Shopping for a UPS - Educate Me!

[Eschew]

Hey there! Welcome.

 

Brief

I'm in the market for a UPS to protect my system from sudden power outages and interruptions. There are two things I'm looking for with this thread: Recommendations and/or Education.

• Recommendations: I've only looked at a small selection of CyberPower's UPS units because of their supposed good price-to-performance/features, and because one of their models caught my eye at my local CostCo. That model (CST150XLU) is now off my interest list, but another (CP1500PFCLCD) has piqued my interest. Note that while I am open to recommendations, I am not looking for and will not respond to paltry advertisement. What I mean by this: If a recommendation is offered, I would appreciate it if you explained the reason behind the suggestion -- what features it has, how it meets my expectations, etc. I do not care for stories ("I've used Model X for Y years and it's never failed me.") or brand reputation ("Get APC because they're known to be good.").
  • "Reliability" is a bit of a gray area. You can mention it if you wish, but to convince me, I'd like some explanation of what makes X more reliable than Y. Failing that, some detailed corroborating accounts that I can verify (i.e. pls post links, pls). Otherwise, I'm putting my system in the hands of mere hearsay, and that doesn't seem very sensible to me.
• Education: This'll be my first time even looking at a UPS. Teach me what features I should be looking out for, what specs matter, and what don't. I can do my own research-shopping from there (teach a man to fish... you know how the saying goes). If possible, I would also appreciate it if info was relayed in layman's terms and in relation to real-life scenarios.

 

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General Idea

• Budget and Location: I aim to spend between $100 - $250 (USD), but this budget is by no means fixed. I am more than willing to invest a bit more cash into a UPS that will protect my system for several years to come, instead of scrounging up a few pennies now only to wind up disappointed or royally screwed down the road -- especially for a product that I will be relying on in an emergency.
• Aim: The UPS will only be connected to my PC, monitor, and an electric height-adjustable desk. I use the PC primarily for gaming, and I've been toying with the idea of hosting a game server for a while now (real life and gaming backlog been hogging up my time ). When I'm home and my PC's idle or close to idle, I also use it for Folding@home and BOINC.
• Why: Weather here in Cali always gets awfully hot in the summer, and it's usually around this time when we hit weird, unpredictable power fluctuations. I never found it a problem when my primary device was a laptop, but now that I've built my own PC, I'm worried for the day the power might cut out just as I'm in the middle of something. Power outages and brownouts aren't super common, at least in my area, but they do happen a handful of times every year, completely at random. Emphasis on unpredictable.
  • I think it recently switched to fall season... Flippin' weather's so hot it sure doesn't feel like fall.

 

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Relevant Details

I do not have a Kill A Watt meter. If it is absolutely essential, I can pony up the funds to purchase one. But if it's only a one-time measurement, I think I'll hold off on it for now.

 

The next best thing to estimate power draw, I suppose, is my PC specs:

Component	Selection	Price
CPU	AMD Ryzen 5 3600X 3.8 GHz 6-Core Processor	$159.99 (Purchased)
CPU Cooler	AMD Wraith Spire CPU Cooler	$0.00 (Bundled)
Motherboard	GIGABYTE B450 AORUS PRO WIFI (rev. 1.0) ATX AM4 Motherboard	$94.99 (Purchased)
Video Card	ASRock Radeon RX 5600 XT 6 GB Challenger D OC Video Card	$269.99 (Purchased)
Memory	TEAMGROUP T-FORCE VULCAN Z 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory	$131.98 (Purchased)
Storage	Inland Premium 512GB 3D NAND M.2 2280 PCIe NVMe 3.0 x4 Internal Solid State Drive	$67.99 (Purchased)
Storage	Seagate BarraCuda 1 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive	$10.82 (Purchased)
Power Supply	EVGA SuperNOVA GA 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply	$79.99 (Purchased)
Case	EVGA DG-75 Case	$59.99 (Purchased)
Operating System	Microsoft Windows 10 Home 64-bit	$0.00 (Purchased)
Monitor	Sceptre E255B-1658A 24.5" 1920x1080 165 Hz Monitor	$163.16 (Purchased)
Keyboard	The Glorious GMMK TKL Keyboard (Kailh BOX Black Switches)	$138.00 (Purchased)
Mouse	Logitech M510 Wireless Laser Mouse	$8.00 (Purchased)
Headphones	Drop + HIFIMAN HE-35X Headphones	$55.00 (Purchased)
	Grand Total*	$1239.90
	Generated by PCPartPicker

Unsure if it changes power draw, but I'm planning to throw in a bunch of Noctua case fans and a Noctua CPU cooler in there soon™.

 

Add in an Ashford Standing Desk (SKU: ODP10556-48D908). Here are some numbers I regurgitated from the manual, I don't know what they mean but I'm hoping they might be useful...?

• Input Voltage: 100 - 240V.
• Output Voltage: 24V DC 2.1 A.
• USB Output: 2.4 A.

Source: Model ODP10556-48D908 Manual.

 

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Interested Features & Reasoning

Currently interested in the CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD UPS. Here's what interested me:

• Line Interactive: Compared to Standby UPS units, this topology(?) protects or offers better stability against brownouts and power sags, I think? I'd like a stable source of power during unstable power fluctuations, so it sounds good to me.
  • I don't know whether I need or will make use of a Double Conversion/Online UPS unit. If you think I do, please try to convince me.
• True Sine Wave: I'm led to believe that simulated sine wave UPS units have some compatibility issues with certain electronics, while true sine wave UPS units don't. Unsure whether simulated vs. true matters with my PC hardware and peripherals, but I'd like to play it safe. If this is a non-issue for me, I'd appreciate a brief explanation.
• 1500 VA/900 W: If the power's out, my primary concern is shutting down my system safely. 900W seems to be enough to keep my system going for another 10-ish minutes, if CyberPower's product page is to be believed. InB4 Windows updates during a power outage.
  • I wouldn't mind paying a few bucks extra for a higher VA/W UPS unit if it means it has all the protections and features I'd find useful in an emergency.
• Display Screen: Nifty lil' thing. Might be a moot feature, though, seems like most decent UPS units come with display screens nowadays. I'd just like to check the UPS is doing what it's supposed to, without having to pull up the software on my PC.
• Replaceable Battery: The CP1500PFCLCD unit uses a RB1290X2 replaceable battery, which I expect to change every 5-ish years, probably? Point is, once the battery's life cycle is up, I only have to buy a $100 battery instead of forking over $200+ for a new UPS.
• Automatic Shutdown (Optional): Unsure whether this is a thing or if I'm making it up -- if the UPS software is able to safely shutdown my system during a power outage without any user input (e.g. while I'm at work), that'd be great. If no UPS software is able to do this, no problem.

Notice I haven't mentioned anything about protections, voltage regulations, other software features, and such. As I mentioned earlier, I have no idea what to prioritize, what to disregard, and how it all applies to real-life scenarios, so if you'd like to share some insight, I'd really appreciate it!

 

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Closing Comments

Many thanks for your interest, and mega thanks for any informative replies or thought-out recommendations! Eagerly awaiting your responses. 

 

...Wow, I didn't realize how uninformed I was about electricity and power supplies until I wrote up this post. Oh dear.

Spoiler

You could say I'm in the dark about this topic.

[DailyProcrastinator]

As always you have gone over and above, I'm pretty sure you know more than anyone answering here with the extent of your research hahahaha.

 

I'll provide some insight with my two UPS's I bought in mid 2018.

I have the CyberPower 1500VA/900W unit you mentioned, I have been very happy with it. However earlier this summer I had to move my main system for some wall repairs in my office and was using my CyberPower EC850LCD 850VA/510W unit in the meantime. I just happened to have a full power outage and was playing Anno 1800 when this happened with my then 3800x/1080Ti main system, I also had my 34" UW Asus PG348Q plugged in. 

 

I got the audible warning right when the power went out, I quickly saved and quit my game and had a few other background tasks to save and close, all said and done this took 5+ min and I still had an estimated 6min of power use left. So if you don't have much more plugged in the 850VA/510W is probably a solid buy. 

 

The reality is that sustained power loads are never that high or for very long, this system has never pulled more than 475W (PSU calculator says 680W-ish) and even at max load it would be for a few seconds at most. I have never had to actually 'use' my 1500VA/900W unit so I can't really speak on how log it would last, but if I had to guess it would probably be 20+ min.

 

I mean if I was completing a render or gaming etc I would never continue that task if the power went out, and once that higher load task stops power usage drops down by a ton. So really up to you, I can definitely recommend both units I have. I honestly was not expecting the EC850 unit to perform as well as it did, but glad to know it can hold up with my most power hungry system. 

[GhostRoadieBL]

first off here's a link to a useful tool to determine max and min estimated run time for various capacity UPSs based on your wattage draw. 

https://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/tools/ups_selector/home/load

 

Dry version of what VA and Watts are in relation to UPSs https://powerquality.eaton.com/thoughtleadership/power-protection/va-vs-watts.asp

TLDR divide the watts by the power factor (0-1.0) to find the VA of the UPS

 

your computer seems to draw in the neighborhood of 350 watts maybe 400 watts at maxed load on everything, from the sceptre webpage your monitor draws 30 watts at max, and a bit of math (Volts x Amps = Watts) gets us near as makes no difference 50 watts for the desk while raising and lowering for a grand total of 480 watts for worst case scenario, add in a phone charger and we can round to an even 500 watts maxed for simplicity. 

 

plugging in those numbers gives us a 1500VA UPS with 17min run time or a 1000VA UPS with 11min run time at 500watts draw. 
 

it is highly unlikely you will be moving the desk, and running cpu/gpu stress tests all at the same time when the power fails so this is a worst case scenario, more realistic wattage for the setup is in the 250-300watt range if you are actively gaming at the time of the power failure so 1000VA gets you around 22min of power. 

 

Snake oil specs to look out for:

"waveform" sine wave - this is what all AC wall outlet power is, has a fancy term but not actually a Sine Wave Generating UPS which will cost in the $2-3k minimum as it fully sends the input voltage to charge the batteries and then separately generates a perfect sine wave output form the battery, no connection at all to the input power source. 

 

"Topology" line interactive/AVR - this is voltage regulation and simply means the 110v output will be as near to spec as their circuitry can smooth it out. Every UPS has this it's commonly referred to as "surge protection"

 

runtime half and full - use the calculator instead, this is based on most ideal conditions with "full wattage" loads with unchanging power draw, basically a minimum output time. 

 

 

Recommendations:

Tripp Lite SMART1300LCDT listed at $133.18 normally $225 on amazon

1300VA/720W

key feature set
- management software through the USB plug but screen is on the front too

- User replaceable hot swap batteries so you don't have to take the system offline to replace the battery

- Automatic voltage regulation for brown outs (routes all input power through a variable transformer to fully isolate output from the source and compensate for low/high spikes)

- 3 year warranty covers degraded batteries so you can get a replacement just before the third year is up and have a fresh UPS just before the end of the warranty

- lifetime insurance for connected devices. 

Cyberpower CP1500AVRLCD Intelligent blah blah blah long product name 

1500VA/900W 

same same features as the Tripp Lite but has a higher connected device payout (not that you are likely to lose $500k worth of computer)

the Cyberpower one you have been interested in is the model up from this one and as far as I can tell is the same in all the circuitry with a slightly different outside case and screen

 

 

[Eschew]

On 9/4/2020 at 8:58 PM, TheDailyProcrastinator said:

I'll provide some insight with my two UPS's I bought in mid 2018.

Hm. I'm afraid that while your account is interesting, the only definitive info I've managed to glean from it is that the EC850LCD managed to offer your system around 10 min of run time during a power outage. I'm uncertain how much of that account is applicable to my own situation and the specific product I'm looking at.

 

Not that I'm ungrateful -- I appreciate the time you've spent in your reply -- but, as I mentioned in the main thread above, I'm less interested in show-and-tell stories (and guesswork) and more interested in explanations. I'd like to learn, not just blindly follow someone else's recommendations.

 

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On 9/4/2020 at 9:41 PM, GhostRoadieBL said:

-Power Draw Discussion Snip-

Ah, many thanks! The linked resources are useful, and you've effectively done my homework for me with the estimated power draw and run times -- and accompanied it with a concise explanation as well! I'm not too nit-picky about specific numbers for run times, an estimated 10 - 20 min is plenty enough for my use.

 

Had a few questions about other parts of your reply, I hope you (or others that are interested) wouldn't mind answering?

On 9/4/2020 at 9:41 PM, GhostRoadieBL said:

"waveform" sine wave - this is what all AC wall outlet power is, has a fancy term but not actually a Sine Wave Generating UPS which will cost in the $2-3k minimum as it fully sends the input voltage to charge the batteries and then separately generates a perfect sine wave output form the battery, no connection at all to the input power source. 

• Is "waveform sine wave" the same thing as "true sine wave"?
• Does your statement mean that, if the wall outlet outputs clean AC power, I don't have to worry about whether the UPS is simulated sine wave vs. true sine wave?

Also, slightly related to the sine wave topic, I came across these:

• Choosing UPS: PFC vs non-PFC: A somewhat dated LTT thread discussing the CP1500AVRLCD (one of your recommendations) and the CP1500PFCLCD (unit I'm interested in), and simulated sine wave vs. true sine wave.
• Active PFC Power Supply with Simulated Sine Wave PSU (Non Pure): Another dated thread with an explanation (marked as best solution) about using simulated sine wave UPS units and Active PFC PSUs. Mentions a statement about identifying Active PFC PSUs that I'm slightly doubtful about.

From the above, I gathered that the CP1500AVRLCD's simulated sine wave might cause some issues with Active PFC PSUs (electrical noise and shutdowns?) -- issues that would perhaps be negated with the CP1500PFCLCD's true sine wave? (Or... am I completely mistaken?) Also, slightly doubtful of the following blanket statement about Active PFC PSUs:

Quote

How do you know which PSUs have Active PFC and which ones don't?
Simple, every PSU that has 80+ certification has Active PFC.

If the above statement is true, it suggests my current PSU has Active PFC, and that the possibility that it will run into issues with a simulated sine wave UPS exists.

 

I should probably add that, with me being very uneducated in electricity/power supplies, I'm looking for (1) a streamlined, plug-and-play experience, and (2) as few issues left to possibilities/chance as possible. When it comes to troubleshooting power issues, I am incredibly ill-equipped, and I can guarantee the process will be awfully painful and time-consuming. Spending an extra $50 to save myself from a giant migraine in the future is perfectly acceptable to me. (Throwing money at the problem, as it were.)

On 9/4/2020 at 9:41 PM, GhostRoadieBL said:

"Topology" line interactive/AVR - this is voltage regulation and simply means the 110v output will be as near to spec as their circuitry can smooth it out. Every UPS has this it's commonly referred to as "surge protection"

 

runtime half and full - use the calculator instead, this is based on most ideal conditions with "full wattage" loads with unchanging power draw, basically a minimum output time. 

Did a bit of Googling around, and what I've read seems to line up with what you've pointed out. My thanks for bringing the snake-oil to my attention.

 

Extra thanks for explaining UPS topics such that a pleb like me can understand and follow up on; very grateful for the time and effort you've spent in your reply! 

 

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Current Stance: Unless I've overlooked some dire detail, or unless someone convinces me otherwise, I'm still eyeing the CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD UPS unit. Recently found out that CyberPower's PowerPanel software (as well as Tripp Lite's PowerAlert software) does have automatic shutdown. Also, I find it hard to disagree with what the OP of the PFC vs. non-PFC thread mentioned:

On 4/14/2018 at 12:42 PM, pitA said:

...since a UPS is an insurance, it seems silly to introduce uncertainty for a bit of savings. So, grudgingly I'll probably get the PFC unit.

Related-but-Unrelated IRL Rambling:

Spoiler

Coincidentally, power blinked out two times today -- wait, it's midnight now -- yesterday, I mean. One at around 1:00 AM (interrupted my overnight F@H, dangnabbit), and another at around 3:00 PM.

 

*sigh*

 

Emphasizes exactly why I'm shopping for a UPS.

[GhostRoadieBL]

19 hours ago, Eschew said:

• Is "waveform sine wave" the same thing as "true sine wave"?
• Does your statement mean that, if the wall outlet outputs clean AC power, I don't have to worry about whether the UPS is simulated sine wave vs. true sine wave?

for UPSs under $2-3k they mean the same thing, for the higher end ones (IE separated battery racks with power delivery and charging rack units) "true sine wave" usually also comes with terms like "digital sine wave generating" or "air gap power protection" 
in this price range it simply means wave smoothing through transformers, capacitors, various circuitry voodoo to clean up noisy sine waves within a set band like 58-62 hz 

 

if your wall outlet has decent power stability you have nothing to worry about. I can't speak to how unstable the wave would have to be as I have been lucky with good power wherever I have lived/worked. the only times I have seen very unstable power has been in our machine shop when people start and stop the Lathe due to the massive current draw causes the whole breaker panel to bog down slightly but none of their computers have ever had an issue with the "man made brownout". the UPSs never skipped a beat. 

 

simulates vs true/pure sine wave, if you can afford true sine wave get true sine wave as there is cleaner output and more stability when switching over to battery supply. Simulated sine waves have a less smooth change over to battery but I can only speak anecdotally on running both styles, neither have had any issues with my 80+ PSUs and testing them after reading your comment they both switch over without any measurable gaps on the output. I believe if you have a brownout before the power failure and the capacitors in the UPS discharge before causing the full battery switchover it is likely the simulated wave UPS will have a gap while recharging the caps from the battery after losing power fully. that gap would be in microseconds and MAY not matter to your system, it may also cause a shutdown or even a bluescreen for processor power, I can't simulate that thought and it's only a theory based on the circuitry of each type. Can't find anyone who has benchtested or confirmed the idea PFC and simulated sine waves guarantee a shutdown. 

 

one thing which you wont find in the manuals (at least I haven't) is most UPSs come partially charged, best practice is to plug in the UPS, let it build full charge and then start powering your devices with it. The cells will last longer as you won't be discharging and charging at the same time while it charges. it only takes 20-30 min but I have seen too many people just plug everything into the UPS and then plug the UPS in. 

[DailyProcrastinator]

On 9/6/2020 at 1:41 AM, Eschew said:

Hm. I'm afraid that while your account is interesting, the only definitive info I've managed to glean from it is that the EC850LCD managed to offer your system around 10 min of run time during a power outage. I'm uncertain how much of that account is applicable to my own situation and the specific product I'm looking at.

 

Not that I'm ungrateful -- I appreciate the time you've spent in your reply -- but, as I mentioned in the main thread above, I'm less interested in show-and-tell stories (and guesswork) and more interested in explanations. I'd like to learn, not just blindly follow someone else's recommendations.

  Reveal hidden contents

Coincidentally, power blinked out two times today -- wait, it's midnight now -- yesterday, I mean. One at around 1:00 AM (interrupted my overnight F@H, dangnabbit), and another at around 3:00 PM.

 

*sigh*

 

Emphasizes exactly why I'm shopping for a UPS.

Well it's a more power hungry system than yours, and I got 10min while using the EC850. So one of your questions was wanting to know if you could get 10min with the CyberPower 1500VA/900W, the answer would be yes. Whether or not it would be the absolute best choice for the budget or not have features other comparables do/do not have I do not know. But at least a real world account gives some direction, if everything was based on theory we'd have no practical knowledge. 

 

16 hours ago, GhostRoadieBL said:

one thing which you wont find in the manuals (at least I haven't) is most UPSs come partially charged, best practice is to plug in the UPS, let it build full charge and then start powering your devices with it. The cells will last longer as you won't be discharging and charging at the same time while it charges. it only takes 20-30 min but I have seen too many people just plug everything into the UPS and then plug the UPS in. 

I'm almost certain that both of mine had a sticker on it stating that you need to fully charge it prior to use. I can't remember for certain whether it was a sticker or piece of paper, but I distinctly remember needing to charge the cells and I would not have had prior knowledge of that, so I think some units make that more clear now? Could just be Cyperpower, not totally sure on how this would be across other products.

[Eschew]

Ah, a foreword. This reply is long, but only because I feel I should explain the goals of this thread in relation to your replies, and I thought that ignoring your reply would send the wrong (passive-aggressive) sort of message. I hope I don't offend or come across as headstrong? 

7 hours ago, TheDailyProcrastinator said:

Well it's a more power hungry system than yours, and I got 10min while using the EC850. So one of your questions was wanting to know if you could get 10min with the CyberPower 1500VA/900W, the answer would be yes. But at least a real world account gives some direction, if everything was based on theory we'd have no practical knowledge.

While I agree that real world accounts are useful sometimes, that is not what I'm looking for with this post. As I stated in the original post, I'm looking for Recommendations (with sufficient explanation) and/or Education.

 

First:

On 9/4/2020 at 8:31 PM, Eschew said:

• Recommendations: Note that while I am open to recommendations, I am not looking for and will not respond to paltry advertisement. What I mean by this: If a recommendation is offered, I would appreciate it if you explained the reason behind the suggestion -- what features it has, how it meets my expectations, etc. I do not care for stories ("I've used Model X for Y years and it's never failed me.") or brand reputation ("Get APC because they're known to be good.").
  • "Reliability" is a bit of a gray area. You can mention it if you wish, but to convince me, I'd like some explanation of what makes X more reliable than Y. Failing that, some detailed corroborating accounts that I can verify (i.e. pls post links, pls). Otherwise, I'm putting my system in the hands of mere hearsay, and that doesn't seem very sensible to me.

The issue with someone else's account is simply that -- someone else's. I have no (inexpensive, non time-consuming) way of verifying a one-off recollection of someone else's memory, unless that someone has also helpfully linked other accounts that confirm the same claims. A small sample size begets very biased results.

 

Even if I were provided a hundred corroborating accounts, the only purpose it serves is to verify the claim that, indeed, this unit does perform to X standards. Doubtful I would actually learn much from this sort of data collection.

 

Second: I feel there's a contradiction with your two replies.

On 9/4/2020 at 8:58 PM, TheDailyProcrastinator said:

I have never had to actually 'use' my 1500VA/900W unit so I can't really speak on how log it would last, but if I had to guess it would probably be 20+ min.

7 hours ago, TheDailyProcrastinator said:

But at least a real world account gives some direction

The way I see it -- I'll provide an analogy:

A scientist conducts Experiment A, testing Variable Unit A on Specimen A in Test Environment A, and records the results. In their lab report, the scientist suggests that Experiment's A results would be applicable to a separate Experiment B, which uses Variable Unit B on Specimen B in Test Environment B.

 

I'm afraid that sort of extrapolation wouldn't hold up in any peer-reviewed scientific journal.

 

Even if your claim happens to be correct (that the CP1500PFCLCD is able to sustain my system for 10 - 20 min), a Yes-man or "the ends justifies the means" answer is not the be-all, end-all goal of this thread. A simple "Yes" or "Get this" answer might suffice for others ("What hardware should I get" threads) -- not so for me. One, I'm here to learn so that I can make an adequately informed purchase, and two, I've always been the skeptical sort, especially when money is involved, and won't readily buy into another's claims (unless provided adequate reason to). If I don't understand the reasoning and if I can't verify the details behind the claim, the answer lacks meaning for me.

 

Apologies in advance if I offended or came across as headstrong. Thank you for your reply, regardless.