself for Xmas, might as well do it right. (That's why I'm waiting on AMD....)

When's the new one coming? Early 2022? That's the stacking cache, right?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Mister Woof said:

When's the new one coming? Early 2022? That's the stacking cache, right?

3D something.... which sounds fun. Just better be on DDR5 or I'm going with Intel period. At least I know what I'll be getting.... some BIG cores and a bunch of little cores ... but not in 3d so maybe a small disappointment. 

[IkeaGnome]

I think the people who are going to respond to this are going to end up being like me. You know what I went through a couple days ago. My 12900k should be delivered to my old roommates' house tomorrow and I'll get it on the 1st. 

Is it going to give me a lot more performance? No. Do I like shiny new parts? YES!

2 minutes ago, Mister Woof said:

.it probably should just get a new lawn mower

That won't help until spring..

[IkeaGnome]

Just now, ShrimpBrime said:

3D something.... which sounds fun. Just better be on DDR5 or I'm going with Intel period. At least I know what I'll be getting.... some BIG cores and a bunch of little cores ... but not in 3d so maybe a small disappointment. 

Last I heard, it was going to be AM4. Direct replacement for current CPUs, then Zen4 was going to be AM5/DDR5. 

https://wccftech.com/amd-zen-3-3d-vache-ryzen-cpus-enter-mass-production-next-month-zen-3-b2-stepping-available-end-of-december-alleges-rumor/

Quote

AMD already officially confirmed that their Ryzen CPUs based on the Zen 3 architecture with 3D V-Cache are heading to the AM4 platform in Q1 2022. Based on the tweet, AMD is expected to begin mass production of these chips next month which means that we are probably going to hear more about them at CES 2022 and a launch by February 2022 which gives them a good 9-10 month time on shelves before Zen 4 enters the market.

 

[Guest]

Just now, IkeaGnome said:

Last I heard, it was going to be AM4. Direct replacement for current CPUs, then Zen4 was going to be AM5/DDR5. 

https://wccftech.com/amd-zen-3-3d-vache-ryzen-cpus-enter-mass-production-next-month-zen-3-b2-stepping-available-end-of-december-alleges-rumor/

 

Zen 4 should be first half 2022 as far as I'm aware. So yeah not refresh AM4. I'm not interested so much in that innovation at this time.

[Mister Woof]

1 minute ago, IkeaGnome said:

Last I heard, it was going to be AM4. Direct replacement for current CPUs, then Zen4 was going to be AM5/DDR5. 

https://wccftech.com/amd-zen-3-3d-vache-ryzen-cpus-enter-mass-production-next-month-zen-3-b2-stepping-available-end-of-december-alleges-rumor/

 

I guess I need to wait for the dust to settle to see which one to go for.

 

5 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

3D something.... which sounds fun. Just better be on DDR5 or I'm going with Intel period. At least I know what I'll be getting.... some BIG cores and a bunch of little cores ... but not in 3d so maybe a small disappointment. 

I like Intel but I'm open to AMD. I kind of actually WANT to get an AMD because I haven't had any hands-on with it since Zen 1 and the 1600. I helped a friend with his 3800x build, but that was it. 

 

6 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

I think the people who are going to respond to this are going to end up being like me. You know what I went through a couple days ago. My 12900k should be delivered to my old roommates' house tomorrow and I'll get it on the 1st. 

Is it going to give me a lot more performance? No. Do I like shiny new parts? YES!

That won't help until spring..

I had to mow my lawn today actually; we've been in a bit of a drought since well forever and the storm systems a few months ago really caused new growth. We never really get that cold here either (California) so lawns need mowing year around. I have a Honda, which I love, but we're going to be banning ICE mowers soon. So I wanted to sell mine and get a battery electric.

[IkeaGnome]

5 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Zen 4 should be first half 2022 as far as I'm aware. So yeah not refresh AM4. I'm not interested so much in that innovation at this time.

I can't find where I originally read it before. I was under the impression that Zen 3 with 3d cache was going to be Zen3D, and that would be first half of 2022, then Zen 4 would potentially be second half. I do some looking around. 

6 minutes ago, Mister Woof said:

I had to mow my lawn today actually; we've been in a bit of a drought since well forever and the storm systems a few months ago really caused new growth. We never really get that cold here either (California) so lawns need mowing year around. I have a Honda, which I love, but we're going to be banning ICE mowers soon. So I wanted to sell mine and get a battery electric.

I forget there's places that don't get snow in September.

[Mister Woof]

5 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

I can't find where I originally read it before. I was under the impression that Zen 3 with 3d cache was going to be Zen3D, and that would be first half of 2022, then Zen 4 would potentially be second half. I do some looking around. 

I forget there's places that don't get snow in September.

It hasn't significantly snowed here since.....1976? But the downside is near constant drought. 

[jones177]

Not an upgrade at 1440p or 4k.

 

I just bought a 5900x to replace my 5800x and I don't expect that to be an upgrade either. 

 

I would get the 12700k and replace the i7 8700k or the i9 9900 with the i9 10900KF.

 

I have tested my i7 8700k and i7 8086k with a 3080 ti and they are done. The i9 9900k only suffers at 1080p against the 5800x so there is life in it yet.

My i9 9900k won't see another video card since by next gen Nvidia it will be done as well.

 

[IkeaGnome]

1 minute ago, Mister Woof said:

It hasn't significantly snowed here since.....1976? But the downside is near constant drought. 

Adult in me says mower. Adult in me also knows that I don't own a lawn mower and pay some high schoolers to do it. I've always said I'm not going to upgrade for a while. My parts history says I cave every time. 6700k, 7700k, 8700k, 9900k, 5800x, soon to be 12900k. 1070, 2070, 6800xt, 2 1080s were last. 

[Mister Woof]

Just now, jones177 said:

Not an upgrade at 1440p or 4k.

 

I just bought a 5900x to replace my 5800x and I don't expect that to be an upgrade either. 

 

I would get the 12700k and replace the i7 8700k or the i9 9900 with the i9 10900KF.

 

I have tested my i7 8700k and i7 8086k with a 3080 ti and they are done. The i9 9900k only suffers at 1080p against the 5800x so there is life in it yet.

My i9 9900k won't see another video card since by next gen Nvidia it will be done as well.

 

Thing is those are paired with pretty weak GPUs as it is - 8700 w/3060, 9400 w/1060 3gb. They won't see much benefit until I upgrade those.

The 8700k system...by all rights I should just let one of my kids use it. It's got a 5700XT in it, which is still pretty decent. But the whole system hasn't seen much use in the past year or so. I feel bad letting it collect dust.

 

I have no need for more systems or even upgrades right now....it's just some weird existential dread of getting old, covid, and YOLOing it

[jones177]

7 minutes ago, Mister Woof said:

Thing is those are paired with pretty weak GPUs as it is - 8700 w/3060, 9400 w/1060 3gb. They won't see much benefit until I upgrade those.

The 8700k system...by all rights I should just let one of my kids use it. It's got a 5700XT in it, which is still pretty decent. But the whole system hasn't seen much use in the past year or so. I feel bad letting it collect dust.

 

I have no need for more systems or even upgrades right now....it's just some weird existential dread of getting old, covid, and YOLOing it

I am always looking for an excuse to upgrade a computer. So with that logic, if you kept the i9 10900kf you would have an excuse to upgrade those one of those GPUs. 

 

Giving computers to kids never ends. Where do you think my i9 10900k went?

 

I blame Covid too.  If it wasn't for that I would be spending my money on some old farts cruise instead of on CPUs and GPUs.

[xg32]

2 hours ago, Mister Woof said:

.

just gonna skip the mental math on this one and agree with shrimp, ddr5 or bust, the high powerdraw and design/raptor lake leaks indicates this is still a stopgap gen that will get blown out the water (and then what, upgrade again?), i've managed to talk myself into 0 interest for 12th gen as im waiting for 200:1 ddr5 (cl36 7200?)

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, xg32 said:

 (cl36 7200?)

I'd settle for CL40 at 8000mhz. If that becomes an OC sweet spot and push CL38, good for the show. Gotta let DDr5 fab mature a couple years I think though.

[Bobbysixjp]

I’ve been seriously considering an upgrade from a Z390 and 9900K to a 12600K/12700K.

 

Here are my reasons for:

It’s nice to have the latest tech (yeah I know it’s not a great reason).

There is a fairly large increase in performance (but not groundbreaking especially as I game at high resolutions where the CPU is less important).

Reasons against:

The 9900K is still a pretty good CPU.

Right now Z690 motherboards are so expensive.

DDR5 is outrageously expensive / non-existent.

Going with a DDR4 Z690 would mean an upgrade sooner rather than later when DDR5 becomes cheaper.

 

I’m really struggling to justify the upgrade based on these factors. 

 

[Bobbysixjp]

5 hours ago, jones177 said:

Not an upgrade at 1440p or 4k.

 

I just bought a 5900x to replace my 5800x and I don't expect that to be an upgrade either. 

 

I would get the 12700k and replace the i7 8700k or the i9 9900 with the i9 10900KF.

 

I have tested my i7 8700k and i7 8086k with a 3080 ti and they are done. The i9 9900k only suffers at 1080p against the 5800x so there is life in it yet.

My i9 9900k won't see another video card since by next gen Nvidia it will be done as well.

 

Based on your testing how long will the 9900K be good with a 3080/Ti? Would you say it’s worth upgrading to a 12600K/12700K on DDR4 from 9900K?

[jones177]

7 hours ago, Bobbysixjp said:

Based on your testing how long will the 9900K be good with a 3080/Ti? Would you say it’s worth upgrading to a 12600K/12700K on DDR4 from 9900K?

I think the limit on a stock i9 9900k is a RTX 3080. With a 3080 ti it falls apart compared to a stock 5800x at 1080p in games that are not GPU bound.   

Overclocked to 5ghz all cores will give it a bit more life like it did with my i7 8086ks but not by much in games as in synthetic benches.

 

To start I will compare the i9 9900k with a RTX 2080 ti vs a RTX 3080 ti

This is with Shadow of the Tomb Raider at ultra.

 

SOTTR is at Ultra without RT              1080p            1440p         4k

EVGA FTW3 Ultra 2080 ti/i9 9900k     160fps            133fps       74fps

EVGA FTW3 Ultra 3080 ti/i9 9900k     169fps            154fps       96fps

Not a good 1080p upgrade. 

 

Now the 5800x with the same GPUs.

EVGA FTW3 Ultra 2080 ti/5800x         160fps            129fps       73fps

EVGA FTW3 Ultra 3080 ti/5800x         198fps            163fps       96fps

A good upgrade across all resolutions.

 

With a ASUS Stix 3080:

ASUS ROG Strix 3080/i9 9900k          167fps            144fps       87fps

Again, not a 1080p upgrade from a 2080 ti.

My i9 9900k is paired with a budget 3080 ti that does about the same frames as the high end 3080 but benefits with the extra vram since I play games at 4k.

EVGA XC3 Ultra 3080 ti/i9 9900k        168fps            143fps       83fps

 

Going back to the i9 9900k vs 5800x with the same GPU but with games that are still GPU bound even at 1080p

 

Assassins Creed Odyssey on ultra.     1080p     1440p         4k 

EVGA FTW3 Ultra 3080 ti/i9 9900k     106fps       89fps       72fps

EVGA FTW3 Ultra 3080 ti/5800x           99fps       93fps       65fps

I had to run this one over and over again but the i9 wins at 1080p and 4k.

 

Horizon Zero Dawn

EVGA FTW3 Ultra 3080 ti/i9 9900k    155fps      138fps       88fps

EVGA FTW3 Ultra 3080 ti/5800x        156fps      138fps       89fps

 

With GPU bound games the 5800x in not an upgrade for a 19 9900k.

 

I think anyone with an i9 9900k does not have a really good upgrade now unless they play CPU games or need more cores. 

I don't us it in my gaming rigs because I like to play modded games at 4k and they stutter using i9 9900k with out a 5ghz overclock. With the overclock the games crash more. 

 

With your rig you have a good balance for 1440p and 4k gaming but if you want silly frames in CSGO upgrade.

 

 

 

[Tan3l6]

Yes?!

12900K would be an oven. 12700K is a bit more reasonable utensil.

[DarkSmith2]

13 hours ago, ShrimpBrime said:

I'd settle for CL40 at 8000mhz. If that becomes an OC sweet spot and push CL38, good for the show. Gotta let DDr5 fab mature a couple years I think though.

If ddr5 wouldnt have that limited temperature scaling, 8000cl40 would be doable at around 1.56v when using the ddr5 6000 cl36 1.3v hynix kits.

But overclockability looks real bad for ddr5 right now ;(