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D2ultima

How mobile i7 CPUs work (information guide)

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Posted (edited) · Original PosterOP

Hey guys. I keep seeing a lot of people (especially Linus himself okay, he knows now, but won't openly admit they're throttling in videos even though intel XTU will light up throttle flags all over the place if you even fall 100MHz under max turbo during sufficient load) having no idea how mobile i7s actually work, so I'm going to make a very small little info guide (nowhere near as detailed as my other two) to explain mobile CPUs better to people. This guide only applies to Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge, Haswell, Broadwell and Skylake mobile i7 chips (with a little i5 or ULV chip data). Any chips before that I do not claim to know a great deal about. This is also my third guide, check out the other two!

 

Turbo clocks 

 

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Mobile CPU turbo clocks work very differently than the desktop variants do. Basically, the "base" clock that people so often point at should never be run at. If your CPU is running at this under load, YOUR MACHINE NEEDS TO BE FIXED SOMEHOW. The chips have 4 core, 3 core, 2 core and 1 core turbo boost clocks. Usually, the 4 core and 3 core turbo multiplier is the same, and the 2 core and 1 core turbo multipliers are higher. In general, whatever your "max turbo boost" is for the chip (for example, my i7-4800MQ is 2.7GHz base with a 3.7GHz max turbo) is what your single core turbo boost clock is. 100MHz under that (3.6GHz in my case) is your 2 core turbo boost clock, and a further 100MHz under this (3.5GHz) is your 3 core and 4 core turbo boost clocks. So, to summarize: 1 core = max turbo, 2 core = max turbo - 100MHz, and 3 core & 4 core = max turbo -200MHz for most i7 chips. This goes as far back as Sandy Bridge. For a full list of their turbo boost ratios, you can check out THIS LINK (starts at Haswell; scroll up for previous chips or down for later chips).

 

Essentially, under load, you should ALWAYS be operating at your 4-core turbo boost multiplier. If I were to livestream for 6 hours, I would sit at 3.5GHz for 6 hours. If I'm playing Binding of Isaac rebirth, I'm probably going to hover around 1.7GHz to 2GHz because I don't need any more power from the chip. Understand? If your mobile chip under sufficient load, downclocks below its 4-core turbo boost multiplier for ANY REASON, your chip is "throttling" and you should fix it. Linus recently reviewed the GS70 stealth from MSI and said that the chip hit 2.9GHz at one point but he was happy that it wasn't throttling... that was wrong. It WAS throttling, and should have kept at 3.3GHz constantly (the 4-core boost for an i7-4710HQ).

 

Here I want to make a big point. Mobile CPUs are *EQUIVALENT* in power to desktop CPUs of the same generation if running at the same clock speeds with the same number of cores/hypertheads. For example:HERE is a 3DMark 11 run with an i7-3770K at 4.8GHz, and HERE is a 3DMark 11 run with an i7-3920XM at 4.8GHz (run page). See how the physics scores (CPU-only, resolution-independent) are about the same? There's your proof. 

 

Next, throttling can occur in one of a few ways. The three most common I'll list below:

- First, your chip can overheat. Usually the thermal throttle limit is set to 95 degrees celcius on 1 core or the package (but can be higher), at which point the chip will slowly go down to its base clock speed in an attempt to not hit the TJMax (danger zone) of ~100c that's set for mobile i5/i7 CPUs. If this is happening, you need to fix your cooling. Either use a better thermal paste (NO, MX-2 and MX-4 are not good enough) and/or clean out your fans, check if your heatsink is warped (yes it can happen), or buy a notebook with better cooling for the kind of load you're going to put your CPUs through.

 

- Second, you can run out of power (watts/TDP). This is was usually as a result of an inefficient power adapter, being on battery, or simply the motherboard of the laptop not allowing enough power to be fed to the chip (either by a physical limitation, or by not allowing the turbo boost power limit to be increased), however to date all HQ chips (the only chips intel is using anymore) throttle to their default long power TDP (usually 45-47W) after a couple minutes (more on that below). If this is your issue and buying a bigger power adapter (assuming one is available) does not fix it... then buy a better notebook (or one of Clevo's desktop-CPU-using notebooks if you have a HQ chip).

 

- Third, you can run out of current (amps). This is a weird one. Usually people do not notice current limit throttling, but it does exist. I initially thought voltage throttle existed, but it was simply current throttle showing up due to voltage settings which went away as I increased voltage. It is MUCH harder to diagnose this unless you are running a program like Intel XTU or NBR user Dufus' Limiter Reasons (now included in Throttlestop 8) and specifically look for the appropriate throttle flag. To fix current limit throttling, you need to raise your current limit for your processor, or raise your voltage. Your BIOS may disallow you raising your current limit, or it may have a limiter on how high it can be set. If this is the case, you need a new laptop. It is very difficult to test if you are allowed to adjust current limit freely. If you find a repeatable instance where you DO get current limit throttling, set "Processor Current Limit" to 256A and try the scenario again. If you do not current throttle, you are capable of increasing your current limit freely. 256A is sort of a magic number for benches like XTU/Linpack where you experience current throttle. Voltage didn't matter as far as throttling went once set to 256A; if you have too little voltage, you'll simply BSOD or shut off (like a normal failed OC). Here's Linpack not throttling since I discovered the 256A limit (don't mind the low Gflops score; I didn't bother closing other programs while doing it).

 

Overclocking

 

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How much you can overclock is easy to figure out. It's limited by the second number in the chip's name. I'll summarize for you below:

For Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge: i7-x6xxQM = no overclocking allowed, i7-x7xxQM and i7-x8xxQM = +400MHz OC potential and any XM chip = unlocked multiplier. Ramp a XM chip UP TO 4.8GHz if you want.

For Haswell and Broadwell: i7-x7xxMQ/HQ = +200MHz OC potential, i7-x8xxMQ/HQ = +400MHz OC potential, i7-x9xxMQ/HQ = +600MHz OC potential and any MX chip = unlocked multiplier. Good luck cooling unlocked Blast Furnace Haswell though (no unlocked broadwell chips exist).

For Skylake: 6700HQ = cannot have its turbo bins adjusted at all (neither up nor down). 68xxHQ = unknown; possibly +400MHz OC potential. 69xxHQ = +600MHz OC potential. 6820HK = partially unlocked slider. Many laptops stop at 4GHz or 4.2GHz, but some may allow you to set what you want. MSIs and Clevos (with Premamod) have the best chances of a high OC.

 

These OC potentials apply to all the turbo clocks. So for example with my 4800MQ again, I can hit 3.9GHz on 3 or 4 cores, 4GHz on 2 cores and 4.1GHz on 1 core. If I had a 4900MQ however (2.8GHz base, 3.6GHz default 4-core turbo) I could hit 4.2GHz on 3 or 4 cores, 4.3GHz on 2 cores and 4.4GHz on 1 core. This does not mean I need to boost 1-core above whatever OC I wish. I could easily set my CPU to run at 3.8GHz max and whether it's using 1 core or 4 cores for a task, it will never cross 3.8GHz. This can be done if you have a machine with an unlocked BIOS with OCing options or using Throttlestop 8 (haswell/broadwell only) or Intel XTU (with a locked BIOS) for overclocking, unless the motherboard is programmed not to supply power or voltage to a CPU beyond stock.

 

Just like with a desktop CPU however, it's up to you to apply enough but not too much power and voltage, as well as keeping it cool enough when OCing. We do have a LOT OF OPTIONS when trying to OC these things (if your BIOS allows it)  ;). Don't OC if you have a thin and light notebook or one with generally bad cooling (like a consumer HP, or a Razer Blade) though. Especially with Haswell or Broadwell chip, those will probably overheat and die.

 

Also, don't let the inborne TDP fool you... these things can draw a lot of power. Again, here's my CPU pulling 84W under load running Linpack at stock speeds with an undervolt (increased current limit and increased TDP limit) for some proof... and that's just stock. I've heard of 4930MX chips at high clocks pulling well in excess of 130W.

 

Addendum: It seems that in MSI's brilliant decision to ship 180W PSUs with 120W TDP GPUs and ~50W CPUs in their GT60 and GT70 line, the BIOS in those systems is configured to act like the 49xxHQ chips do. The 49xxHQ's power throttling is explained in another section below. No, you cannot unlock it with one of Svet's custom BIOSes. We've tried. If you know how to hack your BIOS well enough though, you can unlock it, but if the thought "maybe" appears in your head before "I can do that" when you read this sentence, then you REALLY shouldn't bother trying =D. Also, even if you do it and succeed, constant load with an overclocked CPU and top-end GPU may very well pull more than the power brick allows for long periods and drain your battery to zero while gaming.

 

HQ chips and their power limitations

 

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The HQ line of chips, while having an allowance for OCing (eg i7-4980HQ's 3.8GHz 4-core base turbo can hit 4.4GHz), are very bad at actually holding their clocks. I've asked multiple users across multiple notebooks to test for me, and I've compiled the information about these extremely weird chips here. Also, the 48xxHQ/58xxHQ chips are almost never sold, so I have almost no information on them. Also, please note that every couple of months, I meet exactly one person that has a 4710HQ that can surpass the power limits indefinitely like a 4710MQ would. This is EXTREMELY rare and does not happen for 99.9% of the other chips. If your chip works like that, then congratz. You'd better hope nobody gives you a motherboard replacement. Also, PLEASE do not tell people that the chips can all behave that way, because they do not. YOUR chip might... but not the other 25 peoples' chips who bought the laptop from Amazon or Newegg or XoticPC etc the same day you did.

47xxHQ/57xxHQ chips: Increasing TDP limits and power time windows via BIOS or XTU do not actually change for the chips (I am unsure about AMPs). This means their max OC is likely not going to happen. In fact, under heavy load at stock boost clocks, there is a high likelihood of the chips downclocking, even at stock, due to haswell being extremely power hungry. There is a slight circumvention to this however. Undervolting the processor and the cache can help reduce power drawn, and if you have a good enough chip, you can undervolt and overclock and mostly keep your clocks... but this is more luck of the draw than ever before, as unlike buying chips standalone, you would need to buy a whole new laptop to try for another roulette. If you have a bad chip like my 4800MQ is (I need stock voltage to overclock; compared to my last one which could do -80mV & +400MHz stable) you're never getting that changed. Good luck with the silicon lottery!

There also seems to be an issue depending on the BIOS of the machine. Most chips lock themselves to their 57W turbo boost short power max value for some duration if load spikes, however some machines (like the GT72 from MSI) lock themselves to the chip's 47W limit 24/7. New information has proven to me that each machine appears to be different... I've seen GT72 owners who can't pass 47W, then another showed up who gets his 57W boost... and it's not the only machine that has shown such varying behaviour. I've seen it in the Alienwares, where one guy gets a 2.5GHz throttle under most loads and another guy is telling me his chip doesn't do that (with screenshots to boot). So now whatever machine you buy, you're playing a roulette to find one that at the least will give you the short power 57W allowance (except Clevos; every Clevo owner has had his short power boost granted to him, without fail). As if the roulette of getting a good chip wasn't bad enough, since undervolting is the only way to make your TDP limits stretch.

This is a serious problem in demanding games like Star Citizen, or other exceedingly CPU-heavy games like other Cryengine 3 titles, Frostbite 3 titles and MMOs, especially in a scenario where the action spikes and your CPU load spikes... if the chip needs to and attempts to draw more power, your $3000 laptop will suddenly start throttling like a piece of crap. And guess what! SLI has a CPU performance overhead too. I've started noticing it a lot in a few recent games like Dying Light and GTA V... the GT80 is even less appealing to me now. Angry about this? Go bitch at MSI, ASUS, Lenovo, Dell, Gigabyte, and Intel (don't bitch at Clevo; they'll happily sell you a desktop i7 in a notebook. With SLI).

48xxHQ/5850HQ chips: No information available. Have had no contact with users owning this chip not met an owner of these chips who has been willing and/or able to run sufficient tests for me. If you own this chip, PLEASE contact me so I can have you run tests. Until such time, assume behaviour of 49xxHQ chip line.

49xxHQ/5950HQ chips: increasing TDP limits and AMPs etc via BIOS or XTU *DOES* actually work for these chips. Confirmed using both Alienware and MSI notebooks. The problem however, is that the CPUs only keep the higher power limits for approximately 2 and a half minutes, just like with the 47xxHQ chips. This is more than enough for most benchmarks however, as anything that doesn't cross the base power consumption for the CPU will hold (such as GPU-heavy parts) and the parts that stress the CPU are usually ~1 minute long at most. When under serious load in gaming, however, such as unlocked FPS BF4 or if you're a livestreamer etc? These chips are not for you. They're not gonna keep their clocks (likely not even stock, unless you SERIOUSLY undervolt) under extended load times.

 

Now, these issues have been recently proven to be fixable via BIOS hacks abusing intel's microcode. This is the only known way of doing it, and only works on machines that allow you to flash custom firmware easily (MSI and Clevo notebooks). The Alienwares would have been the most likely to allow it in their BIOS, but their BIOSes are both heavily gimped since the soldered machines showed up and also locked down with Secure Flash, preventing custom BIOSes from being used without flashing an unlocked BIOS to a blank BIOS chip and replacing your BIOS chip entirely. Note that while custom BIOSes for the MSI models exist (mainly from Svet) and can be used, they generally do not contain the microcode hack necessary to allow full control. If CPU power is truly important to you, you want either an older MQ-using machine from Clevo or Alienware, a desktop CPU-using laptop from Clevo, or a Skylake 6820HK or 6920HQ CPU in MSI or Clevo machines only. And the reason the last option exists, is...

 

Skylake is a bit different:

6700HQ chips: No clock adjustments are possible (even turning down turbo boost seems impossible in tested machines; you WILL have 3.5GHz 1-core, 3.3GHz 2-core, and 3.1GHz 3-core and 4-core turbo, or you disable turbo entirely). There is no manual adjustment possible and no free +200MHz overclock granted. I do not know whether it holds its power limits or not... all laptops tested have either overheated before breaking the power limits, or simply not hit the power limits whatsoever. I have no idea whether this CPU can hold over its inborne TDP limit under load, and I suspect that I will both never know, and also that it will never matter; you're probably not going to draw enough from this slow chip.

Speaking of slow, remember that this chip is a 3.1 GHz 4-core turbo lightweight. Every single haswell mobile non-low-power i7 (I.E. ignore the 4702HQ and 4712HQ), if working properly, is at worst, equal to this chip. If you have one of those machines already, this is not an upgrade, and is most likely a downgrade, unless your current chip cannot hold its turbo clocks for some reason.

6820HQ chips: Can overclock +400MHz to 3.6GHz on 4-core turbo in a similar fashion to the 6920HQ below. No data on ability to hold TDP, however assumption is that it can based on the rest of Skylake's mobile chips. With the 6820HK, however, there is little reason for this chip to exist, similar to the 6700HQ. This chip essentially should have been what the 6700HQ should have been (extra L3 cache, 3.2GHz base 4-core turbo, etc) with the 6820HK being the overclockable upgrade.

6820HK chips: Max overclock and max power draw depends on the system. I've seen ASUS models limit this CPU to 4GHz maximum OC, and also to 4.2GHz maximum OC (the sliders don't go higher). It generally CAN hold its TDP under load, at least in a CPU-only scenario, in most all laptops tested... but some laptops will limit its maximum allowed power draw. 65W maximum has been seen on ASUS machines. Suggest Clevo's P6xxRx series and MSI's GT72 (if found for cheap). MSI's GT72 would be suggested normally, but it's often priced equally to the P7xxDM line, which uses desktop chips (4GHz 4-core BASE clocks on a 6700K), which leaves little reason to buy a GT72. The GT80 Titan *CANNOT* make use of this, or the 6920HQ chips well with SLI 980M and SLI 120W 980 solutions except for the purpose of benchmarks. The machine is designed to use a 330W power brick and draw any extra power from the battery, and will run down the battery to 0% after a couple hours of gaming (happens at stock clocks with 120W 980 SLI) at which point the machine will throttle components to make the 330W brick suffice. While attaching a second 330W brick is physically possible, the machine's EC is set to ignore the extra power and use from the battery, and an EC hack is required to make it work properly.

6920HQ chips: Can overclock +600MHz to 4GHz on 4-core turbo just like the 49xxHQ and 5950HQ chips can. Holds its power draw in all laptops tested; may have maximum power draw limit in certain laptops (ASUS). Truthfully, as far as a mobile chip for a non-overclocker goes, this is as good as it gets. It has the highest base turbo (3.4GHz 4-core turbo), and all the technologies of the CPUs, as well as the elusive 8MB L3 cache for mobile CPUs that so few chips seem to have. It overclocks to a respectable 4GHz for a non-unlocked CPU. The only real issues with it are that the price is overkill (it costs more than a 6700K and is a WORSE chip), the fact that it lacks Iris Pro for its iGPU, and the fact that it's soldered. But if for some reason you need a mobile CPU, this is a decent idea. I know I am rather blunt and harsh, but never let it be said I don't give credit where it's due.

 

Finally, be wary that if you're finding yourself trying to get less power drawn (either for limit avoidance, or for flat out less heat), a complication with undervolting has proven itself to exist: The lower you reduce voltage, the more amps you potentially need and thus higher the chance of current limit throttling taking place. If you undervolt to reduce power draw and temperatures in any notebook and suddenly you run into current limit throttling in certain more demanding workloads, your only bet is to increase your current limit. Note that not every notebook will allow your current limit to increase, and if it does, it may not go beyond a certain point, due to either artificial (BIOS, UEFI) or physical (board design) limitations.

 

So the chips suck but your laptops can be really thin now, so that's good, right? Thankfully somebody with half a brain has made them suck less with Skylake in terms of allowed power draw, and I'm very happy for that. But we need some choice and modularity to return as an option.

 

 

What do the letters at the end of their names mean?

 

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As of Ivy Bridge and later:

M = These are socketed chips... this means I can take it out and put in a new one if I feel like it, just like on a desktop. These are no longer manufactured. (Note that Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge chips with a "M" can be soldered, but Haswell cannot)

H = These are soldered, unlike the M chips. They cannot be changed at all without a motherboard change. They often (not always) also have higher turbo boost potentials (not higher OC potentials), have Iris Pro graphics and contain no extreme variants (regardless of what MSI's marketing team says about their GT80 Titan and its 4980HQ, 5950HQ or 6920HQ chips).

Q = These are quadcores.

X = These are unlocked quadcores, and are considered "extreme" chips. Y'know, like i7-990X and 4960X and 5960X chips. Note that while Sandy/Ivy "M" and "QM" chips can have a soldered variant, NO EXTREME CHIP CAN BE SOLDERED. They are all, without fail, socketed.

K = These are unlocked quadcores. Only part of Skylake's mobile CPU line, it may act as previous "X" chips do, but I cannot make guarantees as to whether or not they are TDP limited like other H and HQ chips are until people who get them test them (preferably under my directive). Same meaning as desktop K chips.

U = These are "Ultra Low Voltage", also called "ULV". Their voltage actually isn't that low, and it really should mean "ultra low power". There are no quadcore ULV chips; only dualcore + hyperthreading. They are very very weak and not meant for heavy workloads of any kind, with a 15W TDP lock regardless of temperatures before throttling takes place (if you're lucky, your motherboard may allow 20W). All ULV chips are unable to overclock. If you wish for a point of reference, the weakest desktop i3 CPU is better than the strongest ULV i7.

 

If a chip does NOT have a "Q", "K" or an "X" at the end of the name, BUT contains a U, M or H, then it is not a quadcore, even if it has i7 in the name. There ARE dual-core mobile i7s. Macs use them.

If a chip does NOT have a "X" in its name, it is NOT an "extreme" CPU. I don't care who says what. If there's a "Q" or "K" and not a "X", it's not an extreme chip.

Note: the Q now applies to i5 chips in the Skylake line (finally). ALL i5 chips prior to Skylake however are dual cores, regardless of what anyone says to you.

 

Be wary that as of ~June 2014, ALL new notebooks use soldered (H, HQ or ULV) chips from Intel, including the GT72 and GT80 Titan people are raving about from MSI (except Clevo's desktop CPU socket lines; P7xxZM, P7xxDM and P870DM). This means that MSI's GT80 Titan with its "extreme CPU" is not selling an extreme CPU at all (feel free to legally demand they change this advertisement). No new laptop is, because mobile Extreme CPUs do not exist any longer.

 

We have officially stepped backwards ~13 years in laptop hardware. And people are happy about it.

 

 

What's REALLY so bad about H/HQ (soldered) chips? Why do you bash them? Why not just buy a desktop if you want rendering power and stuff?

 

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I actually don't care about the existence of H chips or not. Soldered chips have been around for ages and they'll continue to be around for ages, as there are form factors that require them. Desktops have soldered CPUs as well. The PROBLEM is that there is no longer any choice to be made, and people defaulting to "why not just buy a desktop" is part of the problem why it got this way in the first place. I already listed their power limitations above in its own section, but I'll extrapolate further why soldered-only is terrible for the consumer.

 

The ENTIRE point of the H-series chips is usually because it has a lower height profile, allowing for a lower profile heatsink to be installed for thinner notebooks, and that it's cheaper soldering to the board than making a socket (though we pay the same price, because Intel sells them for the same price; so this is moot to us consumers). There is no other point to their existence. None. The problem is that all the HQ chips are generally too hot to handle for the kind of thin laptops people expect them to go into, and the machines are DESIGNED to overheat. They're not designed to handle their parts at the stock operating conditions, and in my eyes that makes them garbage. Other people seem to think that it's fine, because "it's a laptop", and "laptops aren't meant to work right". That's retarded thinking extrapolated from 2005, and everybody should stop it.

 

Another thing: it means motherboards (especially with soldered GPUs too, also in those thin notebooks) are much more expensive. The whole PC is on the board. You can't change anything. You can't move anything. If something goes wrong ANYWHERE, you lose the entire system, save unsoldered RAM and hard drives. The machines are quite literally disposable. I understand that for certain form factors it is necessary, but then they don't cost $1500 and are usually for basic work. There's no reason in the world why a high performance laptop should have this. Would you ever buy a high performance desktop that's the same way? I know you won't. If you're like 90% of other people I've come across online since the advent of soldered-only, you probably thought to yourself "hell no, but that's a desktop, you buy a desktop for that". That's part of the problem again.

 

Now you might be saying to yourself: "I don't need power like that! I just want to game a bit and do everything heavy on my desktop when I'm at home!". And that's pretty valid of a thought... for YOU. But not everybody is like you. There's people who buy business lines of laptops (like Dell's Precision M line, HP's Elitebook/Zbook line, Lenovo's W-series, etc) and who even need portable server types of machines like Clevo's P570WM. There's people who need to process 4k video on-site for production companies. There's people who move around a lot and can't use a desktop at home because they're not "at home" enough. There's people who have FAR higher demands for everyday usage than you would ever consider putting on your desktop unless you were running a stress test. So you might be saying now, "yeah, well, let them buy their business machines! That'll get them sorted". Well no, it doesn't. At all. Because as I said before: ALL MOBILE CHIPS are soldered now. This means they ALL have the power limitations I listed above, and thus are absolutely inferior to previous models for actual power users. There's no choice in the matter. ALWAYS REMEMBER: the issue is LACK OF CHOICE, not that soldered, crippled chips exist.

 

Intel has simply decided that we no longer require performance chips in laptops (Skylake has performance at acceptable levels... though it took too long to get such good chips), no longer require modular hardware and no longer need to worry about upgrading our systems. And people said "YES PLEASE! GIVE ME THIN NOTEBOOKS!" in response. I will repeat it again: We have officially stepped backwards ~13 years in laptop hardwareAnd people are happy about it.

 

 

I hope this clears up a bit about how mobile CPUs work; I don't really see too much more that I need to add here, but I hope this helps you all understand things better.

Also, some of the pictures shown are from a friend of mine, Mr. Fox, over on the notebookreview forums. I don't own a XM or MX chip and I am unlikely to ever own one unless it is donated to me, so I showed you his pictures of high OCs instead.

 

If you want the SLI information or the vRAM information guide, they're in my sig!

Edited by D2ultima
Updated Skylake further. And fixed this broken forum formatting AGAIN

Clevo P870DM3 (Eurocom) | i7-7700K | 32GB DDR4 2400MHz | GTX 1080N SLI | 850 Pro 256GB | 850 EVO 500GB M.2 | Samsung PM961 256GB NVMe | Crucial M4 512GB | Intel 8265ac | 120Hz Matte screen | 780W PSU

 

THE INFORMATION GUIDES: SLI INFORMATION || vRAM INFORMATION || MOBILE i7 CPU INFORMATION || Maybe more someday

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Posted · Original PosterOP

You're welcome! That's the point of these guides I write whenever I get bored enough to do another one (and/or see enough people confused).


Clevo P870DM3 (Eurocom) | i7-7700K | 32GB DDR4 2400MHz | GTX 1080N SLI | 850 Pro 256GB | 850 EVO 500GB M.2 | Samsung PM961 256GB NVMe | Crucial M4 512GB | Intel 8265ac | 120Hz Matte screen | 780W PSU

 

THE INFORMATION GUIDES: SLI INFORMATION || vRAM INFORMATION || MOBILE i7 CPU INFORMATION || Maybe more someday

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Off topic but is there any way to hard lock the Turbo boost frequency on desktop CPU as in my Xeon E3 can boost to 3.8ghz with an 3.4ghz base but I want it to stay at 3.8ghz on all cores when fully loaded.


System Spec: H87 mobo from Zotac, I3 4130, 4GB ddr3 1600mhz Cas 11, WD green 2TB all in side of a Cooler Mater Elite 120

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Off topic but is there any way to hard lock the Turbo boost frequency on desktop CPU as in my Xeon E3 can boost to 3.8ghz with an 3.4ghz base but I want it to stay at 3.8ghz on all cores when fully loaded.

Unfortunately, I have not fiddled with desktop turbo clocks. I know for sure they work very differently from mobile turbos, which work 24/7 as needed, so you would have to find this information elsewhere. Sorry I couldn't help more.


Clevo P870DM3 (Eurocom) | i7-7700K | 32GB DDR4 2400MHz | GTX 1080N SLI | 850 Pro 256GB | 850 EVO 500GB M.2 | Samsung PM961 256GB NVMe | Crucial M4 512GB | Intel 8265ac | 120Hz Matte screen | 780W PSU

 

THE INFORMATION GUIDES: SLI INFORMATION || vRAM INFORMATION || MOBILE i7 CPU INFORMATION || Maybe more someday

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Huh. Neat.


Laptop: Latitude E4310 w/ i5 580M, 8GB RAM, 120GB 840 EVO, Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 wireless card, Windows 7 Pro x64

Main PC: sleeper Dell on profile boi

Zeus: 2x 1266MHz PIII, Supermicro P3TDDE, 1x 512MB PC133 ECC, Radeon 9600 Pro 128MB, 30GB DiamondMax Plus 8 + 80GB IBM DeskStar, Windows XP Pro SP3

 

On 2/26/2019 at 2:37 AM, campy said:

when my girlfriend comes over and sees my dining room and kitchen counters covered in pc parts from pre 2006 she immediately takes off her clothes

nothing sexual, she just doesnt want the nerd dust on her clothes 

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Cool. Shame I have a crappy AMD laptop


Spoiler

Main PC || CPU - Xeon E3 1231 V3 || Motherboard - MSI Z97 PC Mate || CPU Cooler - Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO || RAM - 1x8GB HyperX Fury Blue || Graphics card - MSI TwinFrozr V GTX 970 || Storage - 1x BX100 250GB, 1x 1TB WD Blue || PSU - EVGA G2 750W || Case - Corsair 200R

TV PC || CPU - Pentium G3258 @ 4.5GHz 1.2V || Motherboard - MSI H81M-P33 || CPU Cooler - Stock || RAM - 2x4GB random Samsung RAM || Graphics card - Intel HD Graphics (will be R9 390 in a few weeks) || Storage - 1x SanDisk SSD Plus 120GB, 1x Samsung 1.5TB HDD || PSU - Corsair CX600M || Case - None (soon to be Cooler Master Elite 430)

 

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Thanks for this. I see lots of misinformation about mobile CPUs on this forum.

That's my main reason for doing this.


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THE INFORMATION GUIDES: SLI INFORMATION || vRAM INFORMATION || MOBILE i7 CPU INFORMATION || Maybe more someday

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Going to give this a little bump. Won't be bumping again for a while, but I rather more people see.


Clevo P870DM3 (Eurocom) | i7-7700K | 32GB DDR4 2400MHz | GTX 1080N SLI | 850 Pro 256GB | 850 EVO 500GB M.2 | Samsung PM961 256GB NVMe | Crucial M4 512GB | Intel 8265ac | 120Hz Matte screen | 780W PSU

 

THE INFORMATION GUIDES: SLI INFORMATION || vRAM INFORMATION || MOBILE i7 CPU INFORMATION || Maybe more someday

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Gonna bump this because I said so and because I just updated it and because too many people are drooling at and/or misunderstanding MSI's GT72 and GT80.


Clevo P870DM3 (Eurocom) | i7-7700K | 32GB DDR4 2400MHz | GTX 1080N SLI | 850 Pro 256GB | 850 EVO 500GB M.2 | Samsung PM961 256GB NVMe | Crucial M4 512GB | Intel 8265ac | 120Hz Matte screen | 780W PSU

 

THE INFORMATION GUIDES: SLI INFORMATION || vRAM INFORMATION || MOBILE i7 CPU INFORMATION || Maybe more someday

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Bump because added entire new section.


Clevo P870DM3 (Eurocom) | i7-7700K | 32GB DDR4 2400MHz | GTX 1080N SLI | 850 Pro 256GB | 850 EVO 500GB M.2 | Samsung PM961 256GB NVMe | Crucial M4 512GB | Intel 8265ac | 120Hz Matte screen | 780W PSU

 

THE INFORMATION GUIDES: SLI INFORMATION || vRAM INFORMATION || MOBILE i7 CPU INFORMATION || Maybe more someday

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Very informative! 


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Posted · Original PosterOP

Very informative! 

That's why I do them! Glad you liked. Feel free to check the other guides if you want to know anything about them. Way too much misinformation in the tech world >_>


Clevo P870DM3 (Eurocom) | i7-7700K | 32GB DDR4 2400MHz | GTX 1080N SLI | 850 Pro 256GB | 850 EVO 500GB M.2 | Samsung PM961 256GB NVMe | Crucial M4 512GB | Intel 8265ac | 120Hz Matte screen | 780W PSU

 

THE INFORMATION GUIDES: SLI INFORMATION || vRAM INFORMATION || MOBILE i7 CPU INFORMATION || Maybe more someday

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thank you for the guide..

 

now I have something to say about mobile CPU's. didn't know much of the M,Q, H, X..etc..friends and families usually ask me about tech stuff

 

about the M (socketed) chips, you only used i7 as examples..since I am not that informed about laptops, are there i3's with M chips too?

just thinking if upgrading that i3 mobile cpu is the same with desktops (same gen, socket etc)

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i liked it even though i have absolutely zero interest in mobile hardware, but thanks for taking the time to make this!


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Posted · Original PosterOP

thank you for the guide..

 

now I have something to say about mobile CPU's. didn't know much of the M,Q, H, X..etc..friends and families usually ask me about tech stuff

 

about the M (socketed) chips, you only used i7 as examples..since I am not that informed about laptops, are there i3's with M chips too?

just thinking if upgrading that i3 mobile cpu is the same with desktops (same gen, socket etc)

Yes, say you had an i3 4130M or something. You should be able to put in an i5 or something unless your motherboard can't supply enough power to it or something. The socket will take it; the BIOS may be another story. I don't know a whole lot about the i3s and i5s, so I didn't list them here, but they follow the same rules (with different overclocking rules). Since I didn't know as much about them, I didn't put them in this guide.

 

 

i liked it even though i have absolutely zero interest in mobile hardware, but thanks for taking the time to make this!

You're welcome! I do these guides when I see people exceedingly confused about a whole lot of things. Especially when a lot of big-name reviewers/etc do it. At least some people get something out of it =D.


Clevo P870DM3 (Eurocom) | i7-7700K | 32GB DDR4 2400MHz | GTX 1080N SLI | 850 Pro 256GB | 850 EVO 500GB M.2 | Samsung PM961 256GB NVMe | Crucial M4 512GB | Intel 8265ac | 120Hz Matte screen | 780W PSU

 

THE INFORMATION GUIDES: SLI INFORMATION || vRAM INFORMATION || MOBILE i7 CPU INFORMATION || Maybe more someday

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Yes, say you had an i3 4130M or something. You should be able to put in an i5 or something unless your motherboard can't supply enough power to it or something. The socket will take it; the BIOS may be another story. I don't know a whole lot about the i3s and i5s, so I didn't list them here, but they follow the same rules (with different overclocking rules). Since I didn't know as much about them, I didn't put them in this guide.

 

 

You're welcome! I do these guides when I see people exceedingly confused about a whole lot of things. Especially when a lot of big-name reviewers/etc do it. At least some people get something out of it =D.

 

thank you for the info..wouldn't really go into OCing a mobile chip..not in my interest in the first place, and i place more priority in battery use longevity..

buying just a separate i7 chip might not be readily available here as well..lol

 

i will keep this in mind when considering mobile hardware..engineering softwares i use will benefit from more cores, but takes a toll from the battery..there's not always a wall socket available when I go mobile  :D

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Posted · Original PosterOP

thank you for the info..wouldn't really go into OCing a mobile chip..not in my interest in the first place, and i place more priority in battery use longevity..

buying just a separate i7 chip might not be readily available here as well..lol

 

i will keep this in mind when considering mobile hardware..engineering softwares i use will benefit from more cores, but takes a toll from the battery..there's not always a wall socket available when I go mobile  :D

Well, when you get a lot of power, you sacrifice battery life, and thinness, etc. Unfortunately these HQ chips are sacrificing their power for thin form factors and the general market is eating them up. The problem is that you can't easily get the better hardware anymore, so it kills choice for mass sales. It's sad times. But I'm glad this was able to help.

 

Also, you should never do demanding things with a CPU on battery unless it's a ULV chip. If you're ramping the CPU up to 100% it might damage the battery. I don't know if an i3 will draw enough power to do that, but in general I usually tell people to avoid super demanding tasks when on battery for that reason.


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THE INFORMATION GUIDES: SLI INFORMATION || vRAM INFORMATION || MOBILE i7 CPU INFORMATION || Maybe more someday

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This is a little dated and off topic, but can I OC my i5 560M? I'd love to squeeze some more life out of it


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Posted · Original PosterOP

This is a little dated and off topic, but can I OC my i5 560M? I'd love to squeeze some more life out of it

I'm honestly not sure. You could always launch intel XTU and see if it allows you to OC at all. Just be wary of the heat it may product if you do overclock. If you can't OC but your chip isn't running its max turbo frequency (I believe it's 3.2GHz?) you may wish to download a program called Throttlestop 6.0 and see if you can use that to force the high multipliers. Also, setting minimum CPU performance at 100% in power settings should also help with it


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THE INFORMATION GUIDES: SLI INFORMATION || vRAM INFORMATION || MOBILE i7 CPU INFORMATION || Maybe more someday

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No one should be raving about MSI Titan or a fully loaded GT72. At the price of those with an HQ i7 is a travesty. At minimum they should have XM or like my P770ZM, a 4790K. If you are paying premium then you should demand premium not second class CPU.

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Posted · Original PosterOP

No one should be raving about MSI Titan or a fully loaded GT72. At the price of those with an HQ i7 is a travesty. At minimum they should have XM or like my P770ZM, a 4790K. If you are paying premium then you should demand premium not second class CPU.

I know. But nobody on the market knows, or cares, or even properly reviews those machines like an enthusiast does. Half the time people review enthusiast desktop CPUs they try to overclock it. Not here. Anybody who tried would instantly notice something odd about the power.


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THE INFORMATION GUIDES: SLI INFORMATION || vRAM INFORMATION || MOBILE i7 CPU INFORMATION || Maybe more someday

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In regards to power consumption, what is the result of using a mobile i7 that draws more power than the battery can provide? What if you have it plugged in, and it still draws more power than the power brick can provide? Where can you go to determine the wattage of the chip, and wattage of the power brick in the case that it is not directly listed (I know these two, just asking for future readers)? My reasons for asking this is that when I had my i7-4500U, I noticed major slumps in performance when the notebook was unplugged, and when plugged in, I noticed a significant boost in performance. Also, when using 3rd part chargers, there was another slump in performance due to them not meeting power requirements. Again, I'm asking for this info in case another forums member stumbles upon this thread in need of help. I also think it might make a good edition to first post, if you agree as well of course.


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Posted · Original PosterOP

In regards to power consumption, what is the result of using a mobile i7 that draws more power than the battery can provide? What if you have it plugged in, and it still draws more power than the power brick can provide? Where can you go to determine the wattage of the chip, and wattage of the power brick in the case that it is not directly listed (I know these two, just asking for future readers)? My reasons for asking this is that when I had my i7-4500U, I noticed major slumps in performance when the notebook was unplugged, and when plugged in, I noticed a significant boost in performance. Also, when using 3rd part chargers, there was another slump in performance due to them not meeting power requirements. Again, I'm asking for this info in case another forums member stumbles upon this thread in need of help. I also think it might make a good edition to first post, if you agree as well of course.

None of this I really considered for how people would actually attempt to use it. Usually you buy a higher end chip because you want to know what can be done when you shove power at it.

Anyway, the answers to some of these are:

1 - On battery, usually the CPU will downclock via hotkey software, windows settings, or even sometimes the EC of the laptop. If you have a TDP limit for battery (which you should; though I do not know where to find the rated TDP limit, or if that limit is via the EC and differs between manufacturers; as Clevo's desktop-CPU laptops obviously limit it so the battery is not instantly killed).

 

2 - If you overdraw the power brick, it depends. Usually, you'll shut off the machine somehow. Most likely everything will freeze, and then your machine will "black screen shut off", then instantly restart itself. If you use MSI's GT60 and GT70 notebooks though, it will start drawing from the battery if you cross their power brick's 180W limit. This grants limited benefits for small-power requirements, but is not a long-term solution as eventually the battery will die. Also, some power bricks (like Clevos) can deliver a bit higher than their rated limits for some time, so a burst drain will not usually incur a shutdown (unless it's say... 50W more than you have). Another thing that can happen, especially with boards not meant to deliver large amounts of power, is that the whole system will throttle itself due to lack of available power; similarly to how being on battery works.

 

3 - The rated chip wattage can be found on Intel's ark.intel.com website. It does not however list the "burst power" of the chip (in the case of my 4800MQ, I have "47W" TDP rated, but "57W" short boost power. Which means my maximum power draw is 57W, but under normal circumstances, I won't sit at 57W, but instead I'll drop to 47W after some time (like how the HQ chips work). The only way to tell a chip's short power boost is to either check with an unlocked BIOS or to use Intel XTU and see the "default" setting for the CPU. This will not tell whether or not your motherboard will allow you to sit at the CPU's short power potential indefinitely or not though.

 

4 - 3rd party chargers may not provide proper voltage for your operating needs. AND there is another big thing: chargers have two kinds of ratings. I do not remember the names for them, but one type of charger is "rated delivery" and another type is "rated draw from wall". Basically, a 240W PSU rated for delivery will draw much more than 240W at max load from the wall, as power is lost in conversion. It is not uncommon for 276W or so to be pulled from 230W and 240W PSU bricks. The other kind will NEVER draw more than 240W from the wall. This means its actual delivery is less to the system, and it could leave the system starved for power (which can cause performance loss as cards etc downclock to compensate). It is why updating current ASUS/Alienware notebooks from "180W" to "240W" bricks improves performance all-round, but Clevos with 180W see no benefit from the change. It's the different rating on the brick.

 

I might consider adding in all this. I do not know.


Clevo P870DM3 (Eurocom) | i7-7700K | 32GB DDR4 2400MHz | GTX 1080N SLI | 850 Pro 256GB | 850 EVO 500GB M.2 | Samsung PM961 256GB NVMe | Crucial M4 512GB | Intel 8265ac | 120Hz Matte screen | 780W PSU

 

THE INFORMATION GUIDES: SLI INFORMATION || vRAM INFORMATION || MOBILE i7 CPU INFORMATION || Maybe more someday

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