Privacy search-engine company DuckDuckGo submits “The Do-Not-Track Act of 2019” to improve online privacy

[poochyena]

4 minutes ago, Curious Pineapple said:

And at that point it's too late

How is it too late? You can just leave.

5 minutes ago, Curious Pineapple said:

What you are effectively saying is by wanting to use the Internet you should just agree to give whatever information is available about yourself to anyone who wants it.

well yea, thats the free market. If you don't like it, use a different service.

[Curious Pineapple]

3 minutes ago, poochyena said:

How is it too late? You can just leave.

well yea, thats the free market. If you don't like it, use a different service.

Leaving a webpage because I see "ads by Google" won't suddenly change the fact that they know I looked on a forum for "how to repair a cracked monitor". If it were ads on that site for what I am actively doing then fine, but it's not. It's a barrage of adverts all over the web for monitors for days. I was looking for ATX extension cables a few weeks back, not a search but visiting a suppliers website. The next week or so was adverts for the exact product I was looking at from the same supplier.

 

You are in a small minoprity if you have no problem with that kind of data sharing, even from websites that don't have adverts on them.

[ARikozuM]

17 minutes ago, poochyena said:

How is it too late? You can just leave.

Cookies are persistent. Your IP address is logged and used to tie the cookies together. You have not consented to global Google Ads just by visiting a website that uses Google Ads. 

17 minutes ago, poochyena said:

well yea, thats the free market. If you don't like it, use a different service.

Google and Amazon have oligopolies in place to prevent anyone from skirting around them. This is not competition, but placing a barrier to the free market. 

[poochyena]

11 minutes ago, Curious Pineapple said:

Leaving a webpage because I see "ads by Google" won't suddenly change the fact that they know I looked on a forum for "how to repair a cracked monitor".

Right, and if you don't like that, you can leave that website and never go back.

11 minutes ago, Curious Pineapple said:

You are in a small minoprity if you have no problem with that kind of data sharing

I've never seen someone complain about tracking cookies outside of niche tech forums.

6 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

Google and Amazon have oligopolies

False.

[ARikozuM]

6 minutes ago, poochyena said:

False.

How so? How many ad services are there that do not use Google or Amazon as their backbones?

[Curious Pineapple]

1 minute ago, poochyena said:

Right, and if you don't like that, you can leave that website and never go back.

There's more than one website with ads on it you know

 

1 minute ago, poochyena said:

I've never seen someone complain about tracking cookies outside of niche tech forums.

I have, this rather unusual place called the real world. People don't like being followed, the EU made it compulsary for all websites to disclose what cookies they store, what they are used for, and to allow people to choose not to accept them. One of the few good things they have done with regards to tech recently.

 

The issue here really is explicity saying I do not want to be followed, and being ignored and tracked anyway. You wouldn't accept it in every day life, so why should it be acceptable online?

[poochyena]

11 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

How many ad services are there that do not use Google or Amazon as their backbones?

idk? Any website can host their own ad service.

11 minutes ago, Curious Pineapple said:

There's more than one website with ads on it you know

I know

11 minutes ago, Curious Pineapple said:

this rather unusual place called the real world.

In a niche tech community i'm sure. Or possibly a conspiracy theorist community. Normal/average people don't care because there is no reason to care.

11 minutes ago, Curious Pineapple said:

You wouldn't accept it in every day life

I do. I have cameras on my property that track what anyone who enters my property does. I have a camera in my car too. Literally every business has dozens of cameras watching all their customers and employees.

[Curious Pineapple]

1 minute ago, poochyena said:

I do. I have cameras on my property that track what anyone who enters my property does. I have a camera in my car too. Literally every business has dozens of cameras watching all their customers and employees.

Do you also watch them when they go home? Record what they purchase? Take notes on who they spend time with? Make a spreadsheet on what time they go to work? Do you then share that data with others? Maybe sell it on to others? Start gathering data on anyone they know? Sell that data on?

[poochyena]

Just now, Curious Pineapple said:

Do you also watch them when they go home? Record what they purchase? Take notes on who they spend time with? Make a spreadsheet on what time they go to work? Do you then share that data with others? Maybe sell it on to others? Start gathering data on anyone they know? Sell that data on?

yes, actually. Its actually kinda concerning that you aren't aware of cameras being everywhere in public places.

[Curious Pineapple]

4 minutes ago, poochyena said:

yes, actually. Its actually kinda concerning that you aren't aware of cameras being everywhere in public places.

I know how many cameras are in public, I asked if YOU do them things. It's like dealing with an anti-vaxxer

[poochyena]

1 minute ago, Curious Pineapple said:

I know how many cameras are in public, I asked if YOU do them things. It's like dealing with an anti-vaxxer

and I said yes. I watch people go home because I record video from my car. I don't record what people purchase through a camera (since I don't have a store front, only sell at events), but through business records. I take notes on various details of my customers. I share the data will other people in the business. Not sold any yet.

[Curious Pineapple]

1 minute ago, poochyena said:

and I said yes. I watch people go home because I record video from my car. I don't record what people purchase through a camera (since I don't have a store front, only sell at events), but through business records. I take notes on various details of my customers. I share the data will other people in the business. Not sold any yet.

Nice try at twisting what I asked, I think I'll just put this in with the flat earth pile of posts to keep away from.

[poochyena]

6 minutes ago, Curious Pineapple said:

Nice try at twisting what I asked

I didn't. You asked if I record people and I do.

[dalekphalm]

4 hours ago, poochyena said:

yes, actually. Its actually kinda concerning that you aren't aware of cameras being everywhere in public places.

Now imagine if, when you were recorded by the Best Buy CCTV system, Best Buy then went through that footage, took notes about what products you browsed, snooped on your phone usage when you pulled out your phone to read a text message, and tracked the license plate as your car left the parking lot.

 

Now imagine that after all of that, Best  Buy sold that footage to Walmart, who did the same thing and combined their footage with Best Buy's.

 

Yes there are CCTV cameras in public. But they aren't shared between different companies. There are actually pretty strict privacy laws in how CCTV footage can be used (Well, at least in some countries).

[poochyena]

7 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Now imagine if, when you were recorded by the Best Buy CCTV system, Best Buy then went through that footage, took notes about what products you browsed, snooped on your phone usage when you pulled out your phone to read a text message, and tracked the license plate as your car left the parking lot.

 

Now imagine that after all of that, Best  Buy sold that footage to Walmart, who did the same thing and combined their footage with Best Buy's.

Do you genuinely believe they don't already do that? wow

8 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

But they aren't shared between different companies.

omg you are actually serious

[dalekphalm]

1 minute ago, poochyena said:

Do you genuinely believe they don't already do that? wow

If they do, they are violating law. If that's the case, they need to be outed and punished.

1 minute ago, poochyena said:

omg you are actually serious

Do you have any sources for these claims, or is this just conspiracy territory?

 

And if you think it's okay if they do do these things... that's frightening. And if you fail to see how companies doing similar things with digital tracking is bad? I'm not sure we can continue the discussion beyond this.

[poochyena]

1 minute ago, dalekphalm said:

If they do, they are violating law.

What law?

[ARikozuM]

5 minutes ago, poochyena said:

Do you genuinely believe they don't already do that? wow

We're trying to prevent that from being possible. We don't need our privacy invaded past the moments we're searching the web.

 

CCTV footage cannot be shared with other companies according to my provider ADT, unless for law enforcement.

[poochyena]

Just now, ARikozuM said:

We don't need our privacy invaded past the moments we're searching the web.

Its not. The public web is not a private place.

 

1 minute ago, ARikozuM said:

CCTV footage cannot be shared with other companies according to my provider

Then how do you explain the countless store robbery videos on youtube?

[dalekphalm]

8 minutes ago, poochyena said:

What law?

Canadian Constitution Act, 1982. Heading: "Legal Rights"; Subsection 8:

Quote

Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search and seizure.

Emphasis mine. CCTV's can be used to search my expectation of privacy - which, for example, tracking my license plate without merit or need, or spying on my cellphone screen through a camera, etc.

 

There are no doubt other - more specific - laws that would outlaw that via specific privacy legislation, but I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not going to do a deep dive into the Canadian Criminal Code.

 

Suffice to say, there's a similar provision in the US Constitution as well.

[dalekphalm]

9 minutes ago, poochyena said:

Then how do you explain the countless store robbery videos on youtube?

Typically any identifying or private information would be blocked from view - or they have consent of the parties involved.

 

For example: If the CCTV footage showed someone typing in their bank password into their phone - that would be a privacy violation.

 

But, YouTube most likely simply doesn't enforce the law on these matters, because people aren't trying to stop them.

[poochyena]

5 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

my expectation of privacy

There is no expectation of privacy in public.

 

4 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

For example: If the CCTV footage showed someone typing in their bank password into their phone - that would be a privacy violation.

Right, and thats information that isn't being shared with anyone. What does this line have anything to do with previous comments?

 

[ARikozuM]

13 minutes ago, poochyena said:

Its not. The public web is not a private place.

It should be. We deserve to have the internet that we paid for at our privacy. CCTV is for security. CCTV is not allowed in bathrooms due to privacy needing protections. 

13 minutes ago, poochyena said:

Then how do you explain the countless store robbery videos on youtube?

I can share the footage. ADT needs my authorization before giving the footage to anyone, even to law enforcement. 

[dalekphalm]

Just now, poochyena said:

There is no expectation of privacy in public.

Maybe not in North Korea. But there is 100% an expectation of privacy on things I don't intentionally and obviously share to others.

 

Such as my phone screen. If I turn the screen to you and let you look? I'm voluntarily giving up my privacy expectations. If you sneak a peek onto my screen from a CCTV camera (double points if the cameras aren't explicitly disclosed or are obviously hidden) and record the information you discover? Worse - if you share that information with others without my consent? You bet that'd be highly illegal in Canada.

Just now, poochyena said:

Right, and thats information that isn't being shared with anyone. What does this line have anything to do with previous comments?

You're the one who said companies were already doing these things. Remember?

 

The point is that this type of thing is happening in the digital world.

[poochyena]

2 hours ago, ARikozuM said:

It should be.

What does that even mean. Its a public space. If you don't want to be in the public web, then go to the hidden web, somewhere the public can't go.
Imagine going to a public park and demanding no one look at you or what you are doing since you want privacy in public.

 

2 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

there is 100% an expectation of privacy on things I don't intentionally and obviously share to others.

yea, and those things are private, not public.

 

2 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

If you sneak a peek onto my screen from a CCTV camera (double points if the cameras aren't explicitly disclosed or are obviously hidden) and record the information you discover? Worse - if you share that information with others without my consent? You bet that'd be highly illegal in Canada.

right, because that is private information

2 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

You're the one who said companies were already doing these things. Remember?

I never said companies are sharing private data, I said they were sharing public data.