Bottleneck Question - Old GPU

[Pellate]

Hello everyone. I have a quick question regarding bottle necking.

A person told me that my new PC build might have a bottleneck due to the old graphics card i'll be using.

I haven't been able to test it yet because I am getting the CPU Friday.

My main purpose for this build is to game & stream at the same time with it.

I have to save up for the RTX 2070 Super before I can put it in my new build.

 

New Build:

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8 GHz 12-Core Processor

MOTHERBOARD: Asus PRIME X570-PRO ATX AM4 Motherboard

RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory

STORAGE: Samsung 970 Evo 500 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive

GPU: Radeon RX 570 Series

PSU: Corsair RMx White (2018) 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply

OS: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro 64-bit

 

I know that 3900X CPU & 2070 Super would not bottleneck because they are a good bundle for performance but does anyone know if what that guy was saying is true regarding using the 570 Radeon with 3900X CPU?

If so please break it down and explain to me. Thanks in advance

Side Note: I'm trying to get into IT eventually

 

[YT_DomDaBomb20]

Yes. The cpu is too powerful for the gpu. Your gpu will be near 100% all  time in game, and your cpu won’t even touch the 50% area

[Moonzy]

Bottleneck is just a term to describe the slowest component in a system that's preventing it from performing the task any faster.

 

First things first, you'll always have a bottleneck, or else your computer would be infinitely fast and you should contact me if that's the case.

It highly depends on the task at hand

Some tasks is heavier on the CPU, some heavier on the GPU, games are the same way too, so the "bottleneck" changes

 

In most games, your GPU would be the "bottleneck" of your system because most games are more GPU demanding, and pairing it with a 3900x, which is a high end CPU, doesn't help with that

But that's fine, it only means the game will run as fast as the GPU allows it to be, and that you can gain more by upgrading the GPU (which you plan to do)

 

I wouldn't worry too much about it

If your GPU is the bottleneck and you aren't getting enough fps, try lowering the graphic settings

Lowering the graphical settings mostly lessen the load on the GPU more than CPU.

 

Edit:

Also about streaming, AMD GPU encoder is not great, you can try using software x264 for now on fast or medium settings, you'll see heavy load on your CPU but the quality differences is there

 

When you get Nvidia GPU, u can use their NVENC.

NVENC Turing is the best encoder for now, at almost no performance impact

[DakotaWebber]

You could use a Ryzen 3 3100 and still hit 100% on that GPU, its just not very powerful, that CPU is way overkill for gaming and streaming, you would do just fine or even better with a R7 3700x due to the higher clocks, and the money saved can go to a better GPU 

 

 

 

 

[Bombastinator]

My old lead 4770k can bottleneck a 570.  It can bottleneck a 580.  I know because I do it regularly.  If you want a cpu to match speeds with that card gaming your looking in the $50 range not the $500 range.  As @Moonzy said though a bottleneck is not a “ the sky is falling!” Situation.  It just means that the 3900x will not run flat out in most games.  If it’s enough for your use though it doesn’t matter.  Bottleneck only matters for reviewers because it means they can’t test the cpu well.  

[Pellate]

8 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

My old lead 4770k can bottleneck a 570.  It can bottleneck a 580.  I know because I do it regularly.  If you want a cpu to match speeds with that card gaming your looking in the $50 range not the $500 range.  As @Moonzy said though a bottleneck is not a “ the sky is falling!” Situation.  It just means that the 3900x will not run flat out in most games.  If it’s enough for your use though it doesn’t matter.  Bottleneck only matters for reviewers because it means they can’t test the cpu well.  

Oh I see. That makes more sense. So technically it doesn't matter. So the 2070 Super doesn't match up with the 3900X? What graphic card does match up then? I really only want to play a few low end games like diablo 3, warframe, battlefield 4, rainbow six seige. Rainbow Six seige is the main one though. So basically it's like overclocking in a sense that it's really only testers that care a lot  about these things.

[Moonzy]

2 hours ago, Pellate said:

So the 2070 Super doesn't match up with the 3900X? What graphic card does match up then?

Strictly speaking there's no GPU that doesn't match with a CPU, is just that you should balance their relative power so that you utilise more of both at the same time

 

ie: (made up situation and number, not real number)

Rx 570 can run csgo at 40 fps

Rtx2070S can run csgo at 80fps

3900x can run csgo at 100 fps

 

Now if you pair the 3900x with 570, you'll get 40fps, and 60% of the CPU is not used, which is fine unless you'd like it to run better

 

If you pair 3900x with 2070S, the game will run at 80fps, only 20% of your CPU is not used, which is more balanced compared to the configuration before

 

u can swap the number and components around to signify different bottlenecks for different task

ie:

Rx 570 can run x at 40 fps

3900x can run x at 80fps

2070S can run x at 100 fps

 

rx570 would bottleneck a 3900x, but a 3900x would bottleneck a 2070s in this particular task

 

or

 

3900x can run y at 40 fps

570 can run y at 80fps

2070S can run y at 100 fps

 

3900x will bottleneck any of these gpu in this particular task

 

2 hours ago, Pellate said:

So basically it's like overclocking in a sense that it's really only testers that care a lot  about these things.

What do you mean?

[Bombastinator]

2 hours ago, Pellate said:

Oh I see. That makes more sense. So technically it doesn't matter. So the 2070 Super doesn't match up with the 3900X? What graphic card does match up then? I really only want to play a few low end games like diablo 3, warframe, battlefield 4, rainbow six seige. Rainbow Six seige is the main one though. So basically it's like overclocking in a sense that it's really only testers that care a lot  about these things.

Yes. It depends on the game.  There are a few very gpu intensive games where my 4770k might bottleneck a 2080ti. Reviewers don’t test those games because it’s pointless for them to use for reviewing. There is REAALY cpu intensive stuff where a 3900 wouldn’t bottleneck a 570.  Theyre generally not games though.  Linus Torvalds recently built a machine with a 3970x and a 580 and pointed out that for his use there was too much GPU. He only bought it because it was the cheapest gpu he could easily find.  He’s a programmer that compiles a lot though.  It’s all about use case.  The advantage of a 3900 is you can put more GPU on it later.  It will last through many GPU improvements and you can run very cpu intensive stuff and still force the gpu to run flat out.  A 3700x was mentioned earlier because that cpu has as many threads AND more ghz than any even soon to be released console has.  Anything written to run on a console can never bog it down because it’s too big.  A 3900x would have enough power to run any console game and do other stuff too at the same time without getting bogged down because it’s got 4/8 left over.  With a 3900x you wouldn’t need to buy an new cpu for many years.  That’s what I did many years ago. I bought the biggest cpu I could get. My machine has had 3 gpu replacements with no cpu replacements. It’s been many years though and my $400 cpu can be outclassed by stuff costing $100.  More importantly it’s only 4/8 so when the new games for the new consoles come out it probably won’t run new games well anymore.  I figure ive got till Black Friday to get something faster.  Not a bad run.  I’ve had that cpu for a long time.

[Pellate]

I'm saying that people that overclock are mainly testers and in a sense it's similar with gpu / cpu bottle necking because those testers test for things like that were as the average gamer doesn't really care or notice a bottleneck. They mainly care about those aspects. I myself am leaving the 3900x stock and not overclocked because I don't need to do that. I want it to last a long time.

[Pellate]

7 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

 It’s all about use case.  The advantage of a 3900 is you can put more GPU on it later.  It will last through many GPU improvements and you can run very cpu intensive stuff and still force the gpu to run flat out.  A 3700x was mentioned earlier because that cpu has as many threads AND more ghz than any even soon to be released console has.  Anything written to run on a console can never bog it down because it’s too big.  A 3900x would have enough power to run any console game and do other stuff too at the same time without getting bogged down because it’s got 4/8 left over.  With a 3900x you wouldn’t need to buy an new cpu for many years.  That’s what I did many years ago. I bought the biggest cpu I could get. My machine has had 3 gpu replacements with no cpu replacements. It’s been many years though and my $400 cpu can be outclassed by stuff costing $100.  More importantly it’s only 4/8 so when the new games for the new consoles come out it probably won’t run new games well anymore.  

EXACTLY! People keep telling me get a 3700x and i'm like nah you don't understand me lol. I'm trying to future proof it and have it last as long possible. I'm even going to make my own 3 month maintenance checklist for my entire rig so I wouldn't need to upgrade my CPU for a long time. Replacing GPU isn't a big issue. I care more about CPU because that's what I have seen die a lot on me when I use laptops which I don't use anymore. I know it's not the same because laptop and desktop are different but I'm investing more in CPU because I don't want that to happen just like how my laptops die. If it does die on desktop, by that time I would have enough money to upgrade for a new CPU if anything.

[Moonzy]

18 minutes ago, Pellate said:

people that overclock are mainly testers ... because those testers test for things like that were as the average gamer doesn't really care or notice a bottleneck.

oh, no.

people who overclock are people who seeks the "free" peformance gains

say, you have an old cpu and it's starting to get dated

you can buy a new one, or just overclock and gain some extra performance to maybe last you one or two more generations

 

personally running 3900x and 2070super, i undervolt my cpu and overclock my gpu (overvolt is not overclock, they're slightly different)

because the 3900x is so powerful, i dont need all that performance now, so i undervolted it so it would run cooler(and more efficient)

i overclock my 2070super but undervolted it, overclocking does decrease the lifespan of the gpu, but overclocking does not harm the card as much as overvolting would, but i undervolted mine so it runs cooler and more efficient as well (because my task mainly relies on efficincy more than raw performance) 

 

and the GPU and CPU is meant to last quite a few years, some people argue that shaving some years off of it is worth it, as you're probably have replaced them before they break

 

11 minutes ago, Pellate said:

I'm trying to future proof it and have it last as long possible.

i would argue that actually buying mid-high range PC and upgrading ever few years is better than buying super high end and using it for many years if you want to get future features and stuff, not to mention higher IPC and clockspeeds

 

by the time most games utilise 12 cores, your cpu would probably have too slow of a single core speed to run the game well to begin with.

[Pellate]

3 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

oh, no.

people who overclock are people who seeks the "free" peformance gains

say, you have an old cpu and it's starting to get dated

you can buy a new one, or just overclock and gain some extra performance to maybe last you one or two more generations

 

personally running 3900x and 2070super, i undervolt my cpu and overclock my gpu (overvolt is not overclock, they're slightly different)

because the 3900x is so powerful, i dont need all that performance now, so i undervolted it so it would run cooler(and more efficient)

i overclock my 2070super but undervolted it, overclocking does decrease the lifespan of the gpu, but overclocking does not harm the card as much as overvolting would, but i undervolted mine so it runs cooler and more efficient as well (because my task mainly relies on efficincy more than raw performance) 

 

and the GPU and CPU is meant to last quite a few years, some people argue that shaving some years off of it is worth it

 

i would argue that actually buying mid-high range PC and upgrading ever few years is better than buying super high end and using it for many years if you want to get future features and stuff, not to mention higher IPC and clockspeeds

 

by the time most games utilise 12 cores, your cpu would probably have too slow of a single core speed to run the game well to begin with.

I see what you're saying. I just think i fiddled with overclocking ish too much in the past and I just want it stock to preserve the lifespan. It's similar in a sense with cars. You can keep the car stock and have it hold it's value or mod it up and abuse it for performance. 

I find too many cars on auto trader that have mods that look good and cool but at the bottom it's sold "as is" lol. 

 

I personally could go mid range like lower cpu and even lower graphics but that's not me at all. 

 

I also don't play many games. I'm very selective about what games I play. As for other tasks apart from gaming and streaming it would be video editing and maybe some light graphic design.

[Moonzy]

2 minutes ago, Pellate said:

I personally could go mid range like lower cpu and even lower graphics but that's not me at all.

rich.

3 minutes ago, Pellate said:

As for other tasks apart from gaming and streaming it would be video editing and maybe some light graphic design.

well, it depends if you require all 12-cores then, no one knows your work requirements better than you do

3 minutes ago, Pellate said:

I just want it stock to preserve the lifespan

well, you could say that you're probably have replaced them or is on the verge of replacing when they do break

unless your OC is insane

[Pellate]

20 hours ago, Moonzy said:

 

 

I wouldn't worry too much about it

If your GPU is the bottleneck and you aren't getting enough fps, try lowering the graphic settings

Lowering the graphical settings mostly lessen the load on the GPU more than CPU.

 

Edit:

Also about streaming, AMD GPU encoder is not great, you can try using software x264 for now on fast or medium settings, you'll see heavy load on your CPU but the quality differences is there

 

When you get Nvidia GPU, u can use their NVENC.

NVENC Turing is the best encoder for now, at almost no performance impact

I agree. AMD GPU are dirt for streaming with OBS. As for lowering the graphical settings I do that for games like rainbow six seige so it's not a problem. I'm okay with playing low to medium settings cause high and ultra/4k are for a different set of gamers that are usually involved with the story of a game and not the competitiveness.

 

I'm just wondering what settings I should use for the 3900x for streaming. Veryfast / Fast / Medium.

 

I've looked at videos comparing 3900x to 2070 super in terms of streaming and It showed that the 3900x didn't have dropped frames but if you wanted better quality you'd go NVENC. 

[Moonzy]

1 minute ago, Pellate said:

I'm just wondering what settings I should use for the 3900x for streaming. Veryfast / Fast / Medium.

depends on many factor such as resolution and game's cpu usage

but most of the time, if u stream 1080p60 at 6000kbps, your cpu should be able to do medium without any dropped frames... in most games -glares at monster hunter world-

 

4 minutes ago, Pellate said:

I've looked at videos comparing 3900x to 2070 super in terms of streaming and It showed that the 3900x didn't have dropped frames but if you wanted better quality you'd go NVENC.

dropped frames only occur when the encoder is overloaded or your bandwidth to the streaming server is insufficient

neither cpu or nvenc encoder should have dropped frames.

but yes, the quality of nvenc turing is very good, compared to other solutions

older generation nvenc is slightly worse than software x264 fast preset in most cases, but still tons better than AMD encoder