Move on from Define R6 for better acoustic performance?

[Zephir]

Hi

 

I am running a custom loop in a Define R6:

 

 

It has the following specs:

Fractal Design Define R6 Blackout - Tempered Glass USB-C 

Corsair HX1000i power supply

Cablemod Pro Modmesh C-series kit

ASUS PRIME Z270-A motherboard

Intel i7 7700K (4.2-4.5gHz) - @4.8gHz

G.Skill DDR4 Neo 16GB (2x8GB) 3600Mhz C16 - (f4-3600c16d-16gtznc)

Samsung 960EVO 500GB NVME - Win 10

Samsung 860 EVO 1TB - data

IOGEAR Bluetooth 4.0 adapter

MSI GTX1080Ti GamingX x2 + 2x EK-FC1080 GTX Ti TF6 Waterblocks

EK D5 PWM + 250mm EK-RES X3 RGB

Aqua-Computer Aquaero 6LT 

Aqua-Computer High Flow sensor USB

HWlabs Black Ice Nemesis GTS360 radiator x2

EK Supremacy EVO cpu waterblock

EK chrome fittings, PETG

3x 120mm NF-F12 Industrial PPC-2000 PWM

3x 120mm NF-F12 PWM Chromax

1x 140mm NF-A14PWM Chromax

I'm waiting out Zen 3 to build a new system, which I will likely watercool again. I'm thinking of a single RTX3080 or RTX3090, either a ASUS Crosshair Hero or Aorus Master X570 board and then a 4xxx cpu. A 4900x could be a candidate, but a 4700x as well. I use the machine with a 21:9 1440p 144hz monitor, for office work, the occasional Davinci Resolve and Adobe Lightroom and a bit of gaming in the evening as well. I have a 16" macbook as well for most work activities..

 

While the current machine is no slouch, it is not as quiet as I would have hoped. Performance wise the 7700K is holding me back in newer titles and SLI is, well, dead...

I keep the Delta T around 10 degrees with the Aquaero and even in games that don't use SLI (Like AC:Odyssey) the fans ramp up fairly high to maintain that Delta T. Also the pump has to run near max rpm to achieve a flow of 180L/h. The pump also induces some kind of rattle on certain rpm's, that I think is caused by substandard mechanical de-coupling the pump / res from the chassis. The front of the R6 has a crack in the bottom frame (I believe from ripping it off it's studs often to access for maintenance, this is likely contributing as well, but it's difficult to pinpoint exactly what the cause is.

 

So, for an update I would re-use my cooling gear where possible. I love the Noctua fans, HWlabs radiators and the Aquaero. I heard the pump/res combo from EK is not the best for noise reduction and have been advised to consider a Heatkiller reservoir for a much better mechanical de-coupling. I also have a HWlabs SR2 360x60mm lying around from a previous build.

 

So, I would like less fan noise, less rattling and if possible also less pump noise.

 

The heat load should go down, from 500+W on the twin 1080Ti's to 350-ish on a GA102 based GPU. A new CPU with more cores might add a bit more heat, but it should not be more than what I run now. I also consider undervolting components whenever possible. 

 

The flow should go up ideally. Slim GTS rads reduce the flow a lot, but in a new situation with a single GPU, I would have one GPU block less. I have been considering switching the R6 out for a O11-Dynamic XL and putting the 2 slim rads in the top and rear, and the SR2 in the bottom with a new set of Noctua's NF-F12 PWM Chromax. An SR2 has very low flow resistance... The SR2 does not fit in the R6, only 2 GTS's fit together. The construction to hide the flow meter under the reservoir and add a drain required a few extra 90 degree angles and T-pieces... Maybe I could try and simplify that as well to allow the flow to increase so I can lower the pump RPM a bit...

 

Is there anyone here who can give me advice on a strategy to have an understated looking PC (the thing has RGB, but it's turned off most of the time, it intentionally looks "generic business" apart from the TG panel), that has excellent cooling for a 3080/3090 + 8-12 core cpu and does so with the least noise possible, I would be grateful... Keeping cooling hardware is nice, but not essential...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[For Science!]

It's funny that you have the exact same hardware as me in a slightly larger case, its like the big brother version of mine (though I switched my 7700K for a 3950X).

 

It was quite a lot to read, but one thing to consider is that fans in pull configuration tend to be louder than when in push. I think the air being drawn in through the radiators has a tendency to amplify the noise. You have both radiators in pull-intake at the moment, so it would be the worst for noise.

 

I think you can also power your pump speed if you find it too rattly/loud, generally you can get away with quite low flow rates before seeing dramatic impact on the temperatures.

 

O11 Dynamic XL is a good case, but it doesn't look very generic business I'm afraid. Maybe Define 7 XL, though its kinda huge,

[Zephir]

Aha, I did not know that about differences in push and pull... Interesting. Thanks for chiming in! I took a look at your build and man, that really is no tolerance! Wow...

 

Someone local to me has tested the R6 with dual 360mm GTS radiators and found dual intake the best for thermal performance with a 8700K and a single 1080Ti. I haven't considered it might also change the noise profile...

 

Did you notice much difference in thermals going from a Define C to a Mesh front? And from a 7700K to a 3950x?

 

 

[For Science!]

7 minutes ago, Zephir said:

Did you notice much difference in thermals going from a Define C to a Mesh front? And from a 7700K to a 3950x?

So many things changed between the Define and Meshify C build that it's kind of hard to associate one thing specifically to the  case. I opted to go for a negative pressure system where the heat of the radiators are exhausted directly out of the case, and I think for me that was the biggest difference as I could feel the heat from the radiators were re-heating my components in my Define C case.

 

The 3950X is hotter than my delidded 7700K, but the loop is functional even with the 2x 1080Ti with only the 360 + 240 mm GTS. It's been doing heavy load calculations all throughout Corona non-stop, and that's even with a decently aggresive all-core OC (4.3 GHz). I think if I eased my OC a little bit, it's probably cooler than the 7700K overall, also I don't use a monoblock anymore (and instead just use a spotfan for the VRMs) so that took a substantial load off the loop too.

[jaslion]

You didn't exactly opt for the most quiet fans. Also having a less restrictive airflow case will help with noise as the fans will have a much easier time getting air thus have less work to do. Yes it seems counterproductive for silence but if the noise created overall is much lower then it will still be a lot more silent compared to having a restrictive case with not that quiet fans.

 

Watercooling is also at it's most effective if all parts in the loop get fresh air. But as far as I can see you already did that. Another point to note is that using just distilled water is easier to move around than dyed fluids. It may not seem like a bit of dye would cause an issue but it does make a noticeable difference.

 

I personally am just running a vega 56 unlocked to a 64 with a big oc on an alphacool eiswolf 240mm rad with some arctic p12's and the fans are locked at 650rpm. Keeps the card below 65c and is whisperquiet.  I did opt for a regular big boi aircooler. It is in a not optimal q300l chassis but it does the job. Your loop should be more than able to handle everything that is in there especially since multi gpu is dead and the second 1080ti is just chilling doing nothing. I would actually try the loop with the frontpanel removed and dust filter taken off from the top then lower the rpm of the fans.

[Zephir]

I bought the black PPC-2000rpm ones back when the chromax versions were not out yet... I do keep them on similar rpm's to the NF-F12'a with the Aquaero... Which ones would be better compared to NF-F12 PWM Chromax's?

 

The Define R6 has that thick sound deadening material in the side panel and on the front door, that does help with the high pitched coil whine noises I have on the GPU's under heavy load. Opening the door helps in temps, but does seem to have higher overall noise compared to closed door... It's difficult to assess that without a DB meter because the system would need to stabilise before you can actually make a proper comparison and my mind can't remember the sound level of the previous state objectively :). 

 

I had a regular water with a drop of biocide and inhibitor for a while, but switched to this opaque Mayhems fluid a while back as that looks a bit better in non-rgb mode. I believe it is a water / glycol blend.  I need to do maintenance in the near future, it might be a good idea to try and use water again to see if it makes a difference if I don't tear it down completely soon... I had a NH-D15 on the cpu for a while and a 280mm GTS for the GPU's in a Define R5 but that was not enough and the cpu didn't cope very well with the warm air. I upgraded to the R6 to make dual 360's work as that looks a lot better than a 360+280 (in a larger case, as For Science! proves it works really well with a 360 and 240 in a short case).

 

The top dustfilter is a must for me, as it is also a cat paw-filter  on the front I could try that... 

 

 

[HerrKaLeu]

The case won't matter if you have the top fans, especially if they are loud. They basically radiate all noise upwards and make this an open case.

Yes, the sound dampening on the inside helps dampen some internal noise, and the front baffle baffles some noise from the front fans. But the top fans are what matters.

 

I don't think there is a better case. You really need to reduce the noise produced. If you hear the pump, it has air in or is faulty. I work with HVAC pumps, we have 5 horsepower pumps and you are not able to tell if they are running or not, not even by touching to feel vibrations. You need to look at the display and flowmeter to see if they are running or not. That is how quiet pumps can be. 

 

You also can locate the case where the noise doesn't reach you directly. Like behind the desk. I have the R5 with the top closed up. 

It probably is expensive, but 140mm instead of 120mm radiators would help too. 

[Zephir]

Hmm, I have been contemplating replacing the D5 pump I use as a preventive measure. It has been running for about 3 years now. Not sure how frequently they fail. I feel the pump / res combo I use now is not ideal. I might be able to improve on that, for example with the heatkiller res mentioned in my opening post. I have an EK Predator 360mm with one of those low power DDC pumps and that one is louder than de D5 so I believe D5's are pretty much the best option available except custom pumps outside the case? Are different brands actually making their own D5's or all those all just rebranded Laing pumps? The Aquacomputer one seemed an interesting replacement because it has a bit more telemetry build in compared to the EK PWM one I have now and generally the quality of their stuff is good...

 

A 480mm radiator would fit in the top, but not with a 360 in front. That would have to become a 280mm then and that is a less clean look in my opinion. I had a 360mm SR2 in the top and a 280mm GTS in the front back when I had a Define R5... I think the flow in that one was better.

 

I could potentially improve the flow if I don't come down from the radiator, past and under the pump, into the flow meter under the pump and back up to the res on the glas side of the case that's a total of 3 90 degree bends I might be able to avoid, together with one block less... The thing is that flow meter is also on the ugly side, hence why I tucked it under the res...