Overly complicated QoS settings in my Modem/Router combo

[Ryuhouji]

Hi there guys. I've been a long time viewer of LTT (since the old office days!) and I know that they aren't SUPER involved with the day-to-day management of the forum

Anyways, I'm  trying to set up QoS on my Frontier ADSL modem/router combo. The issue is I have a 2.7mbit(358 KBps)/0.8mbit (67 KBps)  connection. I do not have the option of a faster package. this is the fastest they offer. it's not even fast enough to be classified as broadband by FCC standards.
Before I go into detail, I need to outline a few things.
1: This ISP and Package is my ONLY Option. I live in a rural area, and this is the only ISP I have to choose from. Trust me, I look nearly every month.
2: I cannot afford to buy a new router or modem. I'm on fixed government income, and I don't have money to buy any new hardware. 
3: I have a router with DD-WRT firmware connected to the modem, and I have it hard limited to 1mbit fixed transmission rate. This is the wifi that everyone else in the house uses.
4: My PC is connected via ethernet directly to the modem. The DD-WRT router is what everyone else here connects to. My wireless devices and pc connect directly to the modem, so QoS on the DD-WRT router will not solve my problem.
5: I have already contacted my ISP and even their 'advanced' technical support has NO idea how this feature works on the modem they distribute to customers.
6: I'm not a total noob when it comes to networking, I did flash the DD-WRT custom firmware to my Linksys WRT54G router (Which was not easy, mind you.) You can assume I will understand most of your high level terminology.

7: The Modem/Router combo model is: Netgear D2200D (1-FRNAS).


So, a little more background. I live in a house I own, with 3 other people. The three other people all use wireless devices, phones, smart tv, laptops, desktop with wifi. They all use the DD-WRT router. I have a 'gaming' pc, if you're curious, I'll list the specs at the bottom. Anyways, even with the secondary router set to a fixed transmission rate of 1mbit(128 KBps)  My games generally have a ping of around 150 - 300 ping and it jumps all over when the others are watching netflix, youtube, hulu, whatever. As you can imagine, this makes for a terrible experience when playing games like SMITE (esports title) or Crossout(all movement is server sided, so driving around is super jerky)

When no one else is streaming video, my pings are always in the 75 - 85 range and it's always constant. This is quite playable normally- until someone wants to watch netflix.

So down to the question, Does anyone know how these QoS settings work and how to use them?
I'd like some help figuring this out. I figured if any community can help with this, it'd be the LTT community.
Here's some screenshots of the QoS configuration.

 

A: Main QoS settings screen

B: "Add Queue" Settings page

"View/Add Filter Rules" page

 

 

This appears to be some sort of Ancient version of QoS that I didn't even learn about in CNS classes at my vocational school back in 2007.
I would greatly appreciate help that puts me in the right direction. I am mostly interested in how to use the Queue screen (Fig. B) Since this seems to be what I'm looking for.
My goal is to prioritize tcp/udp packets sent/received from my PC and games over all other traffic. If possible, I would also like to greatly decrease my upload packet buffering as it is extremely high as seen in the advanaced ICSI Netalyzr report below:

http://n2.netalyzr.icsi.berkeley.edu/summary/id=36a470be-5015-81e3488c-a5cd-4b6a-932a (apparently they don't keep these reports for more than 12 hours... so I'll embed a screenshot instead.)

 

That's pretty much it. Any help would be appreciated. 
Please don't give me unrealistic or ignorant responses like "Move" "get better internet" " buy a new modem" etc. These are not helpful and do nothing but waste valuable LTT forum bandwidth. Thanks!

 

And my PC specs for those interested. Nothing special.
Gigabyte AB350 Gaming 3 mobo
Ryzen 3 1300x w/ stock stealth cooler, OC to 3.81Ghz (avg load temp of 58C, idle of 38)
8GB Geil Evo Spear DDR4 2400 (OC to 2800Mhz)
Asus Nvidia GTX 750TI (stock clock)
Raidmax 530SS 530w psu
WD Black 1tb 'High Performance' HDD ( the one with the larger cache)

Enermax Ostrog GT Red Case
Corsair K55 keyboard/TT Esports Challenger prime RGB mouse
Generic HP 24" IPS 60hz display OC to 72Hz 
Edit reason: icsi test link went down rather quickly, so I put in a screenshot instead.
 

[kirashi]

17 hours ago, Ryuhouji said:

5: I have already contacted my ISP and even their 'advanced' technical support has NO idea how this feature works on the modem they distribute to customers.

Pretty standard affair from most ISP's - they support getting the connection into your home, and in most cases will at least troubleshoot the Wireless network name, password, and channels to eliminate interference as much as possible. After that, any advanced networking settings are up to the customer to figure out. This actually isn't always because the support agent at the ISP can't help, but because of the liability they incur if they do help and something goes wrong. Sounds silly, but business liabilities are a real thing, and are actually why many ISP's scale back their 3rd party scope of support. Something something lawsuit something liability report something you're fired.

17 hours ago, Ryuhouji said:

Please don't give me unrealistic or ignorant responses like "Move" "get better internet" " buy a new modem" etc. These are not helpful and do nothing but waste valuable LTT forum bandwidth. Thanks!

Ummm... well, then I'm afraid I won't be of much help here. You're already on the right track using DD-WRT with your own router, so all I can really suggest is to completely bridge the modem/router potato combo unit that Frontier gave you so all routing goes through the DD-WRT router, then setup QoS priority on that instead. Aside from that, I really can't think of any other ways to improve your connection without suggesting any of the above things you don't want me suggesting.

[KuJoe]

Unfortunately to my knowledge QoS will only help with throughput, not latency. QoS is pretty bad in consumer hardware to begin with, but with such slow speeds it might be usable for your needs if somebody with more networking knowledge than myself comes along to work some magic.

 

When you say the ping is 150-300ms, are you measuring that in game, via command line, or another app? If you're measuring in game, then the first thing I would do would be to open a command prompt and ping your router directly to see if the latency is occurring within your intranet or with your internet. From there you can look into whether a software solution (like QoS) will be helpful or not. You seem to have a grasp on more advanced settings for networking and the willingness to learn so that's a plus, we just need to make sure any efforts aren't for nothing.

 

Just out of curiosity, how much are you currently paying for that internet plan? Where are you located (general area or state, don't have to be specific)?

[Donut417]

I have to concur with @kirashi, your best bet is to put their box in bridge mode and use your own router that has DDWRT on it. Not sure if this will solve all your issues, but Im sure it will help to an extent. From the speeds you posted and the fact you have Frontier communications, I dont think it will give you much better. Frontier is not in the best financial place at the moments as they bought a lot of debt from Verizon when they took over several areas with Verizon DSL and FIOS. 

[AngryBeaver]

@Ryuhouji So here is the problem you are having. QoS works by inspecting the packets, it can be simple and just looking for an IP address you specified or it can be a little more resource intensive and looking for the service being used. Either way this inspection takes CPU horsepower, so if your modem from the ISP doesn't have much to begin with then this is going to limit the amount of data you can move (bandwidth) and it can mean it takes time to inspect that data (latency). The truth is even some of your most powerful consumer Routers cannot keep up with QoS once your bandwidth gets to say 500Mbps.

 

So for example I have a powerful WRT3200. It is running a dual core 1.8ghz cpu, which is probably a lot more powerful than what your isp provided gateway has. So if I enable QoS on my gigabit connection it will drop that down to 300-350 Mbps due to all the inspections that need to happen (just checked to confirm).

So my point is running QoS isn't really going to be beneficial and can actually hurt performance overall unless you have a device powerful enough to do it. Even if you buy one of the new 1.8ghz Quad-core routers I don't think they would be able to do more than say 600Mbps, but they should be fine under that and they also shouldn't introduce much of a ping issue.

 

TLDR: That gateway is too week for QoS and causing ping issues. If you want good ping and QoS you will need to pay for a more beefy router.

[Ryuhouji]

2 hours ago, KuJoe said:

Unfortunately to my knowledge QoS will only help with throughput, not latency. QoS is pretty bad in consumer hardware to begin with, but with such slow speeds it might be usable for your needs if somebody with more networking knowledge than myself comes along to work some magic.

 

When you say the ping is 150-300ms, are you measuring that in game, via command line, or another app? If you're measuring in game, then the first thing I would do would be to open a command prompt and ping your router directly to see if the latency is occurring within your intranet or with your internet. From there you can look into whether a software solution (like QoS) will be helpful or not. You seem to have a grasp on more advanced settings for networking and the willingness to learn so that's a plus, we just need to make sure any efforts aren't for nothing.

 

Just out of curiosity, how much are you currently paying for that internet plan? Where are you located (general area or state, don't have to be specific)?

Smite and Crossout both have in-game latency tickers for ping and frame latency (which is 10ish ms because 72hz refreshrate)
I live in west central ohio, just look for the giant body of water inland, and I'm about 10 miles north of it.
I am aware that QoS settings Can cause slower speeds, but at my internet's speed, it'll hardly be noticeable to begin with.
I connect from my pc... to the ADSL modem... to the PPPoE network that Frontier runs on out here (Not even fiber!) I'd expect latency to be less than 1ms, especially since the ethernet cable I'm using is 3 ft (1 meter)
It costs me $36.98 a month. They have a plan for $42 that is listed as Up to 6mbps speeds, but I started out on that plan, and I got identical speeds to what I'm getting now. I also opted to not use their F-secure antivirus crap. I have never gotten a virus of any consequence on my pc, and I have gotten TPB's bitcoin miner script, but I nuked that as soon as i saw it. After 16 years, still virus-free, because I use the internet with common sense.

[Ryuhouji]

1 hour ago, AngryBeaver said:

@Ryuhouji So here is the problem you are having. QoS works by inspecting the packets, it can be simple and just looking for an IP address you specified or it can be a little more resource intensive and looking for the service being used. Either way this inspection takes CPU horsepower, so if your modem from the ISP doesn't have much to begin with then this is going to limit the amount of data you can move (bandwidth) and it can mean it takes time to inspect that data (latency). The truth is even some of your most powerful consumer Routers cannot keep up with QoS once your bandwidth gets to say 500Mbps.

 

So for example I have a powerful WRT3200. It is running a dual core 1.8ghz cpu, which is probably a lot more powerful than what your isp provided gateway has. So if I enable QoS on my gigabit connection it will drop that down to 300-350 Mbps due to all the inspections that need to happen (just checked to confirm).

So my point is running QoS isn't really going to be beneficial and can actually hurt performance overall unless you have a device powerful enough to do it. Even if you buy one of the new 1.8ghz Quad-core routers I don't think they would be able to do more than say 600Mbps, but they should be fine under that and they also shouldn't introduce much of a ping issue.

 

TLDR: That gateway is too week for QoS and causing ping issues. If you want good ping and QoS you will need to pay for a more beefy router.

Again, my internet speed is around 350 kilobytes per second, there's no way that the broadcom chip in my router or modem is going to be bogged down at such low maximum throughput. I do know that it can reduce maximum speed, but I'm not going to notice on my connection. The modem supports gigabit lan, and the router that I'm not using for my hardware is a minimum of 100mbps, which is 50x more than my maximum internet speed. the amount of headroom these devices have is faaaaaar more than the overhead QoS would require. My question was if anyone knows how to use the options I showed in the screenshots. I have tried DD-WRT's Qos, but with the number of clients connecting to it, it didn't make any difference.That's why my hardware is connected directly to the gigabit router/modem combo, and everyone else uses the router which is on a ethernet cable in one of the router slots on the modem. I have that router hard limited to a third of my maximum speed. The point of QoS on the Modem is to make my packets take priority over all the packets the router is sending to the gateway. This is totally feasible with this setup, however, the firmware on the modem has a very user unfriendly interface for the QoS.

[Ryuhouji]

1 hour ago, Donut417 said:

I have to concur with @kirashi, your best bet is to put their box in bridge mode and use your own router that has DDWRT on it. Not sure if this will solve all your issues, but Im sure it will help to an extent. From the speeds you posted and the fact you have Frontier communications, I dont think it will give you much better. Frontier is not in the best financial place at the moments as they bought a lot of debt from Verizon when they took over several areas with Verizon DSL and FIOS. 

I tried this long before trying to mess with the QoS settings on the modem. It was worse than the way I have it set up now. It didn't really seem like the DD-WRT settings made any difference eliminated an entire layer of networking by bypassing the router altogether.

Like I mentions, my main goal is to get the QoS settings that are posted in these screenshots working, as they seem to do what I need to do, but are using an interface that I don't fully understand. I could do trial and error, but every time I change a single option in that area, it makes me restart the modem, which is a 3 minute ordeal.

[Ryuhouji]

2 hours ago, kirashi said:

Pretty standard affair from most ISP's - they support getting the connection into your home, and in most cases will at least troubleshoot the Wireless network name, password, and channels to eliminate interference as much as possible. After that, any advanced networking settings are up to the customer to figure out. This actually isn't always because the support agent at the ISP can't help, but because of the liability they incur if they do help and something goes wrong

I had to install all the wiring in my house myself, because the guy who came out to set it up, tried to put the modem/router combo right next to where the microwave is built into the cupboard. You don't have to be a genius to know that's a terrible idea. They refused to run another line elsewhere in my home because... 'insurance' reasons. So I ran an outdoor ethernet cable under my house to the other side where it should have been, hooked up the phone jack, and installed the modem myself because the contractor they sent was not 'allowed' to do his job. As far as I'm concerned, this guy was just too lazy to do things the way I wanted him to do them. But it's fine, because the cable I installed is a much higher quality one than the one they wanted to use. I live surrounded by trees and wheat fields... there's lots of rodents, especially the kind that love to chew wires. So basically, the ISP has done nothing but take my money and offer me a sh** service. I don't think they'd even notice if I tapped into their distribution node and aggregated another 2 conductors from their roadside junction box. I also had to hook up the network interface to the box they have attached to my house, because the guy they sent did it wrong, using electrical tape and twisting wires instead of using the self-stripping taps that were built into it. Honestly, the crap ISP's get away with when they have a monopoly... it kills me. And the fcc wants to make it worse?!

[KuJoe]

1 hour ago, Ryuhouji said:

I connect from my pc... to the ADSL modem... to the PPPoE network that Frontier runs on out here (Not even fiber!) I'd expect latency to be less than 1ms, especially since the ethernet cable I'm using is 3 ft (1 meter)

I would expect that also, unless there is something wrong with the modem (i.e. queuing packets because the CPU is being taxed by the QoS it's doing). Since the modem is most likely handling the QoS in software and the CPU is already pretty small as it is, I'm just wondering if the QoS is causing more strain on it causing the high latency.

[Donut417]

9 hours ago, Ryuhouji said:

So basically, the ISP has done nothing but take my money and offer me a sh** service

Well not trying to defend Frontier, but DSL is distance limited, your probably on the edge of the network. If you live in a rural area you CANT expect them to run Fiber any where near you. They are a business, their job is to make money. While you said there are no other options there are. Satellite and LTE are generally options people in rural areas turn to. You just have to be real and understand the limitations of the technology your using. 

 

9 hours ago, Ryuhouji said:

hey refused to run another line elsewhere in my home because... 'insurance' reasons

Pretty much all ISP's do this. They put the line or use a line in the most convenient place. While some ISP's will install internal wiring, they will charge you a metric butt ton to do it. 

[AngryBeaver]

9 hours ago, Ryuhouji said:

Again, my internet speed is around 350 kilobytes per second, there's no way that the broadcom chip in my router or modem is going to be bogged down at such low maximum throughput. I do know that it can reduce maximum speed, but I'm not going to notice on my connection. The modem supports gigabit lan, and the router that I'm not using for my hardware is a minimum of 100mbps, which is 50x more than my maximum internet speed. the amount of headroom these devices have is faaaaaar more than the overhead QoS would require. My question was if anyone knows how to use the options I showed in the screenshots. I have tried DD-WRT's Qos, but with the number of clients connecting to it, it didn't make any difference.That's why my hardware is connected directly to the gigabit router/modem combo, and everyone else uses the router which is on a ethernet cable in one of the router slots on the modem. I have that router hard limited to a third of my maximum speed. The point of QoS on the Modem is to make my packets take priority over all the packets the router is sending to the gateway. This is totally feasible with this setup, however, the firmware on the modem has a very user unfriendly interface for the QoS.

Well this is wonderful. I tried to get a good product manual on this, but netgear just says it should all be provided by frontier as this is a ISP specialized device. So I think the only way to actually move forward is going to be trial and error, without more information half of those settings could do a number of things. I guess you could also reach out to Frontier and see if by some miracle they have a product manual for that thing, but if not trial and error is going to be your only path I am afraid.

[Ryuhouji]

12 hours ago, KuJoe said:

I would expect that also, unless there is something wrong with the modem (i.e. queuing packets because the CPU is being taxed by the QoS it's doing). Since the modem is most likely handling the QoS in software and the CPU is already pretty small as it is, I'm just wondering if the QoS is causing more strain on it causing the high latency.

It's doing nothing right now besides processing the traffic from the home network to the internet. I have DMZ enabled for my PC on this thing so basically the only processing between my pc and the internet is the modulation the modem is doing to send my traffic outbound and vice versa. it's not running the firewall, I am using the SPI firewall from DD-WRT since the others here are very not tech savvy. I did mention that my normal ping when no one else is doing any thing is around 80 or so milliseconds, which is perfectly fine for me. My input latency is 12ms which is lower than my network latency so it doesn't at all affect my ability to do anything. (it feels instant to me) I'm just trying to prioritize realtime packets over streaming media packets. It's a pretty simple goal, I had hoped someone here would know how to use these QoS settings. I did find a manual for this modem, it just doesn't explain how to use the fields. I'll link it below.

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1273545/Netgear-D2200d-1frnas.html?page=52

[livereal]

try these settings for an over-crowded d2200d frontier router.
in qos main page. set main traffic to 2.

in rules set.
change rule 1 from 46 to 26
(this only makes some intensive games not hog the internet)
 

for safe messure go back to main qos page click apply.

also make sure frameboost/burst is active in wireless advance settings.
and. instead of using wireless-N lower it to wireless-G (do not mess with the data rates advanced)

(wireless-B is an old technology with known latency issues with handling packets-but still works fine)