Is 450w Enough?

[R.C]

Hey there,

 

According to PC Part Picker, my build will use 359w. Is a corsair sf450w PS4 enough. Will operating near capacity on normal operation impact noise, heat, etc. Or should I splash out for the corsair sf600w PS4?

 

Many Thanks

RC

[Quadriplegic]

Uh, how about you tell us what system do you have?

[R.C]

Whoops, forgot to add.

 

ryzen 5 2600

Gigabyte rx 590

16gb ram

m.2 ssd (500gb)

 

all in an itx rig

[Screaming Doggo]

8 minutes ago, R.C said:

Whoops, forgot to add.

 

ryzen 5 2600

Gigabyte rx 590

16gb ram

m.2 ssd (500gb)

 

all in an itx rig

A good amount of headroom is always better. Because you might even overclock the system if i'm not wrong. So better go for the 650w

[Screaming Doggo]

12 minutes ago, R.C said:

Hey there,

 

According to PC Part Picker, my build will use 359w. Is a corsair sf450w PS4 enough. Will operating near capacity on normal operation impact noise, heat, etc. Or should I splash out for the corsair sf600w PS4?

 

Many Thanks

RC

Operating near capacity is not wrong. But it is still better to go for a 600w which you mentioned. A good headroom will always help

[seon123]

30 minutes ago, Roschlynn Dsouza said:

But it is still better to go for a 600w which you mentioned. A good headroom will always help

How will it help?

[mariushm]

It will be better to go with a 550w power supply, or a 600w model.

 

The RX 590 will consume up to 250w in games. The CPU will consume up to 80-100w... the rest of the system (motherboard, fans, mechanical hard drive if any) will consume around 20-40 watts.

So basically, you should reserve around 350 watts at minimum on 12v rail alone, because both cpu, video card and fans in your pc are powered from 12v.

 

The Corsair SF450 is rated for maximum 450w (that includes what it outputs on 3.3v and 5v) ... if you reserve 25-50 watts for those voltages, you're left with around 400w you can use on 12v, which is awfully close to what your video card and cpu together will consume.

Also, note that this wattage is only guaranteed as long as the ambient temperature is below 40 degrees Celsius. Higher end (more expensive, with longer warranties) power supplies are typically rated at 50 degrees Celsius.

Basically, if the temperature inside the case gets close to 40 degrees Celsius - which could happen in an ITX system with a power hungry RX 590 - the power supply is not guaranteed to supply 450w because it won't be able to cool itself adequately - you would derate the maximum output to let's say 350 watts.

 

It's OK to power a system at close to the maximum output of a power supply, but the downsides is that the power supply may be noisy, because it has to spin its internal fan fast in order to push air through the power supply and keep within reasonable temperatures.

The 600w model may have a beefier fan, may have thicker heatsinks or may have some higher end components that have higher efficiency, therefore at 350-400w it may produce less heat compared to the 450w model, so it may be less noisy.  

[Screaming Doggo]

30 minutes ago, seon123 said:

How will it help?

@mariushm has given the answer which i was going to type and send. He has explained it in a better way than me 

[seon123]

3 minutes ago, Roschlynn Dsouza said:

@mariushm has given the answer which i was going to type and send. He has explained it in a better way than me 

Well, no. 

10 minutes ago, mariushm said:

The RX 590 will consume up to 250w in games. The CPU will consume up to 80-100w... the rest of the system (motherboard, fans, mechanical hard drive if any) will consume around 20-40 watts.

So basically, you should reserve around 350 watts at minimum on 12v rail alone, because both cpu, video card and fans in your pc are powered from 12v.

 

The Corsair SF450 is rated for maximum 450w (that includes what it outputs on 3.3v and 5v) ... if you reserve 25-50 watts for those voltages, you're left with around 400w you can use on 12v, which is awfully close to what your video card and cpu together will consume.

What is powered by the 3,3V and 5V rails, that will total 50W?

Here's actual numbers for the wall power draw with Anandtech's HEDT system. The DC side will be about 10% lower. 

Spoiler

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13570/the-amd-radeon-rx-590-review/15

So about GPU TDP + 70W, which seems to pretty much always work for a gaming load. 

13 minutes ago, mariushm said:

Also, note that this wattage is only guaranteed as long as the ambient temperature is below 40 degrees Celsius. Higher end (more expensive, with longer warranties) power supplies are typically rated at 50 degrees Celsius.

Basically, if the temperature inside the case gets close to 40 degrees Celsius - which could happen in an ITX system with a power hungry RX 590 - the power supply is not guaranteed to supply 450w because it won't be able to cool itself adequately - you would derate the maximum output to let's say 350 watts.

Actually, we don't have to guess the derated output at 50°C at all. From Aris' review of the SF450 Gold:

Quote

On the product's official page, Corsair states that this product is engineered to meet maximum power output at a 40 °C temperature rating. However, in the technical specifications section, it's rated at 50 °C for full load. We'll determine which is right with our tests at greater than 40 °C ambient.

And it worked at full load well above 40°C. 

15 minutes ago, mariushm said:

The 600w model may have a beefier fan, may have thicker heatsinks or may have some higher end components that have higher efficiency, therefore at 350-400w it may produce less heat compared to the 450w model, so it may be less noisy.  

Let's look at the internals of the Gold versions. 

Spoiler

They look quite similar to me. The fan is also the same 92mm 3950RPM Corsair NR092L. 

As for the Platinum versions? The fan is the same model, again. And the internals are here. 

Spoiler

So much for the bigger heatsinks and beefier fan. 

All pictures and the quote from the reviews of the PSUs on Tomshardware. 

As for the efficiency, for the Platinum versions, the difference is about 0,5% at most. Pretty much nothing. The 600W does however have a quieter fan profile. It won't matter at idle, since it has a non disableable semi passive mode. At ~320W, it will be ~1400RPM Vs ~1700RPM. With a 92mm fan, that shouldn't be much of an issue. ~16dBA Vs ~21dBA. Numbers from Cybenetics. 

[IAmAndre]

I'm personally using a 400W PSU with a Ryzen 5 2600X and a Vega 56, I guess because I like living on the edge. On my testing, my systems crashed once because for power reason, but that's because I was using the Turbo mode of the graphics card and was running a benchmark. While I would recommend getting a more powerful PSU, I wouldn't recommend 600W unless the price difference is minimal. A good 500W PSU should be enough.

[mariushm]

5 minutes ago, seon123 said:

Well, no. 

What is powered by the 3,3V and 5V rails, that will total 50W?

Motherboard chipset, maybe onboard devices (network chip, audio chip) m.2 SSDs are powered using 3.3v which may or may not be direct from PSU or produced from 12v ... sata SSDs use only 5v, mechanical hard drives use 5v (for electronics) and 12v (for the motors)... the RAM slots may be powered from 5v on some motherboards.

I don't know if it consumes 50w ... I just said it's best to reserve a "power budget" of 50w ... what if you end up with 3-4 mechanical hard drives like me, which consume 15-20w just idling?

 

5 minutes ago, seon123 said:

Here's actual numbers for the wall power draw with Anandtech's HEDT system. The DC side will be about 10% lower. 

  Hide contents

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13570/the-amd-radeon-rx-590-review/15

 

That's 363w-380w in a single game, Battlefield 1 ... in other games or during Cinebench or Blender or other scenarios it may be a bit more power hungry.

They use a 1000w power supply to benchmark, so assume around 94-95% efficiency at that wattage.

 

Look again and see that I did not say the 450w model won't work,  just that it would be safer to go with a higher wattage model.

 

 

5 minutes ago, seon123 said:

So about GPU TDP + 70W, which seems to pretty much always work for a gaming load. 

Actually, we don't have to guess the derated output at 50°C at all. From Aris' review of the SF450 Gold:

And it worked at full load well above 40°C. 

Hey, I can only go by what's written officially on the page. You can never know if and when they're gonna release a new revision which will actually derate at 40c ambient or will be specified at 40c ambient.

 

5 minutes ago, seon123 said:

Let's look at the internals of the Gold versions. 

  Hide contents

 

 

They look quite similar to me. The fan is also the same 92mm 3950RPM Corsair NR092L. 

As for the Platinum versions? The fan is the same model, again. And the internals are here. 

  Reveal hidden contents

So much for the bigger heatsinks and beefier fan. 

All pictures and the quote from the reviews of the PSUs on Tomshardware. 

As for the efficiency, for the Platinum versions, the difference is about 0,5% at most. Pretty much nothing. The 600W does however have a quieter fan profile. It won't matter at idle, since it has a non disableable semi passive mode. At ~320W, it will be ~1400RPM Vs ~1700RPM. With a 92mm fan, that shouldn't be much of an issue. ~16dBA Vs ~21dBA. Numbers from Cybenetics. 

Dude, do I have to go through every component on each power supply to point you the differences between them? I don't feel like it, don't care that much to win an argument.

Here's the 450w model (jonnyguru review) :

 

See those empty spaces  ^^^  to the right of the metal bit?

 

You have there 4 mosfets which handle the 12v regulation ... you have up to 38A of current on 12v, which gets split across 4 mosfets, resulting in 9.5A per mosfet. 

The 600w model may have the full set of 6 mosfets soldered there ... so at the same 450w threshold there's gonna be 38A across 6 mosfets or just 6.5A per mosfet.

The mosfets may be 95% efficient at 6A but only 90-92% efficient at 9.5A

With 6 mosfets each mosfet has less losses (due to smaller current per mosfet) and heat radiates into the case of the power supply through a much larger area (there's a thermal pad connecting the top of the mosfets to the case, helping with the heat dissipation, the big part of heat still radiates in PCB and in that heatsink though )

The 600w may have a slightly beefier bridge rectifier (ex a 15A rectifier instead of a 10A rectifier...), which could result in half a watt or so less losses. I don't know, I can't be bothered to compare each model and spot the changes. There may be tiny changes in the power factor correction circuit ... I have no idea.

Some rectification diodes on the heatsinks may be slightly stronger (and therefore higher efficiency) on the 600w ... not sure, i didn't look it up.

 

So while the components on top may be the same VISUALLY (heatsinks and fan and other crap), there are differences between the models.

 

 

[geo3]

I'm running  a 2700x OCd to 4.2 all core 1.33v, and a GTX 1070ti on a Corsair SF450 just fine. You don't need more unless you plan to get a much beefier CPU/GPU combo. 

[mariushm]

3 minutes ago, geo3 said:

I'm running  a 2700x OCd to 4.2 all core 1.33v, and a GTX 1070ti on a Corsair SF450 just fine. You don't need more unless you plan to get a much beefier CPU/GPU combo. 

gtx 1070 ti consumes up to 175w (as much as a RX 570)

RX 590 consumes up to 250w.

 

2700x overclocked like you say won't consume more than 125-150w

 

[hello_there_123]

Yes

[Stefan Payne]

4 hours ago, R.C said:

Whoops, forgot to add.

 

ryzen 5 2600

Gigabyte rx 590

16gb ram

m.2 ssd (500gb)

 

all in an itx rig

Easily.

You don't want much more in an ITX Build anyway...

 

Real power consumption, with VSYNC is more in the lower range -> 200-300W or so.

[Stefan Payne]

2 hours ago, seon123 said:

What is powered by the 3,3V and 5V rails, that will total 50W?

No Idea.

My HX750i says my Ryzen 1700 uses around 5A on 5V and up to 5A on 3,3V.

 

 

2 hours ago, seon123 said:

So much for the bigger heatsinks and beefier fan. 

As for the efficiency, for the Platinum versions, the difference is about 0,5% at most. Pretty much nothing.

There is one important difference though:
The Gold Version has a not so good fan controller, one that doesn't have a good hysteresis. The Platinum has an MCU, if I'm not mistaken.

@jonnyGURU might confirm or deny that.

 

 

Anyway: The new Silverstone units with 92mm look pretty god as well.

 

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

There is one important difference though:
The Gold Version has a not so good fan controller, one that doesn't have a good hysteresis. The Platinum has an MCU, if I'm not mistaken.

@jonnyGURU might confirm or deny that.

 

 

Right. The Platinum versions use an MCU for the fan controller.