Apple is Reportedly Planning to Retire iTunes.

[79wjd]

25 minutes ago, Hellion said:

Literally nothing of value is lost here and those attempting to "one up" each other over which music streaming service is "better" is laughable.

 

 

 

Unless you buy it on a tangible format you'll never truly own it. Not to mention, you are putting control in the hands of a corporation over your continued ability to enjoy the product. I lost count of just how many people I have heard stories from that lost part of their "library" due to changes apple made.

 

 

 

Good riddance.

 

 

iTunes music is DRM free.

 

Nice try though.

[Hellion]

6 minutes ago, 79wjd said:

iTunes music is DRM free.

 

Nice try though.

I mentioned nothing about DRM.

 

Don't try so hard to read between the lines next time.

 

"Nice try though".

[79wjd]

6 minutes ago, Hellion said:

I mentioned nothing about DRM.

 

Don't try so hard to read between the lines next time.

 

"Nice try though".

No, you instead mentioned "tangible format" as being the only way to truly own something and continued with how when someone else has control of content then you're at their mercy.

 

But the fact that all iTunes music is DRM free means that it's completely out of Apple's control and competely within your control. Just as if you owned a physical disc -- because you can do exactly that -- own a physical copy completely I independent of Apple or anyone else.

[Hellion]

8 minutes ago, 79wjd said:

No, you instead mentioned "tangible format" as being the only way to truly own something and continued with how when someone else has control of content then you're at their mercy.

 

But the fact that all iTunes music is FRM free means that it's completely out of Apple's control and competely within your control. Just as if you owned a physical disc -- because you can do exactly that -- own a physical copy completely I independent of Apple or anyone else.

As long as itunes has their fingers on your media it's a problem.

 

It's not hard to find experiences where users have had data deleted due to "bugs" caused by apples updates or a conspiracy a while back where files went missing that weren't downloaded from their store.

 

They even released a statement with their usual template of "even though a tiny fraction of users are experiencing..." prefix.

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, Hellion said:

As long as itunes has their fingers on your media it's a problem.

Make a physical copy.

 

2 minutes ago, Hellion said:

It's not hard to find experiences where users have had data deleted due to "bugs" caused by apples updates or a conspiracy a while back where files went missing that weren't downloaded from their store.

If you buy something but don't download it, that's on you.

 

And every digital copy is subject to deletion by way of bugs.

[79wjd]

2 minutes ago, Hellion said:

As long as itunes has their fingers on your media it's a problem.

 

It's not hard to find experiences where users have had data deleted due to "bugs" caused by apples updates or a conspiracy a while back where files went missing that weren't downloaded from their store.

 

They even released a statement with their usual template of "even though a tiny fraction of users are experiencing..." prefix.

All iTunes music is already under the complete control of the user. If you CHOOSE to not back it up outside of iTunes then that is your choice. You're not at the mercy of Apple at all.

[Drak3]

Just now, 79wjd said:

All iTunes music is already under the complete control of the user.

Same if you ran Zune (and I believe Groove Music). The only people that got fucked over were those that basically deemed that the data they lost wasn't worth their time to begin with.

[Hellion]

There's a mitigation strategy for almost every problem. That's not the point though. Most users are lazy and quite frankly they shouldn't have to worry about having data loss due to ineptitude from apple.

 

It's not acceptable that windows updates deleted data, it's not acceptable that a certain recent Linux kernel update deleted data. Apple doesn't get a free pass here.

 

It shouldn't have happened.

[79wjd]

3 minutes ago, Hellion said:

There's a mitigation strategy for almost every problem. That's not the point though. Most users are lazy and quite frankly they shouldn't have to worry about having data loss due to ineptitude from apple.

 

It's not acceptable that windows updates deleted data, it's not acceptable that a certain recent Linux kernel update deleted data. Apple doesn't get a free pass here.

 

It shouldn't have happened.

It shouldn't happen, but it does. Bugs are an inevitability in all software. That doesn't make iTunes inherently shitty because you "don't" own the content (even though you absolutely own it and have just as much control as you would if you bought a physical disc). A bug can also cause the CD drive to destroy a disc that doesn't make physical media inherently bad.

[Hellion]

8 minutes ago, 79wjd said:

It shouldn't happen, but it does. Bugs are an inevitability in all software. That doesn't make iTunes inherently shitty because you "don't" own the content (even though you absolutely own it and have just as much control as you would if you bought a physical disc). A bug can also cause the CD drive to destroy a disc that doesn't make physical media inherently bad.

I'll wait for you to show me a manufacturing defect that was even a fraction as widespread that deleted data from users tangible media then.

[NumLock21]

I remember back in the old days during the 2nd or 3rd gen iPods, when you connect it to another computer with a clean installed iTunes, iTunes will show a message that says, iPod detected, do you want to sync with iTunes? Click Yes and because iTunes has a clean library, it wipes out all the music that's on your iPod.

iTunes is trash, never liked it, never will.

[79wjd]

23 minutes ago, Hellion said:

I'll wait for you to show me a manufacturing defect that was even a fraction as widespread that deleted data from users tangible media then.

Again, the user can easily create a practical infinite number of backups of the iTunes content they own, as much as you would like to pretend that iTunes content is exclusively under Apple's control.

 

The Xbox 360 eating discs comes to mind.

[MadmanRB]

Yeah the only thing itunes has beome is a bloated eyesore.

I actually liked itunes once upon a time but now.... nope let it die.

Though if apple doesn't replace it with something for pc users well there goes apple.

[Tech_Dreamer]

7 hours ago, NumLock21 said:

I remember back in the old days during the 2nd or 3rd gen iPods, when you connect it to another computer with a clean installed iTunes, iTunes will show a message that says, iPod detected, do you want to sync with iTunes? Click Yes and because iTunes has a clean library, it wipes out all the music that's on your iPod.

iTunes is trash, never liked it, never will.

i remember this happening to me a couple of times. was very annoying.

[vorticalbox]

and here i was hoping they were getting rid of the requirement of needing itunes just to put some music on ones phone.

[RejZoR]

So, are they expecting me to buy a Mac just to transfer MP3 music that I have or a ringtones to my iPhone? I'm not following how this will work...

[Guest]

Screen dump for those interested in what these new apps look like. Music is pretty much just iTunes. New miniplayer is cool, but probably was there all the time and I didn't notice. New icons look great. 

 

Spoiler

 

[Ertman]

I don't have a problem with iTunes on a PC...

 

I'll have to wait to see how this all shakes out, but segmenting the management of media seems like it can cause issues of its own.

[dalekphalm]

16 hours ago, Hellion said:

As long as itunes has their fingers on your media it's a problem.

 

It's not hard to find experiences where users have had data deleted due to "bugs" caused by apples updates or a conspiracy a while back where files went missing that weren't downloaded from their store.

 

They even released a statement with their usual template of "even though a tiny fraction of users are experiencing..." prefix.

Your argument doesn't make sense when someone can take those digital files and do whatever they want with them.

 

Such as: Backing them up (I do this), or burning them to CD (I used to do this when it was more common, and my old car had a CD player but no Bluetooth or MDI).

 

On the flip side, if someone bought a CD and scratched the fuck out of it, they're in the exact same boat as if someone bought some digital music files and then didn't back them up.

 

EDIT: On topic, I have no problem with this, assuming the replacement for Windows has all the features I need (which I have no doubt of). iTunes on PC has lagged behind the Mac release for a long time, unfortunately. I don't dislike it, but it certainly isn't as good as it could be.

[TechyBen]

15 hours ago, 79wjd said:

Again, the user can easily create a practical infinite number of backups of the iTunes content they own, as much as you would like to pretend that iTunes content is exclusively under Apple's control.

 

The Xbox 360 eating discs comes to mind.

No it's not [under Apple's control]. But after Win10 deleted some user files by accident, we can go "lol, you all need backups, not my problem". Me? I learnt to not trust Win10 updates (XP -> 8.1 and I knew in general it only touched OS files, and at most would kill my OS folder, not partition, and NOT files on other drives).

 

iTunes? iTunes I often found deleted stuff (and have reports of it doing so also, so not just my experience). Gave up on it totally as I hate the "sync" option on anything outside of Dropbox.

[dalekphalm]

16 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

No it's not [under Apple's control]. But after Win10 deleted some user files by accident, we can go "lol, you all need backups, not my problem". Me? I learnt to not trust Win10 updates (XP -> 8.1 and I knew in general it only touched OS files, and at most would kill my OS folder, not partition, and NOT files on other drives).

 

iTunes? iTunes I often found deleted stuff (and have reports of it doing so also, so not just my experience). Gave up on it totally as I hate the "sync" option on anything outside of Dropbox.

All true - but outside of actually downloading your files (and possibly syncing music to an iPhone, if it wasn't purchased through iTunes), you don't need to use iTunes to manage your music at all.

 

If you're listening to your music on your PC, for example, you can copy your entire collection out of iTunes, and use something like Fubar2000. You could even use one of those third party music sync programs (though I've never used one).

 

And any music purchased directly from iTunes can be downloaded straight to the iPhone, so syncing is really mostly required for non-iTunes music that you've imported/ripped.

[TechyBen]

2 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

All true - but outside of actually downloading your files (and possibly syncing music to an iPhone, if it wasn't purchased through iTunes), you don't need to use iTunes to manage your music at all.

 

If you're listening to your music on your PC, for example, you can copy your entire collection out of iTunes, and use something like Fubar2000. You could even use one of those third party music sync programs (though I've never used one).

 

And any music purchased directly from iTunes can be downloaded straight to the iPhone, so syncing is really mostly required for non-iTunes music that you've imported/ripped.

Yes. But those using iTunes, will probably click (or is it opt out?/default settings?) the itunes "manage my library" and yes, while I'm talking decades ago, this consisted of Apple syncing the new blank medea/PC/etc to everything, deleting everyone's existing library. OR deciding to "save HDD space by uploading to the cloud" and replacing everyone's (who had them) FLACs with poor MP3s or incorrectly matched songs (special edition live/singles swapped for the radio edit etc).

 

Once that happens a couple of times, it puts you off a product. Not fanboying or anything, just you don't go back to a restaurant that served you up a nightmare.

 

I did the same with Google music. It was a great idea. Except "play my music" only played cloud connected tracks, to which I had the 1 or 2 free ones that came with the Google account for free. Thus the 100s of tracks I have on my phone, only 2 played... so I just uninstalled it. I've got no time for that kind of broken by design system (checking back years later, still not fixed). I use the default android player or Samsung one (again, similar problems, one works well with the phone, the other only activates on voice commands  ).

[Valentyn]

10 hours ago, RejZoR said:

So, are they expecting me to buy a Mac just to transfer MP3 music that I have or a ringtones to my iPhone? I'm not following how this will work...

iTunes seems to be staying on Windows for now.

[dalekphalm]

Just now, TechyBen said:

Yes. But those using iTunes, will probably click (or is it opt out?/default settings?) the itunes "manage my library" and yes, while I'm talking decades ago, this consisted of Apple syncing the new blank medea/PC/etc to everything, deleting everyone's existing library. OR deciding to "save HDD space by uploading to the cloud" and replacing everyone's (who had them) FLACs with poor MP3s or incorrectly matched songs (special edition live/singles swapped for the radio edit etc).

None of that is default, as far as I'm aware (Plus iTunes doesn't support FLAC - you have to convert to ALAC before importing - or import a CD directly to ALAC).

 

You can certainly have iTunes manage your library if you want - that is independent of whether or not you want iTunes to sync your i-device automatically. You can have both, or one or the other, or neither.

Just now, TechyBen said:

Once that happens a couple of times, it puts you off a product. Not fanboying or anything, just you don't go back to a restaurant that served you up a nightmare.

True enough - but the music portion of iTunes is entirely DRM free (and pretty high quality AAC files - not as good as FLAC/ALAC, but still pretty damn good). Once you download the file, you can do whatever you want with it.

Just now, TechyBen said:

I did the same with Google music. It was a great idea. Except "play my music" only played cloud connected tracks, to which I had the 1 or 2 free ones that came with the Google account for free. Thus the 100s of tracks I have on my phone, only 2 played... so I just uninstalled it. I've got no time for that kind of broken by design system (checking back years later, still not fixed). I use the default android player or Samsung one (again, similar problems, one works well with the phone, the other only activates on voice commands  ).

No idea about this - not an Android user. But on an iPhone, you can download directly to your phone any music you "own" in your iTunes account. This does not affect your existing library at all.

[dalekphalm]

1 minute ago, Valentyn said:

iTunes seems to be staying on Windows for now.

I'm okay with that, as long as we still get the improved app eventually for Windows (assuming it's actually an improvement - which seems likely).