Socketed GPU?

[Helpful Tech Witch]

3 minutes ago, olliecoding321 said:

The gpu can pull a max of 1a but only pulls 5ma power is not forced in by the motherboard, the gpu pulls as much power it needs up to 1a

That's not how it works. It pulls wattage. But ampragevisnt normally changeable. You get what you get. The voltage and Amprage is what is chosen by the power supply.

[olliecoding321]

2 minutes ago, minibois said:

I think we need to take a step back in this thread.

OP, why do you think the GPU should be socketed onto the motherboard? How does our current system, with using a motherboard plus a graphics card in a PCIe slot fail to meet the requirements you have for it? 

What improvement would we see with a socketed GPU?

 

How do you foresee compatability between Nvidia/Radeon GPU's and how do you expect the memory should be added?

Keep in mind, many people will upgrade their graphics cards years after purchasing their PC, don't you think a motherboard would get out of date really quickly, considering the memory types in graphics cards improve after all those years?

What I was thinking is that you could have a socketed gpu with dedicated memory lanes so you could upgrade your gpu without having to buy a whole new card and having an old one sitting around. I also thought this would be better because your brand new 3090 that you just bought in a pre-built pc wouldn't turn up ripped out of the slot and the motherboard damaged. It would mean that pcs could be more compact and consumers could still feel free to upgrade and change, because currently some compact pcs have integrated basically everything on to one PCB. Then there is memory, if your gpu had 4gbs of vram and you decided to start doing 3d rendering or 4k/8k video editing 4gbs wouldn't usually be enough, so being able to add memory to your gpu would be cheaper than buying a whole new gpu then wondering what to do with your old one.

Is my point clear?

[akio123008]

25 minutes ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

Yeah, but giving a 1a to 5ma will kill it. 

Electric current is like the flow rate of water in a hose, with the device you power being like a waterwheel/turbine somewhere along that hose.

 

The flow rate through the turbine (and therefore the speed of the turbine) only changes if:

 

- the water pressure increases/decreases

- the turbine/waterwheel gets harder/easier to spin

 

The water pressure corresponds to the voltage of the electrical system, which is constant in most situations (like 12V in a computer for instance).

 

This means, because the voltage is constant, the current depends purely on how hard it is to spin the waterwheel. If it's easier to spin, you get a higher flow rate. In electrical terms; the lower the resistance, the larger the electric current. 

 

The flow-rate was determined by how hard it is to turn the water turbine. Same thing for an electrical system; the current is determined by the electrical resistance of the component. 

 

So it's the component that determines how much current flows.

 

8 minutes ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

The voltage and Amprage is what is chosen by the power supply.

The voltage is kept constant (12V or 5/3.3 for some components), and as mentioned above, the current is drawn by the component.

 

Therefore as P = V x I (power is voltage times current) when the component draws more current (let's more "water" flow through) the I in the equation increases, therefore the power increases, and that's why we say that the component draws more power.

 

[WhitetailAni]

Just now, olliecoding321 said:

What I was thinking is that you could have a socketed gpu with dedicated memory lanes so you could upgrade your gpu without having to buy a whole new card and having an old one sitting around. I also thought this would be better because your brand new 3090 that you just bought in a pre-built pc wouldn't turn up ripped out of the slot and the motherboard damaged. It would mean that pcs could be more compact and consumers could still feel free to upgrade and change, because currently some compact pcs have integrated basically everything on to one PCB. Then there is memory, if your gpu had 4gbs of vram and you decided to start doing 3d rendering or 4k/8k video editing 4gbs wouldn't usually be enough, so being able to add memory to your gpu would be cheaper than buying a whole new gpu then wondering what to do with your old one.

Is my point clear?

Yes, but it introduces a whole new layer of complexity.

Instead of having just 2 pools to pick from for CPUs, you now have 16 options.
Plus, what if I want to use a GTX 265 with my Ryzen 5 3600 system? I doubt the GTX 200 series socket is on my AM4 motherboard.

[olliecoding321]

6 minutes ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

That's not how it works. It pulls wattage. But ampragevisnt normally changeable. You get what you get. The voltage and Amprage is what is chosen by the power supply.

Watts = Volts x Amps

Overclocking changes the voltage that is put in to the gpu

Amps or current is drawn by the gpu into itself therefore the wattage used goes up when the gpu is under higher loads because more of the gpu is being used to handle the higher loads and if more of the gpu is being used it draws more current but at the same voltage.

That IS how a gpu works.

That IS a FACT.

[olliecoding321]

4 minutes ago, akio123008 said:

Electric current is like the flow rate of water in a hose, with the device you power being like a waterwheel/turbine somewhere along that hose.

 

The flow rate through the turbine (and therefore the speed of the turbine) only changes if:

 

- the water pressure increases/decreases

- the turbine/waterwheel gets harder/easier to spin

 

The water pressure corresponds to the voltage of the electrical system, which is constant in most situations (like 12V in a computer for instance).

 

This means, because the voltage is constant, the current depends purely on how hard it is to spin the waterwheel. If it's easier to spin, you get a higher flow rate. In electrical terms; the lower the resistance, the larger the electric current. 

 

The flow-rate was determined by how hard it is to turn the water turbine. Same thing for an electrical system; the current is determined by the electrical resistance of the component. 

 

So it's the component that determines how much current flows.

 

The voltage is kept constant (12V or 5/3.3 for some components), and as mentioned above, the current is drawn by the component.

 

Therefore as P = V x I (power is voltage times current) when the component draws more current (let's more "water" flow through) the I in the equation increases, therefore the power increases, and that's why we say that the component draws more power.

 

Correct

Thank you 

Finally someone who understands

[olliecoding321]

4 minutes ago, FakeKGB said:

Yes, but it introduces a whole new layer of complexity.

Instead of having just 2 pools to pick from for CPUs, you now have 16 options.
Plus, what if I want to use a GTX 265 with my Ryzen 5 3600 system? I doubt the GTX 200 series socket is on my AM4 motherboard.

Because motherboards don't have gpu sockets so a socket would have to be created, that is what I am suggesting

[WhitetailAni]

1 minute ago, olliecoding321 said:

Watts = Volts x Amps

True.

1 minute ago, olliecoding321 said:

Overclocking changes the voltage that is put in to the gpu

Not always.

1 minute ago, olliecoding321 said:

Amps or current is drawn by the gpu into itself therefore the wattage used goes up when the gpu is under higher loads because more of the gpu is being used to handle the higher loads and if more of the gpu is being used it draws more current but at the same voltage.

That IS how a gpu works.

That IS a FACT.

Watts increases because the GPU runs hotter because it is running faster as well.

So you are partially right, but not fully right.

[WhitetailAni]

Just now, olliecoding321 said:

Because motherboards don't have gpu sockets so a socket would have to be created, that is what I am suggesting

Yes, they do.

It's called a PCIe slot, and it's compatible with basically any GPU ever.

[olliecoding321]

Just now, FakeKGB said:

True.

Not always.

Watts increases because the GPU runs hotter because it is running faster as well.

So you are partially right, but not fully right.

Not because of the the heat

Because higher load = more used % of the gpu = more transistors need power = more current drawn

[olliecoding321]

1 minute ago, FakeKGB said:

Yes, they do.

It's called a PCIe slot, and it's compatible with basically any GPU ever.

a PCIe slot is for the card and the gpu is integrated into the card

The GRAPHICS CARD goes into the slot and the GRAPHICS PROCESSING UNIT is soldered to the GRAPHICS CARD

[minibois]

OP, I admire, your thoughts and optimism, but keep in mind you are not looking at the bigger pictures of making motherboards with a GPU & CPU socket.

 

At the moment, I can go to any webstore and purchase any kind of CPU and then go pick out a motherboard.

We have Intel, we have AMD. Gigabyte, ASUS, MSI and the likes make motherboards for these CPU's. Let's conservatively say, they probably have one or two motherboards per chipset.

At the moment - looking at LGA 1200 and the 500-series of AM4 - that's that's 7 chipsets, 14 motherboards per vendor.

Now each of these motherboard manufacturers have 14 different motherboards per generation. Now you want them to also make a GPU socket (including VRMs, memory slots, etc.). 

 

Of course we all know GPU's are made by AMD Radeon and Nvidia, but let's assume a perfect picture where they magically both want to be supported by this GPU socket.

These videocards range from basic to advanced and require different levels of components to pair with (VRMs, memory amounts, etc.).

Do you think each of these motherboard manufacturers will be able to make a motherboard fit for every chipset and level of GPU?

 

Even if they make a 'basic board' for your Nvidia xx60 and lower cards and a 'high end' board for the xx70 cards and higher, that's still doubling their product stack, per generation.

 

Do you see the logistical issue with this?

 

Of course this is ignoring all the technical reasons not to do this, but do you realize how this is an enormous undertaking to radically change a system we've had for a couple decades, just to be able to upgrade a GPU cheaper, or add more memory?

[Helpful Tech Witch]

7 minutes ago, olliecoding321 said:

Watts = Volts x Amps

Overclocking changes the voltage that is put in to the gpu

Amps or current is drawn by the gpu into itself therefore the wattage used goes up when the gpu is under higher loads because more of the gpu is being used to handle the higher loads and if more of the gpu is being used it draws more current but at the same voltage.

That IS how a gpu works.

That IS a FACT.

No, that's not. Plugging a powersupply (not PSU, just something stat supplies power) that supply's 1a, 5v will fry something that needs .05a, 5v

[WhitetailAni]

1 minute ago, olliecoding321 said:

Not because of the the heat

Because higher load = more used % of the gpu = more transistors need power = more current drawn

You just said "X is not true, because Y is true, also X = Y."
In a more technical aspect, yes, you're correct.
But anyway, see why we use PCIe slots instead of sockets?

[olliecoding321]

The heat is created because of the resistance in the copper channels and the transistors

resistance generates heat

[olliecoding321]

3 minutes ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

No, that's not. Plugging a powersupply that supply's 1a, 5v will try something that needs .05a, 5v

it will provide half of its max current because amps are pulled by the component not pushed by the power supply 

[akio123008]

1 minute ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

 that supply's 1a, 5v will fry something that needs .05a, 5v

It doesn't.

Please read my post. 

 

[Helpful Tech Witch]

1 minute ago, olliecoding321 said:

it will provide half of its max current because amps are pulled by the component not pushed by the power supply 

Which would fry the gpu. .5 =/= .05

[olliecoding321]

Did anyone see that earlier I said maybe we could have PCIe cards with a gpu SOCKET on it instead of the motherboard

[WhitetailAni]

Just now, olliecoding321 said:

Did anyone see that earlier I said maybe we could have PCIe cards with a gpu SOCKET on it instead of the motherboard

MXM modules, with MXM to PCIe converters.

They didn't catch on well.

[olliecoding321]

Just now, HelpfulTechWizard said:

Which would fry the gpu. .5 =/= .05

You need to learn some more about electricity because if the gpu draws 0.5 amps and the power supply is rated for 1.0 amps then the gpu will only get 0.5 amps because it tells the power supply that it needs 0.5 amps and the power supply only outputs 0.5 amps

[olliecoding321]

2 minutes ago, FakeKGB said:

MXM modules, with MXM to PCIe converters.

They didn't catch on well.

I am suggesting a new type of PCIe card

[WhitetailAni]

1 minute ago, olliecoding321 said:

because it tells the power supply that it needs 0.5 amps and the power supply only outputs 0.5 amps

The power supply has no way of knowing that it wants 0.5 amps.

There's no "data" wires on power lines.

Just power.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

1 minute ago, olliecoding321 said:

You need to learn some more about electricity because if the gpu draws 0.5 amps and the power supply is rated for 1.0 amps then the gpu will only get 0.5 amps because it tells the power supply that it needs 0.5 amps and the power supply only outputs 0.5 amps

You need some more about math because half of 1 amp will be too much for something that needs .05a.

 

[olliecoding321]

I am sorry that I suggested the creation of a new type of technology I didn't know that it is impossible for people outside of pc part companies to to come up with new ideas for tech