High Budget Animation System For 2021: Cinema4D, Octane & X-Particles

[BLSmith2112]

Hey guys,

 

Purpose of this thread:

• Build a high end Cinema4D/Octane/X-Partices animation system capable of single machine rendering/particle caching as fast as possible. 
• Budget: Open. Range is $3000-$10,000, can go higher if price to performance is justified. 
• Region: USA, Milwaukee Wisconsin.
• Airflow and Overclock: Air cooled only, no water and no overclocking due to IT department constraints. 
• Learn about near future hardware and how I might want to wait rather than build one now. 

I make stuff like this (one of my projects): 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMCfZL9HgSk

 

I do these solo and they take me forever both on the "I don't know what I'm doing front," and on the rendering/caching front. My manager might be asking if I need to upgrade my system and/or software sometime in the next 12 months. The problem is, I don't know a lot about what hardware (and to some extent, software) I need, or if newer hardware is even worth it.

 

My current hardware:

• OS: Windows 64bit
• CPU: Intel i7-6900K @ 3.2 GHz
• RAM: 128GB
• SSD: M2 EVO 970 2TB
• GPU1: Nvidia Quadro M5000
• GPU2: Nvidia Quadro M5000
• GPU3: Nvidia GTX 1080

My current software:

• Cinema4D R19
• PolyTrans64
• PolyTrans64 PTC Granite
• X-Particles 4
• Octane
• Premiere Pro CC
• After Effects CC
• Photoshop CC

For research, I recently watched two of LTT's videos on this topic:

• https://youtu.be/G-90qEJAVkU
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EcMKg7awXg

Key takeaways: 

• Video 1: Granted, the focus of the first video is all about CAD software (I do not use CAD software), it looks like the Quadro's do a great job at performance over the gaming cards. Nothing modern for me to look at that I've seen though as far as comparisons go. Nvidia's website has over a dozen cards to choose from. Plus, with me likely coming into this next year and with Nvidia's 3000 lineup coming, unsure what I ultimately should be focused on. 
• Video 1: Graphic's cards in SLI in programs such as Solidworks (as shown in first video) does not benefit. That being said, Octane in Cinema4D does use all the cards. However, I am unsure if X-Particles does and this is a very important piece of my workflow. This first video from 2018 lands @ the P6000 for best single card performance. 
• Video 1: Linus says in the first video single core performance is king, but again, focus on that video is CAD software (eg softworks) as opposed to animation software (eg Cinema4D) and I am unsure if that is what I should be focused on. He mentions the core count is important when it comes to rendering, which is important for me because my renders sometimes take 36 hours for a 20 second animation - would really like to get that under 12.

 

• Video 2: Looks like the RTX 8000 is what I'd be looking for if I purchased one today. 

 

My current workflow is as follows:

1. I am asked by a member of specific departmental management team to animate a particular product we have.
2. I reach out to an engineer in the respective department to provide me the CAD file. They use a program called CREO or ProEngineer. They typically provide those to me in STP file-types. 
3. I import those STP files into a program called "PolyTrans64" using their "PTC Granite" Plugin to convert them to .C4D files with a 0.060 quality ratio. Typical assembly count can reach as high as 1800 and the converted C4D files can reach 1.8GB. I do not know if this is the best approach, because the wireframes look like a mess, but the final product often looks nice. See image: (Octane Renderer). 
4. I then spend forever organizing the 1,800 objects into null folders, then texturing those objects using textures downloaded from Polligon (because I'll never understand texture creation myself). 
5. I then have the managers write me a script, I put it into a script template, and I get to work on animating fluids/gasses/explosions first, then mechanical movements, then render drafts.   
6. Frankly as an aside if anyones good at these programs/plugins and are available for private tutoring sessions, please email me @ Smith.Brandon@basco.com. 

TLDR: I am looking for a high end animation system in Cinema4D/Octane/X-Particles that renders faster, caches faster, and performs better when viewing 2,000 part animation files while simultaneously running ~5,000 particles within the program, and this system will be purchased sometime in the next 12 months and could use your advice. 

 

Thanks guys. 

 

[Entropy.]

7 minutes ago, BLSmith2112 said:

Hey guys.

 

Purpose of this thread:

• Build a high end animation system capable of single machine rendering as fast as possible. 
• Learn about near future hardware and how I might want to wait rather than build one now. 

I make stuff like this (one of my projects): 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMCfZL9HgSk

 

I do these solo and they take me forever both on the "I don't know what I'm doing front," and on the rendering/caching front. My manager might be asking if I need to upgrade my system and/or software sometime in the next 12 months. The problem is, I don't know a lot about what hardware (and to some extent, software) I need, or if newer hardware is even worth it.

 

My current hardware:

• OS: Windows 64bit
• CPU: Intel i7-6900K @ 3.2 GHz
• RAM: 128GB
• SSD: M2 EVO 970 2TB
• GPU1: Nvidia Quadro M5000
• GPU2: Nvidia Quadro M5000
• GPU3: Nvidia GTX 1080

My current software:

• Cinema4D R19
• PolyTrans64
• PolyTrans64 PTC Granite
• X-Particles 4
• Octane
• Premiere Pro CC
• After Effects CC
• Photoshop CC

For research, I recently watched two of LTT's videos on this topic:

• https://youtu.be/G-90qEJAVkU
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EcMKg7awXg

Key takeaways: 

• Video 1: Granted, the focus of the first video is all about CAD software (I do not use CAD software), it looks like the Quadro's do a great job at performance over the gaming cards. Nothing modern for me to look at that I've seen though as far as comparisons go. Nvidia's website has over a dozen cards to choose from. Plus, with me likely coming into this next year and with Nvidia's 3000 lineup coming, unsure what I ultimately should be focused on. 
• Video 1: Graphic's cards in SLI in programs such as Solidworks (as shown in first video) does not benefit. That being said, Octane in Cinema4D does use all the cards. However, I am unsure if X-Particles does and this is a very important piece of my workflow. This first video from 2018 lands @ the P6000 for best single card performance. 
• Video 1: Linus says in the first video single core performance is king, but again, focus on that video is CAD software (eg softworks) as opposed to animation software (eg Cinema4D) and I am unsure if that is what I should be focused on. He mentions the core count is important when it comes to rendering, which is important for me because my renders sometimes take 36 hours for a 20 second animation - would really like to get that under 12.

 

• Video 2: Looks like the RTX 8000 is what I'd be looking for if I purchased one today. 

 

My current workflow is as follows:

1. I am asked by a member of specific departmental management team to animate a particular product we have.
2. I reach out to an engineer in the respective department to provide me the CAD file. They use a program called CREO or ProEngineer. They typically provide those to me in STP file-types. 
3. I import those STP files into a program called "PolyTrans64" using their "PTC Granite" Plugin to convert them to .C4D files with a 0.060 quality ratio. Typical assembly count can reach as high as 1800 and the converted C4D files can reach 1.8GB. I do not know if this is the best approach, because the wireframes look like a mess, but the final product often looks nice. See image: (Octane Renderer). 
4. I then spend forever organizing the 1,800 objects into null folders, then texturing those objects using textures downloaded from Polligon (because I'll never understand texture creation myself). 
5. I then have the managers write me a script, I put it into a script template, and I get to work on animating fluids/gasses/explosions first, then mechanical movements, then render drafts.   
6. Frankly as an aside if anyones good at these programs/plugins and are available for private tutoring sessions, please email me @ Smith.Brandon@basco.com. 

TLDR: I am looking for a high end animation system in Cinema4D/Octane/X-Particles that renders faster, caches faster, and performs better when viewing 2,000 part animation files while simultaneously running ~5,000 particles within the program, and this system will be purchased sometime in the next 12 months and could use your advice. 

 

Thanks guys. 

 

budget? region? right off the bat if you want to do it late 2020/early 2021 I can tell you to get the 4990x (likely the succesor to the 3990x), or 3970x with a custom loop, 360 or 480mm aio or air cooler depending on how much youd want to overclock, if at all, and a Quadro 8000 (or a few (or its sucessor)), maybe like 4/6/8tb of nvme storage and x amount of sata ssd if you need it, but I all boils down to a few things. If we can figure out a few more things we could possibly do a mor ecomplete build. By "we" I mean you, me, and anybody that happens to feel like correcting me/you.

[BLSmith2112]

I've updated original post with the following information: 

 

Budget:

• I mentioned "high" but wasn't specific enough. I've updated original post to reflect as low as $3,000 but up to $10,000.

Region:

• As my siguature states I'm from Milwaukee Wisconsin, but I'll reflect that in the post for where the system will be located. 

Airflow:

• We'll be sticking to air cooled no water, our IT department won't allow that. Updated main post to reflect this. 

7 minutes ago, Brok3n But who cares? said:

360 or 480mm aio or air cooler depending on how much youd want to overclock

Overclock:

• No overclock, another IT issue. Updated original post to reflect this. 

7 minutes ago, Brok3n But who cares? said:

maybe like 4/6/8tb of nvme storage and x amount of sata ssd if you need it

Storage:

• I should have been more specific, my current setup has 2TB NVME storage. All projects get archived on our unlimited Google Drive when a project is done. All software is installed on this drive. If this is good enough, I'll just transfer it between systems. 

GPU: 

8 minutes ago, Brok3n But who cares? said:

Quadro 8000 (or a few (or its sucessor))

  Are we expecting a successor in the next 12 months?

[Entropy.]

13 minutes ago, BLSmith2112 said:

I've updated original post with the following information: 

 

Budget:

• I mentioned "high" but wasn't specific enough. I've updated original post to reflect as low as $3,000 but up to $10,000.

Region:

• As my siguature states I'm from Milwaukee Wisconsin, but I'll reflect that in the post for where the system will be located. 

Airflow:

• We'll be sticking to air cooled no water, our IT department won't allow that. Updated main post to reflect this. 

Overclock:

• No overclock, another IT issue. Updated original post to reflect this. 

Storage:

• I should have been more specific, my current setup has 2TB NVME storage. All projects get archived on our unlimited Google Drive when a project is done. All software is installed on this drive. If this is good enough, I'll just transfer it between systems. 

GPU: 

  Are we expecting a successor in the next 12 months?

I'm not to sure about the GPU, but there may be. Oh, and sorry, I'm an idiot I didn't realize you had your location in yoru signature. For the CPU, It looks like the 3990x/4990x could be a solid option, along with a specilized cooler for the chip. Without oc'ing, Threadrippers are pretty cool. But they get Very hot very quickly after even a slight oc. 

[Mateyyy]

PCPartPicker Part List

Type	Item	Price
CPU	AMD Threadripper 3970X 3.7 GHz 32-Core Processor	$1899.99 @ Amazon
CPU Cooler	Noctua NH-U14S TR4-SP3 82.52 CFM CPU Cooler	$79.90 @ Amazon
Motherboard	MSI Creator TRX40 EATX sTRX4 Motherboard	$677.06 @ Amazon
Memory	G.Skill Ripjaws V 256 GB (8 x 32 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory	$1179.99 @ Newegg
Storage	Sabrent Rocket 2 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive	$279.98 @ Amazon
Video Card	PNY Quadro RTX 8000 48 GB Video Card	$5529.00 @ Amazon
Case	be quiet! Silent Base 601 ATX Mid Tower Case	$139.90 @ B&H
Power Supply	be quiet! Dark Power Pro 11 1000 W 80+ Platinum Certified Semi-modular ATX Power Supply	$239.90 @ B&H
	Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
	Total	$10025.72
	Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-05-01 19:55 EDT-0400

Cinema 4D loves threads, Premiere will benefit too to an extent, but regarding the graphics card I've got to admit that I don't really know personally whether something like the RTX 8000 is necessary for your particular workflow, as I don't have a lot of experience with Quadro.

Also, if you also plan on adding some of the cards from your current system in, you might want to bump the PSU up to something like an AX1600i.

[Grabhanem]

Right now, the 3990X is, hands down, the best CPU for rendering. It's not cheap at $4K, but also not crazy given that a server CPU of the same class is around $7K. You could wait on 4th gen Threadripper, but given the delay on 3rd gen I doubt they'll be out within a year.

 

GPU wise, from brief reading it seems Octane will happily use multiple cards, Cinema4D doesn't like GPUs at all, and XParticles only uses a single card. According to a random blog post with little data to back it up and some better data from Puget Systems, Quadros aren't really necessary for your use case as their compute performance is about on par with Geforce equivalents, just with better drivers. Technically the Titan V is the best consumer compute card, followed by the Titan RTX, but they don't offer much performance benefit over a 2080Ti, and certainly not $2000 worth.

 

Here's the ultimate overkill murder-any-workload-in-cold-blood configuration for the top end of your budget range:

PCPartPicker Part List

Type	Item	Price
CPU	AMD Threadripper 3990X 2.9 GHz 64-Core Processor	$3699.99 @ Amazon
CPU Cooler	Noctua NH-U14S TR4-SP3 82.52 CFM CPU Cooler	$79.90 @ Amazon
Motherboard	Gigabyte TRX40 DESIGNARE XL ATX sTRX4 Motherboard	$629.00 @ B&H
Memory	G.Skill Trident Z Neo 128 GB (4 x 32 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory	$689.99 @ Newegg
Storage	Corsair MP600 Force Series Gen4 2 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive	$389.99 @ Best Buy
Video Card	Asus GeForce RTX 2080 Ti 11 GB Turbo Video Card (2-Way SLI)	$2200.00
Video Card	Asus GeForce RTX 2080 Ti 11 GB Turbo Video Card (2-Way SLI)	$1106.76 @ B&H
Case	Fractal Design Define XL R2 (Black Pearl) ATX Full Tower Case
Power Supply	Corsair 1600 W 80+ Titanium Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply	$531.49 @ Amazon
Case Fan	Noctua NF-A15 PWM 140 mm Fan	$30.99 @ Newegg
Case Fan	Noctua NF-A14 PWM 82.5 CFM 140 mm Fan	$21.95 @ Amazon
Case Fan	Noctua NF-A14 PWM 82.5 CFM 140 mm Fan	$21.95 @ Amazon
Case Fan	Noctua NF-A14 PWM 82.5 CFM 140 mm Fan	$21.95 @ Amazon
Case Fan	Noctua NF-A14 PWM 82.5 CFM 140 mm Fan	$21.95 @ Amazon
	Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
	Total	$9445.91
	Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-05-01 20:06 EDT-0400

A couple considerations if you want to go with this config--

- Ignore what PCPartpicker says about 2-way SLI, those are 3x 2080Tis with pricing adjusted to match. This setup has space for a 4th if you wish.

- The A15 fan is for push/pull on the CPU cooler.

- I don't know if the case is just out of stock or not made anymore-- you might need to find a different option

- Definitely find a case with support for a side panel intake fan, as your many GPUs will run pretty hot otherwise.

[brob]

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Threadripper 3970X 3.7 GHz 32-Core Processor  ($1899.99 @ Amazon) 
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U14S TR4-SP3 82.52 CFM CPU Cooler  ($79.90 @ Amazon) 
Motherboard: Asus Prime TRX40-Pro ATX sTRX4 Motherboard  ($449.99 @ Amazon) 
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 128 GB (4 x 32 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory  ($739.99 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Sabrent Rocket 4.0 2 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive  ($399.98 @ Amazon) 
Video Card: PNY Quadro RTX 8000 48 GB Video Card  ($5529.00 @ Amazon) 
Case: Fractal Design Define 7 ATX Mid Tower Case  ($159.99 @ Walmart) 
Power Supply: SeaSonic PRIME 1000 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  ($218.98 @ Newegg) 
Total: $9477.82
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-05-01 20:22 EDT-0400

[BLSmith2112]

Thanks guys for the tips. 

 

CPU: Looking like IF the 4990x is out next year around this time I'll request that. That being said if it’s not ready we’ll stick with requesting 3900x, and if that doesn’t fly with management we’ll request the 3970x.

 

GPU: 

• X-Particles: Thanks for letting me know about it using only a single GPU, that helps narrow down the options because I really suffer when using the plugin due to low performance. 

• Octane has a nice little display while using it that shows how many cards it sees and what performance it’s drawing from each card. 

• Card: Yeah I wish there was performance comparisons between a 2080TI and a RTX 8000 for example, especially with X-Particles, having multiple cards will help with rendering, but that single card needs to be uber powerful for X-Particles (primarily for simulating explosions). But like your saying, if price to performance isn’t justified, I can really get a lot of efficiency for three 2080TIs and keep the overall price un-bloated for a single digit performance gain and I benefit from having 3 of them. 

[brob]

A year from now you will have reevaluate all cpu, both Intel and AMD. I will be quite surprised if AMD continues its significant lead in this type of work.I

 

If you depend on software support you may want to check the terms. Some companies will only provide support when the hardware is on its qvl for the package. GPU in particular may have such a restriction.

[Grabhanem]

3 hours ago, BLSmith2112 said:

Thanks guys for the tips. 

 

CPU: Looking like IF the 4990x is out next year around this time I'll request that. That being said if it’s not ready we’ll stick with requesting 3900x, and if that doesn’t fly with management we’ll request the 3970x.

 

GPU: 

• X-Particles: Thanks for letting me know about it using only a single GPU, that helps narrow down the options because I really suffer when using the plugin due to low performance. 

• Octane has a nice little display while using it that shows how many cards it sees and what performance it’s drawing from each card. 

• Card: Yeah I wish there was performance comparisons between a 2080TI and a RTX 8000 for example, especially with X-Particles, having multiple cards will help with rendering, but that single card needs to be uber powerful for X-Particles (primarily for simulating explosions). But like your saying, if price to performance isn’t justified, I can really get a lot of efficiency for three 2080TIs and keep the overall price un-bloated for a single digit performance gain and I benefit from having 3 of them. 

From what I'm seeing the RTX8000 isn't actually much more powerful than a 2080ti-- it's really just a titan RTX with extra VRAM. Puget actually saw a disadvantage from Quadros vs. Geforce in Octane a while ago-- the M4000 tested is the same core GPU as a 970:

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Octane-Render-GPU-Performance-Comparison-790/

 

If you wanted a more powerful single card the Titan RTX might be an option, but since it's not available as a blower card your multi-GPU options would be a bit limited, and while it would be slightly better in X-Particles, it wouldn't touch dual 2080Ti's in Octane, which are essentially the same price.

[brob]

One reason to consider a Quadro might be vram. GTX generally have significantly less memory.

[BLSmith2112]

On 5/2/2020 at 1:13 PM, brob said:

A year from now you will have reevaluate all cpu, both Intel and AMD. I will be quite surprised if AMD continues its significant lead in this type of work.I

Understood. I'll revisit the forum here in a year and do additional research in the meantime. 

On 5/2/2020 at 1:13 PM, brob said:

If you depend on software support you may want to check the terms. Some companies will only provide support when the hardware is on its qvl for the package. GPU in particular may have such a restriction.

Interesting point. After some research, I learned "OctaneRender requires a CUDA-enabled NVIDIA video card to render" so no matter what, in a year I'll be needing an Nvidia based GPU. Additional research will be required a year from now depending on the software we are using. 

 

On 5/2/2020 at 2:23 PM, Grabhanem said:

From what I'm seeing the RTX8000 isn't actually much more powerful than a 2080ti-- it's really just a titan RTX with extra VRAM. Puget actually saw a disadvantage from Quadros vs. Geforce in Octane a while ago-- the M4000 tested is the same core GPU as a 970:

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Octane-Render-GPU-Performance-Comparison-790/

Thanks for this link I'd not seen this before! Interesting points made in the post. The summation seems to point to: Focus on having multiple cards rather than one uber powerful card, and Quadro's aren't particularly powerful for Octane's purposes. However, X-Particles heavily relies on one graphics card so perhaps one higher performing Quadro card with 2 GTX cards to help Octane. 

On 5/2/2020 at 3:14 PM, brob said:

One reason to consider a Quadro might be vram. GTX generally have significantly less memory.

At least based on @Grabhanem's link it seems Quadro isn't particularly useful in Octane, but I might want to consider a Quadro for my primary for X-Particles and then perhaps two GTX cards to help with Octane. 

[Grabhanem]

3 hours ago, BLSmith2112 said:

Understood. I'll revisit the forum here in a year and do additional research in the meantime. 

Interesting point. After some research, I learned "OctaneRender requires a CUDA-enabled NVIDIA video card to render" so no matter what, in a year I'll be needing an Nvidia based GPU. Additional research will be required a year from now depending on the software we are using. 

 

Thanks for this link I'd not seen this before! Interesting points made in the post. The summation seems to point to: Focus on having multiple cards rather than one uber powerful card, and Quadro's aren't particularly powerful for Octane's purposes. However, X-Particles heavily relies on one graphics card so perhaps one higher performing Quadro card with 2 GTX cards to help Octane. 

At least based on @Grabhanem's link it seems Quadro isn't particularly useful in Octane, but I might want to consider a Quadro for my primary for X-Particles and then perhaps two GTX cards to help with Octane. 

You could consider a titan RTX and dual 2080ti's if you wanted a bit more single-card power-- I wouldn't go titan+3x2080ti though as open-air cards like the titan really need an open slot below them to run well.

 

Unless you know you'll be needing 48GB of vram, the rtx8000 really isn't worth it-- the 6000, 8000, and titan are all the same GPU core, and if I remember right the 5000 is just a 2080Ti.

 

An updated list with that GPU configuration: (slightly over budget, but prices will probably come down by then. I also didn't catch that you had an SSD already, so this build doesn't include one)

PCPartPicker Part List

Type	Item	Price
CPU	AMD Threadripper 3990X 2.9 GHz 64-Core Processor	$3699.99 @ Amazon
CPU Cooler	Noctua NH-U14S TR4-SP3 82.52 CFM CPU Cooler	$79.90 @ Amazon
Motherboard	MSI TRX40 PRO 10G ATX sTRX4 Motherboard	$459.99 @ Amazon
Memory	G.Skill Trident Z Neo 128 GB (4 x 32 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory	$689.99 @ Newegg
Video Card	Asus GeForce RTX 2080 Ti 11 GB Turbo Video Card (2-Way SLI)	$1106.76 @ B&H
Video Card	Asus GeForce RTX 2080 Ti 11 GB Turbo Video Card (2-Way SLI)	$1106.76 @ B&H
Case	Corsair Air 540 ATX Mid Tower Case	$208.99 @ Amazon
Power Supply	Corsair HX Platinum 1200 W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply	$255.93 @ Newegg
Case Fan	Noctua NF-A15 PWM 140 mm Fan	$26.99 @ Newegg
Custom	Titan RTX	$2500.00
	Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts
	Total	$10135.30
	Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-05-04 21:58 EDT-0400

 

[BLSmith2112]

I should add, /thread.

 

Thanks all for your excellent help.