Paint is getting an update!

[TechyBen]

13 hours ago, mr moose said:

If your point is only metro apps are laggy then no, if your point is I only experience laggy metro aps on low end hardware then yes.

 

As far as anecdotal evidence goes they carry equal weight, however if all we have is anecdotal evidence and we can rule out hardware differences (because we have mentioned what we have been using), then we have to assume different cause for the experiences.

Because, it's really not that complicated,  the complicated part in this is trying to articulate what we mean using only text. That and not being able to interject into a thought process the same way you can interject when you hear something that is inconsistent with what you are trying to say.

Metro apps might be less optimised (code has not been around as long) or kitbashed (API and tools to transfer from existing apps). But as we are talking about MS Metro apps, then it's probably MS, not other companies using multi platform code.

 

IMO Metro on Win8 was slower on menus and 7 just feels more snappy. Same goes for the Setting page in 10 vs 7. It may just be the page waits for all elements to load before screen (or window) refreshing. It might be it's checking a LOT more for online content on each app etc (pinging either to download new widgets/icons/pictures or pinging to upload tracking/bug reports/gui user experience tracking).

 

However, IMO Metro does not feel as quick and responsive. Full stop (hardware independent!!!). That may be the animations, and not the code.

[mr moose]

11 hours ago, bradwiggo said:

Yes and I stand by those claims? Are you going to pretend windows is a perfect OS? 

No, I am saying slow hardware causes ALL apps to be laggy.  nature of the beast.

 

11 hours ago, bradwiggo said:

You responded to something that I didn't actually say. I never said MS apps are worse for everyone, you took my quote out of context. And now you say my experience is moot just because you don't agree with it? 

 

You said ms apps were slow on low end hardware, I simply said all app s a re low on low end hardware.  If you want too keep arguing the point then I can only assume you don't like the fact that low end hardware is a problem and you rather it be strictly because it's an MS app.

11 hours ago, bradwiggo said:

Your point "all apps are laggy on low end hardware" is just plain wrong as well. There are many lightweight small apps that run fine on low end hardware. Sadly Microsoft apps aren't included in that, obviously there are non Microsoft apps that lag on low end hardware as well, but the ones I use don't (at least most of them don't, there are one or two more intensive ones that do). 

See, you are still trying to force the insinuation that it is only MS apps that run slow on low end hardware. 

11 hours ago, bradwiggo said:

Note: Don't really see the point of continuing this argument any longer, you are right in what you are saying, as am I, mainly because we are saying two different things, apologies for not wording my earlier posts better. 

Apologies for the continues long winded discussion.

 

 

9 hours ago, TechyBen said:

Metro apps might be less optimised (code has not been around as long) or kitbashed (API and tools to transfer from existing apps). But as we are talking about MS Metro apps, then it's probably MS, not other companies using multi platform code.

 

IMO Metro on Win8 was slower on menus and 7 just feels more snappy. Same goes for the Setting page in 10 vs 7. It may just be the page waits for all elements to load before screen (or window) refreshing. It might be it's checking a LOT more for online content on each app etc (pinging either to download new widgets/icons/pictures or pinging to upload tracking/bug reports/gui user experience tracking).

 

However, IMO Metro does not feel as quick and responsive. Full stop (hardware independent!!!). That may be the animations, and not the code.

Having first hand experience with schools trying to run everything from adobe to 3rd party calculator apps and web browsers on hardware ranging from top of the line to second hand busted crap that wasn't even good when new, I can assure you there are too many variables/configurations to be able to say what exactly causes an app to become laggy, with the one exception that slow low end hardware is nearly always being used.   

 

[TheKDub]

Now they just need to bring back Solitaire, MineSweeper, Pinball, etc... (And not the shitty ad plagued versions from the M$ Store)

[dalekphalm]

Just now, TheKDub said:

Now they just need to bring back Solitaire, MineSweeper, Pinball, etc... (And not the shitty ad plagued versions from the M$ Store)

IIRC the sourcecode for Pinball was lost totally. So if they ever put a new release out, it'll be a reverse engineered version.

[mr moose]

9 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

IIRC the sourcecode for Pinball was lost totally. So if they ever put a new release out, it'll be a reverse engineered version.

Or it'll be an existing copy that comes inside it's own little emulator/vm. 

[TechyBen]

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

snip

All apps are *slower* on slower hardware. Not "slow hardware causes ALL apps to be laggy."

The devil's in the detail.

 

The user may not notice an i7 with NVME for programs that were snappy on a P4 running in Windows 95. However, yes. Slow hardware will make most apps slower. This is not Windows XP VS Vista, where there was specific problems with drivers and over the top GUI elements (glass/whatever they called it) being rendered and slowing things down. That was an example of the software running poorly independently of the hardware (and games are another example of this, where poor coding can just kill performance. See the RTX and BF5 missing any optimisation and trying to render all pixels with RTX shaders, yes faster hardware would be faster, but the lag was not hardware dependent).

 

*But it does happen*.  Which means older software (Windows 7 style apps) could at times be faster than Windows 8/10 apps. Personally I only experienced it in Win 8, and by the time 10 was out, it's faster, with the exception of the way the new metro setting pages work. But that's the "feel" of the GUI (loading the settings page, as opposed to waiting for a window to open).

 

But Metro on 8, was a laggy as anything.

 

Even my Windows 10 vs Linux Mint laptop seems snappier in Mint than 10. But I put that down to 10 doing things in the background.

 

[mr moose]

5 hours ago, TechyBen said:

All apps are *slower* on slower hardware. Not "slow hardware causes ALL apps to be laggy."

The devil's in the detail.

 

Slow and laggy are the same.

 

 

[Tamesh16]

i mainly use paint when my 'prt screen' button doesnt sync well with one drive

[Trixanity]

1 hour ago, TechyBen said:

Mr Moose thinks every app is rendering 8k video effects from RAW camera data. And forgets some apps finish a draw call in 1ms on *any* hardware currently in use... or some people have 60fps vsync monitors. But never mind.

Well, it is known that software optimizations can do a lot without needing to bruteforce things with hardware.

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, will1432 said:

I know but this thread is specific to paint

And?  are you saying you don't want people to discuss what they determine to be an underlying issue that is intrinsically a part of paint?   I may not agree with @bradwiggo 's insinuations but I certainly defend his/her right to discuss it.