windows Weird FPS drop

[FreqEvans]

Hi LTT forum people!

I'm having issues with old games.

 

First of all, my specs:

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 (stock)

GPU: GTX 1660 SUPER OC Gigabyte (stock)

RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200MHz

MoBo: MSI X570 A-PRO

Storage: 2x SSD, 1xHDD

OS: Windows 10 Home version 1903

 

With this build I can play latest game at 1080p without any problem at medium, high and also ultra settings.

For example, I'm playing Assassin's Creed Origins at 1080p Ultra settings with no lag.

Yesterday I've installed Ryse Son of Rome and at 1080p I've some massive fps drop, from 60 fps to 45-50 when I move the visual. Same thing with LA Noire.

 

I tried everything, disabled Game Mode, closed MSI Afterburner, turned off Wi-Fi and Antivirus.

I've also disabled the CFG feature from Windows Security panel. Nothing. FPS still drops.

 

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

 

(Sorry for my english, I'm Italian)

[Juular]

Update your Windows (latest one are 1909) and UEFI.

How much RAM you have ?

[Paul Rudd]

40 minutes ago, FreqEvans said:

Yesterday I've installed Ryse Son of Rome and at 1080p I've some massive fps drop, from 60 fps to 45-50 when I move the visual. Same thing with LA Noire.

These are two games that are common to cause problems. Simply do a quick youtube search for each game and put the words "lag or stuttering fix" after the title. Watch a few videos and choose which troubleshooting steps to try out. You'll eventually hit one that fixes your games lag/stuttering. Just make sure whatever you try that you remember how to set it back to how it was if it does not work.

 

Be sure to read the comments of each video you watch to see how many people it worked for. Some of them post their specs and say it worked or not. Helps to determine which steps to try out. Also, the more likes vs dislikes helps determine if the fix works or not as well.

 

For Ryse Son of Rome, I did a quick search and it looks like you have to change one thing in the configuration files and that might help fix your issue. Also someone recommended creating an Nvidia control panel profile for the game and try tweaking in there what needs to be tweaked. Maybe try setting maximum pre-rendered frames to 1, that works in a lot of games released around this year.

[FreqEvans]

53 minutes ago, Juular said:

Update your Windows (latest one are 1909) and UEFI.

How much RAM you have ?

I have 16 GB of RAM, I forgot to write before!! I can't update to 1909, I've also opened a thread before about that.

[FreqEvans]

40 minutes ago, Intransigent said:

These are two games that are common to cause problems. Simply do a quick youtube search for each game and put the words "lag or stuttering fix" after the title. Watch a few videos and choose which troubleshooting steps to try out. You'll eventually hit one that fixes your games lag/stuttering. Just make sure whatever you try that you remember how to set it back to how it was if it does not work.

 

Be sure to read the comments of each video you watch to see how many people it worked for. Some of them post their specs and say it worked or not. Helps to determine which steps to try out. Also, the more likes vs dislikes helps determine if the fix works or not as well.

 

For Ryse Son of Rome, I did a quick search and it looks like you have to change one thing in the configuration files and that might help fix your issue. Also someone recommended creating an Nvidia control panel profile for the game and try tweaking in there what needs to be tweaked. Maybe try setting maximum pre-rendered frames to 1, that works in a lot of games released around this year.

Thanks my friend, I'll do this. 

[FreqEvans]

16 hours ago, Intransigent said:

These are two games that are common to cause problems. Simply do a quick youtube search for each game and put the words "lag or stuttering fix" after the title. Watch a few videos and choose which troubleshooting steps to try out. You'll eventually hit one that fixes your games lag/stuttering. Just make sure whatever you try that you remember how to set it back to how it was if it does not work.

 

Be sure to read the comments of each video you watch to see how many people it worked for. Some of them post their specs and say it worked or not. Helps to determine which steps to try out. Also, the more likes vs dislikes helps determine if the fix works or not as well.

 

For Ryse Son of Rome, I did a quick search and it looks like you have to change one thing in the configuration files and that might help fix your issue. Also someone recommended creating an Nvidia control panel profile for the game and try tweaking in there what needs to be tweaked. Maybe try setting maximum pre-rendered frames to 1, that works in a lot of games released around this year.

Hi Intransigent, yesterday I've spent some times in the nvidia panel control and putting the maximum prerender frames to 1 and enabling the ultra low latency mode, now it works better.

On YouTube I saw people with a i7 4790k and a GTX 1070 playing at 4k/60fps... How is this possible? My build is better but in 4k it's like there is a limit to 36-37 fps with no Vsync enabled... I don't know why. Maybe it's a Windows fault... I really don't know. 

[Paul Rudd]

8 hours ago, FreqEvans said:

Hi Intransigent, yesterday I've spent some times in the nvidia panel control and putting the maximum prerender frames to 1 and enabling the ultra low latency mode, now it works better.

Glad to hear that.

8 hours ago, FreqEvans said:

On YouTube I saw people with a i7 4790k and a GTX 1070 playing at 4k/60fps... How is this possible?

Try talking to them. See if they had to do any type of troubleshooting to achieve that.

8 hours ago, FreqEvans said:

My build is better but in 4k it's like there is a limit to 36-37 fps with no Vsync enabled... I don't know why.

Not sure exactly. I do think the 1660 Super OC is a little better than a GTX 1070, however, that may not be certain for every single game.

 

What particular video did you see? And what particular games were they achieving 4K/60? What is your particular driver version? What is their particular driver version? What is your BIOS version? What is their BIOS version? Are you on a balanced power plan in the Windows settings? What is the min and max CPU operating frequency inside that power plan? Is their GPU overclocked? Is their CPU overclocked? Is their RAM speed overclocked?

 

These are just a few questions that could tie into why hardware has similar results. Numerous other questions exist.

8 hours ago, FreqEvans said:

Maybe it's a Windows fault... I really don't know. 

Definitely not a Windows fault. You could try to see if you have any pending Windows updates. The only Windows updates that you may need are the ones that Windows forces you to update. Not any optional ones.

[FreqEvans]

10 minutes ago, Intransigent said:

Glad to hear that.

Try talking to them. See if they had to do any type of troubleshooting to achieve that.

Not sure exactly. I do think the 1660 Super OC is a little better than a GTX 1070, however, that may not be certain for every single game.

 

What particular video did you see? And what particular games were they achieving 4K/60? What is your particular driver version? What is their particular driver version? What is your BIOS version? What is their BIOS version? Are you on a balanced power plan in the Windows settings? What is the min and max CPU operating frequency inside that power plan? Is their GPU overclocked? Is their CPU overclocked? Is their RAM speed overclocked?

 

These are just a few questions that could tie into why hardware has similar results. Numerous other questions exist.

Definitely not a Windows fault. You could try to see if you have any pending Windows updates. The only Windows updates that you may need are the ones that Windows forces you to update. Not any optional ones.

Thanks for your answer. I have the latest driver for every part of my computer. CPU, GPU, Bios and so on. Nothing is overclocked in my PC.

Regarding the video, it's not a recent video, maybe 2-3 years ago, and it is a video of Ryse Son of Rome (I forgot to write before).

[Paul Rudd]

1 hour ago, FreqEvans said:

I have the latest driver for every part of my computer.

What are their version numbers, as well as your version numbers? Drivers and BIOS.

1 hour ago, FreqEvans said:

Nothing is overclocked in my PC.

I asked if their GPU, CPU and RAM were overclocked. I saw that yours are at stock. I also asked multiple other questions that you didn't answer. It's all good though, here to help the best way I can.

1 hour ago, FreqEvans said:

Regarding the video, it's not a recent video, maybe 2-3 years ago, and it is a video of Ryse Son of Rome (I forgot to write before).

Link?

 

Also, your motherboard is well capable of overclocking that Ryzen 5 3600 to at least its turbo speed of 4.2 GHz. Very simple to do from your BIOS without even touching voltage. Just make sure to set up a fairly aggressive fan curve to keep that CPU nice and cool.

 

You could also squeeze out higher RAM speed than DDR4-3200 ya' know. As that mobo supports up to DDR4-4400. Next speed up from 3200 is 3466, I'd try to achieve that speed. Then try 3600. It will help out tremendously with your frame rate. Not only more fps, but a much more stable fps.

[FreqEvans]

3 hours ago, Intransigent said:

What are their version numbers, as well as your version numbers? Drivers and BIOS.

Unfortunately I can't get their version numbers. Mine are not the latest as I thought. Nvidia driver 441.66 (latest), AMD Chipset X570 1.11.22.0454 (latest), BIOS MSI 7C37vH4 (not latest; latest is 7C37vH6 and I'm going to update now)

 

3 hours ago, Intransigent said:

I asked if their GPU, CPU and RAM were overclocked. I saw that yours are at stock. I also asked multiple other questions that you didn't answer. It's all good though, here to help the best way I can.

Link?

From the video I can't obtain this information.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDAlLBnAGAA

 

3 hours ago, Intransigent said:

Also, your motherboard is well capable of overclocking that Ryzen 5 3600 to at least its turbo speed of 4.2 GHz. Very simple to do from your BIOS without even touching voltage. Just make sure to set up a fairly aggressive fan curve to keep that CPU nice and cool.

 

You could also squeeze out higher RAM speed than DDR4-3200 ya' know. As that mobo supports up to DDR4-4400. Next speed up from 3200 is 3466, I'd try to achieve that speed. Then try 3600. It will help out tremendously with your frame rate. Not only more fps, but a much more stable fps.

I never tried to overclock the RAM. I'll try it.

My Ryzen can easily reach the turbo speed and a little bit over. 

4 hours ago, Intransigent said:

Are you on a balanced power plan in the Windows settings? What is the min and max CPU operating frequency inside that power plan?

I'm not in a balanced power plan and min and max are set to 100%

 

Thanks for your patience!

[Paul Rudd]

2 hours ago, FreqEvans said:

Unfortunately I can't get their version numbers.

Pretty sure they're different than yours.

3 hours ago, FreqEvans said:

Mine are not the latest as I thought. Nvidia driver 441.66 (latest), AMD Chipset X570 1.11.22.0454 (latest), BIOS MSI 7C37vH4 (not latest; latest is 7C37vH6 and I'm going to update now)

Having the latest drivers isn't always going to give you the best performance. You mention that you are on the latest Nvidia and AMD Chipsets. Did you by chance use DDU to uninstall prior drivers before updating to the latest? Leaving prior drivers without using DDU can cause issues. As for updating the BIOS, it's not required. The reason I ask these things is because certain drivers and certain BIOS versions can provide different experiences. With a little research, you can figure out which ones work best with your hardware.

3 hours ago, FreqEvans said:

From the video I can't obtain this information. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDAlLBnAGAA

What makes you think that video is 4K/60? Nowhere is the fps being shown. Obviously for the reason that it's not 4K/60.

3 hours ago, FreqEvans said:

I never tried to overclock the RAM. I'll try it.

It's pretty simple. Plenty of guides on how to do it if you don't know exactly how to do it.

3 hours ago, FreqEvans said:

My Ryzen can easily reach the turbo speed and a little bit over.

That's good. Glad to hear that.

3 hours ago, FreqEvans said:

I'm not in a balanced power plan and min and max are set to 100%

Having both min and max to 100% means your CPU is constantly running at its max clock speed, even while not gaming. Which isn't ideal imo. Set min to 5% and max to 100%. Then outside of gaming your CPU will run as cool as a cucumber and will only clock higher when needed.

[Mark Kaine]

1 hour ago, Intransigent said:

Pretty sure they're different than yours.

Having the latest drivers isn't always going to give you the best performance. You mention that you are on the latest Nvidia and AMD Chipsets. Did you by chance use DDU to uninstall prior drivers before updating to the latest? Leaving prior drivers without using DDU can cause issues. As for updating the BIOS, it's not required. The reason I ask these things is because certain drivers and certain BIOS versions can provide different experiences. With a little research, you can figure out which ones work best with your hardware.

What makes you think that video is 4K/60? Nowhere is the fps being shown. Obviously for the reason that it's not 4K/60.

It's pretty simple. Plenty of guides on how to do it if you don't know exactly how to do it.

That's good. Glad to hear that.

Having both min and max to 100% means your CPU is constantly running at its max clock speed, even while not gaming. Which isn't ideal imo. Set min to 5% and max to 100%. Then outside of gaming your CPU will run as cool as a cucumber and will only clock higher when needed.

Actually you would be correct, but it's likely he needs to set it differently,  especially when not on latest win version. 

 

It depends on the idle voltage however - which means no programs active and 0% CPU usage ideally. 

 

4 hours ago, FreqEvans said:

I'm not in a balanced power plan and min and max are set to 100%

It's possible I asked this already because it comes up often,  what's your CPU idle voltage? 

 

Best to check with Ryzen Master or CPUZ 

[FreqEvans]

6 hours ago, Intransigent said:

Pretty sure they're different than yours.

Having the latest drivers isn't always going to give you the best performance. You mention that you are on the latest Nvidia and AMD Chipsets. Did you by chance use DDU to uninstall prior drivers before updating to the latest? Leaving prior drivers without using DDU can cause issues. As for updating the BIOS, it's not required. The reason I ask these things is because certain drivers and certain BIOS versions can provide different experiences. With a little research, you can figure out which ones work best with your hardware.

I used DDU just two days ago to reinstall nvidia driver and for defiitely unistall old AMD video drivers. 

I won't to downgrade my drivers because my latest games works better with that, at this point if Ryse works with a bit of stuttering it is no longer a problem.

However, after updating this drivers, Ryse works fine also in 1920x1080 with supersampling at 1.5x.

6 hours ago, Intransigent said:

What makes you think that video is 4K/60? Nowhere is the fps being shown. Obviously for the reason that it's not 4K/60.

Yes, that's my fault. I took it for granted that it was 4K/60, as you can read in title, even because I saw videos when people in order to play this game at 4K/60 used powerful computers build like GTX Titan Z in SLI and RTX 2080 Ti / i9 9990K, reaching 78-80 FPS. I found out that Ryse use the same engine as Crysis 3, one of the most demanding in terms of powerfulness.

7 hours ago, Intransigent said:

Having both min and max to 100% means your CPU is constantly running at its max clock speed, even while not gaming. Which isn't ideal imo. Set min to 5% and max to 100%. Then outside of gaming your CPU will run as cool as a cucumber and will only clock higher when needed.

Also for me it isn't the better choice, but surfing the internet I read that having this two parameters setted to 100% could reduce the stuttering.

However, when I updated the AMD Chipset, it has installed also custom power plan specifically for AMD Ryzen 3000 series, and for now I'm using the High Performance plan.

(I now setted min to 5% and max to 100%).

5 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

It's possible I asked this already because it comes up often,  what's your CPU idle voltage? 

Hi Mark. My voltage in idle is 1.094 V, but in the BIOS I override this option to a max of 1.355 V, to prevent the processor from overheating.

 

5 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

Actually you would be correct, but it's likely he needs to set it differently,  especially when not on latest win version. 

what do you mean with this?

 

 

 

Thanks again to Intransigent and to Mark!

[Mark Kaine]

3 hours ago, FreqEvans said:

what do you mean with this?

There are some configurations where the automatic voltage regulation for 3000 series doesn't work properly and puts way too much voltage. 

But doesn't seem the case for you,  around 1V is fine. 

 

Though you shouldn't need to (or rather shouldn't) regulate this in BIOS,  the chip works best when it does all this automatically on its own. 

 

I would set the voltage to automatic in BIOS and then try the different pwerplans in Windows,  personally I had the best performance with "windows balanced"  which is also recommended by AMD,  but you should just try it out. 

 

And also don't forget to check the idle voltage occasionally, should be ideally under 1V, but slightly above like 1.1 is also ok I guess. 

[FreqEvans]

11 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

There are some configurations where the automatic voltage regulation for 3000 series doesn't work properly and puts way too much voltage. 

But doesn't seem the case for you,  around 1V is fine. 

 

Though you shouldn't need to (or rather shouldn't) regulate this in BIOS,  the chip works best when it does all this automatically on its own. 

 

I would set the voltage to automatic in BIOS and then try the different pwerplans in Windows,  personally I had the best performance with "windows balanced"  which is also recommended by AMD,  but you should just try it out. 

 

And also don't forget to check the idle voltage occasionally, should be ideally under 1V, but slightly above like 1.1 is also ok I guess. 

Ok, thanks for your answer. So you are saying that is better if I put CPU voltage to auto?

[Mark Kaine]

3 minutes ago, FreqEvans said:

Ok, thanks for your answer. So you are saying that is better if I put CPU voltage to auto?

Well, yeap.

 

Also setting it max to ~1.3 like you did isn't the best idea,  it goes up to 1.5 automatically by default,  so that might be why you're experiencing issues also. 

 

Just set it to default, then try out the power settings in Windows and check the *idle* voltage also. 

[FreqEvans]

1 minute ago, Mark Kaine said:

Well, yeap.

 

Also setting it max to ~1.3 like you did isn't the best idea,  it goes up to 1.5 automatically by default,  so that might be why you're experiencing issues also. 

 

Just set it to default, then try out the power settings in Windows and check the *idle* voltage also. 

Ok, thanks Mark!

[Mark Kaine]

3 minutes ago, FreqEvans said:

Ok, thanks Mark!

No problem! 

 

Also if you're on Windows 1903 you probably don't need to update as these voltage issues are (should be) fixed in 1903.  You probably shouldn't try to force an update either,  let windows do this automatically as your PC probably isn't "ready" for 1909 yet. 

[FreqEvans]

8 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

Also if you're on Windows 1903 you probably don't need to update as these voltage issues are (should be) fixed in 1903.  You probably shouldn't try to force an update either,  let windows do this automatically as your PC probably isn't "ready" for 1909 yet. 

Windows Update says that my PC is ready for this update for a month and and half now. Also other updates keep fail. Somebody says that it refers to the WinSxS folder, but also if you clean this folder the update still fail.

[Paul Rudd]

5 hours ago, FreqEvans said:

surfing the internet I read that having this two parameters setted to 100% could reduce the stuttering. However, when I updated the AMD Chipset, it has installed also custom power plan specifically for AMD Ryzen 3000 series, and for now I'm using the High Performance plan. (I now setted min to 5% and max to 100%).

It may be possible that having the min and max at 100% could reduce stuttering, it is up to the user to basically monitor how your CPU actually performs when set to both 5% and 100% and when set to 100% and 100%. To check this, simply show your CPU clock speed while gaming. I always have mine shown and I do not see it down-clock from my max GHz(3.2) while gaming and I have my min set to 5% and my max set to 100%. Now this could be because I have manually clocked my GPU in my BIOS to 3.2 GHz and disabled turbo boost. Either way, I've had no issues since I set my min to 5% and my max to 100%. If you somehow find during gaming that your CPU clock speed fluctuates while having it set to 5% and 100%, then I'd set it back to 100% and 100% and see if it makes a difference. If it does, then set it to 100% and 100%. But I'd strongly recommend to change it back to 5% and 100% when you're not gaming so that your CPU doesn't just stay pumped to your max GHz while idle. To make this process easy, simply setup two power plans and switch between the two. One for gaming and one for when you're not gaming. That is, if you find that 100% and 100% makes a difference for you.

1 hour ago, Mark Kaine said:

There are some configurations where the automatic voltage regulation for 3000 series doesn't work properly and puts way too much voltage.

I have found this to be true for some people. And they run into heat issues.

1 hour ago, Mark Kaine said:

Though you shouldn't need to (or rather shouldn't) regulate this in BIOS,  the chip works best when it does all this automatically on its own.

The only time to mess around with voltage, imo, is when you've done tons of research on a specific CPU and know exactly what you're doing when it might need tweaking.

1 hour ago, Mark Kaine said:

I would set the voltage to automatic in BIOS and then try the different pwerplans in Windows,  personally I had the best performance with "windows balanced"  which is also recommended by AMD,  but you should just try it out.

Same here. Word for word. And I'm using an Intel CPU. I use balanced and have my min set to 5% and my max set to 100%. I remember having to change to this around a year ago when I learned about it and it's worked wonders for me.

1 hour ago, Mark Kaine said:

And also don't forget to check the idle voltage occasionally, should be ideally under 1V, but slightly above like 1.1 is also ok I guess. 

Precisely. And while gaming of course. Showing your voltage while gaming and periodically checking your voltage while not gaming is wise so you'll learn what your CPU likes to do with voltage while you're gaming and while idle. Comes in handy for learning your CPU temperature threshold and for when you decide to do any type of overclocking/manual clocking.

1 hour ago, Mark Kaine said:

You probably shouldn't try to force an update either,  let windows do this automatically as your PC probably isn't "ready" for 1909 yet.

 

54 minutes ago, FreqEvans said:

Windows Update says that my PC is ready for this update for a month and and half now. Also other updates keep fail. Somebody says that it refers to the WinSxS folder, but also if you clean this folder the update still fail.

From my experience, the best time to update Windows is when you go to shutdown your PC and you see these words... "Update and Shutdown or Update and Restart". If you don't see those words, imo, there is no need to update Windows. I've ran into issues trying to force an update to 1909 on my laptop PC around a month ago and getting everything back to normal was not fun. Luckily, I got it back to normal and it's not forcing any update on me. It shows "Feature update to Windows 10, version 1909" right now and I'm fine with it being there as it is not making me "Update and Shutdown" yet. To me, this means my laptop PC just isn't ready for it. And I'm happy with that.

 

My desktop says something similar, "Optional updates available. Feature update to Windows 10, version 1909. With a red download and install button." It also does not say, "Update and Shutdown" when I go to shutdown my PC. So I'm simply not going to update until it says that.

 

Oh, glad to see that you've gotten Ryse to work better. I haven't played that game in a while but it is a solid title. It reminds me a lot of the 2008 game Rise of the Argonauts. Funny, I just realized they both have Ryse/Rise in their title. I wonder why that is.

[FreqEvans]

1 hour ago, Intransigent said:

From my experience, the best time to update Windows is when you go to shutdown your PC and you see these words... "Update and Shutdown or Update and Restart". If you don't see those words, imo, there is no need to update Windows. I've ran into issues trying to force an update to 1909 on my laptop PC around a month ago and getting everything back to normal was not fun. Luckily, I got it back to normal and it's not forcing any update on me. It shows "Feature update to Windows 10, version 1909" right now and I'm fine with it being there as it is not making me "Update and Shutdown" yet. To me, this means my laptop PC just isn't ready for it. And I'm happy with that.

 

My desktop says something similar, "Optional updates available. Feature update to Windows 10, version 1909. With a red download and install button." It also does not say, "Update and Shutdown" when I go to shutdown my PC. So I'm simply not going to update until it says that.

Good advice. I'll follow it.

 

-----------

 

I have selected the AMD Balanced Power Plan, and by default it has min setted to 99% and max to 100%. Strange idea of "balanced" from AMD engineers. However, I changed to 5% the min value.

Other fact: my voltage is not properly stable. It jump from ~1.040V to ~1.450V for ~half a second (not all cores together). Same thing for temperature value. While it is stable to 37-38, it jumps to 45-46 for ~half a second, at the same time of the voltage. But, at the end, my system is very stable, and I can't complain.

1 hour ago, Intransigent said:

Oh, glad to see that you've gotten Ryse to work better. I haven't played that game in a while but it is a solid title.

I did a little bit of OC to my vid card and I get 8 to 10 FPS more. Thanks Nvidia!