Ryzen Memory OC Noob requesting OC Review/Advice

[Thavion Hawk]

I'm coming back to AMD after a good few years with Intel. The problem I have to deal with is that unlike OC'ing my old Phenom II 980 Black, FX8350 or i7-7700k there are a number of quarks related to Ryzen's architecture. I'm mostly setting aside CPU Overlocking. Apart from setting a +0.1v Offset on CPU and SOC and enabling AMD PBO there isn't much point putting time into the stop gap Ryzen 5 3600 I'm stuck with while I wait for my Ryzen 9 5900x(Ordered day of, still waiting)

Pre amble over, here are the parts I'm working with and the Timings I've got now after a bit of noob tuning aided some by DRAM Calculator.

 

Motherboard: ASUS TUF X570 Gaming Plus-Wifi

Memory: 2x16GB G-Skill Trident Z RGB 4,000Mhz CL19 (Samsung B Die)

CPU: Ryzen 5 3600

CPU Cooler: Corsair H100i v2 with ML120 fans

 

 

My clocks are in Red with DRAM Calculator's Safe settings in Black. I honestly do not know if the DRAM on my Trident Z are class A3/A2/B2 as selected in DRAM Calculator, but given the kit was rated for 4,000mhz at just 1.35v I took the simple step of Enabling DOCP then manually settings the DRAM to 3,600mhz, fclock to 1,800mhz and the primary timings first to 16, then 15. I've slowly been ticking down other timings but I haven't been able to get the primaries below 15,15,15,15. All of this with DRAM set to 1.35v.

 

Yeah that's about it. What do you all think of my progress so far?

 

 

[Guest]

These sticks, A1 PCB on the left and A2 PCB on the right. 

 

[Thavion Hawk]

On 11/28/2020 at 3:59 PM, ShrimpBrime said:

These sticks, A1 PCB on the left and A2 PCB on the right. 

 

So I  can ID the quality of the DRAM by the IC's on the base of the sticks? Well that's nice to know but not the point of my post. I really am asking if my Timings look good and what of them would be best to try and tighten if any? All of that with the understanding that when I get my 5900x I'm going to try to go faster do to the improved stability and higher Fclock.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Thavion Hawk said:

So I  can ID the quality of the DRAM by the IC's on the base of the sticks? Well that's nice to know but not the point of my post. I really am asking if my Timings look good and what of them would be best to try and tighten if any? All of that with the understanding that when I get my 5900x I'm going to try to go faster do to the improved stability and higher Fclock.

No.

 

You asked if you had A1 or A2 or A3 PCB.

The picture shows you how you can tell.

 

Once you have put A1 2 or 3 in the calculator, you'll have more accurate timings to your particular sticks of memory.

[Thavion Hawk]

21 hours ago, ShrimpBrime said:

No.

 

You asked if you had A1 or A2 or A3 PCB.

The picture shows you how you can tell.

 

Once you have put A1 2 or 3 in the calculator, you'll have more accurate timings to your particular sticks of memory.

No.

I stated "I honestly do not know if the DRAM on my Trident Z are class A3/A2/B2 as selected in DRAM Calculator."

I asked "What do you all think of my progress so far?"

By that I was hoping people that knew more about memory tuning could advice me on where I should focus on. If pushing more voltage could secure stable CL14 or if I should stick to CL15 and go after other timings?

 

 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Thavion Hawk said:

No.

I stated "I honestly do not know if the DRAM on my Trident Z are class A3/A2/B2 as selected in DRAM Calculator."

I asked "What do you all think of my progress so far?"

By that I was hoping people that knew more about memory tuning could advice me on where I should focus on. If pushing more voltage could secure stable CL14 or if I should stick to CL15 and go after other timings?

 

 

 

Ok.

It's not a class of A1 ect.

It's the PCB design. And greyed out, the timings may not differ from PCB revisions.

Basically the PCB revision is how the ICs are wired in on the printed circuit board...

 

Anyhow, the memory should scale with extra voltage.

 

1.40v should be no issue if you can get CL14 from it.

 

The only draw back you face is 16gb x2 sticks vs having 8gb sticks. Generally the smaller modules OC easier.

 

So far you're looking good.

Post screenies of your progress. I'll keep an eye out for anything you can change.

I do know that AMD likes a little looser Trc, so this could be helpful. It wont impact your latency much really.

 

 

[Thavion Hawk]

Thank you for the clarification on the PCB difference vs DRAM binning. I had assumed it was the latter that was in question but I am well aware of how differing trace layouts, PCB layer count among other details can impact performance and stability. I will put a bit more juice into it tonight and see how it goes.

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, Thavion Hawk said:

Thank you for the clarification on the PCB difference vs DRAM binning. I had assumed it was the latter that was in question but I am well aware of how differing trace layouts, PCB layer count among other details can impact performance and stability. I will put a bit more juice into it tonight and see how it goes.

It will be all trial and error when concerning timings. Change as little as possible when needed imo. The difference in performance at the same clocks would be within margin of error.

[Thavion Hawk]

On 12/3/2020 at 9:55 AM, ShrimpBrime said:

It will be all trial and error when concerning timings. Change as little as possible when needed imo. The difference in performance at the same clocks would be within margin of error.

I tried for 14,14,14,14 at 1.4v and it was unstable. Backing off to 15's at 1.375v is stable so I dropped other timings closer to the Fast recommendation and came up stable. Teaming those changes with a 4.2ghz + 4.3ghz per CCX OC is about as far as I'm going to get with this combo of CPU and RAM it seams. I can through up a picture of my resolute when I get home from work.

 

Really until I get the 5900x in the system I can be quite happy with these Trident Z RGB modules. They came listed with a D.O.C.P. of 4,000Mhz CL19 and I've got them down to 3,600Mhz CL15 without much trouble. For the money I paid that's not bad.

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Thavion Hawk said:

I tried for 14,14,14,14 at 1.4v and it was unstable. Backing off to 15's at 1.375v is stable so I dropped other timings closer to the Fast recommendation and came up stable. Teaming those changes with a 4.2ghz + 4.3ghz per CCX OC is about as far as I'm going to get with this combo of CPU and RAM it seams. I can through up a picture of my resolute when I get home from work.

 

Really until I get the 5900x in the system I can be quite happy with these Trident Z RGB modules. They came listed with a D.O.C.P. of 4,000Mhz CL19 and I've got them down to 3,600Mhz CL15 without much trouble. For the money I paid that's not bad.

Not bad not bad.

 

1.40v is not too high yet. You can safely go up to 1.5v with decent B-Die. 

 

Keep tweaking.

[Thavion Hawk]

More voltage and tighter timings keep coming up nil for me. I'm thinking the memory can farther but the Memory Controller on the CPU is at its limit. Come the 5900x I'll try pushing the clock speed up from 3,600Mhz while keeping the timings I've got now.

[Thavion Hawk]

My Ryzen 9 5900x just arrived today. I'll install it tonight after work and once that is done I'll restart from scratch with my Memory. I want to test what timings I can get with the kit running 4,000Mhz and 3,800Mhz. From what I've read and seen so far I may as well stick with the 3,200mhz CL15 I've got now as the unified CCX's are far less dependant on Infinity Fabric and Memory Latency.

[Thavion Hawk]

Update:

 

The BIOS reset to defaults and refused to load my saved OC Profile after installing my new CPU, but that's not much of a problem. I simply retune the memory to the same 15,15,15,15 I've been running. Until a stable build of the BIOS using AMD's new AGESA 1.1.9.0 comes out(ASUS dropped and pulled the Beta BIOS already) I'll try and push the clock up to 3,800Mhz. Until then I'm sticking with what I know works teamed with twice the cores running a 4.7Ghz all core OC.

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Thavion Hawk said:

Update:

 

The BIOS reset to defaults and refused to load my saved OC Profile after installing my new CPU, but that's not much of a problem. I simply retune the memory to the same 15,15,15,15 I've been running. Until a stable build of the BIOS using AMD's new AGESA 1.1.9.0 comes out(ASUS dropped and pulled the Beta BIOS already) I'll try and push the clock up to 3,800Mhz. Until then I'm sticking with what I know works teamed with twice the cores running a 4.7Ghz all core OC.

Good deal on the upgrade! Sounds like you got it going just fine.

 

 

[Thavion Hawk]

On 1/6/2021 at 9:45 AM, ShrimpBrime said:

Good deal on the upgrade! Sounds like you got it going just fine.

 

 

So I knew the changes to the CPU Dies with Zen 3 was going to effect the stability with higher speed memory and fclock, but I didn't expect it to be this much. I planned to wait for a finished BIOS with the new AGESA code supporting 2,000Mhz fclock, but jumped the gun a wee bit.

Same timings, up voltage from 1.375v to 1.4v and up fclock/dram to 1,900Mhz/3,800Mhz. Result perfectly stable. A few testes in Dram Calculator later I think what about timings? Faster is good but tighter? Well up the voltage to 1.425v, keep the faster clocks and tighten to 15,15,15,15(Dram Calculator shows it at 16,15,15,15?) Same result. Perfectly stable running even when paired with my 4.8Ghz All Core OC. 

 

Now I may try and push this a bit more when ASUS finalizes a BIOS with the new AGESA code to support 2,000Mhz fclock, but even still I just pushed this 4,000Mhz CL19 kit to 3,800Mhz CL15. Did I get something of a Gold Sample with either this kit of RAM or this CPU? Or is this just an indicator of what AMD's managed to do to improve generation over generation. Remember I was using this same Mobo and RAM with a R5 3600 until now and I couldn't get it stable at 3,600Mhz CL15 even at 1.425v...

 

 

 

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, Thavion Hawk said:

So I knew the changes to the CPU Dies with Zen 3 was going to effect the stability with higher speed memory and fclock, but I didn't expect it to be this much. I planned to wait for a finished BIOS with the new AGESA code supporting 2,000Mhz fclock, but jumped the gun a wee bit.

Same timings, up voltage from 1.375v to 1.4v and up fclock/dram to 1,900Mhz/3,800Mhz. Result perfectly stable. A few testes in Dram Calculator later I think what about timings? Faster is good but tighter? Well up the voltage to 1.425v, keep the faster clocks and tighten to 15,15,15,15(Dram Calculator shows it at 16,15,15,15?) Same result. Perfectly stable running even when paired with my 4.8Ghz All Core OC. 

 

Now I may try and push this a bit more when ASUS finalizes a BIOS with the new AGESA code to support 2,000Mhz fclock, but even still I just pushed this 4,000Mhz CL19 kit to 3,800Mhz CL15. Did I get something of a Gold Sample with either this kit of RAM or this CPU? Or is this just an indicator of what AMD's managed to do to improve generation over generation. Remember I was using this same Mobo and RAM with a R5 3600 until now and I couldn't get it stable at 3,600Mhz CL15 even at 1.425v...

 

 

 

 

The memory controller is doing pretty good. 

Calculator is full of round-a-bouts. 1.4v on this kit is nothing. 1.5v is nothing. You got room to play.

Where is the voltage at CPU/SOC?

[Thavion Hawk]

13 hours ago, ShrimpBrime said:

The memory controller is doing pretty good. 

Calculator is full of round-a-bouts. 1.4v on this kit is nothing. 1.5v is nothing. You got room to play.

Where is the voltage at CPU/SOC?

I'll have to double check when i get home but I have both CPU and SOC set with + offsets not set voltages. I avoid set voltages even if just for testing OC's.

[Thavion Hawk]

+.3v CPU

+.25v SOC

1.4v DRAM

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Thavion Hawk said:

I'll have to double check when i get home but I have both CPU and SOC set with + offsets not set voltages. I avoid set voltages even if just for testing OC's.

 

That's a good and bad thing at the same time. Certain voltages, like CPU/SOC you want to manually set. 

 

1 hour ago, Thavion Hawk said:

+.3v CPU

+.25v SOC

1.4v DRAM

I meant what's the active running CPU/SOC voltage. +0.25v on top of what? Try HWInfo64 for the readings. 

 

[Thavion Hawk]

On 1/12/2021 at 7:17 PM, ShrimpBrime said:

 

That's a good and bad thing at the same time. Certain voltages, like CPU/SOC you want to manually set. 

 

I meant what's the active running CPU/SOC voltage. +0.25v on top of what? Try HWInfo64 for the readings. 

 

I feel stupide on that. Offsets are nice to know but need a known base value. In any case here's a screen cap of HWinfo64 with a V-Ray benchmark running to load the CPU.

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Thavion Hawk said:

I feel stupide on that. Offsets are nice to know but need a known base value. In any case here's a screen cap of HWMonitor with a V-Ray benchmark running to load the CPU.

 

Better to use HWInfo64. It will explain with much greater detail what voltages we are looking at. 

[Thavion Hawk]

Just now, ShrimpBrime said:

Better to use HWInfo64. It will explain with much greater detail what voltages we are looking at. 

I just updated the post using HWInfo64 right before you responded.

[Guest]

Just now, Thavion Hawk said:

I just updated the post using HWInfo64 right before you responded.

Ah yes with the ninja edit! lol. Nice one!!

 

Set manually the Cpu SOC to 1.08v. You shouldn't need a lick more honestly. This may help drop cpu temps a touch.

[Thavion Hawk]

Just now, ShrimpBrime said:

Ah yes with the ninja edit! lol. Nice one!!

 

Set manually the Cpu SOC to 1.08v. You shouldn't need a lick more honestly. This may help drop cpu temps a touch.

I'll give it a shot. Temps are not a problem honestly I've only pushed it as high as 81c looping Cinebench r20. Not going to turn down the advice though.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Thavion Hawk said:

I'll give it a shot. Temps are not a problem honestly I've only pushed it as high as 81c looping Cinebench r20. Not going to turn down the advice though.

If it becomes unstable, then add a little more maybe 1.1250v. You're not running tight enough timings to be over 1.2v at all. If you where aiming CL14 to CL12, then maybe yeah, I could see the use for it. 

 

Temps are good. High temp alert, the cpu at stock values is 70c. Your Cpu fan would be at 100% rpm. In bios you will only have a 5 degree increase on that temp threshold. So you can raise the Fan 100% spin up to 75c and that's all. That only gives you 15c headroom before throttle on a transistor rich processor. 

 

From any kind of experience with Zen chips, be first release to now, the cooler they run, the less voltage they leak. The less voltage they leak, the less voltage needed to run the chip. And then naturally will boost higher even with PBO on auto. I first experienced this with a R3 1200. On my Geothermal loop, it pinned all cores to it's XFR boost clocks lol. Not that it's some great accomplishment with PBO off, but could not replicate this with the stock cooler. 

 

So the idea is to use the minimum amount of voltage to produce the least amount of heat and go for efficiency. 50mhz is not a big loss if you can shave 10c off.

 

The one issue I did find through any kind of fun testing, sub ambient to sub zero, is that any kind of ambient cooling doesn't keep most of these chips below 60c where you'd want to take advantage of PBO or CPB or on Asus ROG Performance Enhancer levels. 

 

81c with Cinebench isn't bad. 9c headroom before throttle point. This temp will be higher with Prime95 AVX no doubt. You can quick runs with Intel Burn Test as well. That one produced some good heat too.