Need to measure voltage on PCI-E rails, can't find any viable program!

[empleat]

Hello,

 

i have issue with PCI-E undervolting and i need to exclude components to find out cause of the issue! HWINFO measures that on my 2070 Super, but doesn't on 780! I tried also GPU-Z and AIDA without luck and google found nothing... It is weird that 780 couldn't measure that, that technology isn't probably that old right? Any idea how do i measure voltage on PCI-E rails. What software can do that?

 

Thanks!

[GorujoCY]

the PCIe rails is measured by your motherboard if I know correctly, not GPU, also you could try GPU-Z for this case (download it from techpowerup)

[Kilrah]

That level of detail in measurements/reporting is pretty new, yes.

[Radium_Angel]

3 minutes ago, empleat said:

Any idea how do i measure voltage on PCI-E rails. What software can do that?

My bet is you will need a hardware tester, like a voltmeter, rather than any software.

[GorujoCY]

1 minute ago, Kilrah said:

That level of detail in measurements/reporting is pretty new, yes.

ahh ok, I'm not that familiar to older hardware but nice to know

[GorujoCY]

Just now, Radium_Angel said:

My bet is you will need a hardware tester, like a voltmeter, rather than any software.

I think GPU-Z does do this sort of measure when the GPU Supports it

[empleat]

3 minutes ago, Radium_Angel said:

My bet is you will need a hardware tester, like a voltmeter, rather than any software.

Oooooof... I will have to just try some else combination, or claim warranty on multiple parts. Thanks for answer...

[Radium_Angel]

3 minutes ago, GorujoCY said:

I think GPU-Z does do this sort of measure when the GPU Supports it

This is correct, but like measuring the power output from a PSU, if you need an accurate number all the time, you need to go with a hardware tester.

 

1 minute ago, empleat said:

Oooooof... I will have to just try some else combination, or claim warranty on multiple parts. Thanks for answer...

What, exactly, is the issue you are having?

[empleat]

8 minutes ago, Radium_Angel said:

This is correct, but like measuring the power output from a PSU, if you need an accurate number all the time, you need to go with a hardware tester.

 

What, exactly, is the issue you are having?

PCI-E is undervolted. Nvidia support told me that it should never drop under 11.72v on 12v 8 pin and i have also one 6 pin, https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uIn-EICzUN3lixMRqoeP1husPIBKHtaG/view

Looks like my drivers are crashing. I will have to test psu and new gpu in my old PC to exclude vertical mount and motherboard, so i don't have to claim warranty on all these components... This is on 2070 SUPER. Corsair RM650x 2018. 2 different pci-e cables.

[Radium_Angel]

1 minute ago, empleat said:

PCI-E is undervolted

If you can't get an accurate measurement, how do you know this?

[empleat]

Just now, Radium_Angel said:

If you can't get an accurate measurement, how do you know this?

 

20 minutes ago, empleat said:

HWINFO measures that on my 2070 Super, but doesn't on 780!

 

[Kilrah]

If you refer to the 6/8pin connectors being too low (this wasn't clearly mentioned until now, sounded you wanted to undervolt the slot for some reason) then replace PSU, nothing else would be suspect.

[Radium_Angel]

24 minutes ago, empleat said:

 

 

Assuming that's accurate. Are you measuring at idle, or under load?

Are you getting any BSoDs? I can analyze the crash dump files...

[mariushm]

That GPU Pci-e 12v is the 12v in the pci-e slot, which comes from the 24 pin ATX connector. The same connector powers all fans and other pci-e devices.

 

Make sure both 12v wires in the 24 pin connector (google 24 pin atx pinout) are properly inserted. If you have extensions, make sure the extension has 12v sense wire, IF the original cables had sense wire.

Power supplies "measure" the voltage reaching the 24pin atx connector through a "sense" wire and increase or decrease the voltage as needed ... for example, if the voltage at the connector is 11.8v, the power supply may raise the voltage coming out the power supply to 12.2v so that by the time it reaches the 24pin atx connector, it's 12v.

 

Get a digital multimeter, it's as cheap as 2-3$. Set the multimeter on DC voltage, set the black probe on any grounded bit - a standoff screw, the middle wires in the molex (old style hdd) connector, any GND/COM wire in the 24pin pinout - and you put the other probe on the 12v wires in the 24pin atx connector or on the 6 / 8 pin pci-e connectors.

 

 

[empleat]

On 1/2/2021 at 3:04 PM, Radium_Angel said:

Assuming that's accurate. Are you measuring at idle, or under load?

Are you getting any BSoDs? I can analyze the crash dump files...

Under load, did firestrike test.

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/notifications/topic/201149/

 

No BSOD 6 months, issue started like since 1 month after I got this computer. Can't be sure about exact period. I got one BSOD recently, only 1 ever! When I was changing a page file and it was tied to disks. So it is probably not related!

 

https://www.tenforums.com/bsod-crashes-debugging/171375-bsod-when-changing-page-file-system-managed.html

 

 

On 1/2/2021 at 3:06 PM, mariushm said:

That GPU Pci-e 12v is the 12v in the pci-e slot, which comes from the 24 pin ATX connector. The same connector powers all fans and other pci-e devices.

Huh? HWINFO showed also 6-pin and 8-pin pci-e cable being undervolted under 11.72v.

On 1/2/2021 at 3:06 PM, mariushm said:

Make sure both 12v wires in the 24 pin connector (google 24 pin atx pinout) are properly inserted.

When I was removing it, it was firmly holding there. I even tried to push it in before. I did this many times. I am 99% sure it was properly inserted! Never had any problems of sorts!

 

On 1/2/2021 at 3:06 PM, mariushm said:

make sure the extension has 12v sense wire, IF the original cables had sense wire.

Hahaha you expect me to find that out how?

https://www.coolermaster.com/catalog/cases/accessories/vertical-graphics-card-holder-kit/

 

I mean you couldn't know that, that there is not this information about this product in particular! But I am saying, it is total joke: manufacturers give you least information as possible, so you can't find about pitfalls of their product. I could ask, even they usually don't answer these questions directly, or say nothing... But I am going to claim warranty today. Won't be able to do that!

 

Also on Nvidia support, when I tested this without the vertical mount on an older motherboard. He said it like it would a problem, that GPU doesn't draw 75W from motherboard first. He just said that didn't explain anything.

 

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/gaming-pcs/8/422183/nvidia-controller-panel-randomly-disappearing/

 

On 1/2/2021 at 3:06 PM, mariushm said:

Get a digital multimeter, it's as cheap as 2-3$. Set the multimeter on DC voltage, set the black probe on any grounded bit - a standoff screw, the middle wires in the molex (old style hdd) connector, any GND/COM wire in the 24pin pinout - and you put the other probe on the 12v wires in the 24pin atx connector or on the 6 / 8 pin pci-e connectors.

Get a digital multimeter, it's as cheap as 2-3$?

Lol 2-3$? 

 

That's a great idea. I could do that, that would save me potentially time and RMA incorrect part!

 

I don't know which one to get some are limited to 10A, I have no idea how much amps are in PSU. And there are other specs, no idea what are important to this measurement...

 

Like would this one, for example, be ok? https://www.alza.cz/hobby/retlux-rdm-3001-d5111674.htm

[Radium_Angel]

39 minutes ago, empleat said:

Under load, did firestrike test.

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/notifications/topic/201149/

 

No BSOD 6 months, issue started like since 1 month after I got this computer. Can't be sure about exact period. I got one BSOD recently, only 1 ever! When I was changing a page file and it was tied to disks. So it is probably not related!

 

https://www.tenforums.com/bsod-crashes-debugging/171375-bsod-when-changing-page-file-system-managed.html

 

 

Huh? HWINFO showed also 6-pin and 8-pin pci-e cable being undervolted under 11.72v.

When I was removing it, it was firmly holding there. I even tried to push it in before. I did this many times. I am 99% sure it was properly inserted! Never had any problems of sorts!

 

Hahaha you expect me to find that out how?

https://www.coolermaster.com/catalog/cases/accessories/vertical-graphics-card-holder-kit/

 

I mean you couldn't know that, that there is not this information about this product in particular! But I am saying, it is total joke: manufacturers give you least information as possible, so you can't find about pitfalls of their product. I could ask, even they usually don't answer these questions directly, or say nothing... But I am going to claim warranty today. Won't be able to do that!

 

Also on Nvidia support, when I tested this without the vertical mount on an older motherboard. He said it like it would a problem, that GPU doesn't draw 75W from motherboard first. He just said that didn't explain anything.

 

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/gaming-pcs/8/422183/nvidia-controller-panel-randomly-disappearing/

 

Get a digital multimeter, it's as cheap as 2-3$?

Lol 2-3$? 

 

That's a great idea. I could do that, that would save me potentially time and RMA incorrect part!

 

I don't know which one to get some are limited to 10A, I have no idea how much amps are in PSU. And there are other specs, no idea what are important to this measurement...

 

Like would this one, for example, be ok? https://www.alza.cz/hobby/retlux-rdm-3001-d5111674.htm

What power supply do you have? It's say on the technical specs how much amps it pushes.

[empleat]

9 minutes ago, Radium_Angel said:

What power supply do you have? It's say on the technical specs how much amps it pushes.

Oh okay i will look, corsair RM650x (2018)

 I will post picture...

[Radium_Angel]

11 minutes ago, empleat said:

Oh okay i will look, corsair RM650x (2018)

 I will post picture...

I think the multimeter you posted will be fine, you won't be testing the mobo under load anyway. Just be careful and read the instructions, I've never used a multimeter on a PC like this before

[empleat]

5 minutes ago, Radium_Angel said:

I think the multimeter you posted will be fine, you won't be testing the mobo under load anyway. Just be careful and read the instructions, I've never used a multimeter on a PC like this before

Nvidia dev says it wouldn't test anything. As it will differ under heavy load! Yeah as you said. I will RMA it probably is the best thing to do!

[mariushm]

1 hour ago, empleat said:

Huh? HWINFO showed also 6-pin and 8-pin pci-e cable being undervolted under 11.72v.

When I was removing it, it was firmly holding there. I even tried to push it in before. I did this many times. I am 99% sure it was properly inserted! Never had any problems of sorts!

HWInfo reports the values the controller chip on the card measures. If the controller chip on the card is poorly calibrated, the it will give HWInfo bad values.

Also, the video card should give you one voltage reading for the PCI-e SLOT and one voltage reading for the additional power connectors.

1 hour ago, empleat said:

Hahaha you expect me to find that out how?

By using your brains. You know you have a corsair RM650x so you can simply THINK and type in google "RM650x pinout"

Literally the 6th result on first page of results is this page: https://www.modders-inc.com/power-supply-pinout-repository/8/

So I scrolled down and found out RM650x uses Corsair Type 4 cable set

 

Also see this link : http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?13740-Corsair-cable-compatibility-and-pinouts

 

And another quick google search for "corsair type 4 pinout" gave me this picture I already uploaded in another post some time ago

These are the connectors on the psu side.  See that 12v Sense in the corner ? A wire should be there and should go in one of the two 12v pins on the 24pin connector on the motherboard. If the sense wire is missing or not connected properly the power supply can't measure the voltage at the motherboard level.

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, empleat said:

https://www.coolermaster.com/catalog/cases/accessories/vertical-graphics-card-holder-kit/

 

I mean you couldn't know that, that there is not this information about this product in particular! But I am saying, it is total joke: manufacturers give you least information as possible, so you can't find about pitfalls of their product. I could ask, even they usually don't answer these questions directly, or say nothing... But I am going to claim warranty today. Won't be able to do that!

I didn't see you use those vertical mounting things.  The extension could be a problem, there could be voltage loss in the slot due to the extension.

 

1 hour ago, empleat said:

Get a digital multimeter, it's as cheap as 2-3$?

Lol 2-3$? 

 

These used to be 1-2$ before the corona virus hit and shipping got expensive : https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-DT-830B-Digital-Multimeter-AC-DC-Voltmeter-Ohmmeter-Electrical-Multi-Tester/191826539462

They're not great, but even these shitty ones can measure DC voltage with 0.5-1% accuracy and you don't need more than that.

You're not measuring CURRENT (amps), you just want to measure the voltage at the connectors by placing one probe on a negative pin (ground or common)  and one probe on the positive voltage pin (12v, 3.3v, 5v)

If the voltage at the connector is 11.72v and the video card says 11.72v as well, you know the video card measures correctly and you're good to go. 

Even with 1-2% error, you'll basically have 1-2 digits of error, so instead of measuring 11.72v you may see 11.70..11.74v on display... which is still good enough for your needs.

 

 

1 hour ago, empleat said:

 

Like would this one, for example, be ok? https://www.alza.cz/hobby/retlux-rdm-3001-d5111674.htm

 

A bit overkill for simple dc voltage measurement but i suppose it would work.

If you're willing to spend that much, I'd suggest the Uni-T multimeters as they're decent quality with decent construction and have some of the best lcd screens in the business.

The Uni-T UT131C would be great for a beginner : https://www.alza.cz/hobby/uni-t-ut131c-d5773380.htm

but if want cheap, the Uni-T UT131B is OK, you only lose temperature measurement : https://www.alza.cz/hobby/uni-t-ut131b-d5773382.htm

 

 

[empleat]

11 minutes ago, mariushm said:

HWInfo reports the values the controller chip on the card measures. If the controller chip on the card is poorly calibrated, the it will give HWInfo bad values.

Also, the video card should give you one voltage reading for the PCI-e SLOT and one voltage reading for the additional power connectors.

Quote

I have issues, Nvidia control panel is disappearing. Nvidia support said: it could mean drivers are crashing. That's how I found about that in the first place.

Yeah I know it gives for pci.

 

10 minutes ago, mariushm said:

By using your brains.

I have massive headache right now and I thought you mean vertical mount, as you said extension and cable. And since I don't know any extension cables from PSU to ATX, or PCI-E.

 

TL:DR it is probably PSU, as voltage is dropping on PCI-E port ( slot on a different motherboard), from same PSU. So it is not likely 2 motherboards would have same problem at the same time!