Thinking about a 2gamer1cpu

[OddOod]

Partslist: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/OddOod/saved/#view=skbjZL plus 2x 3080ti  likely EVGA FTW models, though if I can find a case for it I'd love a pair of Hybrids. Also I'm yet to settle on a case, probably an ATX with full fan loadout shooting for positive pressure with filtered intakes. I love the phanteks eclipse series because it's a dream to build in

I want to make an Unraid build with 2 gaming VMs largely because in the summer our gaming room can jump to 90 degrees. Offsiting the heat to the basement will allow us to game in comfort all year round. 
The plan is to split the CPU down the middle (Unraid seems to be totally fine with this) and passing through an M.2 and a 3080ti to each VM, then moonlighting into the VM whenever I want to play. We already have 8700/1080ti endpoints, but I'm pushing for 4k@120 with the LG 27GN950B.

 

Thoughts? Criticisms? Pitfalls?

 

Budget (including currency): 5000USD

Country: US

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for: Largely latest-ish AAA titles

 

[Shimejii]

Seems kinda wasteful honestly. It just doesnt seem worth it for 5000 usd... Id just do two Cheaper systems if able, and i really still cant recommend 4k gaming until we know what the numbers are.

[Moonzy]

How willing are you to deal with setting up a VM and debugging it?

 

2 separate machine is always better

 

If you're worried about the heat, use long cables and toss your computer in another room, or use steam link to play games

[OddOod]

1 minute ago, Shimejii said:

Seems kinda wasteful honestly

I'd likely go with 3900XTs anyway so this really saves me the cost of a second CPU/MB/Cooler.

 

2 minutes ago, Shimejii said:

still cant recommend 4k gaming

I've been doing 4K for years now. zero regrets

 

3 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

How willing are you to deal with setting up a VM

Been there done that. There's some extra time overhead in set up, but if I can game in 70 degree bliss, it's worth the extra weekend

 

4 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

use long cables and toss your computer in another room

I looked into this, but the only space I have is in the basement while the gaming room is on the second floor and the cost for thunderbolt over those distances is multi K

 

 

The original plan was to do two full fat systems and gaming over LAN, and I'm totally fine if that's what ends up needing to happen. If this doesn't work all I'm out is some time and an oversized case

[startrek03]

7 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

How willing are you to deal with setting up a VM and debugging it?

Valorant actually denies playing from a VM because of their wonderful Anticheat. Don't know about other games, though.

[OddOod]

1 minute ago, startrek03 said:

Valorant actually denies playing from a VM because of their wonderful Anticheat.

Ah, clarification: we do not play PvP games, but that is a major concern for some people. Thanks for bringing that up!

[Moonzy]

6 minutes ago, OddOod said:

cost for thunderbolt

Personally used USB, HDMI, DP, and audio extension (thinking of usb sound card)

 

Though going thru 2 floors is a bit too far for some of these connections yes

Had issues with my DP cable dropping 1080p240 signals, had to get a higher quality cable

[startrek03]

2 minutes ago, OddOod said:

Ah, clarification: we do not play PvP games, but that is a major concern for some people. Thanks for bringing that up!

I just wanna say, look up what you're playing and make sure it works in VMs.

[OddOod]

3 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

going thru 2 floors is a bit too far

Don't get me wrong, I looked into that. Even going so far as to throw it on the same floor, opposite end of the house, but 2x that bundle of cables is basically a nonstarter, even with HDMI over Cat5e
 

1 minute ago, startrek03 said:

look up what you're playing

Yeah, man, that would be a huge pain if I found out after the fact. Is there a list of games that don't work in VM? Google is failing me

[startrek03]

3 minutes ago, OddOod said:

Don't get me wrong, I looked into that. Even going so far as to throw it on the same floor, opposite end of the house, but 2x that bundle of cables is basically a nonstarter, even with HDMI over Cat5e
 

Yeah, man, that would be a huge pain if I found out after the fact. Is there a list of games that don't work in VM? Google is failing me

Might answer that question:

I wouldn't do it just for not wanting to limit my own options. But if you're 100% sure you won't play Mulitplayer at all, it shouldn't be a problem.

[startrek03]

Btw, did you think about watercooling your PCs in a different room? The only thing that has to be run would be the tubes of your water cooling loop and maybe some control cables. You might have to invest in some weird water blocks to cool normally air coold components and a really strong pump but that might be relatively cheap in comparison to some alternatives.

[OddOod]

Just now, startrek03 said:

watercooling your PCs in a different room

Do you mean having the PC in my room, then running water to a rad in a different room? Or watercooling the PC in a different room and running cabling to the gaming room?
If the former, I feel like Whole Room Watercooling answered that question, and if the latter, that's either a whackton of cabling or fat stacks of cash for thunderbolt cabling, and there would be little point in watercooling given the fact that the PC consumes the same amount of energy which means it's the same amount of heat

 

[startrek03]

1 minute ago, OddOod said:

Do you mean having the PC in my room, then running water to a rad in a different room?

Yes. I know that whole room water cooling failed. My thought just was that it could be done better somehow. However, I watched it a long time ago and I don't really know anymore what the actual issue was.

[OddOod]

3 minutes ago, startrek03 said:

what the actual issue was

In hunting for a solution I reviewed the video and the problem was twofold. First, the pipes in the room shed too much heat because even good pipe insulation is R4 and you'd want something >R10, and recirculating the hot water through the 2nd etc PC shed a lot of heat into the room.
Also, hanging the pipes out the side of the house seems.... sketch

 

 

[Electronics Wizardy]

50 minutes ago, OddOod said:

Partslist: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/OddOod/saved/#view=skbjZL pl

How are you using that with 3 gpus? I only see 2 pcie x16 slots a gpu can fit in, and one is a x4 from the chipset. 

 

Have you looked into the iommu groups on that board? I think b550 boards often put everything on one iommu group that is connected to the chipset.

 

Id probably go with x299 here, pretty good gaming performance, good amount of cores, board that are good with lots of gpus, good iommu support and lots of testing, and much cheaper than zen 2 based threadripper

[startrek03]

1 minute ago, OddOod said:

In hunting for a solution I reviewed the video and the problem was twofold. First, the pipes in the room shed too much heat because even good pipe insulation is R4 and you'd want something >R10, and recirculating the hot water through the 2nd etc PC shed a lot of heat into the room.

 

I think both issus can be sort of mitigated in your case. For better heat insulation just get more insulation. Instead of one layer enclose them with two layers and get out of the room as quick as possible. And cooling two PCs with one loop shouldn't be an issue as long as you have enough radiators on the other end. And you also have to consider that you're only running two PCs and not six or so...

[OddOod]

1 minute ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

How are you using that with 3 gpus?

I'd go with 2. My Threadripper build was run without any GPU and it had no problem.

4 minutes ago, startrek03 said:

both issus can be sort of mitigated in your case.

ish? It's a valid point. And honestly I could run two separate systems with supplemental D5s  because we're both on exterior walls. But I've never done custom water and that's a lot of $$ to both spend and risk if I fuck something up (and I will fuck something up). 

I think the fall back here is to grab an extra CPU/MB/cooler/case and separate the systems. I don't even know if I'd have to do win10 reinstalls because the fully passed through disks would allow me to essentially have pure boot drives enabled. not that reinstalling windows is an onerous task

 

 

[Electronics Wizardy]

1 minute ago, OddOod said:

I'd go with 2. My Threadripper build was run without any GPU and it had no problem.

still not gonna want to use that board, most of those won't let you passthough the bottom slot as its tied to the chipset, and all of the pcie devices connected to  the chipset. You want a board that splits the x16 from the cpu at least, but a 3rd gpu is better if you can.

 

 

[OddOod]

1 minute ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

still not gonna want to use that board

Good to know. I primarily picked it for 2.5Gb port so we both get gigabit access. I assume I should go with X series? Do you have a rec?

 

[Electronics Wizardy]

1 minute ago, OddOod said:

Good to know. I primarily picked it for 2.5Gb port so we both get gigabit access. I assume I should go with X series? Do you have a rec?

 

What is your network layout, normally your won't both be pushing the network, or if you do your limited by the isp instead, so a gigabit nic will be fine

 

Also those often have realtec nics for 2.5gbe, so id try to get one with a intel nic if you can.

 

How do you pln on doing storage? do you plan on doing pcie passthrough or virtual disks?

 

 

 

 

[OddOod]

Just now, Electronics Wizardy said:

What is your network layout, normally your won't both be pushing the network, or if you do your limited by the isp instead, so a gigabit nic will be fine

 

Also those often have realtec nics for 2.5gbe, so id try to get one with a intel nic if you can.

 

How do you plan on doing storage? do you plan on doing pcie passthrough or virtual disks?

 

 

 

 

I plan on upgrading to 10ishGb internal (two switches, linked by 10Gb, in basement 5Gb to a pair of servers, 2.5Gb to the 1 or 2 remote gaming boxes, 1Gb to some IP cams monitoring various projects. Upstairs will be 5Gb to the gaming terminals plus a 2.5Gb link to the modem which runs 1Gb to internet). Got a full fat server running mdadm as a NAS and an Unraid box primarily running plex though could add a steamcache.

 

Good to know, will def have to scan spec sheets for intel NICs because as fucky as intel is these days, they have a hell of a network team

 

Planning on passing through a whole M.2 disk to the VM. Might need to drop in some sort of cache SSD, but I've got some spares kicking aorund and 64GB should be enough for cmonitor

[Electronics Wizardy]

2 minutes ago, OddOod said:

I plan on upgrading to 10ishGb internal (two switches, linked by 10Gb, in basement 5Gb to a pair of servers, 2.5Gb to the 1 or 2 remote gaming boxes, 1Gb to some IP cams monitoring various projects. Upstairs will be 5Gb to the gaming terminals plus a 2.5Gb link to the modem which runs 1Gb to internet). Got a full fat server running mdadm as a NAS and an Unraid box primarily running plex though could add a steamcache.

 

Good to know, will def have to scan spec sheets for intel NICs because as fucky as intel is these days, they have a hell of a network team

 

Planning on passing through a whole M.2 disk to the VM. Might need to drop in some sort of cache SSD, but I've got some spares kicking aorund and 64GB should be enough for cmonitor

How bout. https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/ROG-Strix-X570-E-Gaming/ strix 570e

 

Then put your 2 gpus in, a 10gbe nic, and id put it a pcie x1 gt 710 if you need to manage it with a display.

 

m.2 pcie passthough should work aswell.

 

But really id just get 2 systems, it will end up costing about the same, have much fewer issues and be much easier to work with and setup.

 

 

[OddOod]

14 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

How bout. https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/ROG-Strix-X570-E-Gaming/ strix 570e

 

Then put your 2 gpus in, a 10gbe nic, and id put it a pcie x1 gt 710 if you need to manage it with a display.

 

m.2 pcie passthough should work aswell.

 

But really id just get 2 systems, it will end up costing about the same, have much fewer issues and be much easier to work with and setup.

 

 

Thanks! Building two separate systems will add a solid 800 to the build cost and even if my time is worth 50 an hour (which it isn't), that leaves me with a full 16 hours of fuckaround time to troubleshoot. Plus, the pure flex value isn't 0  
edit: ......as long as it works

[Electronics Wizardy]

4 minutes ago, OddOod said:

Thanks! Building two separate systems will add a solid 800 to the build cost and even if my time is worth 50 an hour (which it isn't), that leaves me with a full 16 hours of fuckaround time to troubleshoot. Plus, the pure flex value isn't 0  
edit: ......as long as it works

I don't get how it would cost you 800 more to have two builds. Here is a build with about half the storage and gpu. Still with 2 of them you would be at 4200, under your budget. 

 

PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/jdM3L2

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor  ($169.99 @ Amazon) 
Motherboard: Gigabyte B550M AORUS PRO Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard  ($129.00 @ Best Buy) 
Memory: G.Skill Trident Z RGB 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 CL18 Memory  ($91.99 @ Newegg) 
Storage: ADATA XPG SX8200 Pro 2 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive  ($239.99 @ B&H) 
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce RTX 2080 Ti 11 GB AORUS XTREME Video Card  ($1299.99 @ Best Buy) 
Case: NZXT H510 ATX Mid Tower Case  ($69.98 @ Amazon) 
Power Supply: Cooler Master MWE Gold 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  ($99.99 @ Best Buy) 
Total: $2100.93
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-08-04 21:20 EDT-0400

[OddOod]

1 minute ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

MD Ryzen 5 3600

The single threaded speed gets poleaxed by that downgrade. Honestly, if I go for separate boxes, I'd keep the processor and the cooler. I could def downgrade the MB tho.