Idea: Swappable LPDDR5 SM Ram Card slot ?

[mrbunnylamakins]

Seeing that we are closer and closer to having our Cell phone replace our PC at home. How about making a swappable LPDDR5 SM Ram Card slot ? Where a cell phone user can replace a 4GB LPDDR5 chip with a 8,12 or 16GB LPDDR5 chip via a NEWLY CREATED "Secure Memory Ram Card" Yes I know there has to be more contact points for Memory than typical SD Cards. But I really think this can be done.

 

Also I feel that that one day Phones with have a Base model (Frame and internals) where the screen can be replaced and or Upgraded. Also the same with the Camera on the back. "Semi Modular". A new back plate of course to go along with the camera lens configuration upgrade.

[Tristerin]

So a tablet - until we can shrink things further, I do not ever see a phone replacing my PC for work or gaming.

[Kilrah]

On phones memory is often implemented as stacked dies either with the flash or the CPU for space savings... don't expect modular memory anytime soon.

There have been a few attempts at modular mobile devices, but they've never been successful. 

[mariushm]

No, it's stupid idea.

* the ram chip(s) has to be super close to the cpu, to keep the traces between the ram pins and the cpu pins short and keep power consumption low.

* the traces between cpu and ram chip have to be length match... 2 traces at a time must have same length, with a precision of under 0.1mm ... if you invent a connector or slot you'll basically have different lengths of traces on the stick/card so you'll have to put some longer traces and some shorter traces on the phone circuit board so that the two lengths of each trace end up the same length.... those longer traces have to be routed somewhere on the circuit board, so they'll use valuable "real estate" that can be used for something else.

* a pressure socket/slot would not work well, as chips have 100+ pins, if one of them doesn't make good contact it won't work. A connector (like m.2) is too big and uses too much space

* ram chips are super esd sensitive... touch the pins/pads with your fingers and you risk zapping it.  So the chips would be expensive, because maybe 10-20% would be dead on arrival and returned because users are too dumb and they'll damage them before installing them.

* very few people will actually choose to upgrade just the memory ... let's say 10% of people at most. The memory chips are expensive,,, maybe 30-50$ when manufactured... by the time the end up on shelves, because of low sale volume and being such niche product you would end up with 100$+ ram upgrade module... for a phone that may be 2-300$

 

then you have circuit boards super optimized for power consumption where the circuit board and the voltage regulators on them may not even be able to give the extra current required for a 8 gb chip or a 12-16 gb chip ... it would be silly to design a 1w dc-dc converter to power ram, when 90% of the people will never upgrade and the chips only consume 0.2w

 

 

 

[mrbunnylamakins]

8 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

On phones memory is often implemented as stacked dies either with the flash or the CPU for space savings... don't expect modular memory anytime soon.

There have been a few attempts at modular mobile devices, but they've never been successful. 

You mean the lego looking phones with slide together components... eek.

[mrbunnylamakins]

3 minutes ago, mariushm said:

No, it's stupid idea.

* the ram chip(s) has to be super close to the cpu, to keep the traces between the ram pins and the cpu pins short and keep power consumption low.

* the traces between cpu and ram chip have to be length match... 2 traces at a time must have same length, with a precision of under 0.1mm ... if you invent a connector or slot you'll basically have different lengths of traces on the stick/card so you'll have to put some longer traces and some shorter traces on the phone circuit board so that the two lengths of each trace end up the same length.... those longer traces have to be routed somewhere on the circuit board, so they'll use valuable "real estate" that can be used for something else.

* a pressure socket/slot would not work well, as chips have 100+ pins, if one of them doesn't make good contact it won't work. A connector (like m.2) is too big and uses too much space

* ram chips are super esd sensitive... touch the pins/pads with your fingers and you risk zapping it.  So the chips would be expensive, because maybe 10-20% would be dead on arrival and returned because users are too dumb and they'll damage them before installing them.

* very few people will actually choose to upgrade just the memory ... let's say 10% of people at most. The memory chips are expensive,,, maybe 30-50$ when manufactured... by the time the end up on shelves, because of low sale volume and being such niche product you would end up with 100$+ ram upgrade module... for a phone that may be 2-300$

 

then you have circuit boards super optimized for power consumption where the circuit board and the voltage regulators on them may not even be able to give the extra current required for a 8 gb chip or a 12-16 gb chip ... it would be silly to design a 1w dc-dc converter to power ram, when 90% of the people will never upgrade and the chips only consume 0.2w

 

 

 

• Stupid to you, I sure If I told you many of the tech advances we made today back 20 years ago a similar repose might be given.... 

 

•"First spotted by German website 3DCenter.org, the listing says that Micron charges $11.69 per GB for 2000 1GB modules of 14Gbps GDDR6, while they charge just $6.84 for the equivalent 8Gbps GDDR5 modules.Jan 6, 2019 " People spend hundreds on the Memory for their pc...

• I, years ago (2006ish) , I drew up a picture I sent to Apple Feedback for a Sliding Dual Touch Screen and  or a "Apple Back Pack", MANY people told me having a second screen was stupid, that was before Apple added a Selfie Camera.(even drew it with I.R. before Bluetooth)

 

[mrbunnylamakins]

3 hours ago, Tristerin said:

So a tablet - until we can shrink things further, I do not ever see a phone replacing my PC for work or gaming.

My mom didn't care for a tablet thought they were stupid till she got one. Now she has 3 different Tablets and rarely ever touches her pc. I am not fully saying it will 100% replace, but they already making several models of phones that has a dock which a monitor and keyboard and mouse can hook up to using your phone as a pc.

[Tristerin]

10 minutes ago, mrbunnylamakins said:

My mom didn't care for a tablet thought they were stupid till she got one. Now she has 3 different Tablets and rarely ever touches her pc. I am not fully saying it will 100% replace, but they already making several models of phones that has a dock which a monitor and keyboard and mouse can hook up to using your phone as a pc.

And do the calculations I do for work?  Hardly and never.  The calculations take ~5 minutes on an i5 6600.  9 seconds on my Xeon 2276M, 10 seconds on an i7 9750H.  If what you do on a PC isn't intensive, sure a phone can replace as a basic web browsing, youtubing, netflixing capable item.

 

 

[mrbunnylamakins]

4 hours ago, Tristerin said:

So a tablet - until we can shrink things further, I do not ever see a phone replacing my PC for work or gaming.

New Surface Duo – Coming Holiday 2020 – Microsoft Surface
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-duo

[Tristerin]

7 minutes ago, mrbunnylamakins said:

New Surface Duo – Coming Holiday 2020 – Microsoft Surface
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-duo

So an android device that was debuted with a Snapdragon 855 (see also, not good enough for heavy calculations in a world that moves every second) with the intent to use Qualcomms latest and greatest - if they have one - when this version comes out.  

 

Still not interested.  Its Android, not X86, and not powerful enough.  My 2 copper coins.  

 

Would be great for people who don't need actual productivity.

[mrbunnylamakins]

28 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

So an android device that was debuted with a Snapdragon 855 (see also, not good enough for heavy calculations in a world that moves every second) with the intent to use Qualcomms latest and greatest - if they have one - when this version comes out.  

 

Still not interested.  Its Android, not X86, and not powerful enough.  My 2 copper coins.  

 

Would be great for people who don't need actual productivity.

My Bad, I did not post that to for a Replacement for Working / Gaming pcs. Posted it as a point... and they have out with Gaming Cell Phones. .. Issue is you are thinking about NOW what is out Now. I was thinking in the soon to be future. Your looking a Original iPhone CPU Speed: 400 MHz and 128 MB of Ram and thinking "Not Possible!", Many people back then could not fathom a iPhone 11 CPU Speed: up to 2.65 GHz with 4 GB Memory. Samsung LPDDR 5 16GB mobile DRAM.....

Yet we see as technology improves and gets smaller many people looking towards device that will replace carrying several things around. Like when cellphone Cameras got way better, people starting saying "Who Carries a Point And Shoot Cameras around anymore? " or " Who Needs a 4 Core Processor In their Cellphone?" (Now they are making 12 core), "Who Needs 64GB of space on their Cell Phones?", "Who Needs 1 TB SD Card?", "Who wants to see 4K Video?, let alone Watch on their cell phones?" Now 8K Video, "Who wants a folding screen CellPhone/Tablet/Laptop, you seen how bad they are?"  Yet people told the Wright Brothers.."Your Crazy, people are not meant to fly" Many people over the years ridiculed ideas of others and I could point out thousands of things that had shaky starts. Look at self driving cars and the amount of negative feedback on that. Gene Roddenberry and Star Trek Paved the way for many products we actually use today. People always point out "The Cost" of XYZ, Before personal computers, Many people said, "It would be TOO COSTLY to own your own computer!"  "The brick" Cell Phone weighed 2 pounds, offered just a half-hour of talk time for every recharging, 1983  $3,995 Motorola DgnaTAC (It would cost $10,375.69 today), 1977 Apple II Cost $1,298 (That would cost $5,540.66 today.) 14 nm to 5 mn cpu > Early TSMC 5nm Test Chip Yields 80%.
 

Quote

Would be great for people who don't need actual productivity....

Just a little arrogant statement to say. Seeing I know and seen Professionals use tablets for work, iPhone to take pictures, record press statements and record video (even having to edit the video in a rush on their phones). "who don't need actual productivity.... " You sound like people I heard say Linus gets to play with Over Priced Computers all day as if he does nothing else and nothing "Productive". 

 

Quote

I do not ever see a phone replacing my PC for work or gaming

I know many people who think playing games on a pc = Not Productive and could think of thousands of other things to do that think is a better use of their time.
"Perspective" 

 

[Kilrah]

Are you drunk or something?

 

Yes technical people did expect improvements on all the points you mentioned, general users probably not obviously.

 

Modular stuff and "phone you turn into a tablet" is different since both have been tried a few times and failed miserably commercially. People just don't accept the tradeoffs.

Nothing to do with what can or can't be done, just with what people will buy.

 

Unfortunately you can have an "awesome" thing (for you), but if you can't get it to be accepted/work for the masses it's never going to work and be a thing you can just buy off the shelf.

 

Anything is possible, but... some stuff doesn't work commercially. 

[mrbunnylamakins]

7 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

Are you drunk or something?

 

Yes technical people did expect improvements on all the points you mentioned, general users probably not obviously.

 

Modular stuff and "phone you turn into a tablet" is different since both have been tried a few times and failed miserably commercially. People just don't accept the tradeoffs.

Nothing to do with what can or can't be done, just with what people will buy.

 

Unfortunately you can have an "awesome" thing (for you), but if you can't get it to be accepted/work for the masses it's never going to work and be a thing you can just buy off the shelf.

 

Anything is possible, but... some stuff doesn't work commercially. 

Like this? "Your Next Computer isn't a Computer"
 

 

[Kilrah]

Yeah that's good marketing but I really don't expect this will catch on more than the other many times Apple have tried to push it that way.

 

Apple have been pushing that "this is your new computer" thing since the original iPad Pro came out in 2015. If it had worked they wouldn't need to do so anymore. But it doesn't, so every year they add one little more thing hoping this time it'll be enough.

 

[Tristerin]

1 hour ago, mrbunnylamakins said:

"Who Carries a Point And Shoot Cameras around anymore? "

" Who Needs a 4 Core Processor In their Cellphone?"

 "Who Needs 64GB of space on their Cell Phones?"

"Who Needs 1 TB SD Card?"

"Who wants to see 4K Video?, let alone Watch on their cell phones?"

"Who wants a folding screen CellPhone/Tablet/Laptop, you seen how bad they are?"

  

Just a little arrogant statement to say. Seeing I know and seen Professionals use tablets for work, iPhone to take pictures, record press statements and record video (even having to edit the video in a rush on their phones). "who don't need actual productivity.... " You sound like people I heard say Linus gets to play with Over Priced Computers all day as if he does nothing else and nothing "Productive". 

 

I know many people who think playing games on a pc = Not Productive and could think of thousands of other things to do that think is a better use of their time.
"Perspective" 

 

1.) Professional photographers.  Current top end iPhones however is like having 60k worth of equipment 20 years ago, but if that was the case (phones being best) then Point and Shoot would NOT be a thing, yet it really really still is.  

2.) Anyone who doesn't have time to wait

3.) Anyone who saves pictures or any amount of videos

4.) See above

5.) Professionals at first, now consumers

6.) Anyone who had an adverse impact trying to utilize one of these devices for productivity.

 

As for arrogance.  I work and live in an industry that requires efficiency, time management, and to ensure we are on top of that we have the latest and greatest in technology.  That's why my laptop is top of the line HEDT system.  As to what you have seen, that's why we disagree - because we see things differently so I wouldn't call it arrogance, I would call it a different point of view.  My work iPhone 11 for work isn't used for anything but checking email on the fly, and quickly contacting each other.  I use it also to take good pictures close up once in a while, but we actually have a Point and Shoot expensive ass camera to do that when it matters (professional).

 

Productive to me, is something that can do what I need, in the timeframe I need it done.  For some people, a phone is enough.  For me?  Unacceptable.  It couldn't even come close to the compute power, screen space (3 monitors when Im not on the go with my laptop which has a 4k panel for more space), etc that my laptop affords me.  So it may sound over the top, but not when your goal is to move 1.7 million in revenue of product a day.

 

So until the technology can even come CLOSE to what I would need (and its light years behind and while Tech seems to extrapolate out quickly as things progress) - but Moore's Law is going to come to a head, or the entire way we think a phone/tablet/laptop/PC is designed will have to change.  I see that happening before a pocket device - given todays focus on tech - can compute as quickly as any modern Professional laptop, especially desktop.  Other than that you are basically trying to talk a pipe dream.

 

You asked peoples opinions on this, its okay not to agree.  Oh btw the next two computers in my sig are for gaming.  I spend less on them because I don't expect them to be productive. 

[mrbunnylamakins]

But do you see it eventually coming to where something like that can be you all in one for many people unless they need to push some weight like 4-8K video editing with Visual Effects. So who needs 1 TB Memory?  128GB Memory Sticks caught me off guard when they came out. There is a Niche for things like that. But I do see in coming in the near future, "Why Buy X, Y, and Z when you can just buy this single product."  Well look at how many makes and people who bought mini desktop pcs including the mac mini. But do you think people like those not doing heavy work loads like @tristerin on their pc hang out here much?

[Kilrah]

They're perfectly fine for people using them as facebook machines, sure. But people who only do that with their computing devices indeed don't hang out here.

 

1TB is useless on a mobile device, but is the minimum for a productivity tool IMO. I have 34TB of storage in my main machine.

 

12 minutes ago, mrbunnylamakins said:

"Why Buy X, Y, and Z when you can just buy this single product."

That's called a laptop.

 

Write a 2-page email on a tablet with a few attachments from productivity apps and you'll see why that's not viable.

 

I don't get how any of this relates to the original post though.

[mrbunnylamakins]

59 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

So until the technology can even come CLOSE to what I would need (and its light years behind and while Tech seems to extrapolate out quickly as things progress) - but Moore's Law is going to come to a head, or the entire way we think a phone/tablet/laptop/PC is designed will have to change.  I see that happening before a pocket device - given todays focus on tech - can compute as quickly as any modern Professional laptop, especially desktop.  Other than that you are basically trying to talk a pipe dream.

 

You asked peoples opinions on this, its okay not to agree.  Oh btw the next two computers in my sig are for gaming.  I spend less on them because I don't expect them to be productive. 

My older brother is a I.T. Specialist, I literally been over at his house as he was working on his lap top for 10 hours straight doing code and making corporate phone calls and phone conferences. He plays video games games in his spare time to unwind. So I am familiar with that. Also he gave me much of his older tech, Blackberry phone, and his..... Pocket Computer (Palm Pilot (PDA) with a 1GB IBM Microdrive Compact flash port, which he used for work. So I don't think my idea is that far fetch... I came to pass my idea for Dual Touch screen phone, but some are good, some are bad some need serious tweaking.  "Hyperloop: From pipe dream to reality" Flying cars called a pipe dream same with self-driving cars. Ring Door Bell "Stupid!" ... Many product and thing were called pipe dreams in the past that came to be.