Refresh rate diminishing returns

[Aereldor]

Of course 30 vs 60hz is night and day, and 60 and 90 is more subtle but still evident and appreciable. 

 

How big is the difference between 90 and 120, and 120 and 144?

 

30 to 60 is a gain of about 16 miliseconds between frames, but 60 to 90 is a gain of only 5.5. 120 gains only 2.7 over 90, and 144 has only 1.4 over 120.

 

Am I correct in saying that, both mathematically and visually, that the difference between 90 and 120 is subtle, and between 120 and 144 it's basically indistinguishable?

 

[Moonzy]

7 minutes ago, Aereldor said:

How big is the difference between 90 and 120, and 120 and 144?

based on my experience:

1) depends on games (fast paced? or exploration/eye candy games)

i find myself unable to accept 60fps osu videos anymore because i tend to play it on 144hz

watching 60fps videos makes me think the video is skipping frames

 

but i have no issues playing SOTR at 60-90fps, i'll only feel it if it's dropping to 45

 

i cant tell the difference between 90 and 240hz in csgo, because i dont play it often, even though it's a fast paced shooter game

 

2) depends on how much time u spend on the game on a certain refresh rate (1000h on 165hz, you'll prob notice if it dropped to 120hz)

i spend about 3000h in osu, i can tell the difference between 73hz and 60hz quite jarringly when i forgot to re-apply my panel's OC back when i was playing on 60hz

 

7 minutes ago, Aereldor said:

Am I correct in saying that, both mathematically and visually, that the difference between 90 and 120 is subtle, and between 120 and 144 it's basically indistinguishable?

yes and no, each individual is different

 

but smoothness wise, it's hardly distinguishable

but response time is affected, from what i can test on myself anyways

[Aereldor]

Just now, Moonzy said:

based on my experience:

1) depends on games (fast paced? or exploration/eye candy games)

2) depends on how much time u spend on the game on a certain refresh rate (1000h on 165hz, you'll prob notice if it dropped to 120hz)

 

yes and no, each individual is different

 

but smoothness wise, it's hardly distinguishable

but response time is affected, from what i can test on myself anyways

So smoothness wise, 90 and 120 might as well be the same?

I'm testing this on an overclocked cheapo IPS monitor that I got to 85hz, and a CRT monitor that does 115hz at 1024x768, they look pretty similar to me although I prefer the CRT for other reasons.

[Downkey]

From my experiences, the difference between 100 and 144 is noticeable, but 100 and 120 isn't very noticeable.

[Moonzy]

2 minutes ago, Aereldor said:

So smoothness wise, 90 and 120 might as well be the same?

i added context to my post, it's quite a complicated question to answer, because "it depends"

[RejZoR]

144Hz for monitors and 90Hz for phones. Not to mention it's very hard to find 100 and 120Hz monitors anyway. You either have 60Hz or 144Hz and beyond.

[Stahlmann]

I'd say i'm so accustomed to high refresh rate display now that i could tell the difference up to 120Hz, but anything higher like 144Hz, 165Hz and 240Hz are not noticeable smoother for me. I see literally no difference between my 144Hz monitor and 120Hz TV. Maybe that's because i play non-competitive singleplayer games most of the time. I've been using 120Hz+ Screens for a few years now and even 60Hz feels sluggish and stuttery to me now. I'd say the minimum FPS i need in a game to truly feel "smooth" to me is 90 FPS.

[Stahlmann]

11 minutes ago, Aereldor said:

I'm testing this on an overclocked cheapo IPS monitor that I got to 85hz

That's a whole other can of worms. Cheap panels tend to have slow pixel response times. There are quite a few 144Hz budget monitors where the pixels are only fast enough for 60Hz. So instead of a 144Hz experience you get a smeary mess comparable to a 60Hz display.

[LogicalDrm]

-> Moved to Displays

[Aereldor]

23 minutes ago, LogicalDrm said:

-> Moved to Displays

Did I post this in another sub by accident? My bad

[LogicalDrm]

8 minutes ago, Aereldor said:

Did I post this in another sub by accident? My bad

General Discussion....

[SolarNova]

Correct. however i'd say 144hz is the cutoff for most people. beyond that the differences are minor, and as you go higher other things come into play, like frame pacing, and the ability for a game engine to even reach the frame rates required.

 

As has been mentioned, pixel response time is also important, a display running 144hz+ with transitions that go over the frame time allowed results in blur, ruining the entire point of having that higher refresh rate.

 

 

[Doobeedoo]

Definitely depends on many things. The quality of monitors, assuming they're best of their class. Type of game running stable at high framerates, type of esports game as in fast pace and users general experience in such games. 240Hz is what I can definitely say is noticeable for me. There's 360Hz which I haven't tried, only heard from some that did so. Also CRT vs LCD is completely another thing too.

[jones177]

With me it depends on the game.

I played Metro Exodus at 1440p 120hz because it felt better than 4k 60hz. 

With Horizon Zero Dawn I played it at 4k 60 since it did not feel better at 1440p 120hz.

 

CPU choice has a lot to do with how a game feels as well. All my games are migrating from my i7 8086k computer to my i9 10900k computer become they run smoother. They both use FTW3 Ultra 2080 tis so it is not the GPU.

 

I have a 1440p 144hz LG monitor with a G sync module. With my hardware and the games I like to play I was usually in the low 130s so my choice of using 4k 120hz TVs to play I think was a good one. 

 

 

[Aereldor]

6 hours ago, Doobeedoo said:

240Hz  360Hz 

Definitely super skeptical about these. Mathematically, there's only a 2.7 ms difference between frames between 144 and 240, and 1.4 between 360 and 240, it'd be very curious for those to be noticeable

[Doobeedoo]

4 hours ago, Aereldor said:

Definitely super skeptical about these. Mathematically, there's only a 2.7 ms difference between frames between 144 and 240, and 1.4 between 360 and 240, it'd be very curious for those to be noticeable

There's way more than those ms measurements people seem to cling on to as the only on paper measure. If you're not a fps player I can understand, but many definitely notice difference for sure.