Aren't two radiators supposed to be better than one ?

[Dschijn]

This is the set they offered in the past: https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-xlc-predator-360-push-pull-add-on

And here are these exact fans (they have different IDs since they have different cable length to match the Predator fans):

https://www.ekwb.com/shop/catalogsearch/result/?q=EK-Vardar+F4-120ER+type+bulk

[r34lj4k3]

I tried a similar configuration to the one suggested with top and front both being intake and found the performance to be much worse. I think the fans have to fight each other too much to make it worthwhile and I even still had an exhaust fan working to help remove the air in the case. I have a similar setup to you for now but I'll be moving over to the corsair 1000d and a couple of full custom loops soon. 

[Game_on]

I finally turned the fans on the ekwb aio to intake I've noticed way better air flow all components are staying in the 40c to 41c this is with the cpu overclocked to 4.5 ghz and both gpus at 2050 mhz including the vrm being watercooled as well seems better so far so good I have had to add more liquid with time seems like all air has not left the system just yet means that the second radiator I installed recently is not all the way full just yet 

[Dschijn]

5 hours ago, r34lj4k3 said:

I tried a similar configuration to the one suggested with top and front both being intake and found the performance to be much worse. I think the fans have to fight each other too much to make it worthwhile and I even still had an exhaust fan working to help remove the air in the case. I have a similar setup to you for now but I'll be moving over to the corsair 1000d and a couple of full custom loops soon. 

Definetly a sealing and case problem. The radiator fans have to be sealed of the inside of the case. If you run all rad fans as intake you most certainly will get a positive pressure situation inside the case and air might flow back around the rad into the fan intake.

Also the case has to be quite open in the back (mesh) to allow the positive pressure to equalize and exhaust air passivly through the back.

In the Dark Base Pro 900 it works perfectly fine to have 6x140mm intake (front and top) and just a single 140 in the back.

 

1 hour ago, Game_on said:

I finally turned the fans on the ekwb aio to intake I've noticed way better air flow all components are staying in the 40c to 41c this is with the cpu overclocked to 4.5 ghz and both gpus at 2050 mhz including the vrm being watercooled as well seems better so far so good I have had to add more liquid with time seems like all air has not left the system just yet means that the second radiator I installed recently is not all the way full just yet 

Glad to hear that. You could consider sealing the free holes and slots around the radiators to avoid any air getting back to the radiator from the inside of the case. Air should only get from the outside to the rad -> into the case -> out of the case. Holes and slots could push air from the inside of the case around the radiator back to the intake of the radiator fans.

[ravenshrike]

18 hours ago, Game_on said:

Ok thank you for the advice I highly appreciate you my brother the ek fans offer better static pressure as of today vs the noctua but yes you are right about having the same fans working together 

They offer better pressure than their old 120s, although the 140s are neck and neck between the companies. The new Sterrox 120 fans are out, but nobody's done any really thorough tests on them yet.

[Game_on]

Thank you my brother for your advice I need to get a really good case for future reference I'm using the nzxt switch 810 at the moment even if temps have dropped some I have to keep the front air filter off because it's not very friendly when it comes to letting fresh air in due to it's poor design air has to travel around and in instead of directly in its one of those that air is brought in thru the side and in I'm referring to the front intake 

 

I'm planing on getting one more radiator maybe a ek 240 pe for the floor of the case it has 2 fan cut out at the floor don't know if this will bring down temps even more ? This would be two ek 360 pe and one 240 pe working together ?

 

A total of 3 radiators

[Dschijn]

A 3rd rad with QDCs could be too much for the pump. Adding a 3rd rad will not give you a huge temperature jump.

[Game_on]

Your right. I only have one qdc I could always remove it 

 

Do you think adding one 240 pe would drop it by maybe 10c or 5c ?

At that moment I would have to keep the door off as well for all the air flow to be good 

I always keep the gold ac running right next to me

I apologize cold ac

[Dschijn]

what is your current delta between water and ambient air? A 240 would drop that delta by ~15%

[Game_on]

According to my stand up ac unit it's reading 75F to 74 F don't know if the ac units room temp reading is accurate don't know water temps 

 

Both gpu x 2 and cpu are at 40c to 44c Under load of course That is like around 6c drop ?

[r34lj4k3]

On 5/26/2018 at 5:17 AM, Dschijn said:

Definetly a sealing and case problem. The radiator fans have to be sealed of the inside of the case. If you run all rad fans as intake you most certainly will get a positive pressure situation inside the case and air might flow back around the rad into the fan intake.

Also the case has to be quite open in the back (mesh) to allow the positive pressure to equalize and exhaust air passivly through the back.

In the Dark Base Pro 900 it works perfectly fine to have 6x140mm intake (front and top) and just a single 140 in the back.

 

Glad to hear that. You could consider sealing the free holes and slots around the radiators to avoid any air getting back to the radiator from the inside of the case. Air should only get from the outside to the rad -> into the case -> out of the case. Holes and slots could push air from the inside of the case around the radiator back to the intake of the radiator fans.

Definitely isn't. 

 

Positive pressure will indeed happen...that's the goal whether or not you have your top fans as intake. Hot air rises and doesn't have a way to magically get sucked back into the top intakes unless you are running your fans really high which is kinda stupid if you are watercooling and aren't benching at that particular moment.  

 

It seems like you make a lot of assumptions and it leads you to give some advice that isn't the best...maybe work on that? Your information on the temp delta between ambient and water temp is accurate. 

 

19 hours ago, Game_on said:

That is like around 6c drop ?

Please read this for information on how your radiators work:

 

https://www.ekwb.com/blog/radiators-part-2-performance/

 

Using that as a general guide, if your system is pumping 700w worth of heat into your loop, you'd need two PE series 360rads with 3 fans on each at 1600rpm to dissipate it (this is not perfectly accurate, I made an educated guess about your system's power draw and assuming your liquid is 10C hotter than ambient). 

 

Also, your DDC has better head pressure than a D5 due to it's higher rpms so don't listen to that other guy about not being able to pump through another QDC.

[Dschijn]

9 hours ago, Game_on said:

That is like around 6c drop ?

No! I was talking about delta temperatures! If the delta (temperature difference) between water (e.g. 40°C) and air (e.g. 25°C) is 15 Kelvin you would need to double your radiator surface area to reduce the water by 50%. Since you only want to add a 240 to a 360+360 system, you don't double, you just add 1/3rd of your current rad surface area to the loop. 1/3rd of 50% reduction is 16,7% which is the ~15% I mentioned. 15% on the 15 Kelvin delta would be a drop by 2,25 Kelvin. Which would give you a water temperature of e.g. 37,75°C.

All the numbers are just an example and just a very rough calculation.

8 hours ago, r34lj4k3 said:

Definitely isn't. 

 

Positive pressure will indeed happen...that's the goal whether or not you have your top fans as intake. Hot air rises and doesn't have a way to magically get sucked back into the top intakes unless you are running your fans really high which is kinda stupid if you are watercooling and aren't benching at that particular moment.  

 

It seems like you make a lot of assumptions and it leads you to give some advice that isn't the best...maybe work on that? Your information on the temp delta between ambient and water temp is accurate. 

Rising hot air is totally neglectable in a system with fans moving air (he got 7 fans...). If your front intake is super restrictive, it might be easier for the fans to recirculate air from the inside of the case which has a positive pressure and less resistance to suck into the front. This can happen by a small margin, but still have an impact on your temperatures. Keep in mind, that this depends on the case (e.g. Dark Base Pro 900).

Maybe giveconstructive feedback and HELP instead of trying to outsmart ppl
The help I give are possible reasons/options to improve and help. Not scientific facts.

 

7 hours ago, r34lj4k3 said:

Also, your DDC has better head pressure than a D5 due to it's higher rpms so don't listen to that other guy about not being able to pump through another QDC.

"The other guy"... oh cmon ^^
I said it "could" not work. Based on the problems he initially had it is a possibility.
Beeing rude doesn't make you smater or "right". Drink a milk and chill.

[Game_on]

Ok I understand I appreciate you my brother I appreciate anybody trying to help not many people stick around and answer almost every crazy question I ask you guys are all great help and great people 

 

Lol every time I feel I'm finally done with my build I come to find out I'm not I don't think I'm going to stop till I get 30c or very close to it 

 

Even if it takes 4 radiators to 5 radiators in total with my Ambient temps at 25c currently

 

I will definitely need a custom open air case Or something like jays two cents with 4 radiators and a box fan sounds crazy but without the box fan maybe with regular ek fans 

[Dschijn]

Hahah, yes. I run a huge Mo-Ra3 420 which is 420x420mm radiator with 8 huge Noctua NF-A20 200mm fans on each side. And with low rpm I can't stay under 30°C.

[Game_on]

What do you get with high rpm temp ?

Is my room temp 25c good for what I'm trying to achieve with maybe 4 to 5 radiators I'm serious about this lol

I might will need an extra maybe d5 pump 

 

7 hours ago, Dschijn said:

Hahah, yes. I run a huge Mo-Ra3 420 which is 420x420mm radiator with 8 huge Noctua NF-A20 200mm fans on each side. And with low rpm I can't stay under 30°C.

Wow brother I didn't know what kind of radiator you spoke about till I looked it up that looks insanely crazy lol 

[Dschijn]

I tested with my old setup:

i7 6950x @ 4,3GHz with 1,29 V and GTX 1080 Ti FE @ 2025MHz which drew ~600W. 200mm fans at full speed (=800rpm) I managed 5K over ambient.

[Tech22]

On 5/23/2018 at 8:42 PM, Game_on said:

 

You need to increase fan speed or add a 3rd fan to the front radiator. Also, I would recommend running your GPUs in parallel, so have two tubes in between the gpus connecting them, like this: (Not mine) 

This will make the temps slightly hotter than before, but both GPUs will be the same temp. I would be more worried about coolant temp instead of component temp. If your fluid is at more than 50C (with it is not) then I would be worried. Your coolant and therefore component temp cannot be lower than your air temperature in the room. That temp of 53C for 2 GPUs is pretty normal for an airflow restrictive case and two 360mm radiators. I see you have X299, if your are using anything higher than a 7920X then I would use at least a 360mm radiator alone for just the cpu and a 480 (total area) for 2 gpus. Also, what speed is your pump running at, if it is less than 50% then I would recommend speeding it up a bit.

[Game_on]

Pump is at full speed im going to add 3 quad radiators and one more pump this should lower my temperature to below 30c or to 30c room temp is 25c

 

That would be 2 x 360mm and 3 x quad radiators a total of 5 radiators

 

I'm either going to build my own open air case or buy the thermaltak P7 

[airdeano]

3 hours ago, Game_on said:

Pump is at full speed im going to add 3 quad radiators and one more pump this should lower my temperature to below 30c or to 30c room temp is 25c

That would be 2 x 360mm and 3 x quad radiators a total of 5 radiators

yeah, not going to happen even with ten radiators.

only way to get the load temperatures to near ambient is airflow.. lots of sub ambient air flow and NOISE.

 

[Game_on]

He got it to 26c why not ?

Even if I have to add all the fans on full speed it can be done.

[airdeano]

umm read title, dumbest thing they'd ever done..

[Game_on]

I just don't want anything restricting my performance at all gpu performance start to drop at 38c at least with titan Xp collectors edition it does.

My gpu x 2 start off at 2062 mhz as soon as they hit 38c that gets downclocked to 2050 mhz and when they hit 50c they go down to 2032 mhz I'm trying to avoid any kind of downclock period it was the one and only reason why I started water cooling 

[airdeano]

whats your overclock?

[Game_on]

I have a stand up ac unit going the entire time right next to me I'm sure the ac unit makes much more noise than any pc fan I respect your opinion and definitely understand your concern but the noise simply does not bother me none 

[Kenjo]

6 minutes ago, Game_on said:

I have a stand up ac unit going the entire time right next to me I'm sure the ac unit makes much more noise than any pc fan I respect your opinion and definitely understand your concern but the noise simply does not bother me none 

why are you even running cpu + gpu on 2 radiators in the same loop ? , 1 x 360 for gpu and 1 for cpu not same loop... just a thought