High Open Loop Liquid Temp

[mrsnowmobiling]

Hi all,

 

I've been investigating an issue with my open loop and would appreciate some advice.

 

I have a Vega 56 pulling about 250-265W and an i7 5820k pulling about 80W in the Witcher 3 and my liquid temps seem really high personally.

 

Config:

EK SE360 on the top as exhaust

EK PE240 on the front as intake

EK SPC-60PWM pump

EK Vardar F3/F4 for all the rads

 

Fans 60-70% and case closed: 47C

Fan speed 100%: 45.5C

Opening side panel and taking top of case off: 39.6C

 

Would my temps decrease quite a bit by upgrading the PE240 rad for a PE360 in the front and updating to a D5 pump?

 

This info is telling me I'm more bottlenecked in airflow, rad size compared to my flow.

 

Loop order:

Pump > GPU > 360 > CPU > 240 > RES

[Mick Naughty]

Another reason you don’t have a rad on the intake. You lack fresh air. Even more so using the thing ek rads. 

[mrsnowmobiling]

2 minutes ago, Mick Naughty said:

Another reason you don’t have a rad on the intake. You lack fresh air. Even more so using the thing ek rads. 

The 240 rad is the main intake for the case. Do you think adding that extra 120mm of rad space + the extra fan would solve that fresh air problem? I'm just curious if it would drop my liquid temps down to say 42C with the side and top on. My ideal liquid goal would be 40C but I don't know if that's achievable in the Evolv X

[Shimejii]

You have PLENTY of cooling in there, its just the fans. I prefer having Front and top intakes, and having the back fan as exhaust. Never had an issue.

[Mick Naughty]

1 minute ago, mrsnowmobiling said:

The 240 rad is the main intake for the case. Do you think adding that extra 120mm of rad space + the extra fan would solve that fresh air problem? I'm just curious if it would drop my liquid temps down to say 42C with the side and top on. My ideal liquid goal would be 40C but I don't know if that's achievable in the Evolv X

No idea. The 360 can’t do as much as it should with limited flow and heated air. Which is the problem. Adding a rad in the back would result in the same thing but could help slow it down. 

[ch3w2oy]

I've only been gaming an hour at a time with my new loop and I have 2x360 rads. One's an EK PE 360 and ones a XSPC Crossflow 360.. My temps get up to 37C playing CSGO and BF5. My ambient temps are 21C in the room. I'm sure if I gamed for HOURS on end that it would go higher, not by much though.. I also have everything extremely overclocked..

 

It sounds like you need better airflow because like you said once you take the side panel off, the temps go down.. If that case is the Entho Evolv I'm sure that's why.. Bigger rad might help as it'll add another fan to it..

[RobFRaschke]

I can see two potential issues, you're not getting enough air, almost certainly. I would actually probably flip that rear fan around to throw some fresh cool air at the 360, that would also change from a likely very negatively pressured case, to a mildly positively pressurized case.

 

Secondly, that DDC might be struggling to push water through that large of a system. What is the pump speed, and does changing it effect temperatures significantly?

[mrsnowmobiling]

2 minutes ago, ch3w2oy said:

I've only been gaming an hour at a time with my new loop and I have 2x360 rads. One's an EK PE 360 and ones a XSPC Crossflow 360.. My temps get up to 37C playing CSGO and BF5. My ambient temps are 21C in the room. I'm sure if I gamed for HOURS on end that it would go higher, not by much though.. I also have everything extremely overclocked..

 

It sounds like you need better airflow because like you said once you take the side panel off, the temps go down.. If that case is the Entho Evolv I'm sure that's why.. Bigger rad might help as it'll add another fan to it..

Yeah it's the Evolv X. Sounds like 40C is about the best that I can hope for. My case is about 6FT off the ground so ambient is like 28.5. Would you recommend I still upgrade my pump or is it really necessary? Thanks for the comment!

[Enderman]

The liquid temp seems fine...

If it was low then there wouldn't be much heat transfer between the radiators and the air.

[ch3w2oy]

15 minutes ago, mrsnowmobiling said:

Yeah it's the Evolv X. Sounds like 40C is about the best that I can hope for. My case is about 6FT off the ground so ambient is like 28.5. Would you recommend I still upgrade my pump or is it really necessary? Thanks for the comment!

Only if you're having noise/performance issues.. Since you can get the temps down with better airflow I don't think it would be worth it.. Drill some holes in the front panel or if you're good enough, cut the sides of the front panel to increase airflow.. Or add brackets/washers to the front that push the panel outt.. Kind of like what this guy did..

 

 

[Skiiwee29]

5 minutes ago, ch3w2oy said:

Only if you're having noise/performance issues.. Since you can get the temps down with better airflow I don't think it would be worth it.. Drill some holes in the front panel or if you're good enough, cut the sides of the front panel to increase airflow.. Or add brackets/washers to the front that push the panel outt.. Kind of like what this guy did..

 

 

This is for the Evolv X, not the Evolv ATX. Evolv X fixed some of the air flow issues with the original case. WHile not perfect, it is much better. 

[mrsnowmobiling]

30 minutes ago, RobFRaschke said:

I can see two potential issues, you're not getting enough air, almost certainly. I would actually probably flip that rear fan around to throw some fresh cool air at the 360, that would also change from a likely very negatively pressured case, to a mildly positively pressurized case.

 

Secondly, that DDC might be struggling to push water through that large of a system. What is the pump speed, and does changing it effect temperatures significantly?

I just flipped the back fan around to test it really quick and liquid temps are unchanged. Full RRM. You'd think with that Vardar forcing all that air into the case, temps would drop maybe 1C...

 

The pump isn't even a DDC, it's the entry pump from EK. It's basically this: https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-xres-100-spc-60-pwm-classic-incl-pump

[ch3w2oy]

4 minutes ago, mrsnowmobiling said:

I just flipped the back fan around to test it really quick and liquid temps are unchanged. Full RRM. You'd think with that Vardar forcing all that air into the case, temps would drop maybe 1C...

 

The pump isn't even a DDC, it's the entry pump from EK. It's basically this: https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-xres-100-spc-60-pwm-classic-incl-pump

The air needs somewhere to go.. If there air can't escape fast enough then it doesn't matter how much air you pump into it.. Try making the back and top both intake and front exhaust..

[ch3w2oy]

14 minutes ago, Skiiwee29 said:

This is for the Evolv X, not the Evolv ATX. Evolv X fixed some of the air flow issues with the original case. WHile not perfect, it is much better. 

True, but maybe the other can be done the same way, no? I'm not too familiar with the case..

[mrsnowmobiling]

3 minutes ago, ch3w2oy said:

True, but maybe the other can be done the same way, no? I'm not too familiar with the case..

Theres like 35mm of space for the air to get around the front panel. There was a dust filter there too but I just took that off. I did a quick test on "subjective" airflow with a 140mm at full speed and surprised the amount of airflow that air filter was stopping. Might help out 1-2C with it gone.

 

This is the gap looking from the side

[ch3w2oy]

16 minutes ago, mrsnowmobiling said:

Theres like 35mm of space for the air to get around the front panel. There was a dust filter there too but I just took that off. I did a quick test on "subjective" airflow with a 140mm at full speed and surprised the amount of airflow that air filter was stopping. Might help out 1-2C with it gone.

 

This is the gap looking from the side

 

That looks like it should be enough no? Maybe it's the top panel since that's when you got the greatest drop in temps.. You have that rad as exhaust so it's probably not pushing enough air through it.. If you have enough airflow in the front I bet if you changed the two rads, the bigger one in the front, you would see a slight decline in temps as well.. I would always try to use the bigger rad where the best airflow takes place.. The top may not help you at all in that case, maybe drill some holes in that? Or switch to the PC-O11 Dynamic like I did and never worry about temps again haha. 

 

I have a d5 pump and it's running full speed and I just played Apex for less than an hour and my liquid temp went from 24C to to 35.1C.. So I really don't think it's the pump..

[RobFRaschke]

36 minutes ago, ch3w2oy said:

That looks like it should be enough no? Maybe it's the top panel since that's when you got the greatest drop in temps.. You have that rad as exhaust so it's probably not pushing enough air through it.. If you have enough airflow in the front I bet if you changed the two rads, the bigger one in the front, you would see a slight decline in temps as well.. I would always try to use the bigger rad where the best airflow takes place.. The top may not help you at all in that case, maybe drill some holes in that? Or switch to the PC-O11 Dynamic like I did and never worry about temps again haha. 

 

I have a d5 pump and it's running full speed and I just played Apex for less than an hour and my liquid temp went from 24C to to 35.1C.. So I really don't think it's the pump..

Depending on your loop, you could actually see better temperatures with that speed turned down. The pump itself does add heat to the loop, and the water has to have enough time to absorb heat from the block(s) and dump that heat out into the air from the radiators. I have an old(er) D5 Vario at it worked best on setting 3/5 in my old loop, with 4/5 being almost identical load temps but slightly higher idle temps(the pump itself adding more heat).

 

I also agree, if it's easy enough to do, I would put the 360 in the front and the 240 on top. That'll give the coolest air to the biggest radiator, and open up some space up top for air to passively exhaust. The rear fan could then still be used as an intake to cool the VRMs if there is enough open space up top for all the air to escape.

[ch3w2oy]

1 minute ago, RobFRaschke said:

Depending on your loop, you could actually see better temperatures with that speed turned down. The pump itself does add heat to the loop, and the water has to have enough time to absorb heat from the block(s) and dump that heat out into the air from the radiators. I have an old(er) D5 Vario at it worked best on setting 3/5 in my old loop, with 4/5 being almost identical load temps but slightly higher idle temps(the pump itself adding more heat).

 

I also agree, if it's easy enough to do, I would put the 360 in the front and the 240 on top. That'll give the coolest air to the biggest radiator, and open up some space up top for air to passively exhaust. The rear fan could then still be used as an intake to cool the VRMs if there is enough open space up top for all the air to escape.

I'm glad you mention that about the pump. This is my first loop and I naturally thought the faster the water moved the longer it takes to heat up lol.. Totally makes sense now that you say it like that.. I don't want it running at max anyway as I want my system silent but I'm still in testing/benching phase of my build so I left it on high.. I'll be sure to test it at lower RPMs.. Thanks a lot! 

[mrsnowmobiling]

1 hour ago, ch3w2oy said:

That looks like it should be enough no? Maybe it's the top panel since that's when you got the greatest drop in temps.. You have that rad as exhaust so it's probably not pushing enough air through it.. If you have enough airflow in the front I bet if you changed the two rads, the bigger one in the front, you would see a slight decline in temps as well.. I would always try to use the bigger rad where the best airflow takes place.. The top may not help you at all in that case, maybe drill some holes in that? Or switch to the PC-O11 Dynamic like I did and never worry about temps again haha. 

 

I have a d5 pump and it's running full speed and I just played Apex for less than an hour and my liquid temp went from 24C to to 35.1C.. So I really don't think it's the pump..

I just noticed your signature and our setups are probably similar for power draw.

 

Your loop from 24C to 35C is 11C delta. Mine from 31C idle to 46C is 15C which I guess isn't awful. My ambient today was 6C-7C hotter than yours. Accounting for that drop, my liquid temp would be 39-40C. 

 

I've ran the setup like this since late last year and ever since I got that temp probe for the loop, it's bugged me ever since. I'm collecting parts for my upcoming Zen 2 build and throwing a new rad and pump into the mix isn't a big deal. I think adding that PE360 to the front will drop temps 2.5-3C; potentially more due to the added airflow entering the case. I should pretty close to that 40C target of mine at that point.

[mrsnowmobiling]

1 hour ago, ch3w2oy said:

I'm glad you mention that about the pump. This is my first loop and I naturally thought the faster the water moved the longer it takes to heat up lol.. Totally makes sense now that you say it like that.. I don't want it running at max anyway as I want my system silent but I'm still in testing/benching phase of my build so I left it on high.. I'll be sure to test it at lower RPMs.. Thanks a lot! 

My temps don't seem to change all that much with the pump, maybe a little lower with lower speeds but my pump max is ~250L/h. At max speed, I'm running equivalent flow of you guys running your pumps at like 20% PWM lol. I'll probably just get a new pump anyways. This one has a gheto repair because it started leaking (I tightened a fitting too much and cracked the acetyl) and I fixed it with some RTV silicone. Hasn't leaked for about a year but still, probably just wise to splurge for a new one

[ch3w2oy]

38 minutes ago, mrsnowmobiling said:

I just noticed your signature and our setups are probably similar for power draw.

 

Your loop from 24C to 35C is 11C delta. Mine from 31C idle to 46C is 15C which I guess isn't awful. My ambient today was 6C-7C hotter than yours. Accounting for that drop, my liquid temp would be 39-40C. 

 

I've ran the setup like this since late last year and ever since I got that temp probe for the loop, it's bugged me ever since. I'm collecting parts for my upcoming Zen 2 build and throwing a new rad and pump into the mix isn't a big deal. I think adding that PE360 to the front will drop temps 2.5-3C; potentially more due to the added airflow entering the case. I should pretty close to that 40C target of mine at that point.

I think 40C is a good target.. I'm going to try slowing my pump speed as well because what was mentioned above definitely makes sense.

 

And yea, I'm sure if my ambient temp was higher my liquid temp would rise much quicker.. So I really don't think your doing to bad.. Definitely put the bigger rad on the front, or buy the PE 360, as that'll help!

 

I'm gonna try gaming for a few hours, or maybe run a stress test to see what a actually happens in the next day or 2.. I think I can get to 40C with just gaming, I just haven't gamed long enough yet.. Stress test will easily get me there but that doesn't really tell us anything.. 

 

21 minutes ago, mrsnowmobiling said:

My temps don't seem to change all that much with the pump, maybe a little lower with lower speeds but my pump max is ~250L/h. At max speed, I'm running equivalent flow of you guys running your pumps at like 20% PWM lol. I'll probably just get a new pump anyways. This one has a gheto repair because it started leaking (I tightened a fitting too much and cracked the acetyl) and I fixed it with some RTV silicone. Hasn't leaked for about a year but still, probably just wise to splurge for a new one

 

That's pretty low for a pump.. I think the EK D5 I have is around ~1,500L/h.. In that case I would upgrade if possible.. I think you need a good combination of radiator area and flow rate to get rid of the heat most effectively.. If the flow is too weak it probably makes and keeps the water too hot, especially inside a case with poor airflow.. I can probably bring my temp down by slowing the flow rate so the heat has more time to escape through the radiators.. I think in your case, the heat has no where to go at the top.. At least not quick enough.. 

[LmnSour]

13 hours ago, ch3w2oy said:

I'm glad you mention that about the pump. This is my first loop and I naturally thought the faster the water moved the longer it takes to heat up lol.. Totally makes sense now that you say it like that.. I don't want it running at max anyway as I want my system silent but I'm still in testing/benching phase of my build so I left it on high.. I'll be sure to test it at lower RPMs.. Thanks a lot! 

This is incorrect. Martin showed in his research higher flow rates are better with diminishing returns somewhere around 1 to 1.5 gpm.

 

The heat dissipated by the 240mm is then passed along the 360 which is reducing your cooling capacity. That and possibly you flow rate might be the issue.

[mrsnowmobiling]

12 hours ago, ch3w2oy said:

I think 40C is a good target.. I'm going to try slowing my pump speed as well because what was mentioned above definitely makes sense.

 

And yea, I'm sure if my ambient temp was higher my liquid temp would rise much quicker.. So I really don't think your doing to bad.. Definitely put the bigger rad on the front, or buy the PE 360, as that'll help!

 

I'm gonna try gaming for a few hours, or maybe run a stress test to see what a actually happens in the next day or 2.. I think I can get to 40C with just gaming, I just haven't gamed long enough yet.. Stress test will easily get me there but that doesn't really tell us anything.. 

 

 

That's pretty low for a pump.. I think the EK D5 I have is around ~1,500L/h.. In that case I would upgrade if possible.. I think you need a good combination of radiator area and flow rate to get rid of the heat most effectively.. If the flow is too weak it probably makes and keeps the water too hot, especially inside a case with poor airflow.. I can probably bring my temp down by slowing the flow rate so the heat has more time to escape through the radiators.. I think in your case, the heat has no where to go at the top.. At least not quick enough.. 

Which RAD would you go for? My target fan rpm is about 1200-1300 in games.

 

The new classic PE at 45mm thick FPI of 13 https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-coolstream-classic-pe-360

or

PE360 38mm thick FPI 19 https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-coolstream-pe-360-triple

 

Did lots of measuring and both would fit. 

[ch3w2oy]

8 minutes ago, mrsnowmobiling said:

Which RAD would you go for? My target fan rpm is about 1200-1300 in games.

 

The new classic PE at 45mm thick FPI of 13 https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-coolstream-classic-pe-360

or

PE360 38mm thick FPI 19 https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-coolstream-pe-360-triple

 

Did lots of measuring and both would fit. 

I would fit the thickest one I could.. But look at some reviews because different ones dissipate heat better than others at different fan RPMs.. 

 

I would prefer a hardware labs black ice radiator over an EK one.. I only got the PE because it's what Micro Center had.. The hardware labs ones perform better at lower RPMs too.. If you can fit 55mm then look at the GTR 360. Great RAD. I don't know their naming but they should have similar sizing, just look at their website.. I see them recommended more than EK through the enthusiast communities I frequent.. 

[Benjeh]

21 hours ago, mrsnowmobiling said:

Hi all,

 

I've been investigating an issue with my open loop and would appreciate some advice.

 

I have a Vega 56 pulling about 250-265W and an i7 5820k pulling about 80W in the Witcher 3 and my liquid temps seem really high personally.

 

Config:

EK SE360 on the top as exhaust

EK PE240 on the front as intake

EK SPC-60PWM pump

EK Vardar F3/F4 for all the rads

 

Fans 60-70% and case closed: 47C

Fan speed 100%: 45.5C

Opening side panel and taking top of case off: 39.6C

 

Would my temps decrease quite a bit by upgrading the PE240 rad for a PE360 in the front and updating to a D5 pump?

 

This info is telling me I'm more bottlenecked in airflow, rad size compared to my flow.

 

Loop order:

Pump > GPU > 360 > CPU > 240 > RES

 

Loop order doesn't matter. It's not an open loop, you close the lid on your res the loop is now sealed, its a custom loop. Your case will restrict some heat output, this is normal. D5 and bigger rads will lower temps up to a certain point, rads lose their effectiveness the cooler they are, if you want your coolant to be almost the same as ambient then buy some bulkhead fittings and plumb one of these into the loop.