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RC car Brushless motor question.

Jstagzsr
By Jstagzsr
in Hobby Electronics
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Posted

i know this isnt computer related but i figured this is still the best place on the interwebs to ask an electronics question...

I had a brushed 380 size motor and brushed esc in the rc car.. it had great low end torque, but not enough top end speed. it went maybe 25mph.. So i switched to a brushless 24x40mm 3000kv motor and brushless 60 Amp esc, and a 3s lipo from a 2s.. the car was WAY faster but it took a bit for it to hit its "power band".. it had no torque.. extremely slow off the line untill it was rolling 1-2mph and then it would hit its power band and take off. like if i was sitting on a gravel road it wouldnt even spin the tires off the line until it started rolling a little, then it would take off like it had a rocket engine in it... i figured since i switched to a smaller diameter motor brushless that was the problem. so i got a new motor mount and swapped the 2440 3k kv brushless for a 36x50mm 4370kv brushless..

The same thing is happening.. with no force on the motor (holding the car off the ground) itll spin the tires so fast itll literally rip through the superglue and rip the tires right off the rim. and the top speed has to easily be 60-70mph.. i definitely got the top end i was looking for. But still, off the line, it has no power. it has far more acceleration than the brushed 380, but only from 1-2mph on.. it has to get rolling before itll take off. from a dead stop, if you squeeze the trigger full throttle, itll still have to get rolling a little before the power takes over..

Is this just how brushless motors work? no low end torque and all top end speed? This makes no sense. Ive seen videos of people upgrading to brushless and theyre pulling wheelies like its nothing AND they have top end speed.. theyre doing standing back flips etc.. why would this be happening? I dont know enough about this subject to even make an educated guess..

I ordered an 80 amp esc and a 500kv 3660 brushless thats otw now. but this is the motor for a 1/10 car and mine is 1/18.. The 2440 brushless shouldve been all the power i needed. i'm at a loss. no idea whats going on.. 

 

Its a 55$ Wltoys A959 with over 400$ in upgrades.. I'm severely irritated that i spent so much on a car that im not happy with. This thing should be an animal at all rpm's, at all speeds. Maybe this is me just trying to have my cake and eat it too, but i think something is just wrong with something. Something isnt set up right.. . Has anyone experienced what im talking about?

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Posted

What battery are you using? Also your pinion gear is massive. Small tires, massive pinion, mismatched kv rating, and lower C rating of a battery all sound like culprits. 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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On 10/20/2019 at 7:20 PM, BuckGup said:

What battery are you using? Also your pinion gear is massive. Small tires, massive pinion, mismatched kv rating, and lower C rating of a battery all sound like culprits. 

the battery i use is 3s/ 11.1v/  1000mah/ 25c

the stock pinion is a 17t but with the larger diameter motor that 27T (pictured) pinion is the smallest i can use.

and those tires are actually way bigger than the stock tires. The stock tires are tiny. But i added 29mm axel extensions and went from a 7mm hex to a 12mm hex. Yes it is more weight the motor has to turn but even with the smaller tires on it it was doing the same thing. The bigger tires and wider stance give me WAY more stability. so i wouldnt want to downgrade back to a less stable car. but i dont think thats the issue because theres people with the same 540 sized motor in their 1/10 scale cars with massive tires 3,4,5 times the size of mine and they have all the power in the world.

 

On 10/20/2019 at 7:20 PM, BuckGup said:

What battery are you using? Also your pinion gear is massive. Small tires, massive pinion, mismatched kv rating, and lower C rating of a battery all sound like culprits. 

i also have a 5500 mah 100c 3s lipo that i bought originally for the car but it's way too big. i couldnt use it. It wont even fit under the shell. wont even fit on the chassis. the battery is longer than the chassis. lol. i didnt know the dimensions when i bought it.

 

and what do you mean by "mismatched KV rating"?

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Hey, a fellow Rochestarian!

 

A general rule of thumb is the higher the kv rating of the motor, the smaller the pinion gear. When you're done running, you should be able to touch the motor for a few seconds without being burned. I'd be surprised if your motors aren't overheating with that pinion gear and losing power...that thing looks to be way oversized.

 

I believe lower kv motors have more low end torque, sacrificing top end speed. Do you have a manual for that truck? They will usually indicate which motors are recommended, along with pinion size. It's a delicate balance between how much torque/top end speed you want all while ensuring the motor isn't getting too warm.

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On 10/20/2019 at 8:29 PM, Jstagzsr said:

the battery i use is 3s/ 11.1v/  1000mah/ 25c

the stock pinion is a 17t but with the larger diameter motor that 27T (pictured) pinion is the smallest i can use.

and those tires are actually way bigger than the stock tires. The stock tires are tiny. But i added 29mm axel extensions and went from a 7mm hex to a 12mm hex. Yes it is more weight the motor has to turn but even with the smaller tires on it it was doing the same thing. The bigger tires and wider stance give me WAY more stability. so i wouldnt want to downgrade back to a less stable car. but i dont think thats the issue because theres people with the same 540 sized motor in their 1/10 scale cars with massive tires 3,4,5 times the size of mine and they have all the power in the world.

 

What radio and ESC are you running? The issue can be in the program settings and may need adjustments or re-calibration. Your gearing may be too high, but to know for sure you will have to see how it performs under load.

Also it is easy to waste money on cheapo RC car just to make them better, I strongly suggest going with a good known brand because most of the time it cost more to upgrade and make the cheap model as good as a well known one. I used to repair RC cars for customers and too often people are not happy with their cheap car they bought online and have to spend hundreds of dollars fixing them because it would not last three days of normal use (cough, cough, "Exceed", cough, cough).   

 

Your issue sounds like an electronics issue and should be easy to figure out with some test equipment or the manual, I use spare electronics and the manuals sometimes to diagnose problems. Sometimes the radio system can cause issues, having a spare can help.

Gaming With a 4:3 CRT

System specs below

 

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 5700X with a Noctua NH-U9S cooler 
Motherboard: Gigabyte B450 Aorus M (Because it was cheap)
RAM: 32GB (4 x 8GB) Corsair Vengance LPX 3200Mhz CL16
GPU: EVGA GTX 980 Ti SC Blower Card
HDD: 7200RPM TOSHIBA DT01ACA100 1TB, External HDD: 5400RPM 2TB WD My Passport
SSD: 1tb Samsung 970 evo m.2 nvme
PSU: Corsair CX650M
Displays: ViewSonic VA2012WB LCD 1680x1050p @ 75Hz
Gateway VX920 CRT: 1920x1440@65Hz, 1600x1200@75Hz, 1200x900@100Hz, 960x720@125Hz
Gateway VX900 CRT: 1920x1440@64Hz, 1600x1200@75Hz, 1200x900@100Hz, 960x720@120Hz (Can be pushed to 175Hz)
 
Keyboard: Thermaltake eSPORTS MEKA PRO with Cherry MX Red switches
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Posted
On 10/20/2019 at 8:02 PM, Jstagzsr said:

i know this isnt computer related but i figured this is still the best place on the interwebs to ask an electronics question...

I had a brushed 380 size motor and brushed esc in the rc car.. it had great low end torque, but not enough top end speed. it went maybe 25mph.. So i switched to a brushless 24x40mm 3000kv motor and brushless 60 Amp esc, and a 3s lipo from a 2s.. the car was WAY faster but it took a bit for it to hit its "power band".. it had no torque.. extremely slow off the line untill it was rolling 1-2mph and then it would hit its power band and take off. like if i was sitting on a gravel road it wouldnt even spin the tires off the line until it started rolling a little, then it would take off like it had a rocket engine in it... i figured since i switched to a smaller diameter motor brushless that was the problem. so i got a new motor mount and swapped the 2440 3k kv brushless for a 36x50mm 4370kv brushless..

The same thing is happening.. with no force on the motor (holding the car off the ground) itll spin the tires so fast itll literally rip through the superglue and rip the tires right off the rim. and the top speed has to easily be 60-70mph.. i definitely got the top end i was looking for. But still, off the line, it has no power. it has far more acceleration than the brushed 380, but only from 1-2mph on.. it has to get rolling before itll take off. from a dead stop, if you squeeze the trigger full throttle, itll still have to get rolling a little before the power takes over..

Is this just how brushless motors work? no low end torque and all top end speed? This makes no sense. Ive seen videos of people upgrading to brushless and theyre pulling wheelies like its nothing AND they have top end speed.. theyre doing standing back flips etc.. why would this be happening? I dont know enough about this subject to even make an educated guess..

I ordered an 80 amp esc and a 500kv 3660 brushless thats otw now. but this is the motor for a 1/10 car and mine is 1/18.. The 2440 brushless shouldve been all the power i needed. i'm at a loss. no idea whats going on.. 

 

Its a 55$ Wltoys A959 with over 400$ in upgrades.. I'm severely irritated that i spent so much on a car that im not happy with. This thing should be an animal at all rpm's, at all speeds. Maybe this is me just trying to have my cake and eat it too, but i think something is just wrong with something. Something isnt set up right.. . Has anyone experienced what im talking about?

20191019_151300.jpg

Whoa...your pinion gear is huge....no wonder you have little torque

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On 10/27/2019 at 4:47 AM, MadAnt250 said:

What radio and ESC are you running? The issue can be in the program settings and may need adjustments or re-calibration. Your gearing may be too high, but to know for sure you will have to see how it performs under load.

Also it is easy to waste money on cheapo RC car just to make them better, I strongly suggest going with a good known brand because most of the time it cost more to upgrade and make the cheap model as good as a well known one. I used to repair RC cars for customers and too often people are not happy with their cheap car they bought online and have to spend hundreds of dollars fixing them because it would not last three days of normal use (cough, cough, "Exceed", cough, cough).   

 

Your issue sounds like an electronics issue and should be easy to figure out with some test equipment or the manual, I use spare electronics and the manuals sometimes to diagnose problems. Sometimes the radio system can cause issues, having a spare can help.

if its a programable ESC there is a launch control settings for it to reduce wheelspin.

and 

On 5/14/2020 at 3:40 AM, steelo said:

Whoa...your pinion gear is huge....no wonder you have little torque

that could be a very big part of the issue :)

you have ALOT of KV your 4000kv at 11.1 volt would go 40000rpm (iknow the motor controller will reduce it).

 

but this means you can have alot lower geearing without missing out on speed but have plenty torque.

the good news is pinion gears are cheap so i would start there.

 

not an expert in this area at all but just upgraded a 1:10 from brushed to 4200kv brushless my self and it is a beast now. but i also have alot smaller pinion gear

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I would also imagine the motor is getting burning hot with that gearing....

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