Industrial espionage

[Tostr4]

Am I the only one wondering why there is so much resemblance between the 3 GPU's from Nvidia and the 3 GPU's from AMD? They all 3 roughly match each other in performance, while structurally beeing entirely different.  And the one month difference in launch date can't simply be enough time for AMD to alter their specs to match those of Team Green.
My only logic conclusion is that both companies have been watching each other very closely, trough espionage I hope. Because if they didn't, that would mean that they just 'worked together a little' to sell us electronic devises that cost roughly 25€ to produce, but sell at 500 - 1500 €.

[dizmo]

They're not that similar. The high end AMD one also had everything OC'd to match the 3090.

[Morrie Sells Wigs]

Isn't that like asking why a t.v from Samsung looks suspiciously like a t.v from Sony?

 

I mean, they all look remarkably similar and have pretty much the same technology in them.

 

It may simply be that, building on from their previous iterations, it was the most natural and organic way to proceed. 

 

Or, they could have a spy in their midst.

 

Both are possible. 

 

[RAS_3885]

11 minutes ago, Tostr4 said:

Am I the only one wondering why there is so much resemblance between the 3 GPU's from Nvidia and the 3 GPU's from AMD? They all 3 roughly match each other in performance, while structurally beeing entirely different.  And the one month difference in launch date can't simply be enough time for AMD to alter their specs to match those of Team Green.
My only logic conclusion is that both companies have been watching each other very closely, trough espionage I hope. Because if they didn't, that would mean that they just 'worked together a little' to sell us electronic devises that cost roughly 25€ to produce, but sell at 500 - 1500 €.

All the AIB cards look basically the same too. It's almost like there's only so many ways to make a successful card design. The fact that they trend towards a similar-ish design is no surprise since they learn from what works and what doesn't. Even without espionage they all do market and competitor research.

 

No conspiracy. Well, probably not conspiracy. Maybe. I'll keep the tin foil close-by in case my head gets cold.

[Briggsy]

As the old philosophical question goes: Why is a soap bubble round?

 

With the exception of the past few years, AMD and Nvidia were always in lock-step with each other for performance. At the end of the day both companies are working towards the same goal, to move electrons from point A to point B, and unless one of them finds a way to circumvent classical and/or quantum physics, then they're both equally limited by the same factors. Most of the components being used on graphic cards are the same. The memory chips, the power delivery, the silicon, the fabrication processes etc are the same or similar. Both companies are limited by the same factors in hardware, so in theory they should always be progressing at the same pace every year or two. Their engineers might know each other and went to school together and learned the same methods and concepts. Over the last few years Radeon went on vacation while AMD focused resources on the CPU end, so people new to computer hardware might be surprised that AMD are in lock-step with Nvidia, but its not surprising.

 

One big advantage Nvidia have over AMD is with intangible features like physX, NVENC, RTX voice, etc. The vast majority of graphic card buyers don't need or even know a lot of these value added features exist with AMD or Nvidia. Nvidia market their features better and push them out into the industry more aggressively, as well as being more proprietary in their implementation, and these intangible features help tick boxes for marketing when it comes time to differ themselves from the competition. If you can see past all the marketing BS, its just another android vs. apple, xbox vs playstation kind of debate where the software and branding sell the hardware.

[BTGbullseye]

15 hours ago, dizmo said:

They're not that similar. The high end AMD one also had everything OC'd to match the 3090.

Technically speaking, that was only a power limit increase, not an overclock. Also, the entire 3000 series is already at its maximum clock speed at stock, so really doesn't have headroom for performance increase. (the 6800XT was also matching the 3080 without any overclocking or performance boosting settings)

[Mark Kaine]

Isn't the bosses of both companies really close relatives or something? That's not suspicious at all... 

 

Also Nvidia needs AMD, without AMD they're facing a 100% monopoly on dedicated consumer GPUs, and they sure as hell want to avoid the regulations and scrutiny that come with that.

 

Quote

Although NVIDIA and AMD are fierce competitors, interestingly NVIDIA's CEO Jen-Hsun Huang is the uncle of AMD's CEO Lisa Su. Although this information has been posted recently in the Wikipedia, it wasn't well-known outside of Taiwan.

 

 

Thank you I don't need a tinfoil hat, it's completely clear what's going on between these 2 companies...

[Loki0111]

Aside from the fact they are PCIe cards of somewhat similar dimensions with heat sinks and fans on them they don't actually share that much in common.

 

The architecture is totally different, RAM and the nodes pumping them out are different, AMD is using a large on IC cache, Nvidia is not.

 

That is sort of like saying a Tesla Roadster and a Porche 911 are the same vehicle because they have 4 tires and a body of approximately the same dimensions.

 

The companies definitely closely watch each other and I suspect have very good estimates of each others upcoming tech. The situation is similar with Intel and AMD. The major difference is Intel has repeatedly shot itself in the face with delays and technological missteps. They are now stuck on a 2016 derived arch and 14nm node as a result. I have been frankly amazed at how long they've actually been able to hang on by the skin of their teeth for each new gen.

[Mark Kaine]

7 minutes ago, Loki0111 said:

That is sort of like saying a Tesla Roadster and a Porche 911 are the same vehicle because they have 4 tires and a body of approximately the same dimensions

 

[ewitte]

6800/3070 was easy because everyone was targeting the 2080ti

 

The rest they went off average predicable performance increases gen for gen.  AMD probably missed the target a bit and bumped from 250W to 300W.  They had an advantage launching later. 

[Mark Kaine]

This is also like saying Xbox copies Playstation or vice versa... They all use the same tech and the same Chinese suppliers so of course their products will be similar. 

[Mark Kaine]

15 hours ago, Tostr4 said:

trough espionage

In this specific scenario it's called "lunch".

[Blademaster91]

12 minutes ago, ewitte said:

6800/3070 was easy because everyone was targeting the 2080ti

 

The rest they went off average predicable performance increases gen for gen.  AMD probably missed the target a bit and bumped from 250W to 300W.  They had an advantage launching later. 

Even if AMD did miss a TDP target i'm just glad they're competing with a high end card.

Nvidia are having issues with their 3000 series cards, a 320w TDP at stock is quite high compared to the last gen 2080Ti at 250w, and it seems like Nvidia pushed the clocks as there isn't any OC room unless you buy a premium tier AIB card.

[dizmo]

9 hours ago, BTGbullseye said:

Technically speaking, that was only a power limit increase, not an overclock. Also, the entire 3000 series is already at its maximum clock speed at stock, so really doesn't have headroom for performance increase. (the 6800XT was also matching the 3080 without any overclocking or performance boosting settings)

It also used their cpu boosting system as well.

[BTGbullseye]

5 hours ago, dizmo said:

It also used their cpu boosting system as well.

The S.A.M. yes. That is not an overclock though. (as was the assertion that I was rebutting)

[dizmo]

8 minutes ago, BTGbullseye said:

The S.A.M. yes. That is not an overclock though. (as was the assertion that I was rebutting)

Kind of arguing semantics there, it's a performance adder. It's just odd that the top tier card is the only one they decided to test like that.

[BTGbullseye]

7 hours ago, dizmo said:

Kind of arguing semantics there, it's a performance adder. It's just odd that the top tier card is the only one they decided to test like that.

Just like Nvidia, the top end isn't worth the $350 increase, but it's much closer to worth it than the 3090 is to worth the $800 increase. (even when stock) Besides, they were running it like any somewhat sane person would who is looking for maximum possible performance. (who wouldn't turn on free performance improvements if they were available?)