WAN show May 10, 2019 - Autism

[Autoferthesis]

In the latest WAN Show the topic of Autism and Aspergers' syndrome gets brought up. As someone with diagnosed with Autism I believe that Linus covered this topic extremely poorly. The views expressed seem uninformed, and dismissive of individuals with mental disorders and other invisible illnesses. 

"Aspergers is no longer considered by the WHO a real disorder. Because, to say that feeling socially awkward and, like, you're made uncomfortable about certain things... there's a reason they call it autism spectrum disorder. Because as far as I'm concerned, who's not on it." - Linus

 

 

To Linus, Luke, any anyone who wants to listen,

Yes, Aspergers is no longer recognized as its own disorder. This is because it has been reclassified as part of the Autism spectrum. It did not go away, people who were diagnosed with Aspergers are not suddenly neurotypical. Aspies still have Autism and it's a real disorder, with serious effects. Yes, it's been classified as a spectrum. There are high functioning and low functioning people with Autism, but as to "who doesn't have autism": Many, many people don't have autism. Being inclined towards a subject doesn't mean you have autism, having a hard time with social situations doesn't make you Autistic. I cannot tell you if you're on the spectrum, and unless you're a trained psychologist then you are also not qualified to say if you have Autism. 

Many other conditions have the same problem with people diagnosing themselves as a disease because they hear a description and see a part of themselves that could be a reduced version of that aspect. 

• Being sad does not mean you have Depression, or that what you think "depressed" feels like is anywhere near the magnitude of the feeling that actually depressed people feel
• Having different moods does not mean you are Bipolar, or that your moods are anywhere near the levels that they feel
• Just because you're jumpy does not mean you have PTSD, or that what you experience is anywhere close to what they experience
• Being socially awkward or being uncomfortable about certain things does NOT mean you're on the Autism spectrum, or that what you're experiencing is anywhere close to what they feel

I feel a lot of the misconceptions about invisible illnesses is that most people rarely notice a moderate case of these disorders: people with milder cases are able, through a lot of time and effort, to more or less blend in. But that doesn't mean that the underlying issues aren't there or that they'd be able to function without their coping mechanisms. People that see serious cases can easily misinterpret things as well: he's not autistic, he's just retarded; she's not bipolar, she's just crazy. 

Speaking personally I'm lucky; I'm classified as high functioning and unless I people about the fact that I'm autistic they generally won't notice. But getting to this point took me over a decade of trial and error. And I still have my own serious issues, I've just quarantined them mostly to my own personal life where they don't bother other people.

 

This mindset particularly saddens me because I love watching LTT and it's various other shows, y'all even have a great episode on the Xbox Adaptive Controller and how it's going great things for the physically impaired gaming community. But mental illnesses are no less real than physical ones, even if you don't see their effects. And just like you wouldn't go to someone with a food allergy and start talking about how you're in the same camp, Indian food will make your face red sometimes, you shouldn't go up to someone with a mental illness and comment how you're just like them, citing potentially severely water downed symptoms. If you want to claim you have a condition, first you should actually get diagnosed with said condition by a qualified professional. If you want to claim that my condition doesn't exist because everyone feels something kinda like one of the symptoms at one point or another: please, don't. Go volunteer with some low functioning people near you, or make friends with people who have been diagnosed and hear their stories. Some people really are different. 

 

I won't blame someone for their ignorance, we're all human. But once the ignorance has been highlighted I would be ecstatic if they could learn more about the things they talk about and help to share a more informed opinion if the topic comes up again.

 

Warm regards,

-Chris 

[DrMacintosh]

Having watched the whole thing, I though he handled the topic fine. And I’m pretty sure Linus made multiple comments about how everyone is on the autism spectrum. 

[_Rlocke]

If anything, highlighting that the spectrum has EVERYONE on it means that more people may feel better about talking about it.

[Autoferthesis]

That's exactly the problem though, Linus DID say that "as far as I'm concerned, who's not on [the spectrum]". And this is incredibly damaging to people who are on the spectrum. Because this leads to neurotypical people thinking that Autistic people are just like them, if maybe a little bit worse. This is NOT the case, people with mental illnesses are think and feel and are different than normal people. Saying that everyone's Autistic makes people think that people with autism don't need help, or resources, or accommodations, or empathy, because they're like me and I certainly don't need any of those things.

 

To sound like a pixar villain, saying everyone is Autistic is the same as saying that Autism doesn't exist. 

Autism exists, we're different than you, and some of us really struggle with basic functioning. The chance of some random person being autistic is very low, and our community has a real problem with normal people claiming to be Autistic, even when psychologists tell them otherwise. 

People with mental illnesses are different than you, even if they might not look like it on the surface.

[PlayStation 2]

5 minutes ago, Autoferthesis said:

That's exactly the problem though, Linus DID say that "as far as I'm concerned, who's not on [the spectrum]". And this is incredibly damaging to people who are on the spectrum. Because this leads to neurotypical people thinking that Autistic people are just like them, if maybe a little bit worse. This is NOT the case, people with mental illnesses are think and feel and are different than normal people. Saying that everyone's Autistic makes people think that people with autism don't need help, or resources, or accommodations, or empathy, because they're like me and I certainly don't need any of those things.

 

To sound like a pixar villain, saying everyone is Autistic is the same as saying that Autism doesn't exist. 

Autism exists, we're different than you, and some of us really struggle with basic functioning. The chance of some random person being autistic is very low, and our community has a real problem with normal people claiming to be Autistic, even when psychologists tell them otherwise. 

People with mental illnesses are different than you, even if they might not look like it on the surface.

It seems like you want to be known for having autism rather than figuring out ways to work with it.

I do feel that it does need to be made aware of, coming from someone who was put on the spectrum back in 2003. That being said, putting a large focus on being known for having autism becomes detrimental, like most other personality traits that shouldn't become your personality. Seems like forced segregation based on having autism or not, but maybe I'm taking that the wrong way.

[Squarq]

8 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

Having watched the whole thing, I though he handled the topic fine. And I’m pretty sure Linus made multiple comments about how everyone is on the autism spectrum. 

I think the whole point of this post was that it was incorrect for Linus to say that everyone is on the spectrum. The op explained how this was incorrect and similar to a self-diagnosis, a big issue with mental disorders.

 

8 hours ago, _Rlocke said:

If anything, highlighting that the spectrum has EVERYONE on it means that more people may feel better about talking about it.

Once again, the whole point of this post was the it is incorrect for Linus to say that everyone is on the spectrum. This is simply not true and could actually lead to many people misdiagnosing themselves or acting as though Autism is less debilitating than it actually is.

 

7 hours ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

It seems like you want to be known for having autism rather than figuring out ways to work with it.

I do feel that it does need to be made aware of, coming from someone who was put on the spectrum back in 2003. That being said, putting a large focus on being known for having autism becomes detrimental, like most other personality traits that shouldn't become your personality. Seems like forced segregation based on having autism or not, but maybe I'm taking that the wrong way.

I don't think the op is trying to get people to put Autism on a pedastal. He's just stating how Linus made an honest and careless mistake to say that everyone is on the Autism spectrum as this could lead others to see Autism as less debilitating that it actually is. Also, when I read this it felt like a very heartfelt post, and the fact that you're making the op sound like someone who's trying to show-off his disorder is completely uncalled for and unfair.

[PlayStation 2]

Just now, Squarq said:

I don't think the op is trying to get people to put Autism on a pedastal. He's just stating how Linus made an honest and careless mistake to say that everyone is on the Autism spectrum as this could lead others to see Autism as less debilitating that it actually is. Also, when I read this it felt like a very heartfelt post, and the fact that you're making the op sound like someone who's trying to show-off his disorder is completely uncalled for and unfair.

How else was I gonna respond feeling that OP was trying to make that fully known about him when it's not really relevant?

It's like prefacing an argument with "I'm gay, but" or "I'm a Republican, but". It's not relevant information at the end of the day. I know I'm guilty of it, I'm not even going to hide that, but that being said, I feel like the way it was mentioned put me off. Maybe I'm reading into it too much.

[Autoferthesis]

5 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

How else was I gonna respond feeling that OP was trying to make that fully known about him when it's not really relevant?

I think that's a fair point to say.

 

Personally I don't care if people know that I am/ label me as autistic. It doesn't change who I am. The reason I stated it is to hopefully convey some sense of minor authority on the subject. As I said a fair number of problems stem from people who aren't autistic or trained in diagnosis talking about autism. They get a lot of stuff wrong through ignorance. I think that me having autism is very relevant to a discussion on autism. 

 

Your other post says it "Seems like forced segregation based on having autism". That is my intent. People without autism or training in how to diagnose autism should not be trying to give advice on autism, it's trying to do statistics with a sample size of 0, you're going to get a lot of bad conclusions. People who don't know what they're talking about shouldn't be talking.
Step 1 of "figuring out ways to work with it" is getting awareness out there that the condition is real and the people affected go through different struggles than most people.

[Noctus]

8 hours ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Maybe I'm reading into it too much.

Far too much. That wasn't his point at all. He's just highlighting how he felt Linus mishandled the information he's presenting to his "millions" of viewers. The counter to your "im gay, but" comment would be "what gives you right to correct linus?".... "well i have Aspergers', im pretty informed on the subject".

[Mihle]

@LinusTech 

 

I bet tagging him probably doesn't make it more likely for him to read it, but why not.

 

OP. Good Words.

[moriel5]

As someone who has been diagnosed with Asperger's (albeit, it was extremely hard for the specialists to decide whether I have Asperger's, something else, or if I even have any syndrome at all), I agree that Linus had said it wrong, though I think that he had meant to to say Asperger's is not considered it's own syndrome, not that the Autistic spectrum as a whole is not considered a syndrome (I'll be glad if someone could correct me grammatically here, since I did not write this correctly, and I am not sure how to so correctly).

 

When I heard Linus talking about his thing with the dishes and cutlery, I certainly thought to myself, "that is so me".

 

By the way, I still haven't finished watching the clip, I just went to the forum immediately upon reaching this topic, looking for a thread on the video.

 

Which reminds me, reading about agriculture technology on Times for Kids in elementary school (part of my later childhood, before I was a teenager, was spent in the U.S.) was one of the things that started my obsession with technology, ultimately leading to computers (though I still am keen on tech that is not strictly computers).

 

By the way, and this is merely due to potential misunderstanding, now that I have seen a few more comments, I also don't care whether people know I have Asperger's or not. To me, it's the same as someone having black, brown, or blonde hair, except that this is something (in complete contradiction of some of the authorities on this subject) that I think can be naturally be changed if the person wishes to so (it won't be easy nor quick though).

Edited May 14, 2019 by moriel5
Clarification.

[TetraSky]

What did you expect from an unplanned talk, from an unplanned show? It's not like they come up with these topics themselves in advance. They, more often than not, have to think about what to say at that moment.

Yes, everyone is technically on the "spectrum", but no, it doesn't make it so that "neurotypical" people will suddenly think being autistic is the same as being like them. It's a SPECTRUM. It's literally in the name. It can be anything in between two extreme polar opposite. Just because someone is standing around the far end of the spectrum, doesn't mean everyone else is around the same place as well. Any neurotypical person that matter should be smart enough to realize that. (Not to mention anyone who thinks logically... like many autism people)

 

Linus came out as being somewhat autistic, you didn't like his somewhat misinformed interpretation of it and now you're complaining. This is quite literally the reason why nobody wants to talk about mental issues. Because regardless of where you stand on it, everyone flips their shit at you unless you have some kind of PHD in that subject... And even there you still get shit on.

[moriel5]

4 minutes ago, TetraSky said:

What did you expect from an unplanned talk, from an unplanned show? It's not like they come up with these topics themselves in advance. They, more often than not, have to think about what to say at that moment.

Yes, everyone is technically on the "spectrum", but no, it doesn't make it so that "neurotypical" people will suddenly think being autistic is the same as being like them. It's a SPECTRUM. It's literally in the name. It can be anything in between two extreme polar opposite. Just because someone is standing around the far end of the spectrum, doesn't mean everyone else is around the same place as well. Any neurotypical person that matter should be smart enough to realize that.

Linus came out as being somewhat autistic, you didn't like his somewhat misinformed interpretation of it and now you're complaining. This is quite literally the reason why nobody wants to talk about mental issues. Because regardless of where you stand on it, everyone flips their shit at you unless you have some kind of PHD in that subject... And even there you still get shit on.

You are correct. however most people are still unaware, that is the cause of all these misunderstandings.

[Video Beagle]

Thanks for posting @Autoferthesis...very informative!

[Autoferthesis]

4 hours ago, TetraSky said:

What did you expect from an unplanned talk, from an unplanned show? It's not like they come up with these topics themselves in advance. They, more often than not, have to think about what to say at that moment.

Yes, everyone is technically on the "spectrum", but no, it doesn't make it so that "neurotypical" people will suddenly think being autistic is the same as being like them. It's a SPECTRUM. It's literally in the name. It can be anything in between two extreme polar opposite. Just because someone is standing around the far end of the spectrum, doesn't mean everyone else is around the same place as well. Any neurotypical person that matter should be smart enough to realize that. (Not to mention anyone who thinks logically... like many autism people)

 

Linus came out as being somewhat autistic, you didn't like his somewhat misinformed interpretation of it and now you're complaining. This is quite literally the reason why nobody wants to talk about mental issues. Because regardless of where you stand on it, everyone flips their shit at you unless you have some kind of PHD in that subject... And even there you still get shit on.

I expect to hear whatever their conceptions are about whatever comes up. That's what happened. That's fine. 

I don't know what to tell you. I'm not mad at Linus, I'm not "flipping my shit". I don't have to be mad at someone I disagree with. I simply think that the views he expressed were inaccurate and misrepresent a group of people who I care about, and if people are willing to listen I hope to put a drop of my thoughts into their ocean of conscientiousness. I don't know everything, and I'm willing to be wrong. But on this I don't think I am. 

 

No: not everyone is on the spectrum. Just because you feel like you have aspects of Autism does not make you autistic. For an analogy: If you have a seat that does not mean you have a car. It might be a boat, or a stadium, or it might be just a chair. People go to many, many years of school and training to properly diagnose Autism and other illnesses, self diagnosis not the same as a diagnosis, even if there is a segment of people in the middle of the venn diagram between the two.

The human experience is so vast, and in many parts incomparable, that "anyone who thinks logically should think X" is often not true. There are plenty of smart, logical people who through personal experiences, learned knowledge, and taught beliefs have their own conclusions which are perfectly logical to them. Even with perfect logic if two arguments have different premises then they will logically come to different conclusions. And being wrong does not mean someone is dumb, being educated/smart is about learning, which involves being wrong a lot. Ignorance is not something to be hated, though also not something to glorify.

 

I'm not angry at anyone, Linus has read this post and that's all I could want.
I'm probably not going to change anyone's mind, but if I can show them some new scenery and engage in respectful discussion then I've had a good day.

[woowee]

The problem with all these concepts is that psychology has become rather unscientific.

 

Just an example from a past APA president before it became that way.  A concensus vote is all that matters now, what labels encompass or mean is purely down to fashion now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVdWLV3k6IE

[moriel5]

2 hours ago, woowee said:

The problem with all these concepts is that psychology has become rather unscientific.

 

Just an example from a past APA president before it became that way.  A concensus vote is all that matters now, what labels encompass or mean is purely down to fashion now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVdWLV3k6IE

While I do not 100% agree with you, unfortunately many things are now dictated by fashion, without any care for the truth.