AMD's official "eff you GPP" response: A Gamer's Choice

[Razor01]

13 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

You're just pissing me off. You re parroting time and again a false narrative.

There a lot of cards worth being picked off in Amd's line up. Why do you think Nvidia released the 1060 so fast? Why they released a 1070ti?

Talk about capabilities? They can game just fine, freesync monitors are as good and way cheaper. Relive is arguably on par on better than shadowplay. Drivers are correct. They developed new techs like the possibility to use ssd directly which is useful for some.

The only place amd is lacking is where Nvidia is just acting like a douche, namely Deep learning. They insist on keeping this closed source and to me that's very dangerous considering the area of science it touches.

 

You are getting pissed off, I'm not because I'm not emotional about this at all lol.  I'm looking at it from who is capable and who is not.

 

Was the 1060 released so fast?  It came out 3 months after the 1070 and 1080, that is the normal time frame for performance to mid range launches from nV.  It has always been that way.  They did release the Titan faster than anyone was expecting though.

 

Err arguably better, well, what is arguably then?

 

Oh so a card with an SSD made for professionals where Quadro DGX's actually have the same capabilities as those cards with even more horsepower (and more features too).   AMD made a niche product good for them because that is all they can do, niche products where price means very little since those projects usually have budgets that out weight the hardware costs by multiple of millions.

 

Oh So all the work nV has done to get AI and deep learning to where it is now should be shared by everyone too right?  OK great, we now are looking for communistic practices for these companies.  Do the work and give hand outs to the rest of their competitors so their competitors can feed off of them and then profit from them?

 

Look I'm going to go back and point out to you this, Do you remember what ATi stated what the way the its ment to be played program was all about?  Paying off developers, there were also a general undertone to anyone talking bad about it the same thing right?

 

Do you really know where nV put their money for that program?  It wasn't for developers, there were two or three games that were actually paid through the program, which were because of bundles.  The rest of the money..... Please look it up, I can tell you but its better if you look it up. 

 

nV does many things, many more things than AMD and ATi has ever done with their money to improve the game industry.  It might be improve games to their benefit, but that is the consequence of business.

 

They are in NO WAY shape or form ever going to help their competition out when they are spending money they have earned.  I would not even expect any company in any industry to do that, period.

[Razor01]

13 minutes ago, Kamjam21xx said:

Kindof both. I think nvidia professional cards are frivolous like brand new work trucks instead ones that have been used 4-6 years.

 

Idk of anyone that would need say 4 gv100 cards and 4x cpus except someone for industrial lights and magic Or something.

 

Even then the specs of a gv100 arent actually 8,400 more than the closest AMD card. Youd beat out the gv100 with 2x wx9100 in the terraflops department. 

 

Wx not w

 

who gives a shit about tflops when one Volta quadro will get you 3 or 4 times the performance of its closest pascal quadro?  And that pascal quadro beats the pants off of AMD's best firegl cards in most applications.

[pas008]

52 minutes ago, Notional said:

 Nonsense. NVidia makes a processor and supplies drivers/eco system for that chip. Everything else is made by the vendor, including branding, sales channels, pricing, etc. 

 

They don't manufacturer it for others. It's their product and their branding. You're spouting nonsense.

guff its geforce product which is branded geforce, pricing is actually set by nvidias reference cards lol,

 

and if nvidia wants they can pull the plug on any company just like they did to xfx and amd to palit, now if it was their product why isnt these companies still MANUFACTURING cards for nv/amd?

 

and for the record did intel not step in to these aibs on overclocking bios on locked cpus? oh wait they had to stop because its an intel endproduct, but according to you its their product

 

 

[Kamjam21xx]

2 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

who gives a shit about tflops when one Volta quadro will get you 3 or 4 times the performance of its closest pascal quadro?  And that pascal quadro beats the pants off of AMD's best firegl cards in most applications.

Someone who uses the that power to get better preformance than a gv100 by buying 2 cards.

[laminutederire]

5 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

 

In this case yes. First of all because it can prevent scientific progress. Second of all, the critical nature of AI, closed source means a security danger waiting to happen because we can't review properly their code.

Funny you should mention that, well all serious players will share some part of their work if they want science to progress. Keeping it secret only makes sense on a business standpoint. From this arises the obvious conclusion being that Nvidia because of the way they want to handle their business do not allow healthy competition and they prevent research in AI to be done transparently.

 

Well the Titan V is a niche product and so are many Nvidia products, you don't see me throwing you that as an argument. Why? Because it is irrelevant. They all produce niche products that justify part of their research. Nvidia does it, Intel does it, Volkswagen does it and so on.

 

Arguably means that you can make a case for it. Relive is on par to shadowplay, and if I remember right, it is in some cases faster, and it keeps a lower footprint.

 

I'm getting missed off because you're the kind of annoying people who are always sure they are right and never listen to everyone, while spreading religiously that something is better than the competition. I'm pissed off when people do this with AMD, or Apple, or with Asus ROG products. Because it's useless most of the time and certainly do not make it a discussion. It makes it one guy trying to always convince the others and never moving a millimetre away from his original ground.

 

[pas008]

1 minute ago, laminutederire said:

In this case yes. First of all because it can prevent scientific progress. Second of all, the critical nature of AI, closed source means a security danger waiting to happen because we can't review properly their code.

Funny you should mention that, well all serious players will share some part of their work if they want science to progress. Keeping it secret only makes sense on a business standpoint. From this arises the obvious conclusion being that Nvidia because of the way they want to handle their business do not allow healthy competition and they prevent research in AI to be done transparently.

 

Well the Titan V is a niche product and so are many Nvidia products, you don't see me throwing you that as an argument. Why? Because it is irrelevant. They all produce niche products that justify part of their research. Nvidia does it, Intel does it, Volkswagen does it and so on.

 

Arguably means that you can make a case for it. Relive is on par to shadowplay, and if I remember right, it is in some cases faster, and it keeps a lower footprint.

 

I'm getting missed off because you're the kind of annoying people who are always sure they are right and never listen to everyone, while spreading religiously that something is better than the competition. I'm pissed off when people do this with AMD, or Apple, or with Asus ROG products. Because it's useless most of the time and certainly do not make it a discussion. It makes it one guy trying to always convince the others and never moving a millimetre away from his original ground.

 

sry I have to point out that the fanboyism in this thread is just as comparable considering many think manufacturers here should have a right

so foxconn should have a right in apple products?

[Razor01]

18 minutes ago, Kamjam21xx said:

Someone who uses the that power to get better preformance than a gv100 by buying 2 cards.

Tflops don't matter when those tflops can't be used lol.

 

First off lets talk about multiple card setups when using 3d programs and rendering.

 

While actually making things in a 3d modeller, you can only use one card for your work, so half those flops are now wasted.

 

Rendering is up to the renderer if those flops can be used or not, and rendering for pro work tend to use CPU's over GPU's anyways. 

14 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

In this case yes. First of all because it can prevent scientific progress. Second of all, the critical nature of AI, closed source means a security danger waiting to happen because we can't review properly their code.

Funny you should mention that, well all serious players will share some part of their work if they want science to progress. Keeping it secret only makes sense on a business standpoint. From this arises the obvious conclusion being that Nvidia because of the way they want to handle their business do not allow healthy competition and they prevent research in AI to be done transparently.

 

 

OH so you don't care if CUDA is the problem right?  Cause all the other companies that build on cuda, they can release their work as open source if they want to lol.  So yeah there is no problem there.  Bitch about that to the other companies that build their stuff on CUDA.  Cause most of the AI work outside of the what nV is doing with cars, which is all nV's work they can do what they want with it.

 

14 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

Well the Titan V is a niche product and so are many Nvidia products, you don't see me throwing you that as an argument. Why? Because it is irrelevant. They all produce niche products that justify part of their research. Nvidia does it, Intel does it, Volkswagen does it and so on.

Yeah Titan V is a niche product and it blows the pants out of anything AMD can make right now in that niche.

 

Is it really irrelevant when you look at that way?

14 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

Arguably means that you can make a case for it. Relive is on par to shadowplay, and if I remember right, it is in some cases faster, and it keeps a lower footprint.

And you remember wrong they are competitive in nature but when you add in the graphics cards they run on they aren't competitive at all, because the hardware nV has is better in ever single metric.

 

Do I like AMD's driver interface better than nV's yeah it looks better, but nV's I find more functional because I'm use to it and everything is all in one list instead of me looking around for things.  If you want subjective I can get subjective too.  But I'm not, you can't argue with AMD's tech being behind by 1 full generation, and soon to 2 full generations.  This is why the GPP is there now in the first place.

 

You can't fix a problem by making another person look bad, fix yourself first.

 

In US, businesses, they have a lot to learn when it comes to how Japanese companies function.  If there is a problem fix it first before you point fingers on who caused the problem.  AMD likes to point fingers first when they are down.  Internally they are not capable of competing with nV at any level in the GPU market.

 

14 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

I'm getting missed off because you're the kind of annoying people who are always sure they are right and never listen to everyone, while spreading religiously that something is better than the competition. I'm pissed off when people do this with AMD, or Apple, or with Asus ROG products. Because it's useless most of the time and certainly do not make it a discussion. It makes it one guy trying to always convince the others and never moving a millimetre away from his original ground.

 

 

You are getting pissed off because there is no argument here and you are trying to create one by taking fringe associations.

 

nV is miles ahead tech wise, there is nothing AMD can do about it now or in the short term or mid term, possibly even in the long term.  This has nothing to do with price of products.  A 1060 is based on Pascal based architecture, it is more capable of doing pretty  much everything right now in ever market that its in better than AMD products.

 

I don't get pissed off about these things because it really has nothing to do with me because I know the products but it does irritate me that is can happen, but I accept that because in business ownership of ones own products matter. 

 

I would not like it if my consumer comes up to me and says I will not buy your products unless this guy here can sell them as they wish. I will tell that consumer, piss off, I made it, I don't have a good working relationship with that other guy, so no I'm not going to sell to them just to make you happy.

 

[JediFragger]

1 hour ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Unless AMD pulls a Ryzen for Radeon. Idk when that will ever happen though.

 

They did it once, it was called the 4850/4870. Then they got greedy again and ramped the prices.

[laminutederire]

45 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

 

For me CUDA is a problem for what it wants to be. If it wants to be a scientific standard the it needs to be open source, solely because science needs it to be.

 

Amd makes product in niche that beat Nvidia for those purposes, this goes both ways.

 

You should say that either and cards are as good or better if shadowplay is better... need I remind you that if a software works better on inferior products then the software kinda have to be better, isn't it?

 

That's the fucking thing you need to understand if you're a tiny bit smart: they do compete on almost every price point.

And yet you say they compete nowhere... so you have to be trolling at some point.

 

The most important thing the US should learn to be fair is respect. They disrespect both consumer and the competition by doing every thing they can to get money.

 

I'm pissed off because you propagate false information.

 

Okay now I'm sure you're trolling. Sure the 1060 is better than everything than amd has ever produced, then have fun with yours thinking that you couldn't have spent your money better.

[Razor01]

51 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

For me CUDA is a problem for what it wants to be. If it wants to be a scientific standard the it needs to be open source, solely because science needs it to be.

 

Amd makes product in niche that beat Nvidia for those purposes, this goes both ways.

 

You should say that either and cards are as good or better if shadowplay is better... need I remind you that if a software works better on inferior products then the software kinda have to be better, isn't it?

 

That's the fucking thing you need to understand if you're a tiny bit smart: they do compete on almost every price point.

And yet you say they compete nowhere... so you have to be trolling at some point.

 

The most important thing the US should learn to be fair is respect. They disrespect both consumer and the competition by doing every thing they can to get money.

 

I'm pissed off because you propagate false information.

 

Okay now I'm sure you're trolling. Sure the 1060 is better than everything than amd has ever produced, then have fun with yours thinking that you couldn't have spent your money better.

 

 

CUDA is not a scientific standard, its an API, just like Direct X and Direct Compute ok?

 

Anything built on top of CUDA can be opened up that is up to the company building the application.

 

Oh ok they compete at price but when it comes to tech AMD graphics cards sucks thank you for your enlighting thoughts on the subject.  AMD is a cheap mans graphics card ok I get it.

 

I don't need to understand a consumers perspective when looking at the technology and what it can do.  Pascal runs circles around GCN in pretty much everything, even in mining in most cases, the only one it doesn't do it in in mining is XMR based coins where Vega based GPU have RPM and that helps it out.

 

As I said before, tech wise, Pascal does the same thing as GCN with 17% less die space, 25% less bandwidth, 20% less power at least and at greatest, 50% less power.  That is what the tech can do.  AMD's tech can't do the same things as Pascal because of that.  We are talking about the tech not what AMD prices their cards at.  Pascal's tech gives nV the ability to price a smaller chip higher or vice versa, forces AMD to price their chips at lower prices and thus dropping AMD's margins.

 

 

Quote

 

The most important thing the US should learn to be fair is respect. They disrespect both consumer and the competition by doing every thing they can to get money.

 

I'm pissed off because you propagate false information.

 

Okay now I'm sure you're trolling. Sure the 1060 is better than everything than amd has ever produced, then have fun with yours thinking that you couldn't have spent your money better.

BS, its not about respect to the consumer, business is war, you want to win you will make enemies period, I'm sorry if you are touchy millennial or being influenced by them, sorry not everyone should get a medal because they participated, the 10th place people in race shouldn't get a medal.  If you believe that way, or try to teach people that, that isn't how the world is run lol.

 

Firstly you are talking about the rights of the consumer, oh wait what about the rights of the company that makes the damn product.  Screw their rights right?  yeah their Trademarks, their Copyrights, their IP, mean nothing when it comes to the consumer?  Do you give a shit about their rights, when you right comments like that, you don't give a shit about their work.

 

And this shows, right there with your CUDA statements.  nV made that, they made the AI market, they made HPC for graphics card market.  The tens to hundreds of millions of dollars they spent to get things done with CUDA, from the release of the G80?  Do you know what AMD stated about CUDA, it was going to be dead lol? What to know something else ask yourself how much resources AMD put into their HPC and DL programs?  Almost nothing outside of making their GPU's, they don't give a shit about getting other companies to do work on their GPU's, other companies don't want to switch over to AMD and Open CL now because they are already have CUDA based applications up and running. Keep believing in crap that you hear marketing say, because it will brainwash you.  Money talks BS walks.  talking about something is unfair when the other company puts in piles of resources to get things done for the betterment of other companies in that industry, when AMD doesn't have a leg to step on is not a good Company, its a shit talking company.  Playing sports, ever hear, don't talk shit unless you can back it up?  You know why that is?  Because if ya talk shit then the competition will be gunning for you, they will make even harder for you and it will make you look like a fool at the end if you can't back up it up.  AMD did the same thing with Vega, talk shit all day and night long and hyped it to unreal levels, and it backs fired.  AMD is great at talking smack I'll give ya that one!  But they sure can't back anything up.

 

Where was AMD in all this?  They were saying we are better because we open source our stuff.  BS, they aren't better their products stick, their HSA initiatives were too late to the game and didn't have enough funding to go up against what nV did with CUDA.  Again it comes down to money.  AMD has no money, so all they can do is whine and use "feelings".

 

Get over it and grow a spine lol.  If feelings ran this world everyone would be in the dog house.  There would be no such thing as progress, "oh I don't want to step on your toes".  No ya need to breaks some eggs to make an omelette.

 

What false information, Pascal is way ahead of Vega?  Pascal is way ahead of Polaris?  Polaris and Vega are actually closer to Maxwell than Pascal?  I just broke down the % of die sizes, power and bandwidth, want me to add in amount of cores in there hmm?  How about how nV was able to get some many cores, geometry units and rops into their architecture but AMD can't seem to do that with the same die space?  Opps did I step on your toes with that one?  Do we need to see just how far nV is ahead of AMD tech wise with Volta vs what from AMD?  Nothing?

 

Oh so for the past 3 years they actually haven't been doing anything from an engineering point of view to improve their tech right, even though they are spending how much money a quarter in R&D for graphics?  WTF are they doing?

 

You want to know something, I'm sorry with 400 million a year for R&D and AMD only cared about getting their CPU's up finally after a decade of pond scum eating and watching Intel get fat selling the same shit over and over again with little improvement. I'm not look forward to it in the graphics side from AMD.  Since a decade in the graphics side is like 20 years on the CPU side.

 

Worse yet they sold off their mobile SOC division to Qualcomm to keep their CPU's going, and now they don't have the IP there to keep up with nV either, since nV has integrated their learning from mobile tech into their main GPU's.

 

I'm sorry but AMD complaining about this now, is their fault this is happening, and there is nothing they can do about it legally to stop it.  Its their fault they removed R&D from their graphics division.  Its their fault they sold off their mobile division to keep their CPU division afloat. 

 

You can't force nV not to use what ever they can for wanting to control their brand and exercise that control over their brand when they own their own products.  And you can't look at it this through a myopic eye of AMD marketing or Kyle's point of view since he clearly doesn't know anything about commercial speak  (yeah he himself didn't know it was protected lol, for a guy in the press, that is pretty embarrassing wouldn't you say?), of course they are going to say its bad for market, just like they said Gameworks was bad for the market lol.  Yeah ok great, Gameworks is not bad for the market, game works is bad for your cards because they run like shit with high geometry content lol.

 

Do you realize AMD knew about this geometry problem oh a decade ago?  If we knew about it 7 years  ago, they knew about it before that lol while designing their GPU rights?  Yeah its been that long and they still haven't fixed their problem, well caught up to nV.  usually it doesn't' take more than one generation to catch up when a problem is that visible, but for AMD yeah looks like their R&D problems started long before when we saw their R&D being cut.  Guess what people started leaving before their R&D was cut lol.  They saw it coming.