Any hope for intel 2020?

[Firebird_Gaming]

After the launch of 3rd gen Ryzen 9's and Threadrippers, I really have doubts about intel's future as a competitive processor manufacturer (As do many others).  However, I managed to find a roadmap of intels new 10th gen, 14nm processors. They are definite, logical improvements over current, ninth generation processors. The 14nm processor has another + tacked to it, brining hopefully better per thread performance and new architecture upgrades. Also, the HD graphics 7th gen is featured on these chips, hopefully thats good news to budget gamers (i3 10100 and 10300 buyers). I also took note of the increased  L3 cache, and... different socket... Someone is gonna need a new motherboard. But the better news is that it also has more cores and hyper threading throughout the lineup, which should bring intel closer to matching AMD in multi thread performance throughout the lineup. But is it good enough? Maybe, I think that Intel still holds the lead in single core performance, and more cores and more hyper-threading can only help close the gap to AMD's equivalent chips. The i9 and i7 may be good enough to close the gap with the r7 and r9 (3900x). However, with 4th gen ryzen coming soon, I doubt how long they can hold a lead. However, in June, ice lake will be released. The 10nm architecture could be quite competitive assuming that intel holds their single thread advantage, high core clocks, and 4-6-8-10 core lineup. I am interested to see if anyone shares my views. A lot of people say that intel is dead, but is it really? Sure now it has lost it's lead, but I am sure that the future holds potential. 

  

 

[muito_gostoso]

no hope for intel until 2022-

[dgsddfgdfhgs]

i3 users - never gets to upgrade, mainly office works

4c i5/i7 users - most likely to upgrade to 10 600 if they missed the whole ryzen trend

anything newer wont even look at intel

[Firebird_Gaming]

7nm? I read articles saying that 10nm was coming june 2020. I can very much be wrong though

[Mister Woof]

If this is what they led with on 9th gen, instead of being stupid fuckin greedy with the 9900k and making it an i9, and selling defective 9900ks as the i7-9700k, AMD would not be dominating as they are right now.

 

This theoretical i5-10600k with an unlock 6/12 at $269 would be a very very compelling competitor to the Ryzen 5 3600x within spitting distance of price. It would justify the difference because it is essentially an 8700k, which still wins at games.

intel fucked up with the 9th generation launch, IMO. It put them in the red.

[Mr. Smiley]

7 minutes ago, dgsddfgdfhgs said:

i3 users - never gets to upgrade, mainly office works

4c i5/i7 users - most likely to upgrade to 10 600 if they missed the whole ryzen trend

anything newer wont even look at intel

I would buy an unlocked i3, even a 4c/4t one, for the ladies machine if they would lower the price on them. Currently an 8350k is $15 USD less than a 9600k on amazon, and you can buy a 9350k on amazon or newegg. Whats the incentive to buy a 4c4t i3 when for the same price I can get a 6c12t Ryzen cpu that is faster. 

 

If they pushed the prices for the unlocked i3 down to sub $100 I would probably pick one up. But that is just a pipe dream at this point. 

[dgsddfgdfhgs]

1 minute ago, Plutosaurus said:

This theoretical i5-10600k with an unlock 6/12 at $269 would be a very very compelling competitor to the Ryzen 5 3600x within spitting distance of price. It would justify the difference because it is essentially an 8700k, which still wins at games.

by that time, 3700x will drop price in half

unless AM5 screwed up

[Mister Woof]

1 minute ago, dgsddfgdfhgs said:

by that time, 3700x will drop price in half

unless AM5 screwed up

its already too late. i said if they led with this ijnstead of 9th gen they'd be okay.

 

At this point it's too little, too late.

[dgsddfgdfhgs]

Just now, Plutosaurus said:

its already too late. i said if they led with this ijnstead of 9th gen they'd be okay.

 

At this point it's too little, too late.

intel gave themselves up , they could do nothing at all and drop current 9th gen price in half or lower, intel will be best again

stupid marketing

[Mister Woof]

9 minutes ago, dgsddfgdfhgs said:

intel gave themselves up , they could do nothing at all and drop current 9th gen price in half or lower, intel will be best again

stupid marketing

Just saying, if this list was the 9th gen instead of what we got, this discussion forum would be vastly different than how it is today.

 

(Launch Prices)

 

$179 i3-10350k 4/8 4.8ghz 

vs

$150 Ryzen 5 3400g

 

$199 i5-10500 6/12 4.2ghz

vs

$199 Ryzen 5 3600

 

$269 i5-10600k 6/12 4.9ghz

vs

$249 Ryzen 5 3600x

 

$389 i7-10700k 8/16 5.1ghz

vs

$399 Ryzen 7 3700x 

 

Instead of the landslide "Just buy 3600/3700x" because the 9400/9600/9700k lack any type of SMT, which is at this point a standard feature.

There would be an actual reason to choose the intel chips, like, at all, and it would not be so completely lopsided as it is regarding recommendations.

[Firebird_Gaming]

Fair enough. Has anyone got hope for 10nm? A die shrink should bring better performance per core, and 10 stronger Intel cores are equal if not better to 12 AMD cores. 

[Mister Woof]

Just now, Firebird_Gaming said:

Fair enough. Has anyone got hope for 10nm? A die shrink should bring better performance per core, and 10 stronger Intel cores are equal if not better to 12 AMD cores. 

Really too hard to make any kind of assumption on the desktop application performance.

 

10mm from the mobile examples right now don't really seem to be much of an actual net gain. They have maybe 15% better IPC but don't seem to be able to clock nearly as high, so no actual improvement. So that's not good.

[Firebird_Gaming]

Yea, all architectures have their problems when they first come out. Zen did too, but look at the beast it has become. Assuming Intel tries to sit down and work on their processors and resolve issues found in the mobile lineup, instead of relying on shitty marketing schemes (Yeah, probably not the most reliable assumption), then maybe we might have an improvement upon 14nm.  

[Mister Woof]

The issue is that 14nm is actually not terrible.

 

It's Intel being stingy with it's model segmentation.

 

Like I said, if 9th gen was this list instead of what we got, things would be completely different.

 

They could have ate some profit in the short term but suffered much less damage to their reputation.

[Keiran1983]

Heard that intel is seeking assistance from Samsung to help with their chips...

 

talk about humiliation...

[Firebird_Gaming]

AMD has definitely taken the lead. However, I have a feeling Intel will claw their way back into the lead. The Question is if they can stay there. AMD could well get an unshakeable hold on the market. And I can even see a future where Qualcomm pops up and kicks both of them off the center stage.

[Mister Woof]

4 minutes ago, Firebird_Gaming said:

AMD has definitely taken the lead. However, I have a feeling Intel will claw their way back into the lead. The Question is if they can stay there. AMD could well get an unshakeable hold on the market. And I can even see a future where Qualcomm pops up and kicks both of them off the center stage.

Intel will eventually get back into the game and stay there. It would take monumental changes on many many levels to completely change this.

 

AMD is still not "in the lead", especially not I'm terms of market share. Their consumer sales are better, but Intel doesn't really care about that. AMD is in the lead I'm growth, though.

 

Intel at this point is just experiencing a set back specifically in their CPU market. They have many other products and have their fingers in everything.

 

I wouldn't worry about them dying or anything, but I do worry they won't learn from this and we'll just be back here in 5 years when they come back out on top and stagnate again for another 5.

[Firebird_Gaming]

When will Intel 10nm come out? I've heard anywhere from Feb 2020 to Feb 2021. Also, how much of a performance upgrade will that be? (let's assume that they keep the same core layout and clock speeds as 14nm) 

[RAM555789]

It really is impressive that we have made it down to the 7nm scale. The closer and closer CPUs get to the size of an atom, the more issues we will have with quantum tunneling.

[Tan3l6]

Maybe they'll go DDR5 in 2020?

Not with 10th "season" but maybe later. Many sources have written that DDR5 might come to desktop computers starting 2020.

[GoldenLag]

3 minutes ago, Tan3l6 said:

Maybe they'll go DDR5 in 2020?

they dont have a node change nor architecture change. 

 

DDR5 is expected to enter consumer space in 2021 ish. which would align with desktop 10nm for intel and Zen 4/5 and end of AM4

[Mira Yurizaki]

If AMD can make a comeback after 6 years of piddling around a crappy architecture, surely Intel can. And probably sooner since they can throw more resources at the problem.

 

I mean, Ice Lake is looking pretty good.

[xg32]

1 hour ago, Firebird_Gaming said:

When will Intel 10nm come out? I've heard anywhere from Feb 2020 to Feb 2021. Also, how much of a performance upgrade will that be? (let's assume that they keep the same core layout and clock speeds as 14nm) 

there's no hope for 10nm vs zen 3, all the rumors indicate that 10nm is screwed for desktops. As for 7nm thats at least 2021 against a mature amd platform, but that's the soonest intel will be "back".

 

The problem now isn't even the price gouging intel did before 2019 (the 9900k is strill the best 8core chip), it's the 3950x-3990x that intel has no answer to, and there's clearly room for 64cores.

 

Funny thing is, the 3960x and the 3970x are getting charged as a flagship product with a premium, and intel paved the road for that.

[Firebird_Gaming]

I have the feeling that AMD will start a sort of Tick-Tock revision soon, i.e. Ryzen 3rd gen: die shrink, Ryzen 4th gen: architecture optimization, Ryzen 5th gen, Die shrink (5nm) Ryzen 6th Gen: Architecture Optimization etc. etc. Assuming that Intel will continue to attempt to bang out chips and learns from this marketing fiasco, and AMD continues to release processors on a 12 month rotation, then Intel should mathematically catch up either around summer 2020 (10nm vs zen 2), which would conveniently coincide with 3000 series GPUs and DDR5. Other than that, 7nm in 2021 (more likely 2022) will coincide with Ryzen 5th gen, and possibly zen 3 (+?) and GDDR6x VRAM. Either way, Intel looks set to catch up in a coupe of years, or even only a few months, if they sit down, put their heads together, and roll out a die shrink and a core increase sometime this year at reasonable prices. Intel has a large budget and a good market share, there is no reason it can catch up. As well as that, Nvidia's 3000 seires might actually come at a reasonable price for it's performance, (think 3030 as a compact, $100-$110 card). If Blue and Green do their jobs and work well together, they might just boot AMD out of both the CPU and GPU mainstage. 

[Mira Yurizaki]

10 minutes ago, Firebird_Gaming said:

I have the feeling that AMD will start a sort of Tick-Tock revision soon, i.e. Ryzen 3rd gen: die shrink, Ryzen 4th gen: architecture optimization, Ryzen 5th gen, Die shrink (5nm) Ryzen 6th Gen: Architecture Optimization etc.

AMD is a fabless company and unless they're funneling money into who they contract to produce chips (which I believe is solely TSMC) into process node R&D, then they can't do this strategy because they don't control the manufacturing process.

 

This is unlike Intel who does manufacture their own chips.