Motherboard PCB layers

[Orian Pax]

so how one can know/find how many layers does a motherboard PCB have?
is it listed on some sort of website?
(like how does buildzoid finds them?)

(it's not even here --> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wmsTYK9Z3-jUX5LGRoFnsZYZiW1pfiDZnKCjaXyzd1o/edit#gid=2112472504 )
 

[WereCatf]

4 minutes ago, Kpp550 said:

so how one can know/find how many layers does a motherboard PCB have?
is it listed on some sort of website?

One can attempt to count them with a magnifying-glass, one may find schematics on sketchy sites, one may have associates in places where they have access to such info.. But no, such things are irrelevant to regular consumers, so there's no point in listing such info anywhere official, either.

[GorujoCY]

ASRock does tell how many layers of pcb they use. Asus TUF Mobos does also use 2oz layer of pcb. (and expensive ones like Asus ROG)

 

I think most of the others use only 1oz which is most probably on chipsets motherboards like H Series from intel or A320 by AMD, etc.

 

It's really rough to see layers because most manufacturers don't say how many layers they use however you could always look at the manufacturer website and see if they mention the layers.

 

Edit: as the above posts says, Informations like these are irrelevant to consumers, unless you are really scared that you are going to break the pcb

 

 

 

[AndreiArgeanu]

Some PCB's (not sure if it applies to motherboards as well) have the layers labelled, so for example the top layer might be L1 and the bottom might be L6. If it doesn't have that label, you can also cut a motherboard and see that as well, but generally speaking how many layers a PCB has doesn't really matter that much.

[FAZIN]

3 minutes ago, AndreiArgeanu said:

Some PCB's (not sure if it applies to motherboards as well) have the layers labelled, so for example the top layer might be L1 and the bottom might be L6. If it doesn't have that label, you can also cut a motherboard and see that as well, but generally speaking how many layers a PCB has doesn't really matter that much.

An L marked on a PCB would be referring to an inductor and not the PCB layer.

[AndreiArgeanu]

12 minutes ago, FAZIN said:

An L marked on a PCB would be referring to an inductor and not the PCB layer.

 

No, I don't think so

[WereCatf]

Just now, AndreiArgeanu said:

No, I don't think so

That's not a very typical PCB, considering that none of the components themselves have any silk-screen markings for them. That's also the first PCB I've ever seen that has PCB-layers marked anywhere, let alone so prominently.

[Orian Pax]

1 hour ago, WereCatf said:

one may find schematics on sketchy sites.

do you know any? if u know any plz share with me.
(if you don't want to share here then you can message me privately, i really need that PEACE of Mind)

thanks for replying btw.

[Orian Pax]

1 hour ago, GorujoCY said:

Asus TUF Mobos does also use 2oz layer of pcb. (and expensive ones like Asus ROG)

how do you know all of this?
 

1 hour ago, GorujoCY said:

I think most of the others use only 1oz which is most probably on chipsets motherboards like H Series from intel or A320 by AMD, etc.

from where do you get this kind of info?
(yes i was talking about this kind of info.)

thanks for replying btw.

[GorujoCY]

8 minutes ago, Kpp550 said:

how do you know all of this?
 

from where do you get this kind of info?
(yes i was talking about this kind of info.)

thanks for replying btw.

most of them are assumptions but as for the rest of them:

 

Asrock mentions in their motherboard on thier pcb design by oz rather than layers which idk whenever it counts or not, but in this example of the b550m pro4, it says it has 2oz, which is probably dual layer pcb:

https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/B550M Pro4/index.asp

 

However Some Asus TUF Motherboards Lineup for example does tell you the layers of pcb, here's an example:

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/TUF-GAMING-X570-PRO-WI-FI/

[Orian Pax]

3 minutes ago, GorujoCY said:

most of them are assumptions but as for the rest of them:

 

Asrock mentions in their motherboard on thier pcb design by oz rather than layers which idk whenever it counts or not, but in this example of the b550m pro4, it says it has 2oz, which is probably dual layer pcb:

https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/B550M Pro4/index.asp

 

However Some Asus TUF Motherboards Lineup for example does tell you the layers of pcb, here's an example:

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/TUF-GAMING-X570-PRO-WI-FI/

yeah i saw them,
one last question
What do you think how many PCB layers does ASUS HERO (wifi) or Dark Hero have?

[GorujoCY]

5 minutes ago, Kpp550 said:

yeah i saw them,
one last question
What do you think how many PCB layers does ASUS HERO (wifi) or Dark Hero have?

I do not know unfortunately, again everything i said was just an assumption except for an example with asrock and tuf gaming, but i don't even think you'll break the pcb of those motherboard if that's what you are worried about, Asus TUF and Flagship motherboard are durable enough for "frustration-less" building imo

[FAZIN]

2 hours ago, AndreiArgeanu said:

No, I don't think so

Normally, yes.

[Blue4130]

4 hours ago, Kpp550 said:

yeah i saw them,
one last question
What do you think how many PCB layers does ASUS HERO (wifi) or Dark Hero have?

Why does it matter to you? 

[GorujoCY]

1 hour ago, Blue4130 said:

Why does it matter to you? 

probably OP is afraid of breaking the pcb and stuff? but i see it rarely happening when you are building a pc.. 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Kpp550 said:

yeah i saw them,
one last question
What do you think how many PCB layers does ASUS HERO (wifi) or Dark Hero have?

The Hero boards are 6 layer  8 layer PCB. (Has dedicated audio layers) You can find this information right on Asus's website. 

 

Here's some additional information for the fundamental understanding of PCB layers.

 

https://emcfastpass.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Stackup_Planning_AN2011_2.pdf

 

Hope this helps.

[WereCatf]

People sure get hung up on the weirdest details. Even just the idea itself of worrying about how many layers a mobo is made of never occurred to me.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, WereCatf said:

People sure get hung up on the weirdest details. Even just the idea itself of worrying about how many layers a mobo is made of never occurred to me.

It used to be a thing that motherboard manufacturers used to brag about the layer count to show up their competitors. Having more layers is better though. You can designate the entire surface area of the board for ground, power delivery and data.. Let's say the surface area design you have to put everything on a single surface area size. Now you have to be crafty with the wiring design and probably drop a few feature components to save space. 

 

But if I'm not mistaken, 6 layer motherboard PCB is pretty much a standard thing now a days. 

Funny enough it's maybe "not important" to most people out there. Processors and motherboards have only been improving in design, layout, power delivery and features. 

Things get smaller as a result. My buddies RTX 3080 is much smaller than my GTX 980. Both beast cards, but the designs are improving very nicely. 

 

TLDR, PCB design is actually pretty important.

[WereCatf]

4 hours ago, ShrimpBrime said:

TLDR, PCB design is actually pretty important

Mmmmno. It's important for the manufacturer, not the consumer. If the board has all the needed features and can handle the load, then it's entirely fucking irrelevant how many layers the PCB is made of.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, WereCatf said:

Mmmmno. It's important for the manufacturer, not the consumer. If the board has all the needed features and can handle the load, then it's entirely fucking irrelevant how many layers the PCB is made of.

It's just a specification. 

Just like your cpu.

 

So it doesnt matter the the fucking consumer the processor boosts to 4.7ghz. 

 

But for some shit ass reason, everyone's gotta know how fast a cpu is and 98% of them dont know the difference between frequency and fuckin IPC. So its shit useless information.

 

What's your point?

[Orian Pax]

17 hours ago, Blue4130 said:

Why does it matter to you? 

@Blue4130That's just one of my queries (i am one of those who wants more and more plus in depth info about things which interests me, i don't think that's illegal is it?, you can that's my introvert side Hungry for Knowledge/data/info.)

 

14 hours ago, ShrimpBrime said:

The Hero boards are 6 layer  8 layer PCB. (Has dedicated audio layers) You can find this information right on Asus's website

@ShrimpBrime
wait where on ASUS website?
or you saying on asus forums? (i just found them didn't know about them)
(https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?94955-Crosshair-VI-Extereme-is-HERE!/page3)

 

14 hours ago, WereCatf said:

People sure get hung up on the weirdest details. Even just the idea itself of worrying about how many layers a mobo is made of never occurred to me.

@WereCatf i am one of those who wants more and more plus in depth info about things which interests me, i don't think that's illegal is it?, you can that's my introvert side Hungry for Knowledge/data/info.)
and i hate being ripped off or lied by anyone and when i heard that top brands does this.... oh my anger... i want to confirm things until there's no doubt left in my mind + i am poor. (no i am not talking about the extra money brands charge bcuz they are the BRAND!)
 

14 hours ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Here's some additional information for the fundamental understanding of PCB layers.

 

https://emcfastpass.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Stackup_Planning_AN2011_2.pdf

 

Hope this helps.

@ShrimpBrimethat sure was helpful thanks for that. this is the kind of info i need actually.
 

 

12 hours ago, ShrimpBrime said:

But if I'm not mistaken, 6 layer motherboard PCB is pretty much a standard thing now a days. 

@ShrimpBrimeYES the standard, i really care about those,
i don't know why ASUS can't put dual bios, Triple M.2 slots, dual front USB 3.0 headers,
armoured PCIe and RAM slots (i guess these don't offer much help but still),
@ sets of thermal sensors,
LEDs which tells which part failed like gigabyte does
on there mobo when the prices are in range of 350$-400$  this should be a standard!
and below knowledge should be commonplace knowledge.
(https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wmsTYK9Z3-jUX5LGRoFnsZYZiW1pfiDZnKCjaXyzd1o/edit#gid=2112472504)

 

9 hours ago, WereCatf said:

. If the board has all the needed features and can handle the load, then it's entirely fucking irrelevant how many layers the PCB is made of

that's not entirely true.
@WereCatf




 

[Orian Pax]

29 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

It's just a specification. 

yes it should be treated that way.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Kpp550 said:

 

@ShrimpBrimeYES the standard, i really care about those,
i don't know why ASUS can't put dual bios, Triple M.2 slots, dual front USB 3.0 headers,
armoured PCIe and RAM slots (i guess these don't offer much help but still),
@ sets of thermal sensors,
LEDs which tells which part failed like gigabyte does
on there mobo when the prices are in range of 350$-400$  this should be a standard!
and below knowledge should be commonplace knowledge.
(https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wmsTYK9Z3-jUX5LGRoFnsZYZiW1pfiDZnKCjaXyzd1o/edit#gid=2112472504)

 

 

Asus doesn't do dual bios because their recovery procedure is super easy. Slap in the motherboard disk that came in the box and recover the bios. It's that simple.

Most stuff I have on USB is still only 2.0. Like keyboards, mice, on and on. USB 3.0 is for external HDD and better transfer speeds mainly. 

 

They still put 2.0 USB on boards for people that will be using an older operating system and need the compatibility say when running W7 for competitive benchmarking purposes.

 

We need to remember the niche market with these expensive boards. A lot of the top Asus boards for example are totally built and geared towards extreme cooling and overclocking. 

 

The best feature I have on my Maximus Hero board is the "retry" button. It has saved me on many OC occasions. Set up some memory and the board doesn't want to post, before it does 3 retries, manually hit the retry button, the board shuts off and tries again from a cold boot. Now THAT is a feature that really appeals to me. But not 99% of the rest of the world lol. 

 

 

 

[Orian Pax]

31 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Asus doesn't do dual bios because their recovery procedure is super easy.Slap in the motherboard disk that came in the box and recover the bios. It's that simple.

wait even from a bricked bios/board?
also for overclockers it saves time too (don't want to change setting just flip the switch and you are on 2nd bios)
 

35 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Most stuff I have on USB is still only 2.0. Like keyboards, mice, on and on. USB 3.0 is for external HDD and better transfer speeds mainly. 

 

They still put 2.0 USB on boards for people that will be using an older operating system and need the compatibility say when running W7 for competitive benchmarking purposes.

i don't have problem with Asus Back Panel USB ports they are literally a lifesaver for me.
But front ones i need one more bcuz external HDD and SSD
 

 

38 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

A lot of the top Asus boards for example are totally built and geared towards extreme cooling and overclocking. 

Small RANT -
yes while at same price point
Gigabyte master has dual bios (they should let users change it manually),
why USB 2.0 on back panel?!!! (charge extra 20-30 bucks but give me 3.0s instead of 2.0s),
they need to remove that fan.
 

 

44 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

The best feature I have on my Maximus Hero board is the "retry" button. It has saved me on many OC occasions. Set up some memory and the board doesn't want to post, before it does 3 retries, manually hit the retry button, the board shuts off and tries again from a cold boot. Now THAT is a feature that really appeals to me. But not 99% of the rest of the world lol. 

i see you are a man of culture too.


As always thanks for replying.

[Guest]

Quote

wait even from a bricked bios/board?

Yes. I've personally done it several times. My very first recovery in this fashion was with an Asus M3A. (that's the entire part number)

The update went bad on me and the board didn't post at all. slapped in the disk, botted from it (yes the disk runs the board) and simply recovered the bios.

Updated it once more and was in business. Super easy. 

Quote

i don't have problem with Asus Back Panel USB ports they are literally a lifesaver for me.
But front ones i need one more bcuz external HDD and SSD

 

Not much anyone can do for that really. Asus designs it their way lol. 

 

Quote

Small RANT -
yes while at same price point
Gigabyte master has dual bios (they should let users change it manually),
why USB 2.0 on back panel?!!! (charge extra 20-30 bucks but give me 3.0s instead of 2.0s),
they need to remove that fan.

Gigabyte dual bios is great! If you brick the bios in a flash, the board is to automatically post from the save your ass bios. It's not meant to be updated. You use it to recover the bricked bios and off you go. 

Again, it's gigabyte's design. This could be due to limitations on the PCB layer as we where discussing earlier. Space is a factor.

 

Quote

i see you are a man of culture too.

Well thank you. I have some experience. Maybe not as much as Bullzoid, or even Linus himself.... But I do enjoy coming in and giving logical opinions and answers to the best of my ability. If I'm wrong with something, I try to remember and accept it and thank for corrections. After all we are not here for a size contest.

 

To the left you see that pot? Did that during Xmas  

SO you can be assured I use hardware in all the ways it was and was not designed to be used. 

Yes, the LN2 jumper was in place.