Apple's UK users deserve app price compensation, claim says

[Spindel]

Everyone having a problem with apple and iOS please move to android and leave the iOS ecosystem alone. 

 

You have options, so fuck off and don't destroy the option to have iOS as it is for the rest of us. 

[Arika]

54 minutes ago, Spindel said:

You have options, so fuck off and don't destroy the option to have iOS as it is for the rest of us. 

???

 

they are not destroying the option of you having iOS. they are trying to give iOS users more options where they get their apps from.

[Spindel]

56 minutes ago, Arika S said:

???

 

they are not destroying the option of you having iOS. they are trying to give iOS users more options where they get their apps from.

So they are destroying one of the aspects that makes iOS good. 

[Bombastinator]

53 minutes ago, Arika S said:

???

 

they are not destroying the option of you having iOS. they are trying to give iOS users more options where they get their apps from.

Exactly. specifically from literally anywhere at all.  Including the electronic equivalent of the bathroom floor.  Which is the problem. 

[Arika]

2 minutes ago, Spindel said:

So they are destroying one of the aspects that makes iOS good. 

how is giving someone MORE options "destroying" anything?

 

the app store will still exist, it will still be the primary place to get apps, but if a dev wants to release on iOS but cannot afford the cost of the app store, they can host it themselves or on a cheaper store and still get it out to customers

[Arika]

1 minute ago, Bombastinator said:

Exactly. specifically from literally anywhere at all.  Including the electronic equivalent of the bathroom floor.  Which is the problem. 

and thats for the user to figure out. not for Apple to control.

 

otherwise you can say that Windows should stop everything from being downloaded from anywhere but the windows store.

[Bombastinator]

Just now, Arika S said:

how is giving someone MORE options "destroying" anything?

 

the app store will still exist, it will still be the primary place to get apps, but if a dev wants to release on iOS but cannot afford the cost of the app store, they can host it themselves or on a cheaper store and still get it out to customers

Re: “how is giving someone MORE options destroying anything?”

seriously?  You want a list?

[Arika]

6 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Re: “how is giving someone MORE options destroying anything?”

seriously?  You want a list?

Yes, please tell me how an alternate app store or sideloading is going to hurt anyone but Apples iron grip over ios

[Bombastinator]

Just now, Arika S said:

and thats for the user to figure out. not for Apple to control.

 

otherwise you can say that Windows should stop everything from being downloaded from anywhere but the windows store.

It’s not about “apple’s control” “the user” includes a lot more than independent buys.  There’s a reason a lot of companies won’t allow android to be used by anyone who deals with sensitive stuff.  It’s more than just Google. 
 

For me as an independent buy “user” if I download something I don’t have to worry about some hacker eating my phone from the inside and stealing my identity.  It is sort of nice.  It’s not why I bought the thing.  There’s also the whole Google using your phone to look up your skirt and sell pics at its leisure bit.   You want to force apple to allow having literally anyone put software in their phones? Fine.  Clean up things so that isn’t a stupidly dangerous thing to do first.

[Arika]

5 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

It’s not about “apple’s control” “the user” includes a lot more than independent buys.  There’s a reason a lot of companies won’t allow android to be used by anyone who deals with sensitive stuff.  It’s more than just Google. 
 

For me as an independent buy “user” if I download something I don’t have to worry about some hacker eating my phone from the inside and stealing my identity.  It is sort of nice.  It’s not why I bought the thing.  There’s also the whole Google using your phone to look up your skirt and sell pics at its leisure bit.   You want to force apple to allow having literally anyone put software in their phones? Fine.  Clean up things so that isn’t a stupidly dangerous thing to do first.

And you as a user don't have to worry about getting things from anywhere but the app store if you don't want to. Giving other people the option doesn't dimish your experience 

[Ashleyyyy]

10 hours ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

no, im claiming its as secure (if not less so) than android. And they let you do what ever the hell you want with apps.

i could respond to this but why would i bother

[Bombastinator]

6 minutes ago, Arika S said:

Yes, please tell me how an alternate app store or sideloading is going to hurt anyone but Apples iron grip over ios

Ok.  There are a bunch of things you can’t do with an iPhone, not because an iPhone can’t do them but because programs that allow them to be done isn’t allowed into the App Store.  Reference that kid who accidentally injected ransomware  into a major system because he downloaded some pirate crap infected with it.  Is it a particularly good safety system? No.  Is it a safety system that causes other problems like the one you describe?  Yes.
 

 But it’s all there is.  

 

Produce a better option and my view could change.  All I see right now though is people trying to wreck an admittedly problematic quarantine measure. 

[Spindel]

23 minutes ago, Arika S said:

how is giving someone MORE options "destroying" anything?

 

the app store will still exist, it will still be the primary place to get apps, but if a dev wants to release on iOS but cannot afford the cost of the app store, they can host it themselves or on a cheaper store and still get it out to customers

You want more options get an Android handset, leave iOS alone. 

 

This isn't late 90's Microsoft that basically controlled over 90% of the entire personal computer space. In the mobile phone market you still  have lots of options. 

 

But to adress your question directly. Just being allowed to install another app store opens up new attack vectors in the system. Or do you think apple should allow these other app stores through their app store? And in that case should apple provide this service for free for hosting bandwidth, exposure and server space?

 

Again, if you want options go for Android.

 

If you are a developer and don't like to give a cut to apple for the exposure to the entire installbase skip iOS and go Android only. Oh wait! that won't happen because even if greedy apple take a 30 % cut you still make more money of that platform because Apple users actually pay for apps. If your margins are to low with apples cut, raise the price. 

 

And I heard Lukes complaints when FloatPlane was doing it's iOS app. Wtf it's a video streaming service, why even have an app in the appstore in the first place. Just make a damn good mobile page or an web app. Oh yeah that's right because then you don't get the exposure of App Store. 

 

This entire thing is so damn retarded. 

[Arika]

7 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Ok.  There are a bunch of things you can’t do with an iPhone, not because an iPhone can’t do them but because programs that allow them to be done isn’t allowed into the App Store.  Reference that kid who accidentally injected ransomware  into a major system because he downloaded some pirate crap infected with it.  Is it a particularly good safety system? No.  Is it a safety system that causes other problems like the one you describe?  Yes.
 

 But it’s all there is.  

 

Produce a better option and my view could change.  All I see right now though is people trying to wreck an admittedly problematic quarantine measure. 

So your argument is.....? 

 

Just because someone else can download something on their phone that might be sketchy, doesn't make Your phone less secure. 

 

Also see:

 

 

128mil iPhones had sketchy apps FROM the app store directly. The supposed saving grace of IOS. 

 

Third party stores will be putting you at no more risk if you don't decide to use them. But again at least it's a CHOICE. 

[Bombastinator]

22 minutes ago, Arika S said:

And you as a user don't have to worry about getting things from anywhere but the app store if you don't want to. Giving other people the option doesn't dimish your experience 

there is an argument for independent users.  Companies buy stuff too though.  

[Arika]

5 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

there is an argument for independent users.  Companies buy stuff too though.  

and the companies that buy them for their employees have controls set on them. My brother has a work issued iphone and cannot even install apps from the app store it literally has to be done by their IT team, same can be done regardless of the source or the end device. Does Apple still own your phone after purchasing it or not? They sure do act like it is and people are more than happy to let Apple control what they do on their own property...for some reason.

 

The opening of other app stores and sideloading is not a flood gate for "stop all control everywhere forever" it's literally just "give us other options". No one has ever presented me a case where options are a bad thing.

[Bombastinator]

9 minutes ago, Arika S said:

So your argument is.....? 

 

Just because someone else can download something on their phone that might be sketchy, doesn't make Your phone less secure. 

 

Also see:

 

 

128mil iPhones had sketchy apps FROM the app store directly. The supposed saving grace of IOS. 

 

Third party stores will be putting you at no more risk if you don't decide to use them. But again at least it's a CHOICE. 

Obviously it can from the already given example.  the company that got ransomwared didn’t download it.  

[Bombastinator]

5 minutes ago, Arika S said:

and the companies that buy them for their employees have controls set on them. My brother has a work issued iphone and cannot even install apps from the app store it literally has to be done by their IT team, same can be done regardless of the source or the end device. Does Apple still own your phone after purchasing it or not? They sure do act like it is and people are more than happy to let Apple control what they do on their own property...for some reason.

 

The opening of other app stores and sideloading is not a flood gate for "stop all control everywhere forever" it's literally just "give us other options". No one has ever presented me a case where options are a bad thing.

The personal recoginicence and freedom argument.  If it really really does only work in one direction there could be a point.  As far as I can tell it doesnt though.  It really very rarely does completely. 

[Arika]

8 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Obviously it can from the already given example.  the company that got ransomwared didn’t download it.  

you mean the university? they let a student download and install a unknown program onto something connected to their network, that comes down to a lack of competency on the part of their IT department. Using them as an example, then it would be Windows' fault that they dont have a locked down store where you can only download "approved" programs, and just let everyone go HaaM.

 

31 minutes ago, Spindel said:

But to address your question directly. Just being allowed to install another app store opens up new attack vectors in the system

Sorry, do you REALLY think that Apple being Apple wouldn't be able to put something in their OS that prevents any unknown apps from being installed without the user agreeing to it? Android already has this, hell my phone can be set for each app individually as well

 

 

Apple can put it behind face/touch ID so it cannot be forced (like purchases/downloads from within the app store). if a user agrees and fucks up, that's on them.

 

I'm not sure if you're arguing that Apple is incompetent when it comes to their own OS or not.

 

37 minutes ago, Spindel said:

Or do you think apple should allow these other app stores through their app store?

no, that's the point of what i'm saying, not having to use the app store at ALL, which makes

 

37 minutes ago, Spindel said:

And in that case should apple provide this service for free for hosting bandwidth, exposure and server space?

irrelevant

 

 

 

[Helpful Tech Witch]

5 hours ago, Ashley MLP Fangirl said:

i could respond to this but why would i bother

please, indulge me

[Ashleyyyy]

6 minutes ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

please, indulge me

fine. you claim android is as secure as Windows as a justification for allowing APK installs. 

 

Windows is one of the worst OS's out there when it comes to security, it's nutorious for it. the only OS's that beat it in terms of security issues are EOL OS's, often Windows versions too. 

 

not the best argument to use to convince me that sideloading apps is a good idea lmao

[Helpful Tech Witch]

53 minutes ago, Ashley MLP Fangirl said:

fine. you claim android is as secure as Windows as a justification for allowing APK installs. 

 

Windows is one of the worst OS's out there when it comes to security, it's nutorious for it. the only OS's that beat it in terms of security issues are EOL OS's, often Windows versions too. 

 

not the best argument to use to convince me that sideloading apps is a good idea lmao

its still your fucking device. so what if you can install every type of malware 8 ways from Wednesday?

would you like it if your car decided: Hey you know what? That 3rd party cruise control (or any other 3rd party upgrade)? Lets just, not let you do that, and make my driver pay a fee to. 

No one would accept that, so ehy should someoen accept that for a phone.

 

anythings insecure if your stupid. Thats a fact of life. That doesnt mean that you should automatically say "hey your stupid, so you cant use your device that you payed us thousands of doallars for?

[Bombastinator]

6 hours ago, Arika S said:

you mean the university? they let a student download and install a unknown program onto something connected to their network, that comes down to a lack of competency on the part of their IT department. Using them as an example, then it would be Windows' fault that they dont have a locked down store where you can only download "approved" programs, and just let everyone go HaaM.

 

Sorry, do you REALLY think that Apple being Apple wouldn't be able to put something in their OS that prevents any unknown apps from being installed without the user agreeing to it? Android already has this, hell my phone can be set for each app individually as well

 

 

Apple can put it behind face/touch ID so it cannot be forced (like purchases/downloads from within the app store). if a user agrees and fucks up, that's on them.

 

I'm not sure if you're arguing that Apple is incompetent when it comes to their own OS or not.

 

no, that's the point of what i'm saying, not having to use the app store at ALL, which makes

 

irrelevant

 

 

 

I don’t remember who it was specifically.  It was some ransomware attack or other that was unusually troublesome.  I read that some kid downloaded something pirated that was loaded with malware and caused the problem. I don’t know if it was a university or not. Assuming it was though, the ability to turn off protections is still a problem.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

1 minute ago, Bombastinator said:

I don’t remember who it was specifically.  It was some ransomware attack or other that was unusually troublesome.  I read that some kid downloaded something pirated that was loaded with malware and caused the problem. I don’t know if it was a university or not. E

it was a covid research centre.

[CarlBar]

2 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

I don’t remember who it was specifically.  It was some ransomware attack or other that was unusually troublesome.  I read that some kid downloaded something pirated that was loaded with malware and caused the problem. I don’t know if it was a university or not. Assuming it was though, the ability to turn off protections is still a problem.

 

No the inability of the IT team was the problem. Good IT security means making sure your employees can't do this sort of stuff with company devuices. You as a company own those devices so you get to say what can and cannot be done with them.

 

Remember COVID19 research has been the target of state espionage pretty much from the start. having such lax security on the IT side has much worse consequences than some random person installing ransomware. Foreign intelligence agencies have aces to the kind of tools needed to put research harvesting software onto even supposedly secure devices like an iOS one, if you IT security can't stop that from spreading your hosed no matter what.

 

And this applies to any large scale corporate environment, there's too many people wit too many reasons to want to screw you over for bad IT security to not bite you on the bum no matter whose devices your using.

 

In the case of someones personal device. The consequences start and stop with them, there's no terrible outside consequences for other people, and it's their choice to decide to use or not use other sources of software with all of the upsides and downsides that come with that.