Air vs Liquid question

[spartacus216]

Are there any air coolers that can compare to a custom loop at all in performance and noise?

[Axeonelite]

I can not speak on behalf of custom loops so if you have a reference in mind maybe you can draw a conclusion based on my experience. Running a Noctua NHD-15 on a 6700k with a CHEAP Insignia thermal paste, I was still able to achieve a mild overclock and get quiter performance under load while rendering 1080p Premiere Pro videos and Gaming (at the time a EVGA 1070) than compared to the AIO's I tried at the time, mainly the offerings from corsair during the late lifetime of the 6700k 

[Senzelian]

Depends on how custom the loop is.

Can a aircooler beat a custom loop with a 240mm radiator? Yeah.
Can a aircooler beat a custom loop with a 360mm radiator? Possibly.
Can a aircooler beat a custom loop with a 360mm and a 240mm radiator? Eh... No.

 

Edit:

But when it comes to price/performace: Screw watercooling!

[xentropa]

I think an air cooler with a 140 mm fan and at least 10 heat pipes can get you pretty close.

 

A decent 140 mm fan at 1200-1400 RPM will be barely noticeable if placed inside a case and more than 1 meter away from where you are sitting.  Noise is usually not a selling point of water cooling since you have a pump and fans to deal with.

 

I had a CPU cooler similar to the Scythe Mugen Max, and my CPU was consistently 30-35C idle and 55-60C under load.  A custom loop with a fan and radiator of similar size would probably only be 15-20% cooler than that at 10 times greater the cost.

 

 

[LIGISTX]

20 minutes ago, spartacus216 said:

Are there any air coolers that can compare to a custom loop at all in performance and noise?

It can compete at both, it can be quieter, and it can run cooler, but it can't do both....

 

I run a custom loop for 2 reasons, its fun, and for silence.

 

Is it worth the cost? Most would not define it as worth it..... I have 700+ in cooling components, but its a hobby of mine and I enjoy doing it, that has to really be at the forefront when going down the custom loop road. The reason I actually do it is for noise. At idle, only my top rad fans run and only at 650 RPM. In game load, my front rad fans and rear intake and bottom intake fans turn on, all fans at ~750 rpm. With that, in game load, my 2080 @ 2025 hits ~48-51c depending on ambient (usually low to mid 70's F) and CPU is mid 60's with a 9900k @ 5 GHz. So temps are "solid", but noise is dead silent.

[spartacus216]

2 minutes ago, LIGISTX said:

It can compete at both, it can be quieter, and it can run cooler, but it can't do both....

 

I run a custom loop for 2 reasons, its fun, and for silence.

 

Is it worth the cost? Most would not define it as worth it..... I have 700+ in cooling components, but its a hobby of mine and I enjoy doing it, that has to really be at the forefront when going down the custom loop road. The reason I actually do it is for noise. At idle, only my top rad fans run and only at 650 RPM. In game load, my front rad fans and rear intake and bottom intake fans turn on, all fans at ~750 rpm. With that, in game load, my 2080 @ 2025 hits ~48-51c depending on ambient (usually low to mid 70's F) and CPU is mid 60's with a 9900k @ 5 GHz. So temps are "solid", but noise is dead silent.

Have you ever had an issue with leaks?

 

Also, the other reason why I may go customer water cooled is for the GPU. Doesn't it make a huge difference? I'm not looking to do any crazy overclocks competitive wise like that, just a regular overclock for 24/7

[spartacus216]

Just now, spartacus216 said:

Have you ever had an issue with leaks?

 

Also, the other reason why I may go customer water cooled is for the GPU. Doesn't it make a huge difference? I'm not looking to do any crazy overclocks competitive wise like that, just a regular overclock for 24/7

Sorry, saw that you said usually 70's F just now realizing what you meant haha.

[LIGISTX]

Just now, spartacus216 said:

Have you ever had an issue with leaks?

 

Also, the other reason why I may go customer water cooled is for the GPU. Doesn't it make a huge difference? I'm not looking to do any crazy overclocks competitive wise like that, just a regular overclock for 24/7

Leaks are very very uncommon as long as you do things correctly. I have never had any leaks at all. Jayztwocents has a video showing how much PSI a loop can take, and its A LOT.

 

Also, yes there is a big temp difference for the GPU. But no, it really doesn't matter. There is a huge amount of obsession about running things cool, but really there is no need, not to the extend a lot of forum posts make it seem. Also, what GPU do you have? Remember, custom loops cost A LOT, a GPU block is ~120+, CPU block is 80+, each rad is ~90+, I have ~120 in fittings alone.... pump and res are ~150. Unless you have a 2080 super or higher, spend that money on better hardware, not cooling upgrades. Running a GPU at 50c like my loop allows vs with its air cooler at ~75c, the card will last the same length of time, and will run at about the same speed, maybe instead of 2025 it would boost down to 2000 which wouldn't be noticeable at all.

 

TLDR; custom loops make sense when you already have spend the money on the best hardware out there, and just want to go the extra mile for fun or for noise. Now, if noise is 100% a concern, then sure, by all means a custom loop is a good way to go. But, I would just say turn your GPU and CPU/case fans down, let things run a little warmer, and it will likely be fine :). Just depends on what your after.

[spartacus216]

1 minute ago, LIGISTX said:

Leaks are very very uncommon as long as you do things correctly. I have never had any leaks at all. Jayztwocents has a video showing how much PSI a loop can take, and its A LOT.

 

Also, yes there is a big temp difference for the GPU. But no, it really doesn't matter. There is a huge amount of obsession about running things cool, but really there is no need, not to the extend a lot of forum posts make it seem. Also, what GPU do you have? Remember, custom loops cost A LOT, a GPU block is ~120+, CPU block is 80+, each rad is ~90+, I have ~120 in fittings alone.... pump and res are ~150. Unless you have a 2080 super or higher, spend that money on better hardware, not cooling upgrades. Running a GPU at 50c like my loop allows vs with its air cooler at ~75c, the card will last the same length of time, and will run at about the same speed, maybe instead of 2025 it would boost down to 2000 which wouldn't be noticeable at all.

 

TLDR; custom loops make sense when you already have spend the money on the best hardware out there, and just want to go the extra mile for fun or for noise. Now, if noise is 100% a concern, then sure, by all means a custom loop is a good way to go. But, I would just say turn your GPU and CPU/case fans down, let things run a little warmer, and it will likely be fine :). Just depends on what your after.

I have a 2080 SUPER and a 10900k on the way.

 

Now what about swapping out parts??  ..because I like to upgrade to the latest thing all the time haha.

 

I could buy a 2080 ti... but why and the new 3080s come out later this year.

 

 

 

[xentropa]

8 minutes ago, spartacus216 said:

I have a 2080 SUPER and a 10900k on the way.

 

Now what about swapping out parts??  ..because I like to upgrade to the latest thing all the time haha.

 

I could buy a 2080 ti... but why and the new 3080s come out later this year.

 

 

 

CPU water blocks are cross generation compatible.  Full GPU blocks unfortunately are not since the board layout is usually going to be different.

[spartacus216]

4 minutes ago, xentropa said:

CPU water blocks are cross generation compatible.  Full GPU blocks unfortunately are not since the board layout is usually going to be different.

Oh what I mean is the difficulty in swapping parts out in a hardline system? You have to drain it every time and doesn't that take several days to do correctly each time?

[LIGISTX]

16 minutes ago, spartacus216 said:

Oh what I mean is the difficulty in swapping parts out in a hardline system? You have to drain it every time and doesn't that take several days to do correctly each time?

Draining the system takes ~10 minutes, pulling tubes and stuff takes another 10. It always seems like a huge deal, and I always build it up to be some stupid long process I don't want to do, but its really not that bad. Remember rule number 1) be passionate about it

[spartacus216]

7 minutes ago, LIGISTX said:

Draining the system takes ~10 minutes, pulling tubes and stuff takes another 10. It always seems like a huge deal, and I always build it up to be some stupid long process I don't want to do, but its really not that bad. Remember rule number 1) be passionate about it

oh, when you pull the tubes to replace the component, lets say the cpu, then do you air pressure test it once you put it back together or just pray that it's all in right afterwards to refill? Can you save the same fluid to reuse it if it's not old?

 

Thank you for answering all my questions, you're helping me out a lot.

 

I was at the point I needed to replace my AIO and instead of spending 200+ dollars on a new one I was contemplating just doing custom loop.

[LIGISTX]

7 minutes ago, spartacus216 said:

oh, when you pull the tubes to replace the component, lets say the cpu, then do you air pressure test it once you put it back together or just pray that it's all in right afterwards to refill? Can you save the same fluid to reuse it if it's not old?

 

Thank you for answering all my questions, you're helping me out a lot.

 

I was at the point I needed to replace my AIO and instead of spending 200+ dollars on a new one I was contemplating just doing custom loop.

I never air test it, I just leak test... One of these days ill buy an air pressure tester.

 

I have a spare PSU with a jumper block, run the pump (and at least 1 fan, depending on rad space, I don't use a fan but I have plenty of rad space to keep the water from getting hot from the pump) for a couple hours to make sure nothing leaks. I never reuse fluid but I run distilled water, so its ~50 cents to fill my loop back up. I run distilled water and a silver kill coil, and a single small drop of dawn dish soap mixed into a gallon of the distilled water. The little soap can help get bubbles to break down faster in the loop, but seriously, just a small drop.

 

Then bleeding the system, just tip it over in a lot of different directions to help get the bubbles out of the blocks and rads. It takes maybe 20 mins of tilting it, letting it sit pump running, turning pump on and off, more tilting etc to get it all bled.

[spartacus216]

6 minutes ago, LIGISTX said:

I never air test it, I just leak test... One of these days ill buy an air pressure tester.

 

I have a spare PSU with a jumper block, run the pump (and at least 1 fan, depending on rad space, I don't use a fan but I have plenty of rad space to keep the water from getting hot from the pump) for a couple hours to make sure nothing leaks. I never reuse fluid but I run distilled water, so its ~50 cents to fill my loop back up. I run distilled water and a silver kill coil, and a single small drop of dawn dish soap mixed into a gallon of the distilled water. The little soap can help get bubbles to break down faster in the loop, but seriously, just a small drop.

 

Then bleeding the system, just tip it over in a lot of different directions to help get the bubbles out of the blocks and rads. It takes maybe 20 mins of tilting it, letting it sit pump running, turning pump on and off, more tilting etc to get it all bled.

Oh I've never heard of a silver kill coil before. I have some clear fluid from EK. If I drain it CAN I reuse the same fluid? Is there any harm it doing that?

[LIGISTX]

40 minutes ago, spartacus216 said:

Oh I've never heard of a silver kill coil before. I have some clear fluid from EK. If I drain it CAN I reuse the same fluid? Is there any harm it doing that?

Yea silver is a natural bio inhibitor, so that works pretty well. They are small and cheap, I just shove it in one of my tubes, but I am using white soft tubes, so you can't see whats inside.

 

You can use the fluid as long as it doesn't anything growing in it...

[xentropa]

3 hours ago, spartacus216 said:

Oh what I mean is the difficulty in swapping parts out in a hardline system? You have to drain it every time and doesn't that take several days to do correctly each time?

It wont take time if you do it correctly.

 

I guess the main concern is getting all the water out before disassembling the loop if u dont want to get water everywhere.  Drains and valves can help you clean out your loop easier. 

 

Some tips are:

 

Drain valves should always be at the lowest point of the loop, if you mount a radiator upright, positioning the fittings downward will help draining easier as compared to upward, avoid "pipe valleys" etc etc.  otherwise invest in a vacuum pump with a liquid trap.