Do I need to go Watercooling? R9 3900x

[Sarra]

Relevant specs:

 

Case is a Fractal Design Meshify C Mini

CPU is a R9 3900x (going to be replaced with a 5900x in a few weeks)

GPU is an EVGA GTX 980 (going to be replaced with a 6800XT... eventually. I hope.)

Case fans are the two included with the case

Current CPU cooler is a Noctua NH D15S

 

I've dropped my voltages on the CPU down, so I'm idling between 36c and 40c. When gaming, I'm seeing temps under 70c. When rendering, temps go up to 85c, which I personally am not a fan of.

 

I have both case fans in the stock configuration, one up front as intake, and one in the rear as exhaust, with the 140mm CPU cooler blowing directly back.

 

So, here's my question. Should I get some Noctua case fans, optimized for airflow, and see if I can boost the performance of the CPU cooler, or should I go for water cooling?

 

Other background: I do have rendering projects long enough that this CPU should remain loaded for the better part of an entire hour, if not longer.

 

And finally, since it probably will get asked: The GPU temps are absolutely fine. The GPU stays under 65c, even under full load.

 

And a second finally, I'm going to run a power virus load to see if having the side panel off effects temps, to see if I need to improve airflow, or if the D15S is just not quite up to the task of cooling this beast.

[Letgomyleghoe]

7 minutes ago, Sarra said:

I've dropped my voltages on the CPU down, so I'm idling between 36c and 40c. When gaming, I'm seeing temps under 70c. When rendering, temps go up to 85c, which I personally am not a fan of.

are you sure its mounted corrrectly and thermal paste is properly applied? 

 

the nhd15 is more than a capable cooler

[Bombastinator]

A dh15s  should be overkill for a 3900x.  Jury still out afaik on 5900x, but my suspicion is it will be for that too.  If there’s a heat problem something is wrong. A few fans would be cheaper than a watercooler.  Noctua is peak fan, and you pay for the privilege.  If you’re just doing vertical mount case fans and sound isn’t a super critical issue there are much much cheaper fans.  My first move would be probably to check my cpu mount, maybe throw in some good paste while I’m at it, and maybe toss in a cheap fan or two to see if that fixes issues.  Maybe a $20-$30 investment. 

[Sarra]

8 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

A dh15s  should be overkill for a 3900x.  Jury still out afaik on 5900x, but my suspicion is it will be for that too.  If there’s a heat problem something is wrong. A few fans would be cheaper than a watercooler.  Noctua is peak fan, and you pay for the privilege.  If you’re just doing vertical mount case fans and sound isn’t a super critical issue there are much much cheaper fans.  My first move would be probably to check my cpu mount, maybe throw in some good paste while I’m at it, and maybe toss in a cheap fan or two to see if that fixes issues.  Maybe a $20-$30 investment. 

I've got a D15S on my old Xeon, as well. I used the paste that was included with the cooler, but I also have AS 5 and Ceramique. I'm not really wanting to do Liquid Metal...

 

Power Virus didn't do much, CPU detected what it was and throttled down lol I ran the blender benchmark a few times, and I couldn't get past 82c, but I'm not sure I want to trust this for longer rendering projects yet. I guess I could toss up a shorter project and see how the thermals do after a few hours... I did move the second case fan to the front of the case as a second intake. Temps were pretty much the same with the side panel removed. If this doesn't fix it, I can pop the CPU cooler off. Maybe I should anyway, I need to take it off to get the last screw that holds the mobo in...

 

The D15S install was super easy on AMD, compared to the Intel system I put my other one in.

[NickPickerWI]

An NH-D15 outperforms many 240mm AIO coolers. Something is wrong.

 

I would take the cooler off, make sure you took the sticker off the bottom of it. Look at the way the thermal paste spread - if it isn't covering the whole CPU, not enough was put on. Clean off the thermal paste from the cooler and the CPU using a coffee filter and isopropyl alcohol. Let it dry, add a pea-sized blob of new thermal paste to the CPU, and reinstall the cooler. Make sure you tighten the screws holding the cooler down in a cross pattern, and tighten them until the screws won't turn - they are designed to be completely seated. Make sure the fan on the cooler is installed so it will blow in the right direction (usually towards the back of the case) - the sticker and the fan's housing with the cross-bracing should be facing the back of the case, the face of the fan with no bracing and completely exposed fan blades should face towards the front.

 

Turn the PC on, and make sure the fan on the cooler spins. Go into BIOS, and set the CPU fan curve to 100% all the time. Set your case fans to 100% all the time. Enter Windows, and see how your temperatures are.

 

If this doesn't work, double-check with different reporting software to make sure the software you're using isn't bugged.

 

If that doesn't work, get some cheap case fans to fill out the case, and set those to 100% as well in the BIOS.

 

If that doesn't work...something might be wrong with that chip.

[Sarra]

2 minutes ago, NickPickerWI said:

An NH-D15 outperforms many 240mm AIO coolers. Something is wrong.

 

I would take the cooler off, make sure you took the sticker off the bottom of it. Look at the way the thermal paste spread - if it isn't covering the whole CPU, not enough was put on. Clean off the thermal paste from the cooler and the CPU using a coffee filter and isopropyl alcohol. Let it dry, add a pea-sized blob of new thermal paste to the CPU, and reinstall the cooler. Make sure you tighten the screws holding the cooler down in a cross pattern, and tighten them until the screws won't turn - they are designed to be completely seated. Make sure the fan on the cooler is installed so it will blow in the right direction (usually towards the back of the case) - the sticker and the fan's housing with the cross-bracing should be facing the back of the case, the face of the fan with no bracing and completely exposed fan blades should face towards the front.

 

Turn the PC on, and make sure the fan on the cooler spins. Go into BIOS, and set the CPU fan curve to 100% all the time. Set your case fans to 100% all the time. Enter Windows, and see how your temperatures are.

 

If this doesn't work, double-check with different reporting software to make sure the software you're using isn't bugged.

 

If that doesn't work, get some cheap case fans to fill out the case, and set those to 100% as well in the BIOS.

 

If that doesn't work...something might be wrong with that chip.

D15 has a plastic trey to protect the cold plate during shipping, and I made sure to remove it. I also made sure to clean the cold plate and the IHS on the CPU with 99% alcohol before doing the build.

 

I'll try some AS 5 instead of the stock paste.

 

Gonna go ahead and pull this apart, I should get that silly screw installed while I got it apart anyway.

[Letgomyleghoe]

12 minutes ago, Sarra said:

D15 has a plastic trey to protect the cold plate during shipping, and I made sure to remove it. I also made sure to clean the cold plate and the IHS on the CPU with 99% alcohol before doing the build.

 

I'll try some AS 5 instead of the stock paste.

 

Gonna go ahead and pull this apart, I should get that silly screw installed while I got it apart anyway.

youve tightened the cpu cooler all the way down right?

[Bombastinator]

45 minutes ago, Sarra said:

I've got a D15S on my old Xeon, as well. I used the paste that was included with the cooler, but I also have AS 5 and Ceramique. I'm not really wanting to do Liquid Metal...

 

Power Virus didn't do much, CPU detected what it was and throttled down lol I ran the blender benchmark a few times, and I couldn't get past 82c, but I'm not sure I want to trust this for longer rendering projects yet. I guess I could toss up a shorter project and see how the thermals do after a few hours... I did move the second case fan to the front of the case as a second intake. Temps were pretty much the same with the side panel removed. If this doesn't fix it, I can pop the CPU cooler off. Maybe I should anyway, I need to take it off to get the last screw that holds the mobo in...

 

The D15S install was super easy on AMD, compared to the Intel system I put my other one in.

If you’ve got good paste already investment price goes down.  I’ve heard there are decent fans around for $6/ a piece. Not the best, and no blinky lights, but will do for testing.  My suspicion is there is an airflow problem or the paste job is messed up for some reason.  It happens to everyone. A rogue eyelash hair can screw everything up for example.  Cooling in general is just not too easy to predict. It’s fluid dynamics which automatically makes it wacky.  The only thing I can say is as long as there isn’t a ding on the cold plate or the IHS and they’re reasonably flat, that is more than enough cooler.  Any issue is elsewhere.

[SavageNeo]

go ahead and buy 2x/3x Artic p12¨s on the front for more intake. one fan is well not so good for such cpu. 

[Sarra]

I put new thermal paste on. I'll let it set, and see how it's doing tomorrow. I'm still running hot here, but I just noticed that my CPU's pulling 1.5v again, I guess I gotta run back into the BIOS and redo my voltages again.

[narrdarr]

I have a list of questions

What motherboard do you have?

Is the bios up to date?

Is pbo enabled?

Are you using ryzen master?

Are you using any other monitoring software? If yes which one(s)?

 

The nh paste that came with the cool is better than as5. As5 is fine but it has an around 200 hour cure time. ( It one of the few paste than even has a cure time. Because of this less is indeed more, but you do want full coverage.)

 

Cpu Voltage

Ive seen some pretty high voltages on ryzen but it always on idle. Then it drops to somewhere between 1.2 -1.3ish under load. Can you check if this happening.

 

I'm assuming you happy with your mount now?

 

 

[Sarra]

Just now, narrdarr said:

I have a list of questions

What motherboard do you have?

Is the bios up to date?

Is pbo enabled?

Are you using ryzen master?

Are you using any other monitoring software? If yes which one(s)?

 

The nh paste that came with the cool is better than as5. As5 is fine but it has an around 200 hour cure time. ( It one of the few paste than even has a cure time. Because of this less is indeed more, but you do want full coverage.)

 

Cpu Voltage

Ive seen some pretty high voltages on ryzen but it always on idle. Then it drops to somewhere between 1.2 -1.3ish under load. Can you check if this happening.

 

I'm assuming you happy with your mount now?

 

 

I've got an ASrock X570M Pro4 board.

Bios is version 3, which supports the Zen 3 series, but there's two revisions after that. I've got a USB thumbdrive in the mail, so I can update it.

I'm not entirely sure if PBO is enabled. I don't recall seeing a setting for it, but I have three cores/six threads that are boosting to 4.75 ghz... And now that I'm looking at it, it's disabled, it's sitting locked at 3.8. o.o This BIOS isn't fun to work with.

I am not using Ryzen Master

I'm using MSI Afterburner, HW Monitor, and the ASrock tuning thing to check temps.

 

I was seeing 1.49v under load, as reported by CPUz during a benchmark test. I tried to manually set it back down to 1.2v, but apparently disabled PBO at the same time...

 

Idle temps were bouncing around between 45c and 64c before, and now it's closer to 40c.

[narrdarr]

35 minutes ago, Sarra said:

I've got an ASrock X570M Pro4 board.

Bios is version 3, which supports the Zen 3 series, but there's two revisions after that. I've got a USB thumbdrive in the mail, so I can update it.

I'm not entirely sure if PBO is enabled. I don't recall seeing a setting for it, but I have three cores/six threads that are boosting to 4.75 ghz... And now that I'm looking at it, it's disabled, it's sitting locked at 3.8. o.o This BIOS isn't fun to work with.

I am not using Ryzen Master

I'm using MSI Afterburner, HW Monitor, and the ASrock tuning thing to check temps.

 

I was seeing 1.49v under load, as reported by CPUz during a benchmark test. I tried to manually set it back down to 1.2v, but apparently disabled PBO at the same time...

 

Idle temps were bouncing around between 45c and 64c before, and now it's closer to 40c.

A few things here.

You should be able to update bios without a usb drive with asrock live update/app store.

 

Second don't use cpuz for benching ryzen chips. The sensors are known for being high on voltage.

Hardware monitor doesn't do a good job either.

And the asrock tuning thing not needed.

Compounded issue ryzen voltage usually show high when there are multiple monitoring services running.

 

 

What you want to check and stress are properly is:

Hardware info

(When you start this app just select sensors only) you'll be able to monitor everything accurately from one spot

Cinnabench r20

As it uses avx and will push the cpu. You want to run this in a loop or at least back to back a few time.

 

 

My suggestion

Step 1

Uninstall all that stuff

Install recommended

In bios load optimized defaults.

Re-enter bios set xmp (if you want) maybe reset fan curves too if you care.

Open hardware info with sensors only

Run r20

Check cpu t die temps and voltage during the r20 runs

 

If thing are still wack do the bios update via software and repeat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sarra]

lol I just spent 5 minutes waiting for my BIOS to flash, but I forgot to hit the button... Now I have a loading bar. XD

 

I used HWiNFO and it was showing the exact same temps as MSI Afterburner. Temps have dropped slightly, I'm only pushing 77c now. I'm going to order fans, and I'm probably going to have to go watercooling for the GPU when I upgrade it. The GPU in my old system would top out at 70c with an OC pushing it to an increased power limit, but I'm easily hitting 75c with it stock in this case. I don't have any fresh air to it, and I'm not sure I want to OC it with it already running this hot. From what I've read, the D15S should keep this CPU under 70c at stock, so something is certainly amiss.

 

Is there supposed to be a slight gap along the edge of the IHS on the CPU? Or was the IHS mounted improperly? I goggled it and see it's soldered, so this would be an RMA defect if so...

[Bombastinator]

6 minutes ago, Sarra said:

lol I just spent 5 minutes waiting for my BIOS to flash, but I forgot to hit the button... Now I have a loading bar. XD

 

I used HWiNFO and it was showing the exact same temps as MSI Afterburner. Temps have dropped slightly, I'm only pushing 77c now. I'm going to order fans, and I'm probably going to have to go watercooling for the GPU when I upgrade it. The GPU in my old system would top out at 70c with an OC pushing it to an increased power limit, but I'm easily hitting 75c with it stock in this case. I don't have any fresh air to it, and I'm not sure I want to OC it with it already running this hot. From what I've read, the D15S should keep this CPU under 70c at stock, so something is certainly amiss.

 

Is there supposed to be a slight gap along the edge of the IHS on the CPU? Or was the IHS mounted improperly? I goggled it and see it's soldered, so this would be an RMA defect if so...

A $6 fan is cheaper than a $100 watercooler, which comes with a fan (or 2) on it anyway.

[narrdarr]

7 minutes ago, Sarra said:

lol I just spent 5 minutes waiting for my BIOS to flash, but I forgot to hit the button... Now I have a loading bar. XD

 

I used HWiNFO and it was showing the exact same temps as MSI Afterburner. Temps have dropped slightly, I'm only pushing 77c now. I'm going to order fans, and I'm probably going to have to go watercooling for the GPU when I upgrade it. The GPU in my old system would top out at 70c with an OC pushing it to an increased power limit, but I'm easily hitting 75c with it stock in this case. I don't have any fresh air to it, and I'm not sure I want to OC it with it already running this hot. From what I've read, the D15S should keep this CPU under 70c at stock, so something is certainly amiss.

 

Is there supposed to be a slight gap along the edge of the IHS on the CPU? Or was the IHS mounted improperly? I goggled it and see it's soldered, so this would be an RMA defect if so...

can we focus on thing at a time. like just the cpu. then we will handle the gpu.

 

please post again cpu specific info

[Sarra]

Just now, narrdarr said:

can we focus on thing at a time. like just the cpu. then we will handle the gpu.

 

please post again cpu specific info

Yes. I was killing time while the BIOS updated.

 

HWiNFO showed 75c during Cinebench R20. CPU VID was 1.39v solid through the test... I just updated the BIOS, and only touched fan curves and XMP for the memory. Reading temps from HWiNFO using Sensors only... Do I need to go into BIOS and manually set the voltage?

 

The new version of the BIOS lets me set the case fans to act in concert with the CPU temp, so I can get my fans to all ramp up at the same time, and this brought my temps down a little bit.

[Sarra]

11 hours ago, SavageNeo said:

go ahead and buy 2x/3x Artic p12¨s on the front for more intake. one fan is well not so good for such cpu. 

MKay, the P12 is pressure optimized. Wouldn't I want airflow optimized? Or does it not actually matter in this case?

 

I'd almost rather spend the money and get Noctua fans instead. o.x

[narrdarr]

25 minutes ago, Sarra said:

Yes. I was killing time while the BIOS updated.

 

HWiNFO showed 75c during Cinebench R20. CPU VID was 1.39v solid through the test... I just updated the BIOS, and only touched fan curves and XMP for the memory. Reading temps from HWiNFO using Sensors only... Do I need to go into BIOS and manually set the voltage?

 

The new version of the BIOS lets me set the case fans to act in concert with the CPU temp, so I can get my fans to all ramp up at the same time, and this brought my temps down a little bit.

Temps look good. 75c under load is average for most people. 

 

Voltage

If you can get below 1.3v that would be great. Not only is it a better operating voltage for longevity of the cpu, but may drop temps more.

     Take baby steps bringing down and watch to make sure clock speeds don't get lower. Your goal is to maintain your current clocks just with lower voltage. If you can't get the voltage lower without lower clock speeds then don't worry about.

 

 

[narrdarr]

56 minutes ago, Sarra said:

MKay, the P12 is pressure optimized. Wouldn't I want airflow optimized? Or does it not actually matter in this case?

 

I'd almost rather spend the money and get Noctua fans instead. o.x

Static pressure fans are better

 

The artic p12 go head to head with nh fans just they are cheaper

[Sarra]

Just now, narrdarr said:

Static pressure fans are better

 

The artic p12 go head to head with nh fans just they are cheaper

Gotcha. I like the NH fans just since they are premium, but I'm not counting out the Arctic either.

 

I'll jump in BIOS and see if I can drop that CPU voltage slightly. Thanks for the help and input.

[Letgomyleghoe]

21 minutes ago, Sarra said:

I like the NH fans just since they are premium, but I'm not counting out the Arctic either.

 

Artic P12 and p14s are literally the same level of performance as the nf-a12 and nf-a14

 

just cheaper

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, narrdarr said:

Static pressure fans are better

 

The artic p12 go head to head with nh fans just they are cheaper

Re static fans:

situational.  A high static pressure fan will produce more noise per cfm than a non static pressure one.  Static pressure is how hard it blows not how much it blows. CFM is how much it blows not how hard it blows.   More static pressure with same cfm is a straight win in everything but noise generally though. 

[Sarra]

2 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Re static fans:

situational.  A high static pressure fan will produce more noise per cfm than a non static pressure one.  Static pressure is how hard it blows not how much it blows. CFM is how much it blows not how hard it blows.   More static pressure with same cfm is a straight win in everything but noise generally though. 

Well, I thought Noctua had a static pressure optimized fan in 140mm, but they don't. I don't think Arctic does, either. I think I'm going to grab 4 140mm Arctic fans; 2 for the 3900x system, and 2 to replace the ageing fans in my old Haswell based Xeon's case. I'm mostly interested in performance; silence is a bonus, but as long as it isn't a Delta BlowyMcTron, I'm good.

[Sarra]

3 hours ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

Artic P12 and p14s are literally the same level of performance as the nf-a12 and nf-a14

 

just cheaper

Oh, I didn't see this until after the last post.

 

Yes, thanks. I think I'm going to grab P14's. I don't give a poop about RGB, I'm too old for that. o.x The only exception would be if I could set the color to match the temperature curve of my CPU, or maybe GPU.