Can I just rag on CompTIA for a minute?

[The_Prycer]

So I took-and passed-my A+ exams right around the time when the 800 series was transitioning in to the 900. I elected for the 900 because gotta get in on that new technology. Sometimes I'm still kept awake at night by my anger towards certain things about that test even though I'll never have to take it again.

 

To this day I remember a simulation that just needed you to disable a startup program. Simple enough, just go to msconfig through the search bar and done. Except the search bar didn't work. Okay cool, gonna right click on my way to the task manager and use the file tab to start a new process. NOPE. Alrighty then, I guess I'll just use the command line to get there. LOL naw.

 

Want to know the solution to this nonsense? 

 

I distinctly remember having to click my way through the applications folder and working my down through the system so I could access the msconfig folder. WHY?!

 

I know I shouldn't still be salty about it, but I am because it took me the same amount of time to finish that sim off versus the entire rest of my test.

 

Also having been working as an office IT guy now for the last 3 years I can attest to having never needed to use this method to get to msconfig because it's such a ridiculous edge case that anyone who regularly uses that method to do it is probably a Wizard.

[GrockleTD]

I too agree that compliance is annoying and outdated

[Windows7ge]

Years ago I had taken CompTIA A+ for both Entry Level Computer Repair, & CCENT. I can say without a doubt the tests barely question your actual ability to help or troubleshoot a real world scenario. Most of it is just arbitrary questions about the curriculum.

 

I find the CompTIA A+ certs to be borderline useless. If you have no certs. sure, go for it it'll look nice. If you already have certs and want to expand. Don't waste your time on it. It tells you what you know about the curriculum it doesn't test you on what you can offer a workplace.

[BuckGup]

Yeah CompTIA seems like it's targeted towards 8th graders

[porina]

I didn't do A+ but saw others doing it when I went in for a N+. Based on what I saw of A+, I was wondering if I could pass it without any preparation. Since work weren't paying for the exam, and I didn't want to, I might never know. Would a long time enthusiast have sufficient knowledge to get through it?

 

I'm going on CCENT later this year, again work paid so can't complain. Others in department who went on earlier session have failed it, including our guy who is supposed to be experienced in networking. Note we're not focused in networking, beyond needing to know about it to support network connected products.

[YoFavRussian]

2 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Yeah CompTIA seems like it's targeted towards 8th graders

But a majority of the people out of my class didn't pass it even through a full semester of straight study time. 12th grade by the way, must be a lot of people with handicapped intelligence now.

 

The certifications aren't always worth your time anyhow, sure you can have an A+ and a Net+ but are you really qualified with almost no prior experience? Experience is a must in the IT field any position you can get you should take and build a reputation. Seriously with the amount of strange stuff a certification sometimes will mean almost nothing to an employer.

[porina]

5 minutes ago, YoFavRussian said:

The certifications aren't always worth your time anyhow, sure you can have an A+ and a Net+ but are you really qualified with almost no prior experience?

How do you get experience when starting out? Could these offer you some advantage over others that don't have it?

 

Having said that, when I did N+, everyone on that course was there because their existing employment paid to send them there. No one was doing it for themselves. It would be rather expensive to do it that way. Maybe if you self study and only paid for exam?

[TetraSky]

33 minutes ago, The_Prycer said:

even though I'll never have to take it again.

What do you mean you'll never have to take it again. Your certification expire in like 3 years.

https://certification.comptia.org/faq/a/how-long-does-the-a-certification-last

It used to be a lifetime and those who got it before that changed get to keep it as such, but for anyone who get the certification now, it's only good for 3 years. Which, while it can make sense because tech is ever evolving... 3 years is just WAY too f'ing short. It should've been at the minimum 10 years (Just look at tech from 10 years ago and today... Other than it being more powerful, it's basically the same shit)

 

[YoFavRussian]

1 minute ago, porina said:

How do you get experience when starting out? Could these offer you some advantage over others that don't have it?

 

Having said that, when I did N+, everyone on that course was there because their existing employment paid to send them there. No one was doing it for themselves. It would be rather expensive to do it that way. Maybe if you self study and only paid for exam?

It might be the area I'm in, helpdesks are a decent area to start building experience, and you kind of just follow around the superiors and observer or help, builds a reputation as well. I just know that a lot of the people who I graduated with who also had gotten their A+ said that getting a job with it isn't much better. I have a couple different certs. A+ N+ OSHA 10 and some funky DC Electronics Module one or something of the sort. I guess I blame the N+ because it's from the same vendor. and my bad experience was more than likely from scheduling conflicts because of college.

[YoFavRussian]

5 minutes ago, TetraSky said:

What do you mean you'll never have to take it again. Your certification expire in like 3 years.

https://certification.comptia.org/faq/a/how-long-does-the-a-certification-last

It used to be a lifetime and those who got it before that changed get to keep it as such, but for anyone who get the certification now, it's only good for 3 years. Which, while it can make sense because tech is ever evolving... 3 years is just WAY too f'ing short. It should've been at the minimum 10 years (Just look at tech from 10 years ago and today... Other than it being more powerful, it's basically the same shit)

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, one of my instructors did say that you can renew it with proof of continuing education / having a job related to the IT field.

[The_Prycer]

10 minutes ago, TetraSky said:

What do you mean you'll never have to take it again. Your certification expire in like 3 years.

https://certification.comptia.org/faq/a/how-long-does-the-a-certification-last

It used to be a lifetime and those who got it before that changed get to keep it as such, but for anyone who get the certification now, it's only good for 3 years. Which, while it can make sense because tech is ever evolving... 3 years is just WAY too f'ing short. It should've been at the minimum 10 years (Just look at tech from 10 years ago and today... Other than it being more powerful, it's basically the same shit)

 

I complete CEU's, pay CompTIA's renewal fee, and it keeps my cert active. Mine just rolled over in July so I've got another 3 years to complete more continuing education stuff.

[The_Prycer]

24 minutes ago, porina said:

I didn't do A+ but saw others doing it when I went in for a N+. Based on what I saw of A+, I was wondering if I could pass it without any preparation. Since work weren't paying for the exam, and I didn't want to, I might never know. Would a long time enthusiast have sufficient knowledge to get through it?

 

I'm going on CCENT later this year, again work paid so can't complain. Others in department who went on earlier session have failed it, including our guy who is supposed to be experienced in networking. Note we're not focused in networking, beyond needing to know about it to support network connected products.

I had to eat the cost of my A+. My N+ and CCNA are both going to be out of pocket as well, but I see it as an investment in myself that I'm willing to make. I figure the risk to reward is good enough that I'm willing to drop some $ to move up the ladder.

[The_Prycer]

34 minutes ago, Windows7ge said:

Years ago I had taken CompTIA A+ for both Entry Level Computer Repair, & CCENT. I can say without a doubt the tests barely question your actual ability to help or troubleshoot a real world scenario. Most of it is just arbitrary questions about the curriculum.

 

I find the CompTIA A+ certs to be borderline useless. If you have no certs. sure, go for it it'll look nice. If you already have certs and want to expand. Don't waste your time on it. It tells you what you know about the curriculum it doesn't test you on what you can offer a workplace.

I think they should just give you a non-working unit, some tools, and tell you to fix it. Maybe you'll need the tools, maybe not, but knowing how to actually diagnose and solve common problems is better than knowing I can access msconfig 4 different ways.

 

18 minutes ago, porina said:

How do you get experience when starting out? Could these offer you some advantage over others that don't have it?

 

 

Fortunately Geek Squad at Best Buy doesn't require any experience in fixing computers to work there. Definitely not the best job, but it gave me enough experience to where I could have verifiable work history in diagnosing and fixing computers versus my "at home" experience so I could move up in the world. I actually started as computer sales and managed to get an internal transfer to Geek Squad while I was still studying my A+ book since I could demonstrate to management that I actually knew stuff about the magic gaming boxes.

[YoFavRussian]

4 minutes ago, The_Prycer said:

I think they should just give you a non-working unit, some tools, and tell you to fix it. Maybe you'll need the tools, maybe not, but knowing how to actually diagnose and solve common problems is better than knowing I can access msconfig 4 different ways.

 

Fortunately Geek Squad at Best Buy doesn't require any experience in fixing computers to work there. Definitely not the best job, but it gave me enough experience to where I could have verifiable work history in diagnosing and fixing computers versus my "at home" experience so I could move up in the world. I actually started as computer sales and managed to get an internal transfer to Geek Squad while I was still studying my A+ book since I could demonstrate to management that I actually knew stuff about the magic gaming boxes.

Yeah, helpdesk are really the only place you can go for experience starting out, every field has a place that you use to start out and work your way up from there. A surgeon isn't instantly thrown into surgery, could lead to catastrophic issues.

[porina]

8 minutes ago, The_Prycer said:

I complete CEU's, pay CompTIA's renewal fee, and it keeps my cert active. Mine just rolled over in July so I've got another 3 years to complete more continuing education stuff.

Can I ask what value you see in keeping the certs active? Maybe I'm looking at it a different way, that the certs are useful as a stepping stone to bigger things. Once you get established, you don't "need" them any more.

 

If I remember correctly, if you take and pass a "higher" CompTIA cert, it refreshes your lower ones too. So there is some incentive to progress that way if interested.

 

I also wonder if they still have some residual value even if they expire. While you can no longer claim to be certified, you can still state you had it at some point.

5 minutes ago, The_Prycer said:

I had to eat the cost of my A+. My N+ and CCNA are both going to be out of pocket as well, but I see it as an investment in myself that I'm willing to make. I figure the risk to reward is good enough that I'm willing to drop some $ to move up the ladder.

Again if you don't mind me asking, are you paying for a course, or self studying and just paying for the exam? The N+ course I went on, it was good, but it was also a serious outlay. I wouldn't have the personal motivation to pay for it, but recognise different people see different value in things.

[The_Prycer]

3 minutes ago, porina said:

Can I ask what value you see in keeping the certs active? Maybe I'm looking at it a different way, that the certs are useful as a stepping stone to bigger things. Once you get established, you don't "need" them any more.

 

If I remember correctly, if you take and pass a "higher" CompTIA cert, it refreshes your lower ones too. So there is some incentive to progress that way if interested.

 

I also wonder if they still have some residual value even if they expire. While you can no longer claim to be certified, you can still state you had it at some point.

Again if you don't mind me asking, are you paying for a course, or self studying and just paying for the exam? The N+ course I went on, it was good, but it was also a serious outlay. I wouldn't have the personal motivation to pay for it, but recognise different people see different value in things.

I like to keep my cert active since I worked hard to get it. No other reason than pride.

 

As for studying, I did everything by myself. Picked up Mike Myer's book on Amazon and just read it on my lunch break every day until I felt like I had a shot at taking the test. Luckily there was an exam voucher discount in his book, so I guess that was nice.

[Kisai]

16 hours ago, The_Prycer said:

So I took-and passed-my A+ exams right around the time when the 800 series was transitioning in to the 900. I elected for the 900 because gotta get in on that new technology. Sometimes I'm still kept awake at night by my anger towards certain things about that test even though I'll never have to take it again.

 

 

I took the A+ because of reasons that I won't get into. Suffice it to say, I didn't study for it at all (didn't purchase any of the training materials, didn't take any courses, etc) and passed it at a high level. This was back long enough ago that I can see 13 years of emails from CompTIA begging me to re-certify for 200 series. I have not, and have not needed the certification, ever.

 

While some jobs want you to have it, it's ultimately just taking credit for skills you already have if you've been working on computers forever. For the example you gave, it's likely that "answer" was in their expensive training materials. It's not even the the way Microsoft would want you do it. This is why I don't like these credential exams, they want you to do things in a way that isn't productive, even if it's technically correct.

 

Which is the point. These tests are not skill tests, they are memorization. If you can memorize how to do amazingly inefficient things, you can get the credential, and thus get hired to companies who only want the credential because it acts like a Warranty that you "know" what the certification asks, not necessarily that you can do it.

 

For the record, the test I took way back then, was still asking how to fix printers connected via parallel ports. You know, when every printer was USB or networked in an Enterprise environment. 

 

Any serious company would not look at or care about the credentials after the interview. It's something they might filter employees by, that's all you need it for.

 

[LAwLz]

What I always find fascinating with threads regarding certification is that they often contain a large portion of users with little to no work experience talking about the importance of certs or lack thereof.

There are never any real recruiters in these threads either. You know, the people who actually determine if certs are valued or not when applying for a job.

 

The way I see it, certs are great if you want to increase your changes of getting a job. If two people apply for a job, both perform well on the interview, and both have somewhat similar merits, then a cert might be the thing that swings the opinion of the employer towards one candidate.

 

You will never get a job solely because you have a cert, but having a cert can make you stick out from the competition.

[The_Prycer]

3 hours ago, Kisai said:

 

 

Any serious company would not look at or care about the credentials after the interview. It's something they might filter employees by, that's all you need it for.

 

My entire justification for getting the A+ was this reason alone. I'm working my way up through the Net+, CCNA, Security+, and others simply to have some extra notches on my CV so that I can compete in the job market. Once I'm secure in a position that can feed my Roth IRA while letting me live comfortably I'll probably let them all expire

 

I agree that I found the test to be entirely based on memorization over practical skill. No one cares if you know what an acronym stands for if you can't implement it, but every job down here wants a 4+ year degree, 4 years of experience, and certs for anything higher level than basic help desk so I gotta compete with people living off Ramen and potted meat because I chose not to put myself in debt over a degree and instead do construction to make money right out of school.

[The_Prycer]

3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

What I always find fascinating with threads regarding certification is that they often contain a large portion of users with little to no work experience talking about the importance of certs or lack thereof.

There are never any real recruiters in these threads either. You know, the people who actually determine if certs are valued or not when applying for a job.

 

The way I see it, certs are great if you want to increase your changes of getting a job. If two people apply for a job, both perform well on the interview, and both have somewhat similar merits, then a cert might be the thing that swings the opinion of the employer towards one candidate.

 

You will never get a job solely because you have a cert, but having a cert can make you stick out from the competition.

I think certs are certainly helpful in getting your foot in the door and passing through HR's gatekeeping, but there was very little on the actual A+ that I wasn't aware of (port numbers and certain acronyms being an exception) before taking the test.

 

The sentiment of people harping on how important a cert is sounds like my parents always telling me I wouldn't get a good job if I didn't go to college. So I became a construction worker right out of high school instead just for spite.

 

Then I got tired of working in the heat, so I picked up a part-time computer sales gig at Best Buy, transferred that in to being Geek Squad, and now I work in an air-conditioned office doing IT for a small brokerage firm.

[Joluch]

Nothing beats real life experience that's for sure.

 

I remember my manager was constantly trying get all the techs to go and do the A+, even those who's been in the business for decades. The rationale? They were running ads that says "serviced by certified technicians."

 

Eventually the company made up it's own little web course/quizz, got everyone to do it and called it a certificate.

[The_Prycer]

1 minute ago, Joluch said:

Nothing beats real life experience that's for sure.

 

I remember my manager was constantly trying get all the techs certified for A+, even those who's been in the business for decades. The rationale? They were running ads that says "serviced by certified technicians."

 

Eventually the company made up it's own little web course/quizz, got everyone to do it and called it a certificate.

One of the reasons I decided to get in IT is I kept hearing about how your actual level of experience is what counted at the end of the day over any piece of paper you had and that appealed to me. I've had my share of managers that were hired simply because they had a 4 year degree and no relevant work experience and it always left a sour taste in my mouth having to teach my boss how to do their job.

[Joluch]

7 minutes ago, The_Prycer said:

I've had my share of managers that were hired simply because they had a 4 year degree and no relevant work experience

I find it interesting how most layperson think that if you have a computer science degree then you must be good at using/fixing Windows/MacOS. I'm not sure how universal it is, but when I took Comp Sci, there was no need to even have to ever use Windows or MacOS.

[The_Prycer]

2 minutes ago, Joluch said:

I find it interesting how most layperson think that if you have a computer science degree then you must be good at using/fixing Windows/MacOS. I'm not sure how universal it is, but when I took Comp Sci, there was no need to even have to ever use Windows or MacOS.

I took a few college classes and Comp Sci was basically "Intro to Computers."

 

Now I'm sure someone with a 4 year Comp Sci degree knows things about computers, but I've found through my professional life that there are some really dumb people with degrees.

[TheKDub]

21 hours ago, The_Prycer said:

So I took-and passed-my A+ exams right around the time when the 800 series was transitioning in to the 900. I elected for the 900 because gotta get in on that new technology. Sometimes I'm still kept awake at night by my anger towards certain things about that test even though I'll never have to take it again.

I took mine at the same time, though had to take 800 instead of 900. Its been so long that I can't remember any specifics, but I do remember there being plenty of BS on the test.

 

What makes it even better is that the certification 'expires' after a few years, which is also BS.