Would you recommend going 100% 4G?

[IAmAndre]

Hi,

 

My internet connection has been terrible for the past 6 weeks or so and I'm tired of spending 20 minutes on the phone with my ISP and have a technician at home every week just for the problem to appear 2 hours after they're gone.

So I'm considering switching to 4G and buy an adequate router. I've made some tests and saw that the download speed should be a tad faster (16.9mbps vs 14.4mbps) while the upload speed should be about 100 times faster (11.5mbps vs 0.94mbps). Yeah cable internet sucks here, but we should finally get fiber internet within 2-3 months according to a technician, so nothing official here.

I've done some tests in online gaming and while some games are totally unplayable, the ones I play the most run fine, especially considering the fact that with the issues I'm having I sometimes get disconnected. Yesterday morning I had a ping of 800 at Apex but it usually stays between 80 and 120.

Now I'd like to know what are the perks of using a network connection rather than a cables one on the long run. What else should I test?

 

[Fasauceome]

I had a mysterious problem with my internet that my modem supplier was able to point out to me, I had too high upstream power levels. Didn't specifically know what that meant, but I was able to get our cable company to fix it. Try contacting your modem manufacturer, if they're not the same as your cable provider.

[Lurick]

The biggest thing is that you'll need to find a provider that either doesn't kneecap you around 25GB or 50GB of data/month and allows tethering as well. While the tethering thing isn't too bad, at least from what I've seen, most companies will cap the tethered data to even less, at like 15GB or so a month unless you pay a lot more. So I would say you could maybe do 4G for your gaming and then swap back over to cable when you need to download something or are just browsing the internet.

[Donut417]

4 minutes ago, IAmAndre said:

Yeah cable internet sucks here

Are you sure your on Cable internet (Coax) and not DSL? Because that sounds like some DSL level service there. I have cable internet and I have 150/10 service. Hell I think the slowest service my provider even gives is 25 Mbps. 

 

To answer your question I would NOT go to an LTE connection 100%. Why?

 

1) Higher latency 

2) Limits (I dont care if your provider claims "Unlimited") there are limits. Either you will be deprioritized or throttled at some point. Most providers in the US is about 25 to 50 Gigs before this happens. 

3) Congestion. Congestion will vary through out the day but you get heavily congested on that tower and your service will suck bad. 

 

With that being said I think cellular data needs to mature more. The hope is 5G will have the capacity and speeds to compete with wired broadband providers, who knows though. 

[goto10]

the problem with 4g is get a antenna near your house that is not being loaded, saturated with lots of other clients

 

if you can get that without a datacap, yes is doable for youtube, netflix and similar type of sites or contents

 

the problem is gaming, those 4g connections have unstable pings

 

a friend had to buy one of these 4g and some days ot does well others he hates the connection deeply, specially in the nights, when everybody is on their homes and use the service, the experience degrades badly on those moments

[IAmAndre]

14 minutes ago, fasauceome said:

I had a mysterious problem with my internet that my modem supplier was able to point out to me, I had too high upstream power levels. Didn't specifically know what that meant, but I was able to get our cable company to fix it. Try contacting your modem manufacturer, if they're not the same as your cable provider.

Actually they provided a router but I use my own router. I tried both but they are all having the same issue, theirs is doing even worse actually.

[IAmAndre]

22 minutes ago, Lurick said:

The biggest thing is that you'll need to find a provider that either doesn't kneecap you around 25GB or 50GB of data/month and allows tethering as well. While the tethering thing isn't too bad, at least from what I've seen, most companies will cap the tethered data to even less, at like 15GB or so a month unless you pay a lot more. So I would say you could maybe do 4G for your gaming and then swap back over to cable when you need to download something or are just browsing the internet.

I did the math and for what I'm paying right now (around $50) I'd get around 62GB per month + 1 or 2 GB for free every day from midnight to 8AM. So that's over 90GB/month. Not too bad for my use case. I would also get nearly unlimited phone calls, like $90 worth of phone calls every 15 days.

Tethering wouldn't be an issue since they don't care how you use your internet. I'd still need to buy a router myself because they also have an offer with router included but it's much less interesting and quite limited.

[Fasauceome]

6 minutes ago, IAmAndre said:

Actually they provided a router but I use my own router. I tried both but they are all having the same issue, theirs is doing even worse actually.

The modem is what I'm wondering about though

[IAmAndre]

Just now, fasauceome said:

The modem is what I'm wondering about though

Both routers have a modem included.

[IAmAndre]

22 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Are you sure your on Cable internet (Coax) and not DSL? Because that sounds like some DSL level service there. I have cable internet and I have 150/10 service. Hell I think the slowest service my provider even gives is 25 Mbps. 

It's DSL indeed. ADSL actually, and the technician told me that we would be switching to VDSL in August.

 

24 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

1) Higher latency 

2) Limits (I dont care if your provider claims "Unlimited") there are limits. Either you will be deprioritized or throttled at some point. Most providers in the US is about 25 to 50 Gigs before this happens. 

3) Congestion. Congestion will vary through out the day but you get heavily congested on that tower and your service will suck bad. 

That's what I'm the most concerned about. I haven't used 4G as main internet in a while so I'm not sure how reliable it is in my particular case. With that said, do you think it would still be worse than my DSL thing?

[IAmAndre]

25 minutes ago, goto10 said:

the problem with 4g is get a antenna near your house that is not being loaded, saturated with lots of other clients

 

if you can get that without a datacap, yes is doable for youtube, netflix and similar type of sites or contents

 

the problem is gaming, those 4g connections have unstable pings

 

a friend had to buy one of these 4g and some days ot does well others he hates the connection deeply, specially in the nights, when everybody is on their homes and use the service, the experience degrades badly on those moments

That's a big concern for me too. I tried 3 network services in my neighborhood and while some offer an atrocious connection, one of them is decent. Maybe I should just give it a try for a month and see how it goes.

I also like the fact that can take the router with you when you're on the go.

[Donut417]

1 hour ago, IAmAndre said:

switching to VDSL in August.

 

VDSL is only a touch better. Keep in mind its NOT Fiber. Its Fiber to the VRAD. You will still be on that same copper phone line. Depending on your provider, that copper phone line could be in bad shape and that could be causing your issues. 

 

1 hour ago, IAmAndre said:

it would still be worse than my DSL thing?

Hard to say. 

[goto10]

1 hour ago, IAmAndre said:

It's DSL indeed. ADSL actually, and the technician told me that we would be switching to VDSL in August.

 

That's what I'm the most concerned about. I haven't used 4G as main internet in a while so I'm not sure how reliable it is in my particular case. With that said, do you think it would still be worse than my DSL thing?

vdsl is pretty much the same as adsl, it skips one step in the process but remains being a pair of copper, which is really bad these days, weather, radio signals and distance from the isp central make it just a pita, is unstable by nature on recent years

 

coaxial or optical fiber is the only real options one has these days apart from 4g and future 5 g and hopefully whatever mr elon musk comes with hos low orbit internet satellites, but that is a couple years away

[IAmAndre]

2 hours ago, Donut417 said:

VDSL is only a touch better. Keep in mind its NOT Fiber. Its Fiber to the VRAD. You will still be on that same copper phone line. Depending on your provider, that copper phone line could be in bad shape and that could be causing your issues. 

 

Hard to say. 

Fiber is supposed to come next, because people have fiber like a km away from me, but even then their upload speed is quite the same. I'd expect it within 6 months or so but I'm not sure if it's worth waiting that long.

[goto10]

if you are being migrated to vdsl, fiber will not come in 6 months, no company would invest money if they plan to go ftth

 

if you cant have at least coaxial, hfc, i would move to another isp if there are options

[Alex Atkin UK]

On 8/3/2019 at 6:02 PM, Donut417 said:

VDSL is only a touch better. Keep in mind its NOT Fiber. Its Fiber to the VRAD. You will still be on that same copper phone line. Depending on your provider, that copper phone line could be in bad shape and that could be causing your issues. 

 

Hard to say. 

VDSL is more than a "touch" better, if you are relatively close to the cabinet but were relatively far from the telephone exchange.

 

I got 3Mbit on ADSL2+, 80Mbit on VDSL, now sadly down to 63Mbit due to lots of users using the service on the street.

 

VDSL is far from "basically the same" as ADSL, it removes potentially thousands of kilometers of cable from the equation.  Yes it uses similar technology, but being a much shorter run of cable can achieve much faster speeds if you aren't far from the cabinet.

I don't get why people speak of cable on here like its the holy grail, it can suffer issues just as VDSL can.  Which is better depends entirely on your local area, quality of your phone line, etc.  In the UK there are often areas where VDSL is more reliable than cable.  Cable can handle faster speeds when managed correctly, but at least over here has been known to be much more heavily contended, so more likely to slow down during peak hours.

[goto10]

14 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

 

VDSL is more than a "touch" better, if you are relatively close to the cabinet but were relatively far from the telephone exchange.

 

I got 3Mbit on ADSL2+, 80Mbit on VDSL, now sadly down to 63Mbit due to lots of users using the service on the street.

the problem with vdsl is that remains being a pair of coper wires, they do degrade over time, on some countries people steals the wires, copper recycle is a problem

 

distance is another problem, noise from electromagnetic sources,radios on area, smartphones, wifi signals, electric motors

 

these days everything affects a copper wire sadly

 

coaxial is abit better with noise, but a good fiber cant be beat

[Alex Atkin UK]

11 hours ago, goto10 said:

the problem with vdsl is that remains being a pair of coper wires, they do degrade over time, on some countries people steals the wires, copper recycle is a problem

 

distance is another problem, noise from electromagnetic sources,radios on area, smartphones, wifi signals, electric motors

 

these days everything affects a copper wire sadly

 

coaxial is abit better with noise, but a good fiber cant be beat

No denying that, thus why my speed reduced, interference from other lines.  But coax is still copper wire, usually much thicker so more profitable to steal.

But anyone on ADSL is likely to have a much better time on VDSL, best not to discourage people switching as its so worth it.  I ended up with TWO lines, if I was in range of cable I'd have one of each for added reliability.

In my experience, 4G is much much worse.  It can be really fast, but it can also be unusably slow.  I certainly couldn't go on it exclusively here, I couldn't even use it as an automatic backup as its so bad some days the router would just go awol.

[goto10]

8 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

No denying that, thus why my speed reduced, interference from other lines.  But coax is still copper wire, usually much thicker so more profitable to steal.

But anyone on ADSL is likely to have a much better time on VDSL, best not to discourage people switching as its so worth it.  I ended up with TWO lines, if I was in range of cable I'd have one of each for added reliability.

In my experience, 4G is much much worse.  It can be really fast, but it can also be unusably slow.  I certainly couldn't go on it exclusively here, I couldn't even use it as an automatic backup as its so bad some days the router would just go awol.

no, thankfully coaxial is not copper

 

the signal sent on those wires basically travel over the surface of the "copper" core, that is just a cheap metal with a thin coat of copper to do the real job

 

is not worth to steal or recycle, good and bad at the same time

 

about vdsl, is decent, yes, but in reality is just copper with lots of limitations, those limitations often decend on the isp, if they take case of the wires, the equipment, their infrastructure the service can be quite decent, in reality vdsl is just the end of the line and most isps are moving into hfc or pure ffth, fiber to the masses, so those dsl infrastructures become expensive and not cost effective

 

is a shame that 4g is not reliable, 5g could be better, theoretically, time will tell

 

something tells me that satellite internet will be better than 5g

[Alex Atkin UK]

On 8/5/2019 at 3:51 AM, goto10 said:

no, thankfully coaxial is not copper

 

the signal sent on those wires basically travel over the surface of the "copper" core, that is just a cheap metal with a thin coat of copper to do the real job

 

is not worth to steal or recycle, good and bad at the same time

 

about vdsl, is decent, yes, but in reality is just copper with lots of limitations, those limitations often decend on the isp, if they take case of the wires, the equipment, their infrastructure the service can be quite decent, in reality vdsl is just the end of the line and most isps are moving into hfc or pure ffth, fiber to the masses, so those dsl infrastructures become expensive and not cost effective

 

is a shame that 4g is not reliable, 5g could be better, theoretically, time will tell

 

something tells me that satellite internet will be better than 5g

I think you will find coax is a thick solid copper core.

Cable has to use much higher quality coax than satellite, and even satellite is a solid copper core, heck even my terrestrial cable is solid copper.  Copper coated cables are junk.

[goto10]

53 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

I think you will find coax is a thick solid copper core.

Cable has to use much higher quality coax than satellite, and even satellite is a solid copper core, heck even my terrestrial cable is solid copper.  Copper coated cables are junk.

you can take a coaxial cable, expose the core and then peel it off with a knife

 

if you start seeing more copper, well, great, the isp used a really expensive unnecesary coaxial cable i havent seen yet, but is very likely that you will see a silver colored metal instead

 

is the same both for antenna, for satellites and hfc

 

no one steals it really, but copper for dsl, that is a whole different story

[Alex Atkin UK]

Just now, goto10 said:

you can take a coaxial cable, expose the core and then peel it off with a knife

 

if you start seeing more copper, well, great, the isp used a really expensive unnecesary coaxial cable i havent seen yet, but is very likely that you will see a silver colored metal instead

 

is the same both for antenna, for satellites and hfc

 

no one steals it really, but copper for dsl, that is a whole different story

Is this in the US?  It could be down to your cable networks being so much older and so using what at the time was MORE expensive coax, but is not recommended these days as water ingress can make it perform worse.

In the UK I have never seen anything but solid copper coax.  Even the really cheap cables used for TV tends to skimp out on the outer sheathing being inadequately dense aluminium, but still use a solid copper core.

[Donut417]

3 hours ago, goto10 said:

you can take a coaxial cable, expose the core and then peel it off with a knife

 

if you start seeing more copper, well, great, the isp used a really expensive unnecesary coaxial cable i havent seen yet, but is very likely that you will see a silver colored metal instead

 

is the same both for antenna, for satellites and hfc

 

no one steals it really, but copper for dsl, that is a whole different story

That’s because much like Ethernet, Coax comes in full copper OR copper clad aluminum (cca). The lather is cheaper. Generally if you buy GOOD cabling it should be full copper. 

[goto10]

11 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

That’s because much like Ethernet, Coax comes in full copper OR copper clad aluminum (cca). The lather is cheaper. Generally if you buy GOOD cabling it should be full copper. 

all that is correct, but you dont know what the company doing the installation uses

 

as i mentioned, it doesnt have to be all copper to be good, the copper coating is good enough in reality

 

if the copper theft is a problem where you live, surely you will not get pure copper

 

if copper theft is not a problem, probably the installation will last alot so the company can afford more expensive wiring to keep people happy for longer