Warning about using Liquid metal from Thermal Grizzly

[HristoBB]

Hey guys i want to show u something that i found and have proof on it that using liquid metal is actually pretty dangerous and not just for the conductivity,but because it dries up overtime. 
I have an Asus Pro gaming aura 970 motherboard paired with FX 8350 which i have overclocked to 4.5Ghz at 1.3250V stable. Also i had a GTX 780 which died from the liquid metal being absorbed from the copper heatsink over time and it overheated and died. 
Today i have a R9 280x which i also tried with liquid metal with no luck and no temperature decrease at all over the previous MX-4 . 
The thing is they told u that the Liquid metal is not safe to use on Aluminum but it's actually more than that.U shouldn't use it on bare copper too because it makes a reaction with the cooper and the copper absorbs it.. When the gallium contacts pure copper, the metals irreversibly alloy.This reaction proceeds until there is no more copper or all the gallium is consumed..
The reaction is: Ga + Cu → CuGa2 [67%] + Cu3Ga [11%]. ( + Ga2O3 [12%])
That means liquid metal will literally eat into the copper until the gallium is gone, and the resulting copper-gallium alloy is a silver-ish color. Yes, - in case you are wondering - the gallium in liquid metal reacts this way despite the fact that there are other metal stabilizers present in Liquid Metal. 

I had liquid metal installed on my FX 8350 for like 6 months now and i started seeing the temps going way too high where they've never been before even with a conventional thermal paste.So before the metal drying out completely on me and causing anymore damage i quickly disassembled my rig only to find out that the CPU and my Be Quiet Pure Rock 120 cooler has been fused together.. 
I tried somehow to pull the lever on the motherboard socket so i can remove the cooler with the CPU attached to it without causing damage and using a fine knife i succeeded in separating the CPU form the cooler. 
As i thought the Liquid metal has dried up but not only that.. It left a nasty rock solid residue on both the cooler and the CPU which i then needed to sand down then Lap both surfaces and polish them to get rid of the liquid metal.
All that costed me like 2 to 3 hours to make it properly and without damaging my gear.
After applying the Mx-4 everything was working fine like it should.. 
Unfortunately i have no pics from installing the liquid metal for the 1st time so i can show u that it is properly installed and this is not my mistake.But i've been working on computers for more than 5 years now and i'm somewhat skilled so i guess you guys can trust me on this. 
I literally spend like whole day in research for the Liquid metal datasheets for the ingredients and how they work/react etc. 
It is definitely not something i would recommend putting inside a PC build and definitely you should avoid even tho it provides better thermal conductivity over conventional paste. It is only for a short period of time depending on what surface you are installing it.
I think there would be no problem if the pure/bare copper is nickel plated or at least that will slow the process  

[Ilumic]

They do recommend you use it with a nickle plated heat sink on there website 

[HristoBB]

1 minute ago, Lewiscool45 said:

They do recommend you use it with a nickle plated heat sink on there website 

BeQuiet Pure rock is Nickel Plated but they recommend to be nickel plated for best long term performance results.It is not required .

[Ilumic]

Just now, HristoBB said:

BeQuiet Pure rock is Nickel Plated but they recommend to be nickel plated for best long term performance results.It is not required .

its just one line of there products they recommend this for all the rest are rated for use with any metal 

[HristoBB]

2 minutes ago, Ilumic said:

its just one line of there products they recommend this for all the rest are rated for use with any metal 

Well this product unfortunately costed me a gtx 780 with perfect overcloable chip. Because it dried up and overheated.
And probably my cpu would've died too if i didn't noticed the temps going way too high .
And that drying happened for like 4-5 months. Cpu survived only because it's not generating so much heat and the process is slower. 

[Ilumic]

Just now, HristoBB said:

Well this product unfortunately costed me a gtx 780 with perfect overcloable chip. Because it dried up and overheated.
And probably my cpu would've died too if i didn't noticed the temps going way too high .

how long did you have the paste on your gpu for?

 

[HristoBB]

Just now, Ilumic said:

how long did you have the paste on your gpu for?

 

For like 4 months and that's playing mostly light games like league.. and then out of the sudden when i tried playing Rise of the Tomb Raider the card overheated and died.
And it was actually still pretty hot to the touch 2-3 minutes after the pc went off .. 

[Ilumic]

Just now, HristoBB said:

For like 4 months and that's playing mostly light games like league.. and then out of the sudden when i tried playing Rise of the Tomb Raider the card overheated and died.
And it was actually still pretty hot to the touch 2-3 minutes after the pc went off .. 

have you tried contacting support on thermal grizzlys site, seems like this shouldn't have happened 

[HristoBB]

Just now, Ilumic said:

have you tried contacting support on thermal grizzlys site, seems like this shouldn't have happened 

No point contacting them after the damage has been done.All i want is to just warn the people who are using this to pay more attention to their temperatures because this is not panacea for high temps . 

[_Hustler_One_]

You applied the LM between cooler and IHS?

Shouldn't it applied between the CPU die and IHS where it needs a deliding process? Not between IHS and cooler?

[HristoBB]

26 minutes ago, _Hustler_One_ said:

You applied the LM between cooler and IHS?

Shouldn't it applied between the CPU die and IHS where it needs a deliding process? Not between IHS and cooler?

AMD CPU's are soldered and cannot be delided or atleast not safely. Basically u have to heat them to around 200 degrees then remove the IHS and the remaining solder but there is no point in doing that because the solder does the job better than the Liquid metal. 
So i installed it between the cooler and the Cpu IHS which is still a popular method and pretty effective in case like mine where the cpu ihs i soldered. Too bad that the liquid metal didn't stand up for long

And also the Gpu doesn't have IHS so it's basically installing the LM directly onto the GPU die but still it died cause of the reasons i already discussed in the post. 

 

[Mick Naughty]

This is alread well known. Even more so for improper use. 

[PhuCCo]

This product isn't intended to be used on top of the IHS..

[HristoBB]

23 hours ago, PhuCCo said:

This product isn't intended to be used on top of the IHS..

How about on video card die ?

 

[BuckGup]

6 minutes ago, HristoBB said:

How about on video card die ?

 

Nope the GPU doesn't have an IHS so using decent paste already is enough.

[bowrilla]

On 2/4/2019 at 2:30 PM, PhuCCo said:

This product isn't intended to be used on top of the IHS..

You can use it where evere you want, even between the IHS and a cooler will give you slightly better performance but you just need to understand the chemical limitations - just don't use it with copper or aluminium. 

 

Is it worth the hassle? Not really, Kryonaut will perform about 1-2°K worse under load. So it's basically irrelevant. 

[PhuCCo]

On 2/5/2019 at 9:46 AM, bowrilla said:

You can use it where evere you want, even between the IHS and a cooler will give you slightly better performance but you just need to understand the chemical limitations - just don't use it with copper or aluminium. 

 

Is it worth the hassle? Not really, Kryonaut will perform about 1-2°K worse under load. So it's basically irrelevant. 

Which is precisely why it isn't intended to be used on top of an IHS as the majority of cooler bases are not plated.

[Amaranth]

On 2/1/2019 at 6:29 PM, HristoBB said:

Hey guys i want to show u something that i found and have proof on it that using liquid metal is actually pretty dangerous and not just for the conductivity,but because it dries up overtime. 

Only if you don't apply it correctly.

I've got multiple systems that have been using the same application of Conductonaut for years on end and they haven't lost a degree.

[AngryBeaver]

On 2/1/2019 at 5:29 PM, HristoBB said:

Hey guys i want to show u something that i found and have proof on it that using liquid metal is actually pretty dangerous and not just for the conductivity,but because it dries up overtime. 
I have an Asus Pro gaming aura 970 motherboard paired with FX 8350 which i have overclocked to 4.5Ghz at 1.3250V stable. Also i had a GTX 780 which died from the liquid metal being absorbed from the copper heatsink over time and it overheated and died. 
Today i have a R9 280x which i also tried with liquid metal with no luck and no temperature decrease at all over the previous MX-4 . 
The thing is they told u that the Liquid metal is not safe to use on Aluminum but it's actually more than that.U shouldn't use it on bare copper too because it makes a reaction with the cooper and the copper absorbs it.. When the gallium contacts pure copper, the metals irreversibly alloy.This reaction proceeds until there is no more copper or all the gallium is consumed..
The reaction is: Ga + Cu → CuGa2 [67%] + Cu3Ga [11%]. ( + Ga2O3 [12%])
That means liquid metal will literally eat into the copper until the gallium is gone, and the resulting copper-gallium alloy is a silver-ish color. Yes, - in case you are wondering - the gallium in liquid metal reacts this way despite the fact that there are other metal stabilizers present in Liquid Metal. 

I had liquid metal installed on my FX 8350 for like 6 months now and i started seeing the temps going way too high where they've never been before even with a conventional thermal paste.So before the metal drying out completely on me and causing anymore damage i quickly disassembled my rig only to find out that the CPU and my Be Quiet Pure Rock 120 cooler has been fused together.. 
I tried somehow to pull the lever on the motherboard socket so i can remove the cooler with the CPU attached to it without causing damage and using a fine knife i succeeded in separating the CPU form the cooler. 
As i thought the Liquid metal has dried up but not only that.. It left a nasty rock solid residue on both the cooler and the CPU which i then needed to sand down then Lap both surfaces and polish them to get rid of the liquid metal.
All that costed me like 2 to 3 hours to make it properly and without damaging my gear.
After applying the Mx-4 everything was working fine like it should.. 
Unfortunately i have no pics from installing the liquid metal for the 1st time so i can show u that it is properly installed and this is not my mistake.But i've been working on computers for more than 5 years now and i'm somewhat skilled so i guess you guys can trust me on this. 
I literally spend like whole day in research for the Liquid metal datasheets for the ingredients and how they work/react etc. 
It is definitely not something i would recommend putting inside a PC build and definitely you should avoid even tho it provides better thermal conductivity over conventional paste. It is only for a short period of time depending on what surface you are installing it.
I think there would be no problem if the pure/bare copper is nickel plated or at least that will slow the process  

Most people don't use it for heat spreader to block. It is mostly for people who want to delid and use it on the die to heat spreader. Fyi heatspreaders are nickle. 

[Ttnuagmada]

using it on copper will stain it and dry it out, but as long as you replace it every so often it's not going to actually hurt anything. There is very little benefit to using it between the IHS and HSF.

 

Nvidia GPU's throttle under high temps. Can't imagine how your GPU would have died from it.

[SolarNova]

On 2/1/2019 at 11:42 PM, HristoBB said:

Well this product unfortunately costed me a gtx 780 with perfect overcloable chip. Because it dried up and overheated.
And probably my cpu would've died too if i didn't noticed the temps going way too high .
And that drying happened for like 4-5 months. Cpu survived only because it's not generating so much heat and the process is slower. 

Your GPU didn't die because of the TIM, it died because you didn't monitor the temps and let it overheat. So the product didn't cost you your 780, you did. Mistakes were made, such is life, learn from it. monitor your temps constantly especially when OC'ing.

 

LM TIM works fine, it is a known fact that you have to replace it a few times a year when its in contact with bare copper.

 

 

[LmnSour]

It's pretty much common knowledge, or should be, that Galium reacts with Cu. Intel IHS nickle plating is low quality as galium reacts and dries on those as well. I've never had an issue with other Ni plated heatsyncs.

 

That said, even dried, the thermal conductivity is plenty to keep a GPU and/or CPU from overheating. Somehow this sounds like operator error to me...

[kattan_tha_man]

I seriously can't be the only person who noticed that all of the percentages in the op's chemical formula telling us how the gallium forms alloys and oxides only add up to 90%.  WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER 10%?  Not trying to be a smart ass.

[LogicalDrm]

2 hours ago, kattan_tha_man said:

Not trying to be a smart ass.

 

Well, if you look carefully, this thread has been dead for almost a year. Please do not revive dead threads without very good reason. This isn't such. Locked.